Conquest Feedback and Upcoming Changes

[Lhancelot]

Nobody thinks it's better, except people employed by Bioware. NOBODY!

 

Olag, Masterceil; what about this fairly popular belief? ^

 

Honestly, I want to know what you both think. Do you enjoy the new conquest system now? What do you like best about it? What do you dislike most about it?

 

You both are really the only two that seem to defend the new system.

 

I am just curious, since we have no interaction with the ones that have created the new system I am left to question the two sole supporters of the new system, at least the only two that are vocal about defending it.

[KendraP]

Olag, Masterceil; what about this fairly popular belief? ^

 

Honestly, I want to know what you both think. Do you enjoy the new conquest system now? What do you like best about it? What do you dislike most about it?

 

You both are really the only two that seem to defend the new system.

 

I am just curious, since we have no interaction with the ones that have created the new system I am left to question the two sole supporters of the new system, at least the only two that are vocal about defending it.

 

I would hazard a guess that the people who like it are suddenly getting conquest for stuff they do anyway, while those of us who don't had the points for what we do totally gutted.

 

Thats why i say appease both parties, keep the new objectives and add in the old and up the value for the repeatable content.

[masterceil]

Olag, Masterceil; what about this fairly popular belief? ^

 

Honestly, I want to know what you both think. Do you enjoy the new conquest system now?

 

I like the new system, overall. It needs some dials to be twisted a bit here and there, but on the whole, I think the system itself is indeed an improvement to what we had before.

 

What do you like best about it?

 

When there are new objectives (e.g. GSI, Gree, Rakghoul), I think that's just pretty neat. I got bored of Old Conquest after about a year and a half, because it was just the same old thing every week - GF FPs, GF Ops, Heroics, PvP, and occasionally World Bosses or Commanders. Objectives were fairly diverse every week, but it was same ole same ole. I'd stopped participating entirely about seven months ago. Now, like I said, there is actually new stuff to do in several events. That helped freshen things up, and as a result, I've participated every week since 5.8 dropped.

 

I also like the new interface. It's not perfect, but with the polishing that's coming to it in 5.9, I think it'll be closer. I like the consistency in the repeatability icons with the other mission icons elsewhere in the game. I don't agree with all the decisions BioWare has made in categorising their objective by repeatability (e.g. Heroics, Weeklies), but I like the flexibility in having Daily added to the system. I also like feeding the fires of competition in my guild by pointing to the Top 5 list (which is easier to point out to members than setting a column in Guild window to show Conquest points and sorting that).

 

The best thing about New Conquest, I think, is the fact that guilds need to cross a minimum threshold to collect rewards, rather than vie for a spot on the board. That's another thing that nudged me into competing again - I just gotta help my guild get 200k points to earn some rewards, rather than bust my tail for 750 points only to get knocked off the board Monday morning and get nothing for my efforts.

 

What do you dislike most about it?

 

I've already touched on a couple of examples above. I think Heroics and Weeklies should be infinitely Repeatable, or let the former stay one a day (to balance, say, Hoth and Ilum) but set the point award to max value for a Daily (it's currently the lowest value).

 

Also, while they've given us some awesome new objectives in a few of the Conquest events, there have been two weeks now where they were far more limiting. I think I've mentioned it in this thread, but Flashpoint Havoc and Emergency Operations are very narrowly targeted, and should be expanded upon. The former should give points for SM/VM FPs, period, and the latter should include all Ops, including Mono and Fury. In addition, there ought be non-MM FP/Ops viable ways of gaining points, such as the invaded planets' Heroics, Weekly, Rampage, and Slayer objectives - all of them, for each of the three planets.

 

Also on that note, I don't like that it's only three planets every week. I like even less than each of the planets seems to be assigned to a certain size yield - this week's Large Yield target will never be a Small Yield, so even if BioWare is successful in enticing more Medium and Large guilds to invade an appropriately-sized target, Small guilds will never have a shot at the title. I've said in the past that Small guilds shouldn't be able to compete against Large guilds when it comes to taking a planet, and I still hold to that - but Small guilds should have a shot at competing with other Small guilds to take a planet.

 

As an aside, I appreciate the sincerity in how you asked these questions. These threads could use more cordial conversation, and less slinging of mud.

[masterceil]

I would hazard a guess that the people who like it are suddenly getting conquest for stuff they do anyway, while those of us who don't had the points for what we do totally gutted.

 

Thats why i say appease both parties, keep the new objectives and add in the old and up the value for the repeatable content.

 

Nope. I haven't done Rakghoul stuff in a long time, but I did it last week, having fun with my guild in a Conquest-oriented event. I also hadn't done MM FPs in a long time (or FPs in general - they tend to bore me), and did a half dozen or so of them a couple of weeks ago, just for Conquest.

 

Mostly, I'd been just logging into the game anymore to run Operations, and occasionally some GSF. Other than that, I logged in twice a week for my guild's events on Tuesdays and Thursdays (a couple of OWPvE things), and that was it. I'm certainly not getting my 25-50k Conquest Points each week since 5.8 just doing Ops, GSF, World Bosses or Commanders. I am legitimately going out of my way to get points, because it's fun for me again.

[KendraP]

Nope. I haven't done Rakghoul stuff in a long time, but I did it last week, having fun with my guild in a Conquest-oriented event. I also hadn't done MM FPs in a long time (or FPs in general - they tend to bore me), and did a half dozen or so of them a couple of weeks ago, just for Conquest.

 

Mostly, I'd been just logging into the game anymore to run Operations, and occasionally some GSF. Other than that, I logged in twice a week for my guild's events on Tuesdays and Thursdays (a couple of OWPvE things), and that was it. I'm certainly not getting my 25-50k Conquest Points each week since 5.8 just doing Ops, GSF, World Bosses or Commanders. I am legitimately going out of my way to get points, because it's fun for me again.

 

So you enjoy being told what you should be doing?

I participated in rakghoul week more than i ever have too. I still hate rakghoul week. And my efforts to force it on people mean I now have less people hopping in discord to come play with us. Again, i think they should combine the event based activities with the others from before so that we can all be happy.

[olagatonjedi]

So you enjoy being told what you should be doing?

I participated in rakghoul week more than i ever have too. I still hate rakghoul week. And my efforts to force it on people mean I now have less people hopping in discord to come play with us. Again, i think they should combine the event based activities with the others from before so that we can all be happy.

What you dont seem to understand is that some people, many people actually appreciate being given direction, and conquest provides that. I, and many buddies of mine IRL, can never decide where to eat out if given the decision-making power, amd will defer to the wifey because we appreciate the direction they give. On other topics, we can certainly make the decision. But its a willingness to defer and ask for input from someone else, or in terms of the conquest, ask for help what to do in game this week. Personally, i dont like being told what to do in game, amd usually create a plan for my activities on each time i log in, but i can certainly understand that there are many people who log in because swtor is fun for them, but they just dont enjoy having to plan out their adventures themselves.

[masterceil]

So you enjoy being told what you should be doing?

I participated in rakghoul week more than i ever have too. I still hate rakghoul week. And my efforts to force it on people mean I now have less people hopping in discord to come play with us. Again, i think they should combine the event based activities with the others from before so that we can all be happy.

 

I don't mind gentle nudges to engage in other content that I don't normally do. BioWare isn't holding a gun to my head, and they're not even asking me to jump off a bridge. Yes, I'm willing to do things I normally wouldn't do of my own accord, and I had a blast with my guildies doing it. It's really not as bad as your flagrantly hostile tone implies.

 

That my guildies actually enjoy non-PvP content helped. Trying to "force" Conquest on your guild is your own fault - not BioWare's. My guild encourages participating in Conquest, and we do reward participation. But we don't even really ask our guildies to participate (the typical reminders are just Monday when we give our Top 3 their special ranks, and on Tuesday when an officer mentions Conquest in her weekly guild news reports). We certainly don't try to "force" them. If your guildies are rolling their eyes and interacting with you less because of demands that you're placing on them because you want to participate in Conquest, that's your fault.

[KendraP]

I don't mind gentle nudges to engage in other content that I don't normally do. BioWare isn't holding a gun to my head, and they're not even asking me to jump off a bridge. Yes, I'm willing to do things I normally wouldn't do of my own accord, and I had a blast with my guildies doing it. It's really not as bad as your flagrantly hostile tone implies.

 

That my guildies actually enjoy non-PvP content helped. Trying to "force" Conquest on your guild is your own fault - not BioWare's. My guild encourages participating in Conquest, and we do reward participation. But we don't even really ask our guildies to participate (the typical reminders are just Monday when we give our Top 3 their special ranks, and on Tuesday when an officer mentions Conquest in her weekly guild news reports). We certainly don't try to "force" them. If your guildies are rolling their eyes and interacting with you less because of demands that you're placing on them because you want to participate in Conquest, that's your fault.

 

I place no demands on anyone and never will. Im also the guild leader and main tank. So while im off galvanting in the ralghoul tunnels while they're pvping without a tank, they see me as the problem.

 

I just think we should all be able to complete our conquest in our own way. Currently its do what they want you to, or don't do conquest. Im doing it, but neither or nor the guild like it.

[masterceil]

I place no demands on anyone and never will. Im also the guild leader and main tank. So while im off galvanting in the ralghoul tunnels while they're pvping without a tank, they see me as the problem.

 

I just think we should all be able to complete our conquest in our own way. Currently its do what they want you to, or don't do conquest. Im doing it, but neither or nor the guild like it.

 

It's your decision to prioritise Conquest over PvP. Simple as that. If you don't like Conquest, don't do it. There are other ways to build out a ship, if you feel that it's really necessary to do that in the first place.

[Elliraen]

This crap about making a plan to play a specific character is just that. Crap. I have 42 characters. None of which I consider a main. If I want to conquest with just one or two, then those other 40 should be free to do anything in game without affecting the one(s) I happen to be conquesting with.

 

If I feel like doing heroics, or dailies, or flashpoints, or whatever, I shouldn't have to pick and choose what character to do it with. That's entirely too much micro-management from a game designed for alts.

[PorsaLindahl]

This crap about making a plan to play a specific character is just that. Crap. I have 42 characters. None of which I consider a main. If I want to conquest with just one or two, then those other 40 should be free to do anything in game without affecting the one(s) I happen to be conquesting with.

 

If I feel like doing heroics, or dailies, or flashpoints, or whatever, I shouldn't have to pick and choose what character to do it with. That's entirely too much micro-management from a game designed for alts.

 

I couldn't agree more. While I don't have as many characters, I feel the same way.

 

And btw, I love how you've been handling a certain individual for the last few days. I've been gone for a week and it seems I missed quite a bit of fun. Kudos to you.

[KendraP]

It's your decision to prioritise Conquest over PvP. Simple as that. If you don't like Conquest, don't do it. There are other ways to build out a ship, if you feel that it's really necessary to do that in the first place.

 

The bosses you keep bringing up in this debate are too unpredictable to be reliable. I have barely 50 million across my account so im not going to be buying it.

 

Why would merging the two ideas be bad? Keep the best of both and make everyone happy. I get what I want, you get what you want. Win-win.

[Elliraen]

I couldn't agree more. While I don't have as many characters, I feel the same way.

 

And btw, I love how you've been handling a certain individual for the last few days. I've been gone for a week and it seems I missed quite a bit of fun. Kudos to you.

 

Thanks. After I'm gone, you're one of the very few I'm going to miss around here.

[PorsaLindahl]

Thanks. After I'm gone, you're one of the very few I'm going to miss around here.

 

Hope you find something that provides you some entertainment value. I saw you mentioned GW and GW2 before. Good luck.

[Elliraen]

Hope you find something that provides you some entertainment value. I saw you mentioned GW and GW2 before. Good luck.

 

Thanks. Yeah, I went with GW2. Started to do some grinding in GW, but decided it was too much trouble. Now I need to get to work on those mounts.

 

I suppose we should let the thread get back to it's usual arguing, though. This sentimental stuff just doesn't seem to fit too well.

[PorsaLindahl]

Thanks. Yeah, I went with GW2. Started to do some grinding in GW, but decided it was too much trouble. Now I need to get to work on those mounts.

 

I suppose we should let the thread get back to it's usual arguing, though. This sentimental stuff just doesn't seem to fit too well.

 

You're right. Too many niceties may be contagious and we can't have that.

[Rheshalea]

Thanks. Yeah, I went with GW2. Started to do some grinding in GW, but decided it was too much trouble. Now I need to get to work on those mounts.

 

I suppose we should let the thread get back to it's usual arguing, though. This sentimental stuff just doesn't seem to fit too well.

 

Heh.

I completely forgot -- yes, FORGOT -- to log in to SWTOR yesterday to check this week's Conquest because I was busy HAVING FUN in GW2.

 

I guess I'm not going to keep paying for SWTOR until there's enough proper, enjoyable, new content again. Or I run out of things to do in GW2, which will probably take years.

[redeng]

I really dont think this is good enough.

i only can play a few days a week and ever since they screwed up conquest i have only achieved it once

[DarthSpuds]

Heh.

I completely forgot -- yes, FORGOT -- to log in to SWTOR yesterday to check this week's Conquest because I was busy HAVING FUN in GW2.

 

I guess I'm not going to keep paying for SWTOR until there's enough proper, enjoyable, new content again. Or I run out of things to do in GW2, which will probably take years.

 

The last couple of weeks I've tried to get back into LOTRO. Since Sunday I have managed it big time, dusted off an old mothballed toon and I am having a riot of fun getting through Mordor and onto Mirkwood with it. Some of the landscape content is damned challenging if you've been out of the gearing-up treadmill for a while (and I have), but almost all of the questing is tied into the main story arc, there's the Anniversary event running to get some nice cosmetics, they've made Housing Hooks a lot more like SWTOR hooks.

 

All in all I really have not noticed that I simply haven't logged into SWTOR in almost 12 days; and even more alarming I am not missing SWTOR because the type of content I most enjoy - story centric landscape and solo-friendly content has been almost entirely lacking from SWTOR for a year, but LOTRO has many, many, many hours of it in every expansion.

 

All The Best

[JattaGin]

It looks like I will make it to 15k this week. But I only do this chore, because my guild conquers one of the last 2 planets I still need to conquer. Otherwise there would be ZERO point in doing what I'm doing.

 

As I have work from Tuesday to Saturday, early morning to late evening and on Sunday I will most likely not be able to get out of bed, I neither have the time nor the power to do operations. For example, I can play in the morning before work, like at 8 my time which is 6 or so in the UK. No one is doing an OP at that time and I would probably not be able to finish it anyway. That means, it's very difficult for me to get 15k points.

 

I tried to get into a group for the Belsavis world boss, but at the times I was online so far this week, there was nothing happening and my guild had already set up various groups on Tuesday when I was still at work.

 

So, here is what I do to get to 15k:

 

-crafting one Invasion Force per day

-rampaging on Yavin IV once per day while I wait for the craft to be done

-the rest comes by crafting war supplies (for a measly 213 points per craft)

 

If I haven't miscalculated, I will have 15k on Sunday (in case I manage to get online on Sunday, if not I will have to force myself to get up earlier on Monday just so that I can craft one last Invasion Force (takes 60 minutes).

 

So yes, mission accomplished, BW: I played Conquest every day this week in comparision to the usual 1 to 2 Conquest days per week in the old system.

 

But unless 5.9 brings HUGE improvements to the system, I will play Conquest every day just one more time: when my guild conquers the last planet I need for the achievements. After that, I'm out of Conquest.

 

In general I agree with what masterceil wrote: The theory of the new system is actually not bad. It's just, as so often with Swtor, extremely terribly executed; in such a way that I cannot believe that whoever came up with these numbers has ever played this game. Remember the original thresholds? Apply them to the last weeks and you will see that barely anyone managed to achieve those numbers. How could they have not seen this coming?

 

I'm not confident about 5.9. Keith, the lead producer of this game, replied with "I believe the changes in 5.9 help address that issue (...)". He believes. Eric used similar words in his posts about conquest. How come they have to believe or assume? Do they not know what they did and are doing? If Keith only believes, but doesn't know, who DOES know? There must be someone. Or not?

 

I'm not overly trusting a producer who "believes" something. I'd rather have one who "knows" what his update will bring. After all, isn't he playing on a daily basis with various alts at command rank 300? Am I the only one who, by now, believes that he has never actually played this game? It would explain a lot of what happened during the last 12 months: Theoretically good ideas gone bad. Again, the new conquest system does seem interesting in theory. That they not even remotely got it right nonetheless in the first place can only mean that they don't know their game.

 

TL;DR: MY SUGGESTION (as I mentioned several times before): Connect the ACTIVITIES window to the conquest system! It's what I actually expected to happen. Same design idea, probably same backend system. I was sure that it would get connected from the get-go. Activities --> Command System --> Conquest = everything tied together. How did no one at BW make that simple connection?

[TrixxieTriss]

The last couple of weeks I've tried to get back into LOTRO. Since Sunday I have managed it big time, dusted off an old mothballed toon and I am having a riot of fun getting through Mordor and onto Mirkwood with it. Some of the landscape content is damned challenging if you've been out of the gearing-up treadmill for a while (and I have), but almost all of the questing is tied into the main story arc, there's the Anniversary event running to get some nice cosmetics, they've made Housing Hooks a lot more like SWTOR hooks.

 

All in all I really have not noticed that I simply haven't logged into SWTOR in almost 12 days; and even more alarming I am not missing SWTOR because the type of content I most enjoy - story centric landscape and solo-friendly content has been almost entirely lacking from SWTOR for a year, but LOTRO has many, many, many hours of it in every expansion.

 

All The Best

 

Is LOTRO free to,play?

[TrixxieTriss]

Thanks. Yeah, I went with GW2. Started to do some grinding in GW, but decided it was too much trouble. Now I need to get to work on those mounts.

 

I suppose we should let the thread get back to it's usual arguing, though. This sentimental stuff just doesn't seem to fit too well.

 

Wait till you get your Dino mount :

My wife and I spent half a day just running around on them trying to see how far we could jump, what buildings we could jump between, what short cuts we could find by jumping on things and how far we could slide. We climbed mountains and went to places that would never have been explorable before. Which means the Devs either coded everything properly at the start to make it accessible in the future or had to do all of that in the last expansion before they released the mounts. Either would have cost a fair bit of time and resources to do.

The mounts (Dino) are like nothing I’ve ever experienced in an MMO before. They leave swtor and WoW mounts for dead and make them look like child’s toys.

Honestly, the mounts system in GW2 is the best I’ve ever seen.

If others are reading this and never tried GW2, you really should go try it, just so you can test out the mounts

[Elliraen]

Is LOTRO free to,play?

 

It is, but I believe you have to make the initial purchase and purchase the expansions. Also their F2P model, last I looked wasn't that great. It's been more than a few years, so it may have changed.

 

Wait till you get your Dino mount :

My wife and I spent half a day just running around on them trying to see how far we could jump, what buildings we could jump between, what short cuts we could find by jumping on things and how far we could slide. We climbed mountains and went to places that would never have been explorable before. Which means the Devs either coded everything properly at the start to make it accessible in the future or had to do all of that in the last expansion before they released the mounts. Either would have cost a fair bit of time and resources to do.

The mounts (Dino) are like nothing I’ve ever experienced in an MMO before. They leave swtor and WoW mounts for dead and make them look like child’s toys.

Honestly, the mounts system in GW2 is the best I’ve ever seen.

If others are reading this and never tried GW2, you really should go try it, just so you can test out the mounts

 

I'll keep that in mind.

[Lhancelot]

I like the new system, overall. It needs some dials to be twisted a bit here and there, but on the whole, I think the system itself is indeed an improvement to what we had before.

 

 

 

When there are new objectives (e.g. GSI, Gree, Rakghoul), I think that's just pretty neat. I got bored of Old Conquest after about a year and a half, because it was just the same old thing every week - GF FPs, GF Ops, Heroics, PvP, and occasionally World Bosses or Commanders. Objectives were fairly diverse every week, but it was same ole same ole. I'd stopped participating entirely about seven months ago. Now, like I said, there is actually new stuff to do in several events. That helped freshen things up, and as a result, I've participated every week since 5.8 dropped.

 

I also like the new interface. It's not perfect, but with the polishing that's coming to it in 5.9, I think it'll be closer. I like the consistency in the repeatability icons with the other mission icons elsewhere in the game. I don't agree with all the decisions BioWare has made in categorising their objective by repeatability (e.g. Heroics, Weeklies), but I like the flexibility in having Daily added to the system. I also like feeding the fires of competition in my guild by pointing to the Top 5 list (which is easier to point out to members than setting a column in Guild window to show Conquest points and sorting that).

 

The best thing about New Conquest, I think, is the fact that guilds need to cross a minimum threshold to collect rewards, rather than vie for a spot on the board. That's another thing that nudged me into competing again - I just gotta help my guild get 200k points to earn some rewards, rather than bust my tail for 750 points only to get knocked off the board Monday morning and get nothing for my efforts.

 

 

 

I've already touched on a couple of examples above. I think Heroics and Weeklies should be infinitely Repeatable, or let the former stay one a day (to balance, say, Hoth and Ilum) but set the point award to max value for a Daily (it's currently the lowest value).

 

Also, while they've given us some awesome new objectives in a few of the Conquest events, there have been two weeks now where they were far more limiting. I think I've mentioned it in this thread, but Flashpoint Havoc and Emergency Operations are very narrowly targeted, and should be expanded upon. The former should give points for SM/VM FPs, period, and the latter should include all Ops, including Mono and Fury. In addition, there ought be non-MM FP/Ops viable ways of gaining points, such as the invaded planets' Heroics, Weekly, Rampage, and Slayer objectives - all of them, for each of the three planets.

 

Also on that note, I don't like that it's only three planets every week. I like even less than each of the planets seems to be assigned to a certain size yield - this week's Large Yield target will never be a Small Yield, so even if BioWare is successful in enticing more Medium and Large guilds to invade an appropriately-sized target, Small guilds will never have a shot at the title. I've said in the past that Small guilds shouldn't be able to compete against Large guilds when it comes to taking a planet, and I still hold to that - but Small guilds should have a shot at competing with other Small guilds to take a planet.

 

As an aside, I appreciate the sincerity in how you asked these questions. These threads could use more cordial conversation, and less slinging of mud.

 

Hey np regarding tone of writing to you, I am trying to be objective even though I have a hard time seeing how the new system is going to attract people to participate, and i feel bad for those who truly are upset with the changes.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. I think you take the stance you do because you genuinely believe the things you say and what you explained makes sense to me. You point out the things you like and show you can be objective by adding criticisms too.

 

I would imagine Keith taking a good look at what you wrote regarding things you think would improve conquest at this point. You write with logic and sense plus you seem to understand the intentions of these changes as well as what needs to be done to make it better all the while following the design they are looking to achieve.

 

Maybe you ought to map out a short-to-the-point post with the changes you feel should happen. I think they are reading stuff here, Keith responding to this thread shows that. Better yet, perhaps create a new thread with your proposed ideas to improve the present system of conquest. That might get more conversations going on how to improve the present system, instead of our lively debates as to why they did the changes, how bad the changes are, etc. that are going on in this thread.

[peter_plankskull]

Is LOTRO free to,play?

 

Up to 50, after that you need to get expansions to progress. Keep in mind, LOTRO often requires a group to progress, and while it's f2p model is still a bit iffy, it's infinitely better than swtor.