We need Chat Moderation

[DWho]

You know if you want to argue against chat moderation how about coming up with a reasoned approach instead of fear mongering. At least the people who argued it would be expensive were making a reasonable assertion which could reasonably be debated. Post after post though is the hypothetical "What if the moderator has a bad day and decides to go on a ban spree" argument. I'm sure everyone who has received a suspension or ban was totally innocent and it was the fault of a moderator or Customer Service Rep or Security team rep having a bad day or not liking them. Edited December 11, 2017 by DWho

[denavin]

You know if you want to argue against chat moderation how about coming up with a reasoned approach instead of fear mongering. At least the people who argued it would be expensive were making a reasonable assertion which could reasonably be debated. Post after post though is the hypothetical "What if the moderator has a bad day and decides to go on a ban spree" argument. I'm sure everyone who has received a suspension or ban was totally innocent and it was the fault of a moderator or Customer Service Rep or Security team rep having a bad day or not liking them.

 

Ah yes, the Auto-Squelch was indeed a fary tale of people misusing and abusing this Chat Moderation Tool... I guess that is why BW had to almost disable it because it was doing so much good for chat...

[DWho]

Ah yes, the Auto-Squelch was indeed a fary tale of people misusing and abusing this Chat Moderation Tool... I guess that is why BW had to almost disable it because it was doing so much good for chat...

 

Which is why an online moderator is better. They are able to observe what is going on and make the decision rather than rely on an automated system. Automatic systems for this type of thing usually work poorly. That issue actually is a reason to have online moderators rather than a reason not to.

Edited December 12, 2017 by DWho

[Mournblood]

The only people who have anything to worry about with live in-game chat moderators are the ones doing the trolling.

[Ibokagain]

Freedom of speech has no bearing in an online internet game, or any private internet chatroom, for that matter. And while Bioware is based in the US, other chatroom and internet games are not. Many other countries do not have a 1st Amendment. In this case, you essentially waive such rights when you agreed to abide by the ToS, which was required to play the game. And even if all of that wasn't true, it's a common misconception that freedom of speech in the US means freedom from the consequences of that speech. That is absolutely not true.

 

As for chat moderation in this game, it only needs to be similar to what they do in EVE Online. There, the chat moderators are only able to mute/silence you if you get out of line. They can't suspend or ban your account, however, they can report egregious behavior for possible additional action, up to and including an account suspension or ban. All we need is Bioware moderators with the power to deal with the rampant trolling in the public chat channels. With as few servers as we have now, this wouldn't cost them very much money to staff, but it would make a world of difference for a lot of players.

 

Finally, the trolling that is literally out of control on the public chat channels is a violation of the ToS, and actionable. Until BW steps up to do the right thing here, the burden has unfortunately fallen to the players. I completely disagree with this, since we're paying THEM for the service of playing this game. We shouldn't be expected to police the game unless they are paying us to do that. Regardless, report the worst offenders, and be sure to mention the server time when the offensive chat was posted so that CS can more easily and quickly find it in their server logs. If you're like me and refuse to police the game for BW, either add them to your Ignore list (yes, I know the Ignore feature sucks), or just turn off General chat like I did.

 

For those who haven't actually read the ToS, the specific areas regarding this issue are below, and can be found here: http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

 

Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything to another player that is unwanted. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated. (See also “Harassment Policy” below.)

Create character names or otherwise transmit or facilitate distribution of Content that is harmful, abusive, racially or ethnically offensive, vulgar, sexually explicit, defamatory, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, or objectionable in a reasonable person's view. (Also see “Naming Policy” below.)

“Trolling,” which we define as posts or threads that knowingly lead to overly strong, negative, and emotional responses for mere shock value, is not allowed on the Service. Accounts created with the sole intent to “troll” will be immediately and permanently suspended. Constant personal attacks are also considered trolling. (See also “Forum Guidelines” below.)

 

^ all of the above agree 100%

[aerockyul]

As was stated previously, multiple times, 24/7 moderation of all channels is not necessary. General chat is the biggest problem and is most problematic in very specific time periods. Ignore doesn't work and has never worked for getting trolls out of chat (all you have to do is look at the state of general chat now and that is obvious - it's worse now than it ever has been and lots of people are "ignoring" it). All it does is hide the problem and only so long as the troll doesn't create a new character to troll with thus bypassing your limited ignore list. Ignoring the problem also encourages new trolls so even if the old trolls go away they are replaced almost immediately because there is no fear of punishment. Violations of the games Code of Conduct should be punished not ignored.

 

Edit: On the turning off chat point. Lots of people have complained that this game is becoming a single player game. I can't imagine a better way to make that true than having everyone turn off chat.

 

Your edited note is a good one. Though I don't always go out of my way to make sure all my in game activities are the "This is an MMO grumble rumble rabble rabble" variety, I like answering questions and sometimes people are selling stuff I need/want, and of course answering the occasional LFG when I have the time to spare. Turning gen chat off worsens the game overall and is another notch in the belt of the trolls pushing people away and worsening the overall health of the community.

 

The people subtly telling us to sack up or cut ourselves off from gen chat are also the ones rubbing that "this is an MMO" pablum in everyone's faces are almost always the ones lamenting the death of the group activity populations, yet can't quite make the connection there. Witness what goes on in the PvP channel and the incessant complaints that not enough people want to PvP in this game

[LoverNoFighter]

Ignore option is your friend.

This isn't even a problem tbh. I sincerly hope the devs/whoever focus on real issues.

[DyreMaker]

Yes we need live chat moderation. On SS this has gotten 100x worse for some reason after the merge. 99.999% of the discussions are pointless, rude, crude and highly offensive. To speak up is to become a target for a mass of discontented and emotionally unstable people. The rules say I cannot harass, torment or bully yet it is done verbally every passing second of the day in chat.

 

Reporting, filters and ignore are too simplistic to use in this game now. People can't or won't spell correctly, ignore stops you from playing the game with them, not just a mute, and reporting them is not responsive enough. These utilities are useless in a game with the increasing consolidation efforts and roles. We need live chat moderation to allow more focus on the game.

[Foambreaker]

Get a free EVE account, fly to a star system called Jita and you will fall in love with our chat again

 

It can get a lot worse!

[LordFell]

I am using the term freedom of speech as a moral stance and not a legal one.

In the context of a video game, this is a ridiculous hill to die on. Sure, to keep your post in context, you do go on to explain that chat is out of control... but let's also take this on this statement purely on its merits.

 

When you talk about freedom of speech or freedom of anything, you need to also embrace the soul of laissez faire -which is to say "hands off" approach to governance. A very common way of explaining what laissez faire means is the phrase "my right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins." Or, again, more simply... I can do what I want, as long as I'm not hurting anyone else.

 

When you apply that same moral stance (or probably ethical, but I'm not a philosophy professor) to online trolls... you have to also concede that their entertainment isn't in spewing garbage... their entertainment is derived out of the number of people they inconvenience, irritate or offend. So, they are morally (or ethically, whichever) in the wrong here.

 

 

No, you are asking for people to be silenced. I'm not outraged or even pretend outraged about it. I'm disappointed. I don't want to see people silenced, you do. I don't care if someone says something that I don't agree with, you do.

Yes. I am definitely asking for people to be silenced.

 

The people I am thinking of know what they're doing. As above, they are getting off on being as unpleasant as possible. I am paying to enjoy the game... I am also willing to pay to play the game and enjoy it with other people. I am not willing to pay to play the game to be someone else's entertainment at my expense.

 

And I'm not saying that SWTOR should start up by locking accounts; I want to see an escalating scale, starting with warnings, going to suppressed chat, then silences, temp bans... and finally account locks (with good behaviour de-escalating the scale).

 

And, while we may be in disagreement about whether Chat should be moderated... the TOS/EULA, does come down on my side of the issue... and I would also content that those terms are binding both ways; if we as players aren't supposed to be trolling chat.... SWTOR has an obligation to enforce their terms, and do something about trolls in chat.

[DWho]

Get a free EVE account, fly to a star system called Jita and you will fall in love with our chat again

 

It can get a lot worse!

 

"It can get a lot worse" is not an excuse for leaving it as it is. It will get worse if it is left alone (and has). Another big difference is that you can completely avoid Jita if you want in EVE Online (there are lots of other trade hubs), you don't have to turn off chat to avoid what goes on there. You can't avoid fleet in this game. Every class story takes you through fleet and all of the GC vendors are on the fleet not to mention quite a few reputation vendors..

[Gwaneth]

What I would like is to stop the 4-5 people who start the Jawa movie title conversations and then dominate the chat for hours on SF.

You can’t even ask a question or have a conversation because there is just a constant stream of Jawa movie titles. It’s usually only 4-5 of the same people in the whole conversation and if anyone else posts something it gets drowned out instantly with 4 or 5 Jawa posts.

Yesterday I was on coruscant and it got so bad I left my SH and went to the fleet. Then about 40mins later those same people appeared on the fleet and started to drown out fleet chat too.

 

I do realise that it’s people having fun, but it gets old really fast and when it follows you from instance to instance it gets aggravating. There has to be a time limit on this sort of chat domination. When it goes on for hours it ruins any social interaction in those instances.

I dont want people to not be able to do it at all. They are entitled to have some fun with it as we’ve all done it at some point in the past.

We just need some in game chat mods that could step in when it goes on for too long and say “that’s enough”.

 

I hate hate hate the stupid jawa thing...that is sooooo old. And yes, I have seen that happen also. It starts on a planet then the same people try to start it on the fleet. What I don't understand is why anyone hangs out on the fleet. I am a founder and I personally spend as little time on the fleets or the 2 beginner planets as possible. Once you hit the rest of the planets there vileness seems to disappear but for some reason DK, corescant and both fleets are just nasty talk. I keep my ignore lists pretty full most of the time.

[DWho]

I hate hate hate the stupid jawa thing...that is sooooo old. And yes, I have seen that happen also. It starts on a planet then the same people try to start it on the fleet. What I don't understand is why anyone hangs out on the fleet. I am a founder and I personally spend as little time on the fleets or the 2 beginner planets as possible. Once you hit the rest of the planets there vileness seems to disappear but for some reason DK, corescant and both fleets are just nasty talk. I keep my ignore lists pretty full most of the time.

 

The reason DK, Coruscant and fleet are the worst is that everyone who plays the game has to go through those areas. There is no choice. You can for the most part avoid fleet and those planets after you get past the DK/Coruscant storyline but up to that point you are a captive audience (and every player new to the game gets those areas as their first experience with the SWTOR community - a pretty sad representation at that) for the trolls and they know it. That is why cracking down on them there would have a big effect, it is where most of them hang out.

[Rheshalea]

I've been farming decos and CXP on Coruscant for a few days, and I have to say I agree.

Usually I don't spend much time on Fleet or any other place where chat can get annoying, but to farm those Overheated Gift Droids, I kinda have to have gen chat on, and pay attention to it. This is also why I don't want to /ignore the undesirables.

 

I really, really wish we had Chat Moderators. Trolls, spammers, people with the mental age of 9, those who want to spoil the new SW movie and various other "funny" individuals should be given increasingly longer time-outs from both general chat and whispers. If they don't learn from the first 10-20-30 minutes, slap them with 2 hours, then 5, then 10, then 24, with warnings from the chat moderator about the length of the next time-out. After say three days of behaving in a socially acceptable manner the cycle starts again from 10 minutes - I mean, let's be fair and give people a chance to improve.

[Uruare]

You can fairly be judged by the state of your house.

 

Bioware owns a slovenly kept house in which there are barely enforced rules for the most egregious of rulebreakers.

 

Respect is not encouraged by the status quo or required by the realities.

 

You're given tools by which to render yourself deaf and blind to the reek and filth, however.

[LordFell]

I think there's been three or four busy threads about the state of General Chat since the merger. I've sent a PM to Eric regarding the issue (as well as a vaguely related matter of a character name which is clearly offensive, but CS has refused to force a rename on), but I haven't had a reply. ...I'd love to hear something from Eric... or Kevin, or any Bioware post, about what sort of future plans there are to make the Bioware house less slovenly (as the poster above eloquently put it).

 

For me, one of the most important things I get out of my time in game is immersion. Trolling is one of those things that seriously breaks immersion, detracts from my enjoyment of the game... and it's not a matter of ignoring one troll, or spammer, it's a matter of the chat being infested with twits. And no... I don't feel I should need to turn off chat; I feel they need to respect the bounds of what's appropriate chat in a Star Wars RPG.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I hate hate hate the stupid jawa thing...that is sooooo old. And yes, I have seen that happen also. It starts on a planet then the same people try to start it on the fleet. What I don't understand is why anyone hangs out on the fleet. I am a founder and I personally spend as little time on the fleets or the 2 beginner planets as possible. Once you hit the rest of the planets there vileness seems to disappear but for some reason DK, corescant and both fleets are just nasty talk. I keep my ignore lists pretty full most of the time.

 

Ya know, everytime I see some on fleet say Jawa, I cringe and hope that it will just slip by before someone gets the idea to start the "jawa title name game". Once it starts, you're doomed, that s**t's going for an hour than heh

 

Was wondering if was the only who hated the jawa game so much! Guess not =p

[Mournblood]

Ignore option is your friend.

This isn't even a problem tbh. I sincerly hope the devs/whoever focus on real issues.

 

You can't be serious. Did you bother reading the prior pages where it was explained how ignore is insufficient to combat the problem, and does nothing to address the underlying issue? Or how players are resorting to turning off General chat completely because the "tools" given to us are not designed to deal with the scale of this issue?

 

It is a problem, or folks like me wouldn't be taking time out of our day to post about it. It is a problem because the rampant and blatant violations of the ToS are not being dealt with in a timely nor effective manner. It is a problem because ignoring it has only emboldened and increased the number of players trolling chat. Shall I continue?

 

If you don't agree, I suggest you spend more time in Fleet and let us know how the liberal use of Ignore works out for you, ignoring each and every alt of each and every player who's trolling chat with impunity (there's a whole lot of them currently, and they don't confine their trolling to one character), and on each and every one of your characters. As there's a cap on the Ignore list, you'd reach it in a matter of days.

 

You can fairly be judged by the state of your house.

 

Bioware owns a slovenly kept house in which there are barely enforced rules for the most egregious of rulebreakers.

 

Respect is not encouraged by the status quo or required by the realities.

 

You're given tools by which to render yourself deaf and blind to the reek and filth, however.

 

This is the sad state of affairs. Yet it would be really encouraging if Eric or Keith could comment on this issue.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Mournblood

[doohickeyexpress]

I dont know how bad it is for others, but Satele Shan Imperial Fleet is one of the most toxic chats I have seen in my 15+ years of MMOs.

 

It truly is disheartening, but Harbinger was like this even before the merge, so I doubt they'll do anything about it, sadly. :,(

 

EDIT: Also I forgot to mention that the Republic fleet seems much more tame and enjoyable. I've had some interesting, civil discussions there.

Edited December 20, 2017 by doohickeyexpress

[Kaedusz]

I am kinda of a fleet/DK troll and nuisance sometimes, so i used to laugh at such threads and call people oversensitive and such.

 

However after visiting the american servers some time ago i can confirm that the situation is terrible there.

And yes this is an american thing. In Europe(Darth Malgus) there are imbeciles and trolls sometimes but nothing as bad as what i saw there. The situation is sometimes so bad that you can't say 2 words before being burried instantly by an endless drivel.

 

I am not talking about the content of the drivel, but its quantity.

 

For example, Darth Malgus DK chat stuff is bad and i like bad, but in the US it's something else entirely.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Kaedusz

[DWho]

There is no problem, only you being butthurt about stuff you don't like.

 

Mostly it's being "butthurt" about things that violate the EULA and Code of Conduct.