Why NO KILL option on Ashara?

[Goreshaga]

If your character hated Ashara and you wanted to kill her, my question would be, why would you have recruited her and why would she have allowed you to get close to her?

Honnestly, if i had the option to let her rot on Taris after getting Kalatosh, and never ever see her face again after that point and never have to hear her constantly complain about everything, i'd gladly take that option over any other...

 

Considering that this is not an option, i'll never take her alert on my Nox and just consider that she died at some points

[Lunafox]

Have only seen the Youtube videos but while I can appreciate Ashara's character arc, I hate what they did to the DS player's agency.

 

By this I mean not allowing the DS Inquisitor to fight and possibly kill her when she laugably claimed she was the equal of the DS Inquisitor (No, she is not. If she was then should have gotten off her *** and actually defeated the Eternal Empire before the Outsider was thawed from Carbonite).

 

To put it simply there should have been a Kill option for her as no DS Sith would allow a rebellious apprentice like that to walk away without a fight. Maybe, maybe just maybe they would allow Ashara to walk away if she offered something in return (and ensured the Inquisitor could not kill her and take it)

 

Another option (if killing is not desired for a future story arc) would have been to allow a fight but have Ashara escape and go into hiding (again) at the end of it.

 

To those who are against Kill options for companions, I can only say this:

 

I don't necessarily want to kill Companions but if there is no kill option

 

BUT

 

BW should not make Companions do things that a DS character would kill them for.

 

 

I agree with you completely. If they can allow some companions to be allowed to live, but still have a death option, I don't see why this case should be any different. Plenty of other companions have a death option, but 'exist' in a person's story if they chose to keep them...albeit, from the looks of it, at a greatly reduced capacity, which is unfortunate.

 

I could even see a compromise, humiliation and being left for dead, that would work for a dark sider. After the dark sider leaves, they could've shown someone saving her if she's so important to the future (which I doubt). This was probably the worst of the returns when it comes to player agency, especially those who are dark siders. They could've even had it, if Ashara was so against the DS Commander, she could've stayed on the run, maybe only reach out to the light or romanced players.

[Lunafox]

Honnestly, if i had the option to let her rot on Taris after getting Kalatosh, and never ever see her face again after that point and never have to hear her constantly complain about everything, i'd gladly take that option over any other...

 

Considering that this is not an option, i'll never take her alert on my Nox and just consider that she died at some points

 

I would never have taken her on either. But leaving her alert untouched works for me.

[tummiswtor]

You (Players) would want option to kill every NPC in game.

[Lunafox]

You (Players) would want option to kill every NPC in game.

 

Honestly, not everyone. I've only ever wanted to really kill one or two. Anyway, I've made my points, this horse has been beaten into a pulp and I see nothing being done about it, so likely nothing will. At this stage, I'd rather just deal with new things and shove the hideous past where it belongs, in the past.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

You (Players) would want option to kill every NPC in game.

 

I certainly do. I pretty much kill on reflex as any good Dark Lord of the Sith should.

 

.

Edited November 21, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Goreshaga]

You (Players) would want option to kill every NPC in game.

Not necessarily.

I've killed no one i had an option to spare on my JK for instance.

 

On the other hand, my Nox not having an opportunity to dismiss Ashara from the start is very frustrating and not being able to kill her later when she's openly insolent and acting as a rebelious teenager (which she's not supposed to be anymore when you can take her AA) who demands to be his equal when she's never done anything to prove herself to him is way out of character for him.

He'll play it pretty nicely if you're worth his time and show him respect (he's always very kind to Talos for instance), but he'll be ruthless to anyone who is trying to force him do something and would kill anyone acting like that without a second thought, even if said person was his apprentice.

Well even more so if said person was his apprentice and should know better than this (considering he's always behaved like this during his whole class story), and especially if that person knows about his secrets and can turn into a threat to him latter.

 

And this is precisely why i'll never take her AA with that character...

[MikeCobalt]

Annnddd here we are back *Here again , Not that this ever really faded or died out (Died,.. what a concept in *This, Context) away. I don't think I've played my Inquisitor for a solid hour since then, now that I(we) know that Character is the "Weakest of the weak" and every time Ashara is around every S.I. player will remember that (Great job for allowing that bit of "Self Defeatism, Fatalism, Cant Win for Losing" Dialog to be released. "Yaa, that'll make our Customers Happy < not".

 

Companions should Never be put in a position for this to happen but due to a dialog with a purpose plus a horrible timing of BW putting a stop to the "Comp Killing" here it is. Every Class has its "Anti-Hero" and before Ashara was seldom more then "That odd one" typically ignored in favor of the other comps (Generally Khem and Andro) however This comp has became the undoing for the entire class. A Twit. Companions should/'ve Never been killable and simply the option if never used even once is a detriment to *Every Single Customer with a Character in that Class beyond that point in SWTOR. One horribly written 2 minute segment of script has really messed up a lot with one of the most favored class's; what's worse, somebody proof read and thought it was good.

[SithKoriandr]

Now I want to know how many want to kill Ashara but left Arcann alive, because that should never be a thing for those DSers

[bluehufsa]

I certainly do. I pretty much kill on reflex as any good Dark Lord of the Sith should.

 

.

 

WAAAA ! Blasphemy!!!! You don't find all the popular female companions "kyoot" and they are not your "space waifu" ??? Bad bad bad Sith Lord! :D:D

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

WAAAA ! Blasphemy!!!! You don't find all the popular female companions "kyoot" and they are not your "space waifu" ??? Bad bad bad Sith Lord! :D:D

 

Well, chicks are another matter entirely. If they're yum and nice to me, yeah,they definitely get to live.

 

You got me there

[Goreshaga]

Now I want to know how many want to kill Ashara but left Arcann alive, because that should never be a thing for those DSers

My Imperius spared Arcann and took Ashara back, because it would've been ooc for her to do otherwise, even though that was the most unsatisfying "take a companion back" i had to do so far...

 

As for my Nox, he lives in the same continuity as my JK, and she's my canon Outlander.

She spared Arcann, so for continuity purpose, he'll have to spare Arcann too (for the simple reason that in my HC he'll never be the one who faces him) when i'll be on KOFEET with him, because it would not make sense to have Arcann alive and dead in the same "universe", same with Iokath, he'll side with the Republic because it'd make no sense to have both Malcom and Acina dead or both Acina and Vowrawn as the ruler of the Sith.

So never taking Ashara's AA would actually not change anything for him or my overall story as she's not even part of the story for anyone else than him, i'll probably just HC that he never took her on his ship in the first place and traveled with his all male crew.

[Lunafox]

Now I want to know how many want to kill Ashara but left Arcann alive, because that should never be a thing for those DSers

 

It wasn't. I killed him on all but one toon and all my mains are dark side 5.

[SithKoriandr]

It wasn't. I killed him on all but one toon and all my mains are dark side 5.

 

I'm just sure there was some a DS 5 who went about killing so many who betrayed/wronged them, wants to kill Ashara, because she's uppity and cocky, but left Arcann alive because they want to romance him, nevermind he was never in a romance position until long after you could kill him.

[Lunafox]

I'm just sure there was some a DS 5 who went about killing so many who betrayed/wronged them, wants to kill Ashara, because she's uppity and cocky, but left Arcann alive because they want to romance him, nevermind he was never in a romance position until long after you could kill him.

 

Well, I fit in with those who find her an uppity snoot and want to kill her just for all the annoyance she's provided. But I get what you're saying. I'm just not one of those that was into Arcann. I had no issues killing him whenever it came up. The only time my ds5 is merciful is to Quinn. Because I love him.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I get why some people might want to have the kill option for her wherein she comes walseing back in acting like she's the player's equal. Even among the Jedi they wouldn't do that.

 

That'd be like Kenobi walking into the Jedi Council and demaning equal respect as Yoda.

That filthy green puke face.

 

 

I can understand why some peeps feel that as a Darksider that kind of thing doesn't fly. You should be able to slap the taste out of her mouth for that.

 

But, even still, I'm not sure if it's severe enough to warrant death. Although I can see that being a decision on a case by case basis and so the kill option could be there for those who do feel it's deserving of death.

 

She's just soo damn hot and it would be a shame to throw that level of hot yummy-ness out.

 

I say put a shock collar on her and bring her around while she learns the error of her ways and needs a good enslavement for a while. Worth a try, and than she either 'bows down before the one she serves' [the player] or she makes a dramatic exit via Force Lightning.

 

Sith don't play. Her choice.

[Goreshaga]

She's just soo damn hot and it would be a shame to throw that level of hot yummy-ness out.

That's very subjective

I find her ugly and one of the most annoying companions i ever had to deal with (quite on the same level of disgut as Skage...), but that is my personnal view.

As for my Nox, he's not into women (and i will admit that Ashara being the only romance option for a male SI is part of why i made him gay in the first place, but the poor guy is still waiting for a nice dude to romance), so her "hotness" would not save her on that one

 

And if a male companion was put in a position where he "deserved" a kill option because some players did not like him standing up to them, then, why should a female companion get a free pass on the same thing ? (Guy was talking against you killing civilians, girl was all about her own being...)

Well i guess the obvious answer is that it is perfectly fine to kill guys because they stand for what they believe in but killing an annoying girl is really too awfull even for the most DS characters

[SithKoriandr]

I get why some people might want to have the kill option for her wherein she comes walseing back in acting like she's the player's equal. Even among the Jedi they wouldn't do that.

 

That'd be like Kenobi walking into the Jedi Council and demaning equal respect as Yoda.

That filthy green puke face.

 

 

I can understand why some peeps feel that as a Darksider that kind of thing doesn't fly. You should be able to slap the taste out of her mouth for that.

 

But, even still, I'm not sure if it's severe enough to warrant death. Although I can see that being a decision on a case by case basis and so the kill option could be there for those who do feel it's deserving of death.

 

She's just soo damn hot and it would be a shame to throw that level of hot yummy-ness out.

 

I say put a shock collar on her and bring her around while she learns the error of her ways and needs a good enslavement for a while. Worth a try, and than she either 'bows down before the one she serves' [the player] or she makes a dramatic exit via Force Lightning.

 

Sith don't play. Her choice.

 

Hmmm. I can see how being a dark sider it would fly.

 

I then just curious if it's really a dark sider thing or an Ashara thing. You can tell it's more of an Ashara thing, if they let other romance options live.

 

Like Koth. Arcann. Theron. They all did something a DS wouldn't be happy about, especially if all they got to hate on Ashara is "She talked tough to me."

[Goreshaga]

Hmmm. I can see how being a dark sider it would fly.

 

I then just curious if it's really a dark sider thing or an Ashara thing. You can tell it's more of an Ashara thing, if they let other romance options live.

 

Like Koth. Arcann. Theron. They all did something a DS wouldn't be happy about, especially if all they got to hate on Ashara is "She talked tough to me."

I can only speak for myself, but yeah for me there is an Ashara thing (though my Nox would clearly not tolerate her behaviour), i never liked her to begin with, but her AA made me dislike her even more than i did before.

- I never wanted to take her on my ship, but was forced to take her anyway.

- I hate her voice and the way she talks likes she's always complaining about everything.

- She's a selfish and very arrogant girl, who thinks she's so special that she deserves everything even when she does not.

- One day she likes you, the next day she hates you. Make up you mind girl !

- She's never done anything usefull during the class story, except lead you into a Jedi trap on Taris (oh that would deserve a kill option for many Sith btw)

- She did ABSOLUTELY nothing when the SI was in carbonite, never bothered to look for them, even seemingly hiding from you, never did anything to fight against the EE, but she expect to be treated as an equal by the person who took down the whole imperial familly when she was nowhere to be seen (at least Arcann, Koth and Theron actively help you take down the EE and Valkorion when you don't kill them)... And she's trying to force the SI to do as she wants (which would not go smoothly with my Nox tbh, he has killed people during his class story for the very same reason, he'd not spare her for that either).

 

I only did that AA with my Imperius who has always been very kind to her. She looked so unhappy to see her, and it seemed like she wanted nothing to do with her former master. I ended up taking her back to stay in character, but i seriously contemplated the option of telling her to run away very fast and never show her face ever again.

 

But there the only acceptable option for my Nox would be to turn her into a big pile of ashes. If the oprion to refuse her joining my crew was available, i'd gladly take it and don't bother that there is no kill option. And considering that she's not part of the KOTFEET or traitor arc storylines, a kill option would not remove her from other people's story anymore than she already is, while ALL of the male LI who were part of KOTFEET / Iokath got a kill option and were removed for everyone, including the characters who would never kill them and/or romanced them.

 

My canon Outlander is a LS JK, so she never had any problem with Koth, choose to make an ally out of Arcann and would not kill Theron when all he did was trying to protect her (so ouviously these 3 are still alive for my 8 main characters, even the DS ones, for continuity purpose).

Had she met Ashara,she'd probably have welcomed her in the Alliance with open arms, even though i can't stand her, because that's just how my JK is and my personal feelings towards the Togruta don't count here, but she never met Ashara, so she is non existent in her continuity, then my Nox killing her would not change anything of her story.

I did not like SCORPIO or Kalyio either, but they're still alive nonetheless.

[MikeCobalt]

If Ashara wanted to be Treated "As an Equal", why in the **** did she ever walk onto a "Sith Ship"? There is No *Equal in the Sith, some are higher, some are Lower (Striving to be Higher) and some (Most) are dead because they *Tried to be higher then other Sith Wanted, (Loriman). Considering the Movies, SWTOR itself and other sources its very much "Eat or be Eaten" ex. S.I. Overtakes Thanaton. Again the S.I. did everything in the Class Story, Possibly still holding all the ghosts (Several times more power then any other single person) Fought Revan to a stand still, Lead and Fought the Zakuul threat down, Destroyed Vaylin, Destroyed Valkorian (Vitiate/ Emperor), Possibly killed Arcann (Biggest war criminal Ever), and yet Ashara wants to be ............................................Equal (Appearantly the Writer and BW forces that "Sorry bout yer Luck Customers )

 

Sith Kill each other everyday for *Failing tasks or simply "Not Good Enough" and now the lowest Comp, the Twit (I cant decide anything, but I'll still complain about all of it) wants to be the same, and even worse....................................That Twit is stronger then the S.I. Player. Ya that makes me want to play more and pour the big bucks into this character................

Pretty enough makes them Innocent??

Edited November 22, 2018 by MikeCobalt

[SithKoriandr]

If Ashara wanted to be Treated "As an Equal", why in the **** did she ever walk onto a "Sith Ship"? There is No *Equal in the Sith, some are higher, some are Lower (Striving to be Higher) and some (Most) are dead because they *Tried to be higher then other Sith Wanted, (Loriman). Considering the Movies, SWTOR itself and other sources its very much "Eat or be Eaten" ex. S.I. Overtakes Thanaton. Again the S.I. did everything in the Class Story, Possibly still holding all the ghosts (Several times more power then any other single person) Fought Revan to a stand still, Lead and Fought the Zakuul threat down, Destroyed Vaylin, Destroyed Valkorian (Vitiate/ Emperor), Possibly killed Arcann (Biggest war criminal Ever), and yet Ashara wants to be ............................................Equal (Appearantly the Writer and BW forces that "Sorry bout yer Luck Customers )

 

Sith Kill each other everyday for *Failing tasks or simply "Not Good Enough and now the lowest Comp, the Twit (I cant decide anything, but I'll still complain about all of it) wants to be the same, and even worse....................................That Twit is stronger then the S.I. Player. Ya that makes me want to play more and pour the big bucks into this character................

Pretty enough makes them Innocent??

 

Yes, but if we use this logic, then it makes no sense for anyone to even follow the DS Sith as the leader of the Alliance. It makes no sense for Lana to rescue such a person.

 

"Hey all! I know I'm evil and kill babies and kick puppies, but follow me instead of Arcann, okaaaay?"

 

[Lunafox]

I can only speak for myself, but yeah for me there is an Ashara thing (though my Nox would clearly not tolerate her behaviour), i never liked her to begin with, but her AA made me dislike her even more than i did before.

- I never wanted to take her on my ship, but was forced to take her anyway.

- I hate her voice and the way she talks likes she's always complaining about everything.

- She's a selfish and very arrogant girl, who thinks she's so special that she deserves everything even when she does not.

- One day she likes you, the next day she hates you. Make up you mind girl !

- She's never done anything usefull during the class story, except lead you into a Jedi trap on Taris (oh that would deserve a kill option for many Sith btw)

- She did ABSOLUTELY nothing when the SI was in carbonite, never bothered to look for them, even seemingly hiding from you, never did anything to fight against the EE, but she expect to be treated as an equal by the person who took down the whole imperial familly when she was nowhere to be seen (at least Koth and Theron actively help you take down the EE and Valkorion when you don't kill them)... And she's trying to force the SI to do as she wants (which would not go smoothly with my Nox tbh, he has killed people during his class story for the very same reason, he'd not spare her for that either).

 

 

But there the only acceptable option for my Nox would be to turn her into a big pile of ashes. If the option to refuse her joining my crew was available, i'd gladly take it and don't bother that there is no kill option. And considering that she's not part of the KOTFEET or traitor arc storylines, a kill option would not remove her from other people's story anymore than she already is, while ALL of the male LI who were part of KOTFEET / Iokath got a kill option and were removed for everyone, including the characters who would never kill them and/or romanced them.

 

 

 

If Ashara wanted to be Treated "As an Equal", why in the **** did she ever walk onto a "Sith Ship"? There is No *Equal in the Sith, some are higher, some are Lower (Striving to be Higher) and some (Most) are dead because they *Tried to be higher then other Sith Wanted, (Loriman). Considering the Movies, SWTOR itself and other sources its very much "Eat or be Eaten" ex. S.I. Overtakes Thanaton. Again the S.I. did everything in the Class Story, Possibly still holding all the ghosts (Several times more power then any other single person) Fought Revan to a stand still, Lead and Fought the Zakuul threat down, Destroyed Vaylin, Destroyed Valkorian (Vitiate/ Emperor), Possibly killed Arcann (Biggest war criminal Ever), and yet Ashara wants to be ............................................Equal (Appearantly the Writer and BW forces that "Sorry bout yer Luck Customers )

 

Sith Kill each other everyday for *Failing tasks or simply "Not Good Enough" and now the lowest Comp, the Twit (I cant decide anything, but I'll still complain about all of it) wants to be the same, and even worse....................................That Twit is stronger then the S.I. Player. Ya that makes me want to play more and pour the big bucks into this character................

Pretty enough makes them Innocent??

 

You guys articulated how I've felt about the whole thing perfectly. I completely and totally agree.

 

Also beauty is subjective and I find Ashara unattractive in appearance, voice and character.

[MikeCobalt]

Yes, but if we use this logic, then it makes no sense for anyone to even follow the DS Sith as the leader of the Alliance. It makes no sense for Lana to rescue such a person.

 

"Hey all! I know I'm evil and kill babies and kick puppies, but follow me instead of Arcann, okaaaay?"

 

Your Very right. *Eventually a Typical Sith Commander will find a fault in everybody (Vader > Most of the Imperials around him). Considering Vowrawn, Marr, Vader and Sidious A commander must *Suffer the seemingly Inept to a point simply because they do serve a function. But referring back to Ashara, none of those members openly Defied the Alliance commander, Ashara was at the very least Insubordinate with Intent. This is the Sith, what happens to people that do that? (except for Twits apparently).

Edited November 22, 2018 by MikeCobalt

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Hmmm. I can see how being a dark sider it would fly.

 

I then just curious if it's really a dark sider thing or an Ashara thing. You can tell it's more of an Ashara thing, if they let other romance options live.

 

Like Koth. Arcann. Theron. They all did something a DS wouldn't be happy about, especially if all they got to hate on Ashara is "She talked tough to me."

 

I think there is some play room here, I don't feel that a darksider should always kill under those circumstances. Just because you are a darksider, that doesn't have to mean you are a serial killer.

 

I play a stauch Dark V darkside character, I don't think choosing to let someone live should always be seen as 'lightsider' only response.

 

Joking aside, I don't think a darksider would find wanton killing of defenceless women and children that have done them no wrong necssary.

 

In fact in prison, convicts who are incarcerated for crimes against children find thesemlves in danger from other inmates because even among stone cold rapists, killers, and robbers hurting children sexually or just physicaly is a cardinal sin. If it becomes known that a inmate has done such things, they are most often sent to ad seg [Administrative Segregation] where they have to live alone and stay in their cells for 23hours a day because the prison officials won't take the chance of other inmates 'green lighting' the child offender for harm or death or even worse, being raped themselves.

 

Evil comes with many faces and sometimes honorable behavior isn't incompatable with the evil doers.

 

A darksider would likely kill women and children if it was due to collateral damage if that's the price for increased power or success but I do not find the idea of restraint incompatible with darksiders out of hand.

 

Darksiders can't be good people, they can't be selfless, but that doesn't mean they can't live with a code of honor.

 

Count Dooku was ever the gentleman, and even Darth Vader spared peoples lives who messed up at times, only force choking them a bit or even just warning them. "The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am". -

 

I see the Ashara choice as correct because some Darksiders would kill for it, but not all. The Sith are all about feeling and emotion, it's what drives them, it's just often taken to extremes. Not killing Ashara shouldn't be a lightside choice, because some darksiders would relish the idea of yet putting her in her place in the future as well as breaking her resolve and belief in her self absent her master.

 

You can't kill everyone you disagree with or no one will ever be willing to work with you.

 

Anakin Skywalker went to the darkside out of love. Because he couldn't bare the thought of ever losing Padmé to death. Darth Sideous knew that using Anakin's love for Padmé would gain him a new and even more powerful apprentice.

 

If a darksider had loved Ashara it wouldn't be inconcievable that the darksider would 'spare her' because of his overwheming emotions towards her and the hope that he could 'break' her and put her back in her place. You could even see it as a selfish motivation because she's something he wants.

 

If nothing else though, they should have at least given the player the option the choice to force choke her some, maybe fling her around the room into walls, or use non lethal amounts of Force Lighting.

 

That said, in the case of an Inquistor that didn't have romantic feelings for her, I see the kill option a much more likely choice in such cases.

 

Should they have given the player a kill option for Ashara, all things considered, yeah I do think they should have. I'm really not sure what I would do in their place if Jaesa came home after the events of the Eternal Empire finished expressing a similar attitude to Asharas which for all I know may very well happen. Only thing I can say about that is that I wouldn't be okay with it, and I wouldn't be made the fool.

 

As she's one of my wives she knows I wouldn't ever see her as an equal in terms of power because she isn't. - Honestly, I don't think I'd kill her over it, but I would slap her around some to remind her of her place as my lesser. I'm the King of the Castle and shes welcome to sit next to me, but never in my chair. Far as I'm concerned, I own her like a piece of property. I do like her a ton tho. Fortunately, I think Jaesa's far too smart for that, she'd know that wouldn't fly with me.

[SithKoriandr]

Your Very right. *Eventually a Typical Sith Commander will find a fault in everybody (Vader > Most of the Imperials around him). Considering Vowrawn, Marr, Vader and Sidious A commander must *Suffer the seemingly Inept to a point simply because they do serve a function. But referring back to Ashara, none of those members openly Defied the Alliance commander, Ashara was at the very least Insubordinate with Intent. This is the Sith, what happens to people that do that? (except for Twits apparently).

 

Marr never felt like a "I pick all the dark side option" Sith to me.

 

As many of the DSV players talk, they're very much the "Gotta pick all the DS options." I just don't see any character like a DSV gaining a follow the likes of Palpatine (thus Alliance commander) without first some under handed tricks, which the PC never does.