Thanks for Theron Shan. <3 <3 <3 This is a love thread, haters make your own lol.

[cannibithobbal]

I used to hear Theron when Zenith talked and Zenith when Theron talked all the time but now they sound completely and totally different to me and I never hear the other with very very rare exception (literally like 2 places in the game: there's a tiny moment in Zenith's very last companion convo and then in the Rishi intro where Zenith weirdly sounds way more like Theron than usual 😅 )

[JakRoanin]

Well if you really want a cool (slightly trippy) experience try Batman: The Telltale series. Troy Baker and Laura Bailey (Kira) as Bruce Wayne/Batman and Selina Kyle/Catwoman. Once you switch gears from Galaxy to Gotham it's fine but at first... 🤪 really great games though I want Season 3.

[cannibithobbal]

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

Well if you really want a cool (slightly trippy) experience try Batman: The Telltale series. Troy Baker and Laura Bailey (Kira) as Bruce Wayne/Batman and Selina Kyle/Catwoman. Once you switch gears from Galaxy to Gotham it's fine but at first... 🤪 really great games though I want Season 3.

omg 🤣  I, uh..... yeah, that almost definitely would break my brain at first, no question, but I might have to check that out now at some point 😂

[JakRoanin]

Awesome games really I think you'll love them but it does bust your brain for at least 15 minutes. But next to Christian Bale and Adam West, Troy Baker makes a great Dark Knight. And while she isn't the Bestest Catwoman (Julie Newmar) Ms. Bailie has some rocking chemistry going there. 

Although I admit, it's soo weird feeling like Theron and Kira are cheating! Especially since Fem BH Ms. Grey DeLisle does the voice of Catwoman in the Arkham games. UGH. Then again, her playing BH has made me totally forgive her for playing The Handmaiden in Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords. UGH! I hated that character hard. Still, it's all very mind bending.

[cannibithobbal]

15 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Awesome games really I think you'll love them but it does bust your brain for at least 15 minutes. But next to Christian Bale and Adam West, Troy Baker makes a great Dark Knight. And while she isn't the Bestest Catwoman (Julie Newmar) Ms. Bailie has some rocking chemistry going there. 

Although I admit, it's soo weird feeling like Theron and Kira are cheating!

Definitely sounds like the wildest SWTOR AU ever, count me in 😉😅   

The Theron and Kira thing though, my brain will 100% trip out, I'm sure, especially as JK is my main Theron romance lmao

I'm sure it will be a while before I get around to it, but I'll add those to my ever-growing list of "games I will play if I can ever drag myself away from replaying swtor over and over and over again" 😅

[JakRoanin]

So, I saw a YouTube video essay on why Theron would (and if he should) remain with a Republic saboteur or a DS Imp. And I have to admit it does confuse me, why would he stay with characters opposed to his core belief system? Now, I don't think he's all that politically attached to the Republic itself, but he does share the cultural morality of it. So, I kinda think he should have gotten out-of-Dodge if PC goes tailor or any DS V PC. Thoughts?

[cannibithobbal]

43 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

So, I saw a YouTube video essay on why Theron would (and if he should) remain with a Republic saboteur or a DS Imp. And I have to admit it does confuse me, why would he stay with characters opposed to his core belief system? Now, I don't think he's all that politically attached to the Republic itself, but he does share the cultural morality of it. So, I kinda think he should have gotten out-of-Dodge if PC goes tailor or any DS V PC. Thoughts?

At the risk of knocking anyone else for their playthroughs (not my intention, people can do what they want), I completely agree, Theron being with a truly dark side character or republic saboteur makes no sense to me, doesn't sit right with me at all for that matter (like, it doesn't even sit right with me that Theron will turn on his own father for a LS/neutral character who sides with imperial on Iokath sooo).

Like you say, it goes against his core belief system and moral compass.  And like, I get the whole "opposites attract" thing, but that doesn't usually extend to opposite belief systems.  Theron cares about people A LOT, and even though he turned away from the republic due to corruption he still cares about the people in it and really doesn't want to destroy the republic (he says as much to an imperial, asks them to promise they aren't going to burn everything down, just help win the war). 

To be with someone who doesn't care about lives or protecting people or being good means either Theron needs to completely change himself as a person, which is not good (seriously, don't change yourself for a lover, kids, it's not worth it) (unless it's to choose to be a better person, I suppose, that's fine) or that relationship is NOT going to last.

I mean, obviously, in the game it will, since any character can romance any available character and they all seem to totally not care how good or bad their significant other is, which honestly should probably be different imho (like, giving these NPCs more agency to make smart relationship choices, like breaking up if you make certain really horrible choices they disagree with for example, would make the game experience more immersive).  But if you put it into perspective, that aspect of the game either just doesn't make sense or is toxic, depending on which of the options (staying together despite being polar opposites vs changing himself so that they aren't polar opposites anymore) you decide is happening.  Since I don't think Theron goes totally evil when romanced to a DS character, I think thankfully it isn't the toxic version, but, that leaves it at "nope, doesn't make sense to me, not one bit."

Edited June 11, 2023 by cannibithobbal

[Goreshaga]

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

So, I saw a YouTube video essay on why Theron would (and if he should) remain with a Republic saboteur or a DS Imp. And I have to admit it does confuse me, why would he stay with characters opposed to his core belief system? Now, I don't think he's all that politically attached to the Republic itself, but he does share the cultural morality of it. So, I kinda think he should have gotten out-of-Dodge if PC goes tailor or any DS V PC. Thoughts?

51 minutes ago, cannibithobbal said:

At the risk of knocking anyone else for their playthroughs (not my intention, people can do what they want), I completely agree, Theron being with a truly dark side character or republic saboteur makes no sense to me, doesn't sit right with me at all for that matter (like, it doesn't even sit right with me that Theron will turn on his own father for a LS/neutral character who sides with imperial on Iokath sooo).

Like you say, it goes against his core belief system and moral compass.  And like, I get the whole "opposites attract" thing, but that doesn't usually extend to opposite belief systems.  Theron cares about people A LOT, and even though he turned away from the republic due to corruption he still cares about the people in it and really doesn't want to destroy the republic (he says as much to an imperial, asks them to promise they aren't going to burn everything down, just help win the war). 

To be with someone who doesn't care about lives or protecting people or being good means either Theron needs to completely change himself as a person, which is not good (seriously, don't change yourself for a lover, kids, it's not worth it) (unless it's to choose to be a better person, I suppose, that's fine) or that relationship is NOT going to last.

I mean, obviously, in the game it will, since any character can romance any available character and they all seem to totally not care how good or bad their significant other is, which honestly should probably be different imho (like, giving these NPCs more agency to make smart relationship choices, like breaking up if you make certain really horrible choices they disagree with for example, would make the game experience more immersive).  But if you put it into perspective, that aspect of the game either just doesn't make sense or is toxic, depending on which of the options (staying together despite being polar opposites vs changing himself so that they aren't polar opposites anymore) you decide is happening.  Since I don't think Theron goes totally evil when romanced to a DS character, I think thankfully it isn't the toxic version, but, that leaves it at "nope, doesn't make sense to me, not one bit."

I fully agree with both of you.

Honestly while he doesn't agree with everything going on in the Republic, he does believe in its core values and wants to protect its people, even if it's against the Republic's own leadership, which is why he left in the first place, because he didn't approve of Saresh (same goes for Aric), and why he approves of both choices regarding her fate.

I could see him willing to give a Pub saboteur/Imp loyalist a chance, especially if romanced, but after Corellia, he should have just walked away if the PC let the Empire bomb the civilians, as he already pleaded with the PC for them to go easy on the Republic and that shows they don't respect his wishes. By that point it has become very clear that the Empire is still the same as before no matter how much Acina claims it's not the same as the old one, all about conquest and domination, without any care for people's lives and well being, and these are values i just can't see Theron agreeing with. In Annihilation, he was willing to never have any relationship with his father if he kept his idea of letting the Empire bomb Duro because he didn't want them to know they could track the Ascendant Spear as that would reduce their chances to blow it up, and Theron strongly disagreed with that, so no matter how much he loves the PC him continuing to support someone who has no problem bombing civilian, would require him to change completely who he is deep down, and imo, doing that is doing the character a great disservice.

I honestly wish our companions would actually stick a bit more to their own morals and values, even if that means they'd turn on us, which would actually give more replayability as we could see different outcomes depending on how our characters behave, but unfortunately players tend to not like their companions turning against them when they righfully disagree. Afaik, Koth and Elara are the only ones who will abandon, or even fully turn on the PC if they do too many things they disagree with.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Goreshaga

[JakRoanin]

I think that the form of an MMO can make it harder to deal with every possible choice, but I do wish SWTOR would do a more KOTOR-esque relationships. 

[Goreshaga]

41 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

I think that the form of an MMO can make it harder to deal with every possible choice, but I do wish SWTOR would do a more KOTOR-esque relationships. 

Probably. But considering he can already be killed or kicked out of the Alliance, him walking away on his own because he disagrees too much with what the PC does wouldn't make much of a difference compared to the two other options in the end.

[cannibithobbal]

18 minutes ago, Goreshaga said:

Probably. But considering he can already be killed or kicked out of the Alliance, him walking away on his own because he disagrees too much with what the PC does wouldn't make much of a difference compared to the two other options in the end.

Totally agreed, as much as I hate that he is killable/dismissable, it means that there are already scenes that exist without him in, so there should absolutely also be the option that he will just leave on his own if he believes that he's backing the wrong side and the PC is not doing things he believes in anymore.  (They'd have to make like one extra scene of him saying he's leaving, but how hard would that be, seriously)

I mean, the government he works for not doing things he believes in anymore is why he left the republic in the first place.  It's just frankly out of character that he will continue to work with someone who does things so far against his values, romanced or not.  Him staying with a DS character who doesn't actually take specific actions he disagrees with, debatable.  But characters who actually make the choice to take those horrible actions?  He should leave.  If he were written fully in character, he WOULD leave.  I mean it's not like it's something they haven't figured out how to program into the game before either, since they did it with Koth already!  There should be a few key actions through the story where if the PC makes certain choices, Theron will say "sorry, but no way am I staying a part of this, I'm out."

Edited June 11, 2023 by cannibithobbal

[JakRoanin]

I don't like any death options because someone will always get hurt about it. That said, all actions should have consequences so if it's OOC for Theron or any NPC who doesn't jive with PC it should matter. 

[cannibithobbal]

Completely agreed.  And if anyone tries to argue that Theron supporting a character who makes DS choices like letting civilians die or murdering of innocents or what have you is in character for him, then frankly they were playing a different game, idk what game it was, but it wasn't the one I was playing lol

[yenzin]

On 6/6/2023 at 10:46 AM, JenaSalton said:

Exactly. Then you could have added drama of the leader of your faction arguing with the PC, telling you not to trust the opposing leader and then after PC answers (either agreeing they can't be trusted, saying that it'll be okay, or some other answer) Theron runs in saying that Malcolm/Acina is making a push for the weapon. 

So PC and their faction's leader makes a concentrates push for the weapon and maybe outside the room meets with Elara/Quinn and have the opportunity to convince them that they really don't want anyone to have the weapon and that if anyone had it would be dangerous for the Republic/Empire (so players have the opportunity to ensure the leader they want to live but still show they tried to not escalate things).

With all PC, Malcolm, and Acina there if you don't convince whoever is outside the opposing faction leader takes the throne before you can stop them. If you did convince the opposing faction, while you're trying to convince the leader of your faction sneaks around and takes the throne.

And either way, someone dies and if it's Malcolm Theron gets to be completely devastated and know it was definitely Malcolm's choices that led him there.

On 6/6/2023 at 12:04 PM, cannibithobbal said:

Oh, and, back to the Theron trying to convince Malcolm to stop on a neutral choice option.... that line from Theron about how he always hated Malcolm for choosing the republic over him would hit so much harder omg

 

There are a lot of great responses I could quote from page 167! In reference to all the Malcome talk and story choices and the scenes playing out with more impact, here is the Imperial start of my Iocath playthrough on my BH for those of you that have never seen that side and are curious. It has lines from Theron that gives additional insight into the relationship he has with his father as well. (Warning that it is a toxic watch. It was very hard for me to play through. I hated that my BH repeatedly talked about killing Malcom in front of Theron.)

The video starts off where I believe the Republic and Imperial Iocath stories split. I say 'believe' because I have not yet done the Republic side. Also, I don't have the complete scene for the Throne and it being sabotaged and injuring my character. So, he walks up the stairs and then wakes up to Lana. Even though Theron was in the room that time. 😒 Yes, I'm very salty about that one. 

Anyway, key timestamps (they are listed more accurately in the video): Spoiler tag here just in case. 

Spoiler

Theron provides some insight into the way Malcom thinks at two and a half minutes.

Malcom disowns Theron at the nine-minute mark.

Then, at twelve minutes I used an alternate line upon Malcom's death. Were the PC given more opportunity to stop Malcom, or try to talk him down but he still chose to go through with his plan to go after the weapon, the response from Theron here, that Malcom was not good at listening, would also hit harder.

At sixteen minutes, I choose to monitor everyone's communications. Theron is likely thinking, 'Great, my job to save you just got a hell of lot harder.' 😫

Seventeen minutes in and Acina gives her condolences to Theron regarding Malcom's death. 

The video ends with the message from Lana expressing her concerns about Theron. 

 

On 6/7/2023 at 11:35 PM, cannibithobbal said:

Ok, ya know that scene on Yavin while the crazy guy is being interrogated on Yavin (republic version) and Theron comes up to talk and then asks how the PC is doing?  Something that has always bugged me in that scene is that after Theron asks that, you can either answer his question OR ask him how he's doing (specifically, how he's handling working with Satele), but it won't let you do both.  I always feel bad completely ignoring his question and not answering it but also wanna ask him how he's doing! (especially on JK, who knows both Theron and Satele well and knows about their strained relationship and wants to help, so of course he would ask about that)  Like, in game this is the first time Theron and the PC chat since kissing on Rishi and admitting they're into each other (assuming you did the romance, obv - I think the convo happens regardless), they should really be able to both ask each other how they're handling things and both get answers.

So, I decided to fix it in post and splice the two dialogues back to back.  And imo this really improves the scene (like, seriously, this should just be an option in the actual game), so I thought I would share.  Here is the link for anyone interested.  Maybe no one else will agree it works 😅, but, I love having both lines in there

(And yes, the transition between lines is a little abrupt, but there are far more jarring dialogue transitions in the actual official dialogue of the game so it honestly doesn't bother me at all lol  this is just going as my official recording version now)

On 6/8/2023 at 1:40 AM, Goreshaga said:

I feel the same about some dialogues. This one (and i think your edit works really well, as that's exactly how i'd see it going between Theron and my own JK), but also the dialogue with Satele at the end of EoO, where you can either tell her you love Theron and want to spend the rest of your life making him happy, or that she's his mother and he needs her in his life, to which she answers she'd love that. I really wish we could choose both because both are something my JK would tell her as yeah she loves Theron and wants to make him happy, but she also knows how much he cares about his mother and that being able to be closer to her would make him happy.

I should probably learn how to edit videos so i could do the same as you with that particular dialogue.

 

More great conversation points on page 168. 🤩

Agreed! Those lines work really well together! 🥰 I wish I had that first line recorded. I don't, which is a shame because I would use both too!

I love splicing dialogue together. I did that on my agent's Chapter 16 video to get Theron's reaction to, 'Quiet. Both of you.' 😂 I've also spliced lines together in my SoR playthrough video. Notably when BH is talking about Theron to Lana in the cantina. And then, during the end scene on Manaan, I spliced extra dialogue in while talking to Lana. Timestamps are in the video. 

There are scenes I wish I could splice together but can't. Like the one on Pub side where Lana admits to trying to bypass Theron's mental defences. I want that on Imp side too. But then, I would also need a 3. Attack! option for my BH. 😅 (my other characters, and especially my JC, are less trigger-happy and not so protective.) Then there are some scenes where the splicing doesn't work well at all. Like in the conversation with Satele in Dreamland. Options 1 and 2 go well together, but not all three because the tone of voice just doesn't work to do so with the third line. 

As a side note, I don't know what my FemJK would choose in that scene if she ever got there, but currently, she doesn't like Master Satele at all. Satele can be subtly passive-aggressive. 🤨

On 6/8/2023 at 1:53 PM, Hadsil said:

Theron in the Revealing outfit looks nice, though of course you want to change the dye. It's top color single color. Choose your favorite color. It's made for female body, but on a male it's fine. The no sleeves look works.

The Bathing Suit is probably ridiculous. On males the pectorals remain exposed. Tenebrae in Echoes of Oblivion is wearing the top as an example. Add in the shorts and sandals, running around the galaxy like that is not for everyone. Male body type 3 can pull it off for the 'barbarian' look.

In a few cut scenes in Eternal Throne onward, if you have Theron in a skin-bear outfit Theron will be wearing a black shirt underneath where the skin would be exposed. In a couple of scenes depending on outfit he wears a bra. The 'female' to 'male ' outfits don't always work properly. It's not all cut scenes, but here and there.

What?! That is awesome! 😲 I would totally put Theron in the Casual Vandal leather jacket because I really like that jacket. I wish there was a version that had a shirt underneath. I may have to try some outfit changes to get a scene recorded with him in that jacket but with the scene's black undershirt on. 

I really like some of the revealing armours. The Jori set seems to be very ancient Greek inspired and makes me think of the Sacred Band of Thebes. 😁

On 6/8/2023 at 3:44 PM, Goreshaga said:

But honestly some of the dialogues when it come to romances in the base game are really not good, i got locked in the romance with Nadia on my first JC just because the other two options were kinda mean or insensitive right after she lost her father, and i hated that even more than anything related to Doc, so when i remade my JC, he ended up being kinda lacking when it came to social skills.

That's odd. I was able to very gently let Nadia down on my playthrough. 🤔 She's sad, but he was definitely gentle with her there.

On 6/8/2023 at 8:36 PM, cannibithobbal said:

Just gonna leave this here.

I screamed so loud in excitement that my boyfriend ran upstairs thinking something was wrong but no, it was just me getting this recorded. 🤣🤣🤣

✨ YES!!!! Thank you for sharing!! 💖✨

7 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

So, I saw a YouTube video essay on why Theron would (and if he should) remain with a Republic saboteur or a DS Imp. And I have to admit it does confuse me, why would he stay with characters opposed to his core belief system? Now, I don't think he's all that politically attached to the Republic itself, but he does share the cultural morality of it. So, I kinda think he should have gotten out-of-Dodge if PC goes tailor or any DS V PC. Thoughts?

I agree with the other responses to this as well. Honestly, Theron being in a serious relationship with a hard-core Imperial doesn't make sense to me either. There are all sorts of lines he says in the game that indicates he does not agree with the way the Imperials do things. Here is one, in fact. It's subtle, and can overlooked as a snarky quip, but he definitely disproves. (I had to go and get that line recorded. I always choose the first option.)

Then there is the Imperial side of Iocath with a character that sided with the Imperials. Theron is right there while Acina, Lana, and the PC casually talk about killing Malcom. I would never, ever, talk so heartlessly about killing the parent of someone I love. Even if that person states they are not close with said parent. I wouldn't do it. It's cold and beyond-the-pale cruel. Yet, Theron is forced to listen to all of it. Siding with the Imperials during Iocath is definitely something I would have never done had I known what would happen. 

I can see Theron being with a double-agent IA. I can definitely see him being with a LS/Neutral Bounty Hunter. No matter how much I try to wrap my mind around it, I cannot imagine him with a Sith of any kind. Not even a LS one. Theron is inherently such a kind person, and if he had more agency in the game, then he definitely would not stay with a blatant DS character. His moral compass is only so flexable.

However, I don't think Theron will ever leave such a character's side because the hate reaction and thirst for his blood 🗡️ 🩸 would explode all over the forums and I don't think BW wants to risk that. After all, spirits forbid characters should have a mind of their own or disagree with the player's choices. 🙄

Edited June 12, 2023 by yenzin
moved a box down. added sentences. some edits.

[cannibithobbal]

3 hours ago, yenzin said:

 

There are a lot of great responses I could quote from page 167! In reference to all the Malcome talk and story choices and the scenes playing out with more impact, here is the Imperial start of my Iocath playthrough on my BH for those of you that have never seen that side and are curious. It has lines from Theron that gives additional insight into the relationship he has with his father as well. (Warning that it is a toxic watch. It was very hard for me to play through. I hated that my BH repeatedly talked about killing Malcom in front of Theron.)

The video starts off where I believe the Republic and Imperial Iocath stories split. I say 'believe' because I have not yet done the Republic side. Also, I don't have the complete scene for the Throne and it being sabotaged and injuring my character. So, he walks up the stairs and then wakes up to Lana. Even though Theron was in the room that time. 😒 Yes, I'm very salty about that one. 

Anyway, key timestamps (they are listed more accurately in the video): Spoiler tag here just in case. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Theron provides some insight into the way Malcom thinks at two and a half minutes.

Malcom disowns Theron at the nine-minute mark.

Then, at twelve minutes I used an alternate line upon Malcom's death. Were the PC given more opportunity to stop Malcom, or try to talk him down but he still chose to go through with his plan to go after the weapon, the response from Theron here, that Malcom was not good at listening, would also hit harder.

At sixteen minutes, I choose to monitor everyone's communications. Theron is likely thinking, 'Great, my job to save you just got a hell of lot harder.' 😫

Seventeen minutes in and Acina gives her condolences to Theron regarding Malcom's death. 

The video ends with the message from Lana expressing her concerns about Theron. 

 

wow, you were not wrong, that was so hard to watch 😥  but ty for sharing so that I never ever ever ever have to play it myself.  There really is some good insight to how and why Theron and Malcolm's relationship is strained (makes total sense it's because Theron left the republic to join the alliance, don't it, shoulda clocked that) so I'm glad to have SEEN it, but man, it really is..... too hard to watch.  Just, Theron choosing to back the empire and being willing to shoot at Malcolm, and the talking about killing Malcolm right in front of him, it all really doesn't sit well, it's hard.

also omg, Theron saying "your dreams are almost as bad as mine" 😥😥😥 bb (he does NOT say that on republic)

Having played the republic side 3 times now, can confirm that basically everything NOT to do with talking about the republic or the empire (like, the scene with the superweapon corpse, stuff about the traitor, etc) is pretty much identical.  As a nice palette cleanser, if anyone is interested, here's my agent's video of Iokath (starting around the same place - and I trimmed out the Tyth bit, which is an awkward cut but it's fiiiine), imperial character choosing republic.  I know other people have run this version but there it is regardless.   The actual republic choosing republic version is almost exactly the same, just a few lines changed to reflect the Commander being republic (and my Jedi did not accuse Malcolm to his face lol, I LOVE that my agent did though).

3 hours ago, yenzin said:

I love splicing dialogue together. I did that on my agent's Chapter 16 video to get Theron's reaction to, 'Quiet. Both of you.' 😂 I've also spliced lines together in my SoR playthrough video. Notably when BH is talking about Theron to Lana in the cantina. And then, during the end scene on Manaan, I spliced extra dialogue in while talking to Lana. Timestamps are in the video. 

There are scenes I wish I could splice together but can't. Like the one on Pub side where Lana admits to trying to bypass Theron's mental defences. I want that on Imp side too. But then, I would also need a 3. Attack! option for my BH. 😅 (my other characters, and especially my JC, are less trigger-happy and not so protective.) Then there are some scenes where the splicing doesn't work well at all. Like in the conversation with Satele in Dreamland. Options 1 and 2 go well together, but not all three because the tone of voice just doesn't work to do so with the third line.

ooh those are all really good splices too (other than the one you said doesn't work, because OMG that third option to Satele is so mean 😥), I'm actually sad I didn't do the same thing for those lines talking to Lana in the cantina, that one works especially well (I chose only the "not bad to look at", of course)

3 hours ago, yenzin said:

I agree with the other responses to this as well. Honestly, Theron being in a serious relationship with a hard-core Imperial doesn't make sense to me either. There are all sorts of lines he says in the game that indicates he does not agree with the way the Imperials do things. Here is one, in fact. It's subtle, and can overlooked as a snarky quip, but he definitely disproves. (I had to go and get that line recorded. I always choose the first option.)

Then there is the Imperial side of Iocath with a character that sided with the Imperials. Theron is right there while Acina, Lana, and the PC casually talk about killing Malcom. I would never, ever, talk so heartlessly about killing the parent of someone I love. Even if that person states they are not close with said parent. I wouldn't do it. It's cold and beyond-the-pale cruel. Yet, Theron is forced to listen to all of it. Siding with the Imperials during Iocath is definitely something I would have never done had I known what would happen. 

I can see Theron being with a double-agent IA. I can definitely see him being with a LS/Neutral Bounty Hunter. No matter how much I try to wrap my mind around it, I cannot imagine him with a Sith of any kind. Not even a LS one. Theron is inherently such a kind person, and if he had more agency in the game, then he definitely would not stay with a blatant DS character. His moral compass is only so flexable.

Yeah, there are a LOT of lines where Theron either blatantly or subtly or passive aggressively makes it clear he does not approve of imperial methods and lots of bad actions.  That one you linked, definitely him disapproving, that was totally a dig.

The Iokath thing is just...... yeah, it's so wrong on so many levels honestly, like it's bad enough if Theron is just an ally but when romanced it makes it really just... toxic.  For all the reasons you said.

I personally see no problem with Theron being with a LS sith, though, I mean LS SW storyline is about the SW choosing to turn to the light side and planning to change the sith/empire from the inside to make it better (I still am not sure about MY sith warrior with him, still deciding lol, but, in general I see no problem), not too dissimilar in theme to double agent IA.  idk about LS inquisitor though, as my inquisitor is almost entirely dark (and she is getting nowhere near Theron's beautiful squishy heart, because I would never do that to him, and he definitely wouldn't want her anyway 😅)

He IS such a kind person, and it's so sad that the game takes away his relationship agency to make him stay with a DS character that there is no way he would ever be with if he actually got to choose it. 🥺

I agree you are right though, they would never actually change the game to make him walk out on bad relationships (if that was gonna happen, it would have happened ages ago), but, alas.  we will just do our part and only pair him with non evil characters, yes?

Edited June 12, 2023 by cannibithobbal
forgot link lol

[eabevella]

Kind of wish we have the KOTOR2 companion system where our player character can affect the companion's moral and everything. They did good job giving all companions a LS and DS version fitting their basic personality traits.

Would be interesting if there's a DS corrupted Theron for the DS players *shrug*

[Goreshaga]

9 hours ago, yenzin said:

There are a lot of great responses I could quote from page 167! In reference to all the Malcome talk and story choices and the scenes playing out with more impact, here is the Imperial start of my Iocath playthrough on my BH for those of you that have never seen that side and are curious. It has lines from Theron that gives additional insight into the relationship he has with his father as well. (Warning that it is a toxic watch. It was very hard for me to play through. I hated that my BH repeatedly talked about killing Malcom in front of Theron.)

Ouch, only did it on a non Theronmancer and it was already not pleasant, but with a Theronmancer, it hits hard, and not really in a good way. Thanks for posting though, that way i won't have to do it myself.

9 hours ago, yenzin said:

Then there are some scenes where the splicing doesn't work well at all. Like in the conversation with Satele in Dreamland. Options 1 and 2 go well together, but not all three because the tone of voice just doesn't work to do so with the third line. 

Yeah option 1 and 2 work very well together, option 3 sounds quite mean tbh, he's not entirely wrong but that's a bit savage.

9 hours ago, yenzin said:

As a side note, I don't know what my FemJK would choose in that scene if she ever got there, but currently, she doesn't like Master Satele at all. Satele can be subtly passive-aggressive. 🤨

Oh never heard that line before, but i always picked the "Then it wasn't Bengel Morr" option on my F JK. That being said, Satele isn't entirely wrong there as the JK was being a bit arrogant, behaving as if because she can't sense something then it doesn't exist.

9 hours ago, yenzin said:

That's odd. I was able to very gently let Nadia down on my playthrough. 🤔 She's sad, but he was definitely gentle with her there.

Hm, my first JC playthrough was like 6 or 7 years ago, so i may misremember some things, it is possible i messed up in that convo and it came back to haunt (wasn't what i originally wrote but for some reason the forum would not allow it...) me in the following one where i then had no option to turn her down gently and the following one where all i had were just 3 [flirt] options.

Next JC was a bit later, and i haven't played one through the class story in a few years, but i think i picked this one and it didn't sound that nice, but there it's probably more of a french vs english VA difference, which is kinda weird as usually french M JC sounds sweeter than the english one and has a somewhat cuter voice (he does sound younger too).

9 hours ago, yenzin said:

However, I don't think Theron will ever leave such a character's side because the hate reaction and thirst for his blood 🗡️ 🩸 would explode all over the forums and I don't think BW wants to risk that. After all, spirits forbid characters should have a mind of their own or disagree with the player's choices. 🙄

He's already killable, so it's not entirely impossible they'd still make him leave is he ends up disagreeing too much... Also, people who disliked him prbably killed him already and would never see him turn against them, unless they skipped, but yeah we've seen already how badly some players react when a companion has a mind of their own and doesn't worship the PC no matter what they do...

[yenzin]

7 hours ago, cannibithobbal said:

wow, you were not wrong, that was so hard to watch 😥  but ty for sharing so that I never ever ever ever have to play it myself.  There really is some good insight to how and why Theron and Malcolm's relationship is strained (makes total sense it's because Theron left the republic to join the alliance, don't it, shoulda clocked that) so I'm glad to have SEEN it, but man, it really is..... too hard to watch.  Just, Theron choosing to back the empire and being willing to shoot at Malcolm, and the talking about killing Malcolm right in front of him, it all really doesn't sit well, it's hard.

also omg, Theron saying "your dreams are almost as bad as mine" 😥😥😥 bb (he does NOT say that on republic)

Having played the republic side 3 times now, can confirm that basically everything NOT to do with talking about the republic or the empire (like, the scene with the superweapon corpse, stuff about the traitor, etc) is pretty much identical.  As a nice palette cleanser, if anyone is interested, here's my agent's video of Iokath (starting around the same place - and I trimmed out the Tyth bit, which is an awkward cut but it's fiiiine), imperial character choosing republic.  I know other people have run this version but there it is regardless.   The actual republic choosing republic version is almost exactly the same, just a few lines changed to reflect the Commander being republic (and my Jedi did not accuse Malcolm to his face lol, I LOVE that my agent did though).

ooh those are all really good splices too (other than the one you said doesn't work, because OMG that third option to Satele is so mean 😥), I'm actually sad I didn't do the same thing for those lines talking to Lana in the cantina, that one works especially well (I chose only the "not bad to look at", of course)

Yeah, there are a LOT of lines where Theron either blatantly or subtly or passive aggressively makes it clear he does not approve of imperial methods and lots of bad actions.  That one you linked, definitely him disapproving, that was totally a dig.

The Iokath thing is just...... yeah, it's so wrong on so many levels honestly, like it's bad enough if Theron is just an ally but when romanced it makes it really just... toxic.  For all the reasons you said.

I personally see no problem with Theron being with a LS sith, though, I mean LS SW storyline is about the SW choosing to turn to the light side and planning to change the sith/empire from the inside to make it better (I still am not sure about MY sith warrior with him, still deciding lol, but, in general I see no problem), not too dissimilar in theme to double agent IA.  idk about LS inquisitor though, as my inquisitor is almost entirely dark (and she is getting nowhere near Theron's beautiful squishy heart, because I would never do that to him, and he definitely wouldn't want her anyway 😅)

He IS such a kind person, and it's so sad that the game takes away his relationship agency to make him stay with a DS character that there is no way he would ever be with if he actually got to choose it. 🥺

I agree you are right though, they would never actually change the game to make him walk out on bad relationships (if that was gonna happen, it would have happened ages ago), but, alas.  we will just do our part and only pair him with non evil characters, yes?

I definitely would have handled the Imperial side better if there was less Theron in it. Seriously. If my BH could have had the option to turn to Theron and say, "I need to talk with Lana and Acina alone, please wait here or in the other room," I would have been quite happy. Which is strange, as I always want more Theron in everything, but in this case, having less of him would have worked very well for me. After all, I understand that stopping Malcom is important, but talking about doing so in front of Theron is not necessary. And then, of course, his not being there for the conversations could have been optional so the players that still wanted him in the room, could have had him there.

Thank you for linking the Republic version. I needed that. 😍 Out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to have the version of the conversation at the end of Chapter 16 in which Senya and Arcann's ship isn't shot at, would you? 😉 I keep wanting to go and get it, but time is a factor and I keep not being able to. Asking is quicker. 😁

Admittedly, I have not played a Sith character in this game. Thus, my view of them is based entirely on what I currently know of them. That's very interesting that SW can choose to want to change the Sith Empire from the inside. If that's the case, then I may be able to imagine Theron with a SW. 🤔 Definitely not mine though, as I fully intend to play him dark and loyal to the Emperor. He won't kill Zakuul's civilians, but any others? Yeh, they are going to be fair game. Definitely keeping him far away from Theron. 😅

3 hours ago, eabevella said:

Kind of wish we have the KOTOR2 companion system where our player character can affect the companion's moral and everything. They did good job giving all companions a LS and DS version fitting their basic personality traits.

Would be interesting if there's a DS corrupted Theron for the DS players *shrug*

I keep thinking to myself that I need to play that game. If nothing else, then for Carth. I simply love Raphael Sbarge's voice acting. 💖

Thus, having not played it, I cannot comment too heavily, but a system in which the companions can be swayed to one side or the other, sounds very interesting. 

32 minutes ago, Goreshaga said:

Yeah option 1 and 2 work very well together, option 3 sounds quite mean tbh, he's not entirely wrong but that's a bit savage.

Agreed, I love maleBH's voice. It is so firm, deep, and hard in several places and it really works. In Dreamland with Satele, the line sounds extra brutal as a result. I'm very curious what that line sounds like when delivered by other characters. Going to have to try that out line on my JC and agent too, even though it is not something they would say to her.

41 minutes ago, Goreshaga said:

Hm, my first JC playthrough was like 6 or 7 years ago, so i may misremember some things, it is possible i messed up in that convo and it came back to haunt (wasn't what i originally wrote but for some reason the forum would not allow it...) me in the following one where i then had no option to turn her down gently and the following one where all i had were just 3 [flirt] options.

Ahh! I completely understand what you are talking about. It was like that in my BH playthrough with Mako. I got locked into the romance somehow (courting companion gifts will trigger a romance, turns out) and the only way out was a completely brutal third dialogue line which I wouldn't take. It all snowballed until I got to a conversation where there were only three options that were essentially all flirts. 

[cannibithobbal]

7 minutes ago, yenzin said:

I definitely would have handled the Imperial side better if there was less Theron in it. Seriously. If my BH could have had the option to turn to Theron and say, "I need to talk with Lana and Acina alone, please wait here or in the other room," I would have been quite happy. Which is strange, as I always want more Theron in everything, but in this case, having less of him would have worked very well for me. After all, I understand that stopping Malcom is important, but talking about doing so in front of Theron is not necessary. And then, of course, his not being there for the conversations could have been optional so the players that still wanted him in the room, could have had him there.

I agree, if you choose to go after his father, there really needs to at the very LEAST be the option to ask Theron if he wants to be involved.  Like, "I know this is going to be hard for you, Theron, we can do it without you".  I mean, seriously.  One of my favorite things about Iokath IS that there is so much Theron in it, he's your companion the entire time and I LOVE IT.  But if you choose imperial, yeaaaaah.  It's just cruel to have him there, genuinely.

10 minutes ago, yenzin said:

Thank you for linking the Republic version. I needed that. 😍 Out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to have the version of the conversation at the end of Chapter 16 in which Senya and Arcann's ship isn't shot at, would you? 😉 I keep wanting to go and get it, but time is a factor and I keep not being able to. Asking is quicker. 😁

Most welcome, and yes absolutely I do 😁  Here is Chapter 16 on agent where he refuses to shoot at them.  The scene is honsestly much shorter haha way less arguing.  And no agent in the dog house 😉  I have my agent's ENTIRE playthrough uploaded now (just finished uploads yesterday) so I can get pretty much any link for it easily

4 hours ago, eabevella said:

Kind of wish we have the KOTOR2 companion system where our player character can affect the companion's moral and everything. They did good job giving all companions a LS and DS version fitting their basic personality traits.

Would be interesting if there's a DS corrupted Theron for the DS players *shrug*

idk if I would want to see a DS corrupted Theron, but...... also maybe hmmm would definitely be interesting, would at least make him staying with a DS character make more sense even if it's more dark and toxic that he'd go evil after joining up with an evil character.  It would be less toxic if not romanced, but him going evil for love idk if I could stomach personally.  I'd definitely prefer if he was just written consistently in character when around DS characters instead of "yeah sure, I'll betray all my values and stay with you even though I've never done that for literally anyone else in the past."

[Goreshaga]

17 minutes ago, yenzin said:

Agreed, I love maleBH's voice. It is so firm, deep, and hard in several places and it really works. In Dreamland with Satele, the line sounds extra brutal as a result. I'm very curious what that line sounds like when delivered by other characters. Going to have to try that out line on my JC and agent too, even though it is not something they would say to her

I'm have a bit of mixed feeling about M BH voice in english, there are moments, like in that scene with Satele, where he really does a good job, and some others where he sounds too much like he's just reading his lines.

That being said, i have moments, where i also have issues with the french VAs delivery. There is one scene on Rishi where F JK is waaaay too flirty with Theron, i know it's a [flirt], and the one flirt you can't miss if you want to see the rest of the relationship on Yavin, but it's way too much. There's another one on Tython where she's reporting to Satele and she's shouting her report at her for no reason (there the english VA is a lot better), dunno what direction they're given sometimes but the tone if just off, luckily it's not too often, but it's why i want to record both in english and in french.

23 minutes ago, yenzin said:

Ahh! I completely understand what you are talking about. It was like that in my BH playthrough with Mako. I got locked into the romance somehow (courting companion gifts will trigger a romance, turns out) and the only way out was a completely brutal third dialogue line which I wouldn't take. It all snowballed until I got to a conversation where there were only three options that were essentially all flirts.

Oh, didn't know Mako could be like that too as the only M BH i did the whole story with romanced her to see how the romance was, but i'm not a fan of the romance tbh, she feels way too much like a little sister, so i'll have to be careful with my next M BH i guess.

[Goreshaga]

10 minutes ago, cannibithobbal said:

Most welcome, and yes absolutely I do 😁  Here is Chapter 16 on agent where he refuses to shoot at them.  The scene is honsestly much shorter haha way less arguing.  And no agent in the dog house 😉  I have my agent's ENTIRE playthrough uploaded now (just finished uploads yesterday) so I can get pretty much any link for it easily

Oh i made a Twi'lek IA using the looks i had on a SI one i had a long time ago, and except mine has tatoos and scars, he looks like yours, same face and skin + eye colors 🤣

I just need to find a good look for him now,.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Goreshaga

[cannibithobbal]

1 minute ago, Goreshaga said:

I'm have a bit of mixed feeling about M BH voice in english, there are moments, like in that scene with Satele, where he really does a good job, and some others where he sounds too much like he's just reading his lines.

That being said, i have moments, where i also have issues with the french VAs delivery. There is one scene on Rishi where F JK is waaaay too flirty with Theron, i know it's a [flirt], and the one flirt you can't miss if you want to see the rest of the relationship on Yavin, but it's way too much. There's another one on Tython where she's reporting to Satele and she's shouting her report at her for no reason (there the english VA is a lot better), dunno what direction they're given sometimes but the tone if just off, luckily it's not too often, but it's why i want to record both in english and in french.

I feel this, honestly.  Like, even my favorite PC VAs all have at least some lines where I just won't ever choose those because I don't like how they deliver them (like mJK with the "I know you have abandonment issues" line!)  Obviously I don't have another language option to play in, but I always just choose different lines in those places.

Just now, Goreshaga said:

Oh i made a Twi'lek IA using the looks i had on a SI one i had a long time ago, and except mine has tatoos he looks just like yours, same skin and eye colors 🤣

omg 🤣  ngl, I took ages testing every single "face" option with the voice and that one fit his voice perfectly for me and no others did so it was the only choice I liked.  The rest I wasn't actually sure on until I got playing, I'd never made a twi'lek without markings before and I usually like more brightly colored skin on them -- he was almost gonna be red.  (eye color was always purple though, every single twi'lek I make has purple haha)  But I wouldn't change a thing about him now, I love him, imo he might honestly be my prettiest character.

[Goreshaga]

1 hour ago, cannibithobbal said:

I feel this, honestly.  Like, even my favorite PC VAs all have at least some lines where I just won't ever choose those because I don't like how they deliver them (like mJK with the "I know you have abandonment issues" line!)  Obviously I don't have another language option to play in, but I always just choose different lines in those places.

Yeah, i usually do the same, but i just have to grit my teeth for my JK's [flirt] with Theron on Rishi in french, as if i don't take that last flirt, then i'll not have the follow-up on Yavin.

1 hour ago, cannibithobbal said:

omg 🤣  ngl, I took ages testing every single "face" option with the voice and that one fit his voice perfectly for me and no others did so it was the only choice I liked.  The rest I wasn't actually sure on until I got playing, I'd never made a twi'lek without markings before and I usually like more brightly colored skin on them -- he was almost gonna be red.  (eye color was always purple though, every single twi'lek I make has purple haha)  But I wouldn't change a thing about him now, I love him, imo he might honestly be my prettiest character

Also did quite a lot of testing when i made the original one who was a SI, ended up on the yellow skin because that's the one that looked the best with the DS corruption (where he ended up all white because he looked a bit too nice with the yellow skin), i quite like how that SI looked like, but i already have a M PB SI as my main SI who i really like, and didn't have any M IA that was satisfying, i wanted Zeltron, but we may never get the species so after a bit of thinking Twi'lek seemed to be the best option after Human to be able to blend in pretty much everywhere, and i could also reuse that look i liked to make into my main IA, happy i can actually use the real skin color though instead of the DS corruption one, as it's quite usefull to look nice if you have to get people to trust you, though he went quite heavily on the face tatoos.

Lol, both my Twi'lek (my F Smuggler and now my M IA have purple eyes too, not the same shade though, but i think it looks good and afaik, they're the only species with that eye color, so may as well use it)

Edited June 12, 2023 by Goreshaga

[eabevella]

@yenzin

You can't affect companion's moral alignment in KOTOR1 but Carth is 10/10 I love him. That's why I always play fem Revan.

In KOTOR2 your companion's alignment is affected by your own alignment and your influence to them. So if you are dark side and have high influence with you companion, you can twist even the most gentle companion into the most rage filled murderer. What makes it brilliant is all companions have their own wound and trauma due to the war, so it's up to our action to either help them overcome it or embrace their darkness.

KOTOR2 writing is peak SW writing to me I highly recommend it.

@cannibithobbal

With good writing they could pull off Theron fall to the dark side. The potential is all there: the Republic sucks during kotxx. Satele left him, again, on Odessen. It could all lead to a DS player who have high influence with him swaying him to the point that he ends up believe the DS player's ideal. Their relationship can be great: Theron finally finds someone who sees his importance, he works great with the DS player and isn't bothered by his toxic parents anymore - they don't deserve him anyway.

But we don't have KOTOR writing in SWTOR so sadly that isn't an option.

[cannibithobbal]

7 minutes ago, Goreshaga said:

Yeah, i usually do the same, but i just have to grit my teeth for my JK's [flirt] with Theron on Rishi in french, as if i don't take that last flirt, then i'll not have the follow-up on Yavin.

ugh yeah, that is definitely frustrating!  There are a few not so great Theron flirts just by virtue of the flirt line itself imo, but thankfully all those ones CAN be skipped without a problem, I haven't had one fortunately that I thought just had terrible delivery on one of my characters other than the aforementioned "abandonment issues" one which thankfully has 2 alternate options.

10 minutes ago, Goreshaga said:

Also did quite a lot of testing when i made the original one who was a SI, ended up on the yellow skin because that's the one that looked the best with the DS corruption (where he ended up all white because he looked a bit too nice with the yellow skin), i quite like how that SI looked like, but i already have a M PB SI as my main SI who i really like, and didn't have any M IA that was satisfying, i wanted Zeltron, but we may never get the species so after a bit of thinking Twi'lek seemed to be the best option after Human to be able to blend in pretty much everywhere, and i could also reuse that look i liked to make into my main IA, happy i can actually use the real skin color though instead of the DS corruption one, as it's quite usefull to look nice if you have to get people to trust you.

Lol, both my Twi'lek (my F Smuggler and now my M IA have purple eyes too, not the same shade though, but i think it looks good and afaik, they're the only species with that eye color, so may as well use it)

I would love to see a DS corrupted twi'lek, I have never actually seen one!  If you have pics of yours, feel free to sharesies.

I also love twi'lek as agent for the "blend in" aspect!  I admit I chose twi'lek just because I knew I was gonna romance him with Theron and in my game I only romance twi'leks with Theron 😅 (it started on accident but I kept it going on purpose lmao), but I really love that it becomes canon with the character that he was chosen for intelligence because of the "no one would suspect an alien of being imperial intelligence" and twi'leks are very common so totally makes sense he can blend in anywhere. ❤️  Also I think because it's practically an in-universe meme that twi'leks are all slaves, a lot of people (especially in the empire) will underestimate a twi'lek which is really advantageous for a spy.

I have 5 twi'leks and they all have purple eyes, and I also use 2 different shades. (I think there are actually 3 different purple shades available?)  I am obsessed with purple eyes, I just love them, so yeah, like you say, twi'leks actually have the option so you better believe I'm gonna use it every time! 😍

2 minutes ago, eabevella said:

With good writing they could pull off Theron fall to the dark side. The potential is all there: the Republic sucks during kotxx. Satele left him, again, on Odessen. It could all lead to a DS player who have high influence with him swaying him to the point that he ends up believe the DS player's ideal. Their relationship can be great: Theron finally finds someone who sees his importance, he works great with the DS player and isn't bothered by his toxic parents anymore - they don't deserve him anyway.

But we don't have KOTOR writing in SWTOR so sadly that isn't an option.

Ok, you make a solid argument, I could see that working, as long as the writing was handled well.  It would make me sad that Theron could fall to the dark side but idk, it could probably hurt me in the right way if it was done right. 🥺  Like, as long as it's handled slowly over time and not like a sudden villain turn like he pretends to make on Umbara only for real  (ngl, first time playing through Crisis on Umbara I should have known it was a fake out immediately but I genuinely thought the writers just did him real dirty because I have been burned too many times recently with sudden stupid OOC villain turns happening in other tv series/movies lol)

But yeah, would never happen in this game.  And honestly, I wouldn't necessarily trust the writers of this game to handle that well anyway even if they tried it (given the current state of Theron being with DS characters just being plain out of character and they don't care lol)