Conquest Feedback and Upcoming Changes

[Ibokagain]

Hey folks,

 

Quick update. I already highlighted the changes coming tomorrow in 5.8a but I wanted to let you know that we are still actively discussing future changes to Conquests which will come out in 5.9. I am hoping to have a list of those changes before the end of the week, I will pass on info as I have it.

 

Thank you for your continued feedback.

 

-eric

 

Cool while you guys are discussing it, I'll be playing another game.

 

Cheers.

[Constantious]

The only hope some of us smaller guilds had was during crafting week. we would bust our Butts for weeks gathering matts and crafting the assembly components, now that they have completely changed war supplies to the requiring the assembly components they now do is totally ridiculous. they have changed what was difficult enough for a small guild with a few hardcore crafter's to nearly impossible with the amount of crap that's now required. crafting is no longer just part of the game now its a full time Job. And i'm not even beginning to elaborate on the the overall point value of crafting war supplies. I have been a part of this game since beta. and I am so extremely frustrated. I mean come on we all know that Conquest needed an overhaul but the crafting aspect did not !!

 

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Maatsplume]

I'd like the FP Weeklys to be returned to Conquest and heroics.

ALso it would be nice if the non repeatable objectives were only non-repeatable per char, not for the entire legacy.

I could barely get one char through and didn't bother trying to do anymore as it wasn't any fun.

[BASICELE]

My guild has always been very active in conquest. We have a blast running lockouts, FPs, PVP and everyone crafted. Then the changes came. Everyone was...well, pissed. PvPers felt left out, and crafters have all but stopped crafting.

I have finished all my weeklies, gree, iokath, searching for allies, vet and MM FPs, SM uprisings and 2 ops. I crafted war supplies and 'donated' them. All that, normally, would get me a bit above my goal. However, it only got me to 13k.

I wanted to craft more, but the amounts of mats required now is...well, insane. Since conquest was introduced, I only held onto grade 7 and above mats (so i was able to have room in legacy cargo) but now i need grade 2-10 mats just to make a single supply. I, like many others in my guild, are done with conquest.

And thats sad. We all had a blast. It gave us a gameplan for the week and gave incentive to have new players be active in the guild.

Now there is very little reason for crafters to farm and produce. PvPers are now 'one-and-done' rather than running several. FP runners dont want to do more than whats required for weekly because it isnt worth it.

I would say revert back, but we all know Bw doesnt know how to...or want to. My best hope is something new comes along soon that will encourage guildies to be active with each other. Until then, we can bribe guildies with credits and CM items for doing certain activities..

 

This is exact what is going on in all guilds:( when i heard future changes were coming, i thought yes,NEW OBJECTIVES ADDING on for all toons per day!!!! There was nothing wrong on old missions for to change!!! this is just killing moore whole game!!

[TheBeerDude]

Hi,

Hope I can still add my 2 cents:

Any chance you can someday add additional quests such as star fortresses, eternal challenge or dvl world bosses? Something to change it up a bit.

 

Also, can you put back in completing the uprising weeklies?

 

Thanks

[PennyAnn]

Keep feedback coming? It feels like you guys aren't listening to the massive amounts of truly constructive feedback we've already given you, so when you ask for continued feedback it starts to feel like we're talking to a brick wall.

 

Here we go again, though.

 

• Per Legacy Objectives - No further "monitoring" is necessary here. When you force us to be unable to use our Alts, then it means more characters are forced away from conquest. When I can't even repeat a single objective once on Imperial and once on Republic in my legacy, this just means I will absolutely be playing this game LESS. You do not want to encourage people to play this game less. There are more elegant ways to solve the Operations lockout spam, if that's what you're getting at here. This is an inelegant solution that will see people playing the game LESS and looking for other games to fill the time that you've just taken away from all of us and our Alts in effort to fix one small problem that really isn't as big a problem as you are making it. Try again. Remove per Legacy Lockouts from ALL Conquest objectives.
   
   
  
• Point Values are Way Off - You said you were "readjusting" these, removing planetary bonuses, etc. and the combination means that you guys have made it five or six times as difficult to complete conquest on a single character. This is not an estimate, this is based on very detailed posts with calculations in them posted in this thread and the original one that is now locked. Lots of fantastic posts with really good math have been put in these threads. They detail math that you guys should have done. You cannot require people to play this game 6 hours per day for 6 days on a single character to complete a conquest. No one is going to do that. Once the stockpiles of Invasion Forces (the only truly repeatable thing about conquest right now) are gone - you will see participation in conquest plummet even more and it will be too late to fix it, as those who had no reason to log into your game have moved on. Fix it NOW, not in 5.9... a month away. That's just too far down the road.
   
   
  
• Crafting - Again, this is another area that you do not need to monitor further. Lots of fantastic posts in this thread and the other (now locked) thread that explain the amount of effort that goes into collecting materials, the cost of white crafting mats bought from either vendor or through missions, and the work that goes into any crafting - conquest included. Compared to spamming warzones, operations, or any other "free" activity - it was already pretty equitable in that you paid credits for the convenience of crafting offline, and the amount of time/preparation to craft was enough to make the activities somewhat balanced. Not now though. In no world is what you've changed about crafting worth even doing. Please do not use Invasion Force disintegration to calculate ANYTHING with regard to crafting changes being successful/unsuccessful as you "monitor" this situation. They were utterly worthless before this patch, and as such there are massive stockpiles of them in the game (if they weren't vendored). A 9,999 stack of them vendors for 9,999,000 credits (almost 10 million). I myself have vendored 4 such stacks in the last few months with crafting weeks being so heavily featured on the schedule. Invasion Force consumption should not be used to measure anything at this time. The cost of creating any of the war supplies if you start from scratch, the amount of time/farming/preparation/companion leveling is what you should be considering. And the changes you have made are too harsh and will see no one crafting at all because it is simply far too expensive for the tiny amount of points it gives you for the mammoth effort.
   
   
  
• Weekly Quests Removed - It is nice that you guys heard us on the PvP/GSF participation, but you also removed points for completing the weekly. It's like you guys have forgotten how people play the game. You don't do a single warzone on a single character and then log off. Even the daily mission is 4 matches. You are affecting the Queue times for GSF and PvP pretty drastically by removing these items from conquest, especially for low level players (which I will discuss more in the next point). The very reason these were included in Conquest in the first place was to encourage more participation. Limiting how many times per day you can earn points for this just limits how many times people will actually do them. Again, giving no reason to play the game MORE, and every reason to play the game LESS. It's moving in the wrong direction. Re-add the weekly mission completion for a decent amount of points for GSF, PvP, Flashpoints, and honestly anything else that has a weekly mission. And do not limit those to once per legacy - because that precludes us from even being able to do it once on each faction.
   
   
  
• Low Level Players Locked Out - Removing many of the PvP objectives and obliterating crafting the way you guys have (requiring high level crafting components to craft ANYTHING that is Conquest related) means that if you do not have your crafting at near the top tiers, you cannot craft at all. Then you remove most of the PvP and GSF points from conquest and they are locked out yet again. There are no Heroics even, and there should really be lots more Heroics included. It's like you forgot that not everyone is level 70 who wants to participate in conquest and help their guild earn points.
   
   
  
• Add More Activities, Not Less - Anything in the Activities window should give you points toward conquest. Everyone who got excited about conquest changes was looking forward to the "new objectives" you were adding. I don't think any of us imagined that you'd take away so many previously available objectives and replace them with a single new item - destroying crafted materials for points.
   
   
  
• Problems with the UI - There was no mention in the patch notes for 5.8a about reworking the UI. I hope this is still something you are going to do because the scrolling list is harder to follow than the table of icons we got previously. The "what is repeatable and what is not" is confusing, the symbols seem to stand for various things with little differentiation (partially due to bugs, which I will talk about next), and it's hard to know the intention for any of it. You don't use a lot of the screen real estate to describe the objectives on the right side and could easily add information like: how often you can repeat the objective, is it completed for all characters in your legacy for that day, or just the character you are viewing? Some detailed instructions for new objectives would be very helpful too (very few people understood what you meant by "donate war supplies to the effort" = right click and destroy).
   
   
  
• So Many Bugs! - Part of the confusion with the new UI was the fact that objectives did not complete evenly, reliably, or as advertised. Some items could only be repeated once per legacy per day, others seemed to reward points to several of your characters (if you were lucky), or none at all. Yet these items were marked with the same blue/silver triangle indicating they should reward the same way, but they didn't at all. For the "Rampage" objectives, these would reset in the middle of the day for people, but not necessarily the same time for everyone. If you hadn't completed your 250 kills, you might only have 200 for the day and if you logged out then logged back in, it was reset to 0. Wouldn't this be better if it reset only AFTER you reach the kill count? In this way your effort even from one day to another could carry over. But it's hard to know that this isn't just a bug and shouldn't be repeatable at all, because little to no information is given about the intent of the objective.
  

 

 

There is so much to be fixed in order to make Conquest something that people WANT to do, and to give people reasons to play MORE instead of LESS. It is also my feeling that if you wait for another month for 5.9 to make further changes, you will be waiting too long. Some changes will require monitoring of the new system, fine. But the ones I have listed I believe are critical enough that if you spend any more time monitoring them, you will lose players interest in Conquest entirely, and perhaps the game as a whole.

 

Do not delay anything so critical to the Conquest system until 5.9. Please give us 5.8b, 5.8c, 5.8d... or however many patches it takes to improve the areas I've listed above and others that have been posted in the multitude of feedback in several threads regarding Conquest. Please.

 

.

Edited March 27, 2018 by PennyAnn

[KristoKal]

I am part of small guild and love(d) conquest, was big part of my gaming experience to score as mutch as possible, You talked, you make it easyer for smaller guilds...Really cant see how??!! Well, I am agree with all points others are talked, crafting week´s was showtime for smaller guilds, also last boss lockouts. You think you mad e it harder for big guild to use last boss farm...well, no. Big guild`s have lot of different legacys, last boss runs do not score as mutch as before, since same legacy cant score, but taking new legacys for every run, it stil working tactic, in small guild otherhand, where you had 8 people online, and you farmed last boss, lets say 4 timeswith alts, now its 1 time, how this is easyer for smaller guilds. Old system was fine and fun. I didnt mind that big guilds rule, ofc they do and that is normal. Smaller guild just wait, look where big ones go and not go there Now, small guild have hard to achive even smallest tier, and there are million scorers ahead anyway, so, what´s a point?

[kinnybrit]

Hey folks,

 

Quick update. I already highlighted the changes coming tomorrow in 5.8a but I wanted to let you know that we are still actively discussing future changes to Conquests which will come out in 5.9. I am hoping to have a list of those changes before the end of the week, I will pass on info as I have it.

 

Thank you for your continued feedback.

 

-eric

 

 

I Unsubbed - You and your team should be fired.

 

Once per legacy is a ridiculous penalty put on the gamer. A GM of a small guild used to be able to get plenty of conquest with their alts, now they are reliant on the few members they have to maybe cap 1 or 2 characters, if they try. Stop 'fixing' what is not broken. You should seek to add, rather than take away, incentive to play this game. Add content and fix bugs - Write that down until it sinks in, please.

[DarthSpuds]

Hey folks,

 

Quick update. I already highlighted the changes coming tomorrow in 5.8a but I wanted to let you know that we are still actively discussing future changes to Conquests which will come out in 5.9. I am hoping to have a list of those changes before the end of the week, I will pass on info as I have it.

 

Thank you for your continued feedback.

 

-eric

 

Unless the "once per day per legacy" crap is fixed in 5.8a 5.9 will be "too little, too late" for a lot of players, and probably the game.

 

Well done Bioware - you've taken an IP that with even semi-competent Devs would be a license to print money and caused it to tank so badly that in just 7 years it has gone from over 200 Servers to just 5.

 

All The Best

[DarthSpuds]

That's almost as bad as "RNG is exciting"...almost...

 

This is, without doubt, Keith's "RNG is exciting" moment, and unfortunately the ONLY hope this game has is that it leads to the same outcome that Ben's "RNG is exciting" moment led to - the Lead Producer being replaced.

 

All The Best

[Morteistno]

Hey folks,

 

Quick update. I already highlighted the changes coming tomorrow in 5.8a but I wanted to let you know that we are still actively discussing future changes to Conquests which will come out in 5.9. I am hoping to have a list of those changes before the end of the week, I will pass on info as I have it.

 

Thank you for your continued feedback.

 

-eric

 

Hi Eric,

 

Can you please tell us what the discussion is about, as based on the goals we heard from the team there should not be much to discuss. Ie the main goal as we understood it was to give smaller guilds and more people an opportunity to get the rewards.

 

How this can ever be compatible with much more effort needed than before to reach the personal target on a single let alone multiple characters is completely beyond me and everyone it seems.

 

Hence my feeling and I guess that of most people that your stated goal is not the true goal. We may not like the true goal but if it were clearly stated at least it would make your actions more believable. Right now there is an overwhelming feeling that the dev team is being untruthful and not listening to the players at all.

 

We also think that removing some of the legacy locks or changing objective scores is very easy to do. If we are wrong there and this takes more time/effort at the very least the message that yes this will be changed but takes x time would help restore some confidence.

 

We will see after the patch but the feeling I have right now is that the reinstatement of PvP or FPs in the objectives will be done similar to gsf. Ie with a low repeatability and very low objective score value making them at best something that will be complimentary to whatever other objectives there are rather than as they used to be perfectly feasible avenues to cap conquest on multiple characters.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Morteistno

[ShadowGovernator]

Hey folks,

 

Quick update. We are not even trying to put down the dumpster fire we just created.

We want to monitor that dumpster fire some more for no reason at all.

 

Dumpster fire fumes are very toxic - as a result our players will kick the bucket.

 

No one at BioHazard is going near that toxic dumpster fire conquest mess - especially Chief sanitation worker Keith - on any of his 12 command rank 300 alts.

 

- Thanks everyone!

[kinnybrit]

Hey folks,

 

Quick update. I already highlighted the changes coming tomorrow in 5.8a but I wanted to let you know that we are still actively discussing future changes to Conquests which will come out in 5.9. I am hoping to have a list of those changes before the end of the week, I will pass on info as I have it.

 

Thank you for your continued feedback.

 

-eric

 

I wonder how many subs you lost other than mine because you refused to patch it sooner.

[ShadowGovernator]

This is, without doubt, Keith's "RNG is exciting" moment, and unfortunately the ONLY hope this game has is that it leads to the same outcome that Ben's "RNG is exciting" moment led to - the Lead Producer being replaced.

 

Unless Keith plays his "get out of jail" free-card:

His father came to visit during all this debacle.

[PorsaLindahl]

Keep feedback coming? It feels like you guys aren't listening to the massive amounts of truly constructive feedback we've already given you, so when you ask for continued feedback it starts to feel like we're talking to a brick wall.

 

75 pages in the original "official" thread. 57 pages in this thread. 132 pages of rants, rages, suggestions and a very, very small smattering of "it's okay" from less than a handful of individuals.

 

Don't ask for something then turn a deaf ear / blind eye to the responses.

 

Post maintenance will see my final decision on this crap, but I can already sense that my sub will remain in a cancelled status because of the legacy restrictions. I'm not some 5 year old child that you can placate with vague statements that things will be fixed.

Edited March 27, 2018 by PorsaLindahl

[ThadiusMoor]

Hmmm... 833 posts on one thread + 567 posts on a second thread...

 

The vast majority...

 

Criticisms of the new system, and many detailing how this system is literal trash.

 

Has anything changed?

 

Nope...

 

'<sarcasm>

 

But hey, they are going to make the Cartel Market even better and sell even more stuff.

 

How exciting, right?

 

'</sarcasm>

Edited March 27, 2018 by ThadiusMoor

[Gelious]

Hey folks,

 

Quick update. I already highlighted the changes coming tomorrow in 5.8a but I wanted to let you know that we are still actively discussing future changes to Conquests which will come out in 5.9. I am hoping to have a list of those changes before the end of the week, I will pass on info as I have it.

 

Thank you for your continued feedback.

 

-eric

 

So basically what you are saying we are stuck with the new crappy system for the whole month - all the way to 1th of May. Unless your changes on Tuesday will make it much-much better (which I honestly doubt).

 

Wonderful.

[PorsaLindahl]

So basically what you are saying we are stuck with the new crappy system for the whole month - all the way to 1th of May. Unless your changes on Tuesday will make it much-much better (which I honestly doubt).

 

Wonderful.

 

Yeah. That's why I said "Too little, too late."

 

This whole conquest change is pretty much the opposite of what Keith said it would be. So did he flat out lie to us or is he just that clueless as to what's going on with the game? The only things he got right was that they were changing the UI and the commanders compendium being added.

 

There's been a great disturbance.

Edited March 27, 2018 by PorsaLindahl

[PennyAnn]

Yeah. That's why I said "Too little, too late."

 

This whole conquest change is pretty much the opposite of what Keith said it would be. So did he flat out lie to us or is he just that clueless as to what's going on with the game? The only things he got right was that they were changing the UI and the commanders compendium being added.

 

There's been a great disturbance.

 

What good is the companion compendium when the only reason people wanted them was to level companions for crafting... and crafting is hosed. It's so ironic it is almost funny, in an "I feel like I'm on my way to a mental institution" kind of way.

 

I realize you meant that he announced it correctly when you say "the only things he got right" - but it made me think about how worthless 1/2 of that is and that they couldn't even make the one thing most people were looking forward to be MORE meaningful rather than LESS.

[Rheshalea]

What good is the companion compendium when the only reason people wanted them was to level companions for crafting... and crafting is hosed. It's so ironic it is almost funny, in an "I feel like I'm on my way to a mental institution" kind of way.

 

I realize you meant that he announced it correctly when you say "the only things he got right" - but it made me think about how worthless 1/2 of that is and that they couldn't even make the one thing most people were looking forward to be MORE meaningful rather than LESS.

 

As a solo player I could have seen myself boosting a favourite companion or two. But that price tag... ohdeargods. Nope.

My main has two comps at 50, one alt has one at 48, I have a Legacy bank tab two thirds full of gifts to shower on future favoured returning comps... I'll be fine without buying a hugely overpriced compendium, especially when it's tied to completing Conquest which I may never do again.

[PorsaLindahl]

What good is the companion compendium when the only reason people wanted them was to level companions for crafting... and crafting is hosed. It's so ironic it is almost funny, in an "I feel like I'm on my way to a mental institution" kind of way.

 

I realize you meant that he announced it correctly when you say "the only things he got right" - but it made me think about how worthless 1/2 of that is and that they couldn't even make the one thing most people were looking forward to be MORE meaningful rather than LESS.

 

You give them too much credit when you say 1/2 of it is worthless. It's more like 9/10 worthless.

[chaharbagh]

Just be civil. I DO NOT want this game shut down.

[PorsaLindahl]

Just be civil. I DO NOT want this game shut down.

 

I don't want it shut down, either. But I do expect a finished product and not to be subjected to having to beta test a total train wreck revamp of a system that just needed some minor tweaks. This whole thing is one giant soup sandwich.

[Quraswren]

So basically what you are saying we are stuck with the new crappy system for the whole month - all the way to 1th of May. Unless your changes on Tuesday will make it much-much better (which I honestly doubt).

 

Wonderful.

 

It will be much longer than a month we are stuck with the garbage that is now conquest. bioware will not make changes fast enough to even get it back to something mediocre much less worth doing for the time.

 

The "we will wait and see" from bioware will last into the summer and I wouldn't be shocked to find it still happening come fall and conquest still be a garbage design vs what we had. Compare the old conquest to anything they do to the new one and it will still be better months if not for the entire year of 2018.

[IanArgent]

I'm not usually one to complain (I wear my white knight accusations with pride), but, dang, BW, you done messed up.

 

For me, conquest was always one of those things where I checked into the tab once or twice a session to see if the points I racked up doing "other things" had added up to enough to make it worthwhile to make an effort to Do The Things that would put me over the top of my personal goal on that character. Most of the time it wasn't, unless I happened to be doing a lot of PvP that week; but I always checked, because the personal conquest goal rewards were minor but fun. This last week, it was only due to the bug that I came close to completion on one character, and none of the rest even moved the needle sufficiently. (Though I might have actually downed those enemies in the normal course of play anyway, I often do on Gree Weeks).

 

The personal rewards Aren't All That; such that they need to be blocked to a single character in a legacy in a week. I'm not in any conquest-oriented guilds, so I can only presume about the thoughts about the guild goals that led to this, but in trying to cut off the "score inflation" of the old system, you've utterly destroyed the personal system for casual players. The Legacy Lockout for daily repeatables has got to go. Per character is fine, per legacy is not.