Why Was Oricon Never Made Solo-Friendly?

[bdatt]

Ops isn't a good way to experience the story, you don't get to pick your own choice if you lose the roll.

 

None of the cutscenes within the operation have any dialog choices. They're usually just bosses taunting you and stuff. Some good taunting though.

[DieAlteHexe]

I know my class, thank you very much. I've been a member of this game for 5 years, PvP daily and honestly can say that I know my classes. But my skill has nothing to do with the reason why I don't do OPS, it's mainly the people that have been rather... unwelcoming, let's put it like that, the first time I tried out a raid several years ago. I operate by the lines of "got burned once don't want it twice" so I simply don't touch it anymore. But my skill or knowing my class has nothing to do with it, so don't go presuming you know what the reason is.

 

T'was a strawman, along with "whining". Let it roll off your back, it's a commonly used one. We must suck at our class(es) if we don't want to raid/OPs etc.

 

(I do suck but I'm not representative, most folks are very familiar with their classes and just aren't interested in the content presented that way which seems to make some of those who are either totally confused or angry. Go figure.)

[Slowpokeking]

None of the cutscenes within the operation have any dialog choices. They're usually just bosses taunting you and stuff. Some good taunting though.

 

Exactly, there was little freedom for them to write story in the ops. Even if there were choices you can't pick them unless you win the roll. You also had to wait for group/endure possible drama/wait for afk/DC/find replacement whatever. Do you like it when you simply wanted to enjoy the story?

 

In solo operation, you got tons of choices in dialog to make. Just like the Revan ending.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Slowpokeking

[bdatt]

I think the other ops needs to have solo version as well. Especially SnV otherwise it would confuse you when they said you struck down Styrak.

 

They have flags in the intro to Oricon based on whether you've completed SnV. If you haven't, the dialog is something like "when the Republic struck down Styrak" not "when you struck down Styrak."

[Ylliarus]

T'was a strawman, along with "whining". Let it roll off your back, it's a commonly used one. We must suck at our class(es) if we don't want to raid/OPs etc.

 

(I do suck but I'm not representative, most folks are very familiar with their classes and just aren't interested in the content presented that way which seems to make some of those who are either totally confused or angry. Go figure.)

 

I admit I am very bad at tanking so I don't want to annoy other players by still rolling a tank. It's why I stick to healers and dps as that's what I am good at. I'm not claiming I am in any top of players rolling healers or dps, but I definitely know my classes. But naturally a raider will never believe that because I don't do OPS so I must suck... very narrow-minded way of thinking

[Slowpokeking]

They have flags in the intro to Oricon based on whether you've completed SnV. If you haven't, the dialog is something like "when the Republic struck down Styrak" not "when you struck down Styrak."

 

They added it later, there was no such thing when Oricon had come out.

[Mubrak]

How can Seeker Droid be solo'ed? Wouldn't you get insta killed while carrying the "batteries" when the big add spawns?

 

No dots, no hots, no getting hit.

Set your companion to tank and AOE taunt when the adds spawn while you carry a battery.

[DieAlteHexe]

I admit I am very bad at tanking so I don't want to annoy other players by still rolling a tank. It's why I stick to healers and dps as that's what I am good at. I'm not claiming I am in any top of players rolling healers or dps, but I definitely know my classes. But naturally a raider will never believe that because I don't do OPS so I must suck... very narrow-minded way of thinking

 

Aye, so it is. Been like this since day one. Some raiders just cannot understand that other folks enjoy a different playstyle and get off on making fun of them.

 

As for tanking...I couldn't tank my way out of a wet paper bag but I'm pretty good with most of the DPS classes and healing classes. My issue is that I have to /afk often and I'm not going to expect anyone to tolerate that.

[DarthDymond]

Y'all are hurting Section X's feelings, forgetting it was a big non-Ops part of the Dread Masters storyline before Oricon.

[Ylliarus]

What if they added a solo mode for OP's that gave NO rewards (no loot, no CXP, no XP, etc.), but allowed players to experience the story?

 

Would that be an acceptable compromise?

 

If it also allowed story progression then sure, but I don't want all operations to be soloable. I am only talking about the 2 Oricon ones, those are the ones that are putting up a wall from progressing further in the story. And not only for me, I clearly see from this thread it's 50/50, half the people are for and the other against. Although I still don't see why the people against are against as it completely does not affect them in any way if there is a solo alternative for Oricon. Somehow I didn't hear this amount of moaning and groaning when the devs did it in Shadow of Revan...

[Ylliarus]

Aye, so it is. Been like this since day one. Some raiders just cannot understand that other folks enjoy a different playstyle and get off on making fun of them.

 

As for tanking...I couldn't tank my way out of a wet paper bag but I'm pretty good with most of the DPS classes and healing classes. My issue is that I have to /afk often and I'm not going to expect anyone to tolerate that.

 

Having a cat that can sometimes be a monster but a cute little adorable one... I get the afk part the raiders expect me to sit chained to my desk and chair when doing an operation which is a part of the pressure on one's shoulders I am talking about. If I hear for example claws on the curtains I have to go, raid or not. And in general I afk a lot as well to do some other stuff while gaming.

 

But I don't expect a raider to understand as seemingly I can't have a life beyond raiding in SWTOR.

 

I also think it's absurd that ops players think their way of playing is the right one. I am not going to quote the definition of an mmo from wikipedia a fourth time but if I read "SWTOR is an MMO" again I will.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Slowpokeking]

Aye, so it is. Been like this since day one. Some raiders just cannot understand that other folks enjoy a different playstyle and get off on making fun of them.

 

As for tanking...I couldn't tank my way out of a wet paper bag but I'm pretty good with most of the DPS classes and healing classes. My issue is that I have to /afk often and I'm not going to expect anyone to tolerate that.

 

And ops was a bad way to enjoy a story.

[MissilyMilcasia]

It was never made solo friendly for the plain and simple reason that the ENTIRE Dread Masters storyline (with some exception to Section X but not really since its still fairly separate) occurred in operations. Yavin and TOS was soloable because that was an extension of the main player story. Why if you played solo would you have done the lead in to the dread masters in EC, TFB, and SV?

 

Also, Dread Fortress and Palace and the shortest two operations by a long stretch. They can be done in under an hour easy. No wipes on anything takes about 45 min each. The only mechanics I can think of in storymode that are one shot is Brontes clockwork phase if you miss the first one (which I think now has a DPS check that is nonexistent) and Tyrans simplification pattern (which is a generic border pattern). If you really want to do the story, they are not hard to do. It's not like there is any mechanic in there that is like the Underlurker cross or even the Aviela and Esne coordination checks. I get people hate group content but this is an MMO, and interacting with others is not a dirty word. There is a bolster, there is literally no reason anyone shouldn't be able to walk in to SM and get a clear.

 

Bioware so does not have the resources. They can barely churn out content at the snail's pace were going now. And that content they do churn out often is filled with bugs galore or glaring issues. And you want them to go back to content that was released nearly FOUR years ago, invest time in making sure everyone has access to a story plot that doesn't even make any sense with the current plot of things, and change the way it works?

[Ylliarus]

It was never made solo friendly for the plain and simple reason that the ENTIRE Dread Masters storyline (with some exception to Section X but not really since its still fairly separate) occurred in operations. Yavin and TOS was soloable because that was an extension of the main player story. Why if you played solo would you have done the lead in to the dread masters in EC, TFB, and SV?

 

Also, Dread Fortress and Palace and the shortest two operations by a long stretch. They can be done in under an hour easy. No wipes on anything takes about 45 min each. The only mechanics I can think of in storymode that are one shot is Brontes clockwork phase if you miss the first one (which I think now has a DPS check that is nonexistent) and Tyrans simplification pattern (which is a generic border pattern). If you really want to do the story, they are not hard to do. It's not like there is any mechanic in there that is like the Underlurker cross or even the Aviela and Esne coordination checks. I get people hate group content but this is an MMO, and interacting with others is not a dirty word. There is a bolster, there is literally no reason anyone shouldn't be able to walk in to SM and get a clear.

 

Bioware so does not have the resources. They can barely churn out content at the snail's pace were going now. And that content they do churn out often is filled with bugs galore or glaring issues. And you want them to go back to content that was released nearly FOUR years ago, invest time in making sure everyone has access to a story plot that doesn't even make any sense with the current plot of things, and change the way it works?

 

Then Oricon shouldn't have been presented in the story format it was. It was presented as a story on its own and therefore deserves to have a beginning and an end for every player, raider as well as non-raider.

 

Also, the lack of resources didn't stop Bioware from going back and making new cutscenes for the start of each class story, or did we conveniently forget that?

[Slowpokeking]

It was never made solo friendly for the plain and simple reason that the ENTIRE Dread Masters storyline (with some exception to Section X but not really since its still fairly separate) occurred in operations. Yavin and TOS was soloable because that was an extension of the main player story. Why if you played solo would you have done the lead in to the dread masters in EC, TFB, and SV?

 

Also, Dread Fortress and Palace and the shortest two operations by a long stretch. They can be done in under an hour easy. No wipes on anything takes about 45 min each. The only mechanics I can think of in storymode that are one shot is Brontes clockwork phase if you miss the first one (which I think now has a DPS check that is nonexistent) and Tyrans simplification pattern (which is a generic border pattern). If you really want to do the story, they are not hard to do. It's not like there is any mechanic in there that is like the Underlurker cross or even the Aviela and Esne coordination checks. I get people hate group content but this is an MMO, and interacting with others is not a dirty word. There is a bolster, there is literally no reason anyone shouldn't be able to walk in to SM and get a clear.

 

Bioware so does not have the resources. They can barely churn out content at the snail's pace were going now. And that content they do churn out often is filled with bugs galore or glaring issues. And you want them to go back to content that was released nearly FOUR years ago, invest time in making sure everyone has access to a story plot that doesn't even make any sense with the current plot of things, and change the way it works?

And it was a mistake.

 

The ENTIRE Dread Master storyline wasn't good due to the ops format.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

"Lack of resource" is not an excuse.

 

We don't have enough new content, if old content were not fixed/improved, ppl are going to leave this game.

[Ylliarus]

"Lack of resource" is not an excuse.

 

We don't have enough new content, if old content were not fixed/improved, ppl are going to leave this game.

 

Which is my point entirely. Those opposing this thread are constantly saying "lack of resources this lack or resources that" but where is the official statement of Bioware that indicates the state of their resources?

 

Also, a supposed lack of resources hasn't stopped Bioware from going back and fixing/changing old stuff, the cutscenes for the beginning of each storyline being a primary example.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Ylliarus

[bdatt]

If something could be implemented requiring very few resources, like a consumable that when activated advances the story I don't care. But spending resources to create a solo Dread Masters fight in FP style is not something I want. It kinda worked for Revan since it's really you and 7 NPCs, but otherwise that solo fight is the worst part of 3.0. They shouldn't have developed the fight but instead just have you fly to that spot and talk to a Revan other people defeated.

 

Back to DMs: You don't even have to do the entire operation. Many groups farm CXP by doing final boss lockouts (note this doesn't work for SnV, since you have to kill the last two for the story). So one really just has to be prepared for two boss fights, that take at most 15 minutes and look or ask for groups with a final boss lockout. Granted those two are the most complex in their respective instances, but it's just two.

Edited August 30, 2017 by bdatt

[Ylliarus]

If something could be implemented requiring very few resources, like a consumable that when activated advances the story I don't care. But spending resources to create a solo Dread Masters fight in FP style is not something I want. It kinda worked for Revan since it's really you and 7 NPCs, but otherwise that solo fight is the worst part of 3.0. They shouldn't have developed the fight but instead just have you fly to that spot and talk to a Revan other people defeated.

 

Back to DMs: You don't even have to do the entire operation. Many groups farm CXP by doing final boss lockouts (note this doesn't work for SnV, since you have to kill the last two for the story). So one really just has to be prepared for two boss fights, that take at most 15 minutes and look or ask for groups with a final boss lockout. Granted those two are the most complex in their respective instances, but it's just two.

 

I am suggesting something as simple as in Shadow of Revan on Yavin where you had to do this and that amount of dailies instead of the operation in order to further the story. We already have dailies on Oricon, implementing something like that only requires to tweak a few stuff to allow such a choice in the dialogue option before accepting the operation mission. That is the solution I am suggesting, no more no less. Let the operation stay as it is, just do a solo alternative next to it along the lines or "do X amount of Oricon dailies instead of the operations".

[DieAlteHexe]

I am suggesting something as simple as in Shadow of Revan on Yavin where you had to do this and that amount of dailies instead of the operation in order to further the story. We already have dailies on Oricon, implementing something like that only requires to tweak a few stuff to allow such a choice in the dialogue option before accepting the operation mission. That is the solution I am suggesting, no more no less. Let the operation stay as it is, just do a solo alternative next to it along the lines or "do X amount of Oricon dailies instead of the operations".

 

I think this is a fine solution. No "back-tracking" to recode, just handle it like Yavin 4 and I'd be content.

[CaptRogue]

Oricon finishes and THEN you get the ops. After doing Dread fortress/palace, you dont get a closing cutscene that "wraps up" the story for you, and even after you finish the ops those quest givers still have that gold triangle over their heads so you can re-take it after. (or at least, they still have it for me) So, if you are at that point youre done with the story for all intents and purposes, theres not an ending or wrap-up that youre missing out on or anything for not doing the ops.

 

^ 100% this.

If you don't do Ops, then you're not missing anything. Just some bosses & mobs they tied to the Oricon quest. It's not required.

Besides if it bugs you that much, suck it up & join a group on the day it's in Group Finder, run it once & voila you're done. After what 4yrs it's been out, you can either do one of the two options. lol Who knows you might actually enjoy it too.

[DarthDymond]

I am suggesting something as simple as in Shadow of Revan on Yavin where you had to do this and that amount of dailies instead of the operation in order to further the story. We already have dailies on Oricon, implementing something like that only requires to tweak a few stuff to allow such a choice in the dialogue option before accepting the operation mission. That is the solution I am suggesting, no more no less. Let the operation stay as it is, just do a solo alternative next to it along the lines or "do X amount of Oricon dailies instead of the operations".

That... won't really make sense in Oricon. The story ends when you finally defeat the Dread Masters themselves. If you don't actually fight them (which you can only do in the Ops right now), the ending doesn't follow.

 

That's why, regardless of whether you do the Op or the Dailies on Yavin, you still end up fighting Revan - defeating him is a necessary step in the plot.

 

The Oricon Dailies, as they are now, don't include a comparable fight against the Dread Masters to get you where the story is going.

Edited August 30, 2017 by DarthDymond

[Slowpokeking]

If something could be implemented requiring very few resources, like a consumable that when activated advances the story I don't care. But spending resources to create a solo Dread Masters fight in FP style is not something I want. It kinda worked for Revan since it's really you and 7 NPCs, but otherwise that solo fight is the worst part of 3.0. They shouldn't have developed the fight but instead just have you fly to that spot and talk to a Revan other people defeated.

 

Back to DMs: You don't even have to do the entire operation. Many groups farm CXP by doing final boss lockouts (note this doesn't work for SnV, since you have to kill the last two for the story). So one really just has to be prepared for two boss fights, that take at most 15 minutes and look or ask for groups with a final boss lockout. Granted those two are the most complex in their respective instances, but it's just two.

 

Why? It's part of the storyline and improve it will make ppl enjoy it more.

 

We already lack of new content right now, improve the old ones would make the game more enjoyable at least.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

^ 100% this.

If you don't do Ops, then you're not missing anything. Just some bosses & mobs they tied to the Oricon quest. It's not required.

Besides if it bugs you that much, suck it up & join a group on the day it's in Group Finder, run it once & voila you're done. After what 4yrs it's been out, you can either do one of the two options. lol Who knows you might actually enjoy it too.

 

You miss the ending of the story. Without doing the ops you don't get those cutscenes.

[MissilyMilcasia]

Then Oricon shouldn't have been presented in the story format it was. It was presented as a story on its own and therefore deserves to have a beginning and an end for every player, raider as well as non-raider.

 

Also, the lack of resources didn't stop Bioware from going back and making new cutscenes for the start of each class story, or did we conveniently forget that?

 

It really wasn't. It was presented as a storyline that evolved from the previous operations. I don't get whats complicated about this. It's a story for a select class of players (raiders). It's almost no different than Shroud of Memory (a story for a select group of people). You had to sub to get shroud. You have to raid to do Dread Masters. It's gated content. Granted, the gate is practically wide open in this case for Oricon. You don't see people whining about Shroud (or well, people do, but they're widely rebuffed by people saying sorry not sorry). If you want to play a storyline all by yourself, there are many options. Class stories. All My Children starring Valkorion. Forged Alliances. But this was intended for raiders as it was a storyline for the raiding operations and it was done at a time when the second M in MMO still meant something.

 

I never said bioware invested their time wisely. That's been proven in multiple threads and multiple "fixes" of things that make no sense. Bestia XP nerf and the crystal weapon swap come to mind. What I am saying it's very clear they are lacking the resources they possessed before Shadow of Revan. if you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe check the patch notes for frequency of substantial content updates back in 2012 vs now? I can't really help you with context clues.

 

What I can say is this makes no sense. Why would you do this for the story aspect? It has no relevance any more, it happened like a decade ago in SWTOR time ish. There's been like several different power changes in the galaxy, we've been frozen in carbonite, etc etc. I'd rather focus on them writing a better story and executing something that people will really like. They need to focus on engaging people in new fresh content, not tweaking group content done back when this game was an MMO. I could maybe if this piece of content was in some way relevant to the new story lines but it isn't in any way.

 

Which is my point entirely. Those opposing this thread are constantly saying "lack of resources this lack or resources that" but where is the official statement of Bioware that indicates the state of their resource?.

 

Hm, I don't know. Would you tell people directly you don't have the capacity to put out quality content like you did four or five years ago, or would you might have to infer that one on your own?