Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[mrshadowbg]

Yes I understand that.

 

All I said still stands. Those were the money from sliceing.

And you didn't answered My question at all. How are your sells now post nerf ?

And to add even more, what you said is a proof that sliceing wasen't OP if you can make that kind of money with UT.

 

So you say peoples can't spare 5-8k on items at level 30-50? I can't believe that. I was able to w/o slicing.

 

I am selling an item or two each day for the last week. I can't see any diference pre-patch and post-patch.

 

And for last - I have made like 50-70k profit out of UT for leveling it from 1 to 400 and you say that makes profession from wich some peoples made millions (YES MILLIONS - SEVEN OR MORE DIGIT NUMBERS) balanced. How come?

[Repefe]

I am sorry i admit didnt read 70 pages of posts , but i do not understand the whining about slicing when you get recipes and missions that sell for quite some money or can be used by yourselves.

 

It might not be as it was before , but also dont forget that you are able to open all the slicing nodes as well for extra cash where you don`t have to pay any mission costs.

 

Maybe once ppl drop slicing the recipes will sell ... right now if you check GTM on our server there are tens of every recipe kind sitting there ready to time out. Not sure about the crew missions. You get up to 1k if you vendor them. Dunno how much more can you get from selling them on GTM.

[KTheAlchemist]

Why SLICERS always forget that they get mission discoveries and some patterns too? Those are sellable for profit and quite big as I see it. But ofcorse it's easy to forget about such things when they require you to actualy do more than 3 clicks and wait 30 mins right?

 

 

The purpose of SLICING is just that - patterns, mission discoveries and when none of those procs you hardly loose anything but your companions time. You get net profit if you slice in the world. That's it and I can't see why slicers can't accept it?

 

 

P.S. Don't come with stuff like low prices on patters and mission discoveries - those will go up once some of the slicers drop it and the demand goes up when more peoples level.

 

The problem with your theory is that if that's the purpose of Slicing, then slicing is the only gathering skill that can't directly mission for its "purpose". They only return as a rare drop from lockbox missions.

[Zakkana]

The people who are quitting from this were NEVER going to be pleased enough to stay. the ability was OP, now its not and your quitting. I get it, a bunch of people want to be economic gods, but the vast majority doesn't want to be ruled by a 1% slicer population. You won't find an MMO that caters to you and your kinds, "style". BW didnt make this change in response to forums either btw, they noticed a huge problem in how the economy was developing and fixed it before it was too late.

 

Amazing, because people who actually tested this thing noted the high payoffs from slicing. Yet nothing was changed when it went live. So either BioWare completely ignored them, or it was as-intended. Then people complained when it went live and suddenly there were cries of "It's OP! NERF IT FOR ME!" and now it's bad.

 

And it was not about being "economic gods". It was about being able to play the game and not have to worry about farming constantly just to pay that 40+k repair bill we'll all have down the road when we actually hit 50 and such.

[Skuldar]

With Slicing, there are missions that go for credit boxes and there are missions that go for other items. If a credit mission does not return a profit (assuming the crew member does not fail the mission), then there is no point in having such a mission. We have a choice of which type of mission to run. By making one of those choices so much worse than it was, they are implicating their own apparent error in giving us that option in the first place.

[Drewser]

Amazing, because people who actually tested this thing noted the high payoffs from slicing. Yet nothing was changed when it went live. So either BioWare completely ignored them, or it was as-intended. Then people complained when it went live and suddenly there were cries of "It's OP! NERF IT FOR ME!" and now it's bad.

 

And it was not about being "economic gods". It was about being able to play the game and not have to worry about farming constantly just to pay that 40+k repair bill we'll all have down the road when we actually hit 50 and such.

 

It was actually complained about in beta and payouts were reduced in one of the later builds.

[Zakkana]

It was actually complained about in beta and payouts were reduced in one of the later builds.

 

True, but they weren't changed to the degree they were on Tuesday. Nor did nodes disappear from entire planets.

[RobHouse]

And it was not about being "economic gods". It was about being able to play the game and not have to worry about farming constantly just to pay that 40+k repair bill we'll all have down the road when we actually hit 50 and such.

 

I was a bit rude before and i apologize for that, you're clearly slightly more mannered than most around here, but I feel that grinding is part of an MMO, i mean MMOs are about personal growth right, how can you grow if you havent endured anything? I'm only lvl 21 but my friend is lvl 35 and he doesnt nor has he ever had slicing, and he doesnt have a lot of trouble paying repair bills. maybe we arent supposed to have a WoW like economy, maybe most of the credits are SUPPOSED to wind up in the hands of NPCs, I know that in WoW i was sitting on a 200k gold reserve that i took with me to my grave when i quit, that just doesnt seem right to me

[DarthSublimitas]

Well, on my server(s), the AH is stagnant. I'm starting to feel the crunch from the slicing nerf. People just aren't buying. I usually list 50 items and roughly 1/2 of them sell now I'm getting in access of over 30 returns. Good job BW, not only did you make a skill completely WORTHLESS as you LOSE money on the slicing missions, but the economy is a complete mess. I want to thank you again for your diligent foresight in this matter.

[KTheAlchemist]

 

I was a bit rude before and i apologize for that, you're clearly slightly more mannered than most around here, but I feel that grinding is part of an MMO, i mean MMOs are about personal growth right, how can you grow if you havent endured anything? I'm only lvl 21 but my friend is lvl 35 and he doesnt nor has he ever had slicing, and he doesnt have a lot of trouble paying repair bills. maybe we arent supposed to have a WoW like economy, maybe most of the credits are SUPPOSED to wind up in the hands of NPCs, I know that in WoW i was sitting on a 200k gold reserve that i took with me to my grave when i quit, that just doesnt seem right to me

 

I understand the attitude of "character building through strife" and all that, but it is that precise attitude that has made MMO's something that's just not focused on...well, fun. Grinding isn't and has never been fun, there's a reason we call it grinding, and I say this as a long term veteran of MMOs. It's what we do, the "chores" required to get back to the fun part, and after all these years I'm sick of that style of "play" and was more than glad to see a departure from it. Some people are very good at playing the grind system, finding ways to make it hurt less, but these people are generally in the minority. One of the things I loved about this is how, well, focused on story and friendly it seemed, this is something I could have potentially tried to sell some of my less MMO-friendly friends on, people who are fun to play games with but just can't stand "the grind".

Edited December 30, 2011 by KTheAlchemist

[Golarz]

So you say peoples can't spare 5-8k on items at level 30-50? I can't believe that. I was able to w/o slicing.

 

Let me break it down for You. There is no point to buy mats becouse crafted gear is garbage. You get better gear from daily quests and from PvP vendors.

People were buying mats becouse the had extra credits from sliceing, so they were leveling up they craft for fun. Now they will not, becouse there is no point. And it's no longer fun.

 

I am selling an item or two each day for the last week. I can't see any diference pre-patch and post-patch.

 

And for last - I have made like 50-70k profit out of UT for leveling it from 1 to 400 and you say that makes profession from wich some peoples made millions (YES MILLIONS - SEVEN OR MORE DIGIT NUMBERS) balanced. How come?

 

Ehhh.

Where are My milions then huh?

People made milions becouse BioWare failed. BW put the best nodes you can find in entire game on Illum and Tatooin PvP. Then some people (mostly beta testers) rushed to level 50 and started to farm those nodes. Sure they got some money from missions on their way there, but it was farming THE BEST POSSIBLE nodes in empty PvP zones that gave them millions. Same thing people are saying to slicers now - "why don't you go out and slice nodes?". Thats what they did.

[LeperJack]

Why SLICERS always forget that they get mission discoveries and some patterns too?

I'm aware of that. I get them at approximately the same rate that I get purple mats from other gathering professions (which are also accompanied by schematics)

 

The difference is that as an Underworld Trader/Treasure Hunter/Scavenger I was making far more credits posting my mats directly to an Auction house than I ever did by slicing.

 

I have 4 characters on one server. One uses slicing. (used, really, I got it to 400 and realized that even pre-nerf it was the least profitable skill they had.) The one that has made the most money so far is my Cybertech/Scavenger/Treasure Hunter. Self-support my own mats and I sell off the excess for silly amounts of money.

 

Instead of crafting a bunch of things and then repeatedly destroying them to "catch 'em al" with the patterns, I selectively pick which ones to buy and craft.

 

Then I craft them.

 

Then I sell them.

 

Despite the economic downturn, yesterday I made 200k in profit, after costs are accounted for with this one character alone. This was not residual income from things made and posted days before--it was income made yesterday from things posted yesterday.

 

That is one character who is level 15.

 

For all the cries of how "horribly unprofitable" all the other crew skills are, how borked crafting is, and how you apparently lose money ate everything, I've managed to make more profit with one character at level 15 in FIVE HOURS OF PLAY after the nerf with a slowed economy, than was possible by micromanaging 8 slicer alts who were high enough level to send out 3 companions constantly for 10 hours a day before the nerf.

 

Now I realize that this is unfair.

 

And so, BoiWare, I humbly submit that you should immediately nerf all gathering and tradeskills to be unprofitable so that I cannot be unjustly enriched.

 

Given current market prices on my server, I have worked up a few guidelines:

 

Underworld Trading/Treasure Hunting/Diplomacy/Investigation:

Moderate yield: 85% failure rate, returns one blue material on success.

Abundant yield: 90% failure rate, returns two blue materials on success.

Bountiful yield: 50% failure rate, returns two blue materials on success.

Rich yield: 10% failure rate, returns two blue materials on success.

 

Scavenging/Bioanalysis/Archaeology:

Moderate yield: 10% failure rate, returns 2 materials on success.

Abundant yield: 5% failure rate, returns 2 materials on success.

Bountiful yield: 25% failure rate, returns 3 materials on success.

Rich yield: 5% failure rate, returns 4 materials on success.

 

Crafting skills:

Crafting skills were tough. I can take 1000cr worth of materials (GNT value) and turn it into 4000cr worth of stuff easily.

I think the best solution is to add a 75% failure rate to all crafting opportunities.

[Zakkana]

I was a bit rude before and i apologize for that, you're clearly slightly more mannered than most around here, but I feel that grinding is part of an MMO, i mean MMOs are about personal growth right, how can you grow if you havent endured anything? I'm only lvl 21 but my friend is lvl 35 and he doesnt nor has he ever had slicing, and he doesnt have a lot of trouble paying repair bills. maybe we arent supposed to have a WoW like economy, maybe most of the credits are SUPPOSED to wind up in the hands of NPCs, I know that in WoW i was sitting on a 200k gold reserve that i took with me to my grave when i quit, that just doesnt seem right to me

 

Apology accepted. What I liked about slicing as it used to be was the fact that I did not have to have a dedicated character, or characters, whose sole purpose was to farm. In WoW I have my druid that some mornings I go out and all I do is mine for stuff to feed my main's Jewelcrafting and herbs to sell or use in gem transmutes. It gets really boring really fast. I do not want that here in SWTOR. I want a game I can play casually when I want to. I liked the fact I could log in, send my minions out on missions, and then log out and later collect the rewards.

 

The problem with judging repair bills now as we level is that fact that a) most of our gear is changing fast and b) we have questing to generate income. Once we hit 50 that all goes away. Our skills costs go up exponentially as do our repairs. Going back to the WoW comparison, they buffed the amount of gold that you get from raid bosses so instead of getting a handful, you're getting a lot. One boss can cover quite a few repairs. We can even generate free money for our guild banks through a guild ability that creates a percentage of money we loot from mobs and deposits it into the guild bank thus encouraging use of guild repairs.

 

My main issue is that this whole slicing thing was handled horribly. The profession needs to be "unnerfed" and a different approach to it needs to be used. My suggestion was a simple, small hit to the three factors of missions (decrease payouts by 10%, increase costs 10%, increase duration of missions by 10%). Others have suggested that there be level floors so like the level 6 boxes/augment missions are not available until you hit level 49 on your character so the skill will scale up as you level up. Suggestions of limiting the skill to one character per faction per server have been mentioned. Another one I just thought of and have not seen mentioned is limiting the number of companions you can send out too.

 

It is almost a universal agreement slicing needed some more adjustments. The issue is, and will continue to be, the heavy-handed way in which it was nerfed into oblivion and the lack of communication on this issue.

[mrshadowbg]

I'm aware of that. I get them at approximately the same rate that I get purple mats from other gathering professions (which are also accompanied by schematics)

 

The difference is that as an Underworld Trader/Treasure Hunter/Scavenger I was making far more credits posting my mats directly to an Auction house than I ever did by slicing.

......

 

So you are saying you can make far more than Slicing IF you go to the GTN(and the slicer just 2 click they companions to missions), right? And MAYBE but just MAYBE if there were not so much slicers and a bit more crafters then the crafter stuff would've been a bit cheaper and the stuff from slicing (missions, patters and so on) will be a bit more expensive. Also you would've sold way less mats because those slicers that have bought them will have produced them for themselves and even maybe sell them on the GTN... I've heard economic is hard thing so I can't judge what will come in a few weeks but I say stop whining and play for a month like that - if there is problem I'm sure BW will address it.

 

 

@Golarz - if something is not fun for you - don't do it. I still have to see how are the end game items, mods and so on and the crafted once too so I can't comment on what you are saying. Yet for me crafting my own stuff and the bit of gambling with TH are fun

[Rocsolid]

It doesn't need to be unnerfed lol. It now scales with other skills, maybe they meant it to be used by an alt? Ever think of that? Sure you lose a crew skill, but it could just be they designed it to work with an alt, since you don't need to reselect a skill if you already have it on another char...

[Dorkfrey]

So you are saying you can make far more than Slicing IF you go to the GTN(and the slicer just 2 click they companions to missions), right? And MAYBE but just MAYBE if there were not so much slicers and a bit more crafters then the crafter stuff would've been a bit cheaper and the stuff from slicing (missions, patters and so on) will be a bit more expensive. Also you would've sold way less mats because those slicers that have bought them will have produced them for themselves and even maybe sell them on the GTN... I've heard economic is hard thing so I can't judge what will come in a few weeks but I say stop whining and play for a month like that - if there is problem I'm sure BW will address it.

 

So, what you're saying here is basically in summary, if I've read what you've written correctly:

 

"In short, he's only able to make the money he can because slicers have earned far more than he could in the same amount of time."

 

Except, as every level 50 will tell you, Pre-Nerf slicing was making less than they'd get from farming/space missions/dailies/anything else.

 

Every person who has levelled a crafter seriously in any MMO, will tell you the same thing, that a baseline gathering profession will have less earning potential than a finished craft. And any person who had levelled, and didn't spam missions on slicer, going "Woot, I'm level 10 Slicer Herp Derp and I've a bajillion credits Derp Herp", will also be able to tell you - that slicing made the "LEAST" out of all the baselines as a potential, for one simple convenience, that you didn't need to grind. And that Slicing barely kept people just ticking over and able to play - it was NEVER the big money profession.

 

This is something so few of the people here have been able to get. Yes, it gave a small credit boost to the economy from lower levels starting out. In terms of potential money influx into the economy though - was far less than if those people had been level 50 and doing 50 content.

 

Hence, why forcing a node grind - because of the whines of a few, when Bioware had professed to be moving away from this, has made me cancel.

[Zakkana]

Hence, why forcing a node grind - because of the whines of a few, when Bioware had professed to be moving away from this, has made me cancel.

 

Agreed. I hate node grinds. I can barely stand it in WoW. Because then you have all the whining in the forums about it. During the Burning Crusade it was all about who had Epic flight and who didn't. Then it became the gladiators were OP because they got a 310% mount. Both cases it was because faster flight means you got to the nodes first, especially Paladins.

 

Then the argument about druids started because they can herb in bird form (yet to this day people still think they can mine that way too).

 

Then it focused on the Taurens because the redesigned cultivation racial allows them to herb a node in half a second and theoretically steal nodes and the advantage of being able to herb a node near a mob that would attack and then fly away where as others would need to kill mobs.

 

Node grinds suck.

[Pansophist]

Agreed. I hate node grinds. I can barely stand it in WoW. Because then you have all the whining in the forums about it. During the Burning Crusade it was all about who had Epic flight and who didn't. Then it became the gladiators were OP because they got a 310% mount. Both cases it was because faster flight means you got to the nodes first, especially Paladins.

 

Then the argument about druids started because they can herb in bird form (yet to this day people still think they can mine that way too).

 

Then it focused on the Taurens because the redesigned cultivation racial allows them to herb a node in half a second and theoretically steal nodes and the advantage of being able to herb a node near a mob that would attack and then fly away where as others would need to kill mobs.

 

Node grinds suck.

 

That...and this game was supposed to be targeted toward the more casual crowd. I believe slicing was wrongly implemented to begin with, but its existence allowed for the more casual players to at least enjoy their leveling to 50 without having to endure a grindfest. Slicing was not OP in its prior form at 50, we've been over this many times. I still maintain it needed a nerf, but I would have preferred a rework of _all_ the crew skills.

 

And again, I would urge people not to push their beliefs of what an mmo should be like on others. The game is meant for fun, and we have fun in different ways.

[SeedyJ]

Agreed. I hate node grinds. I can barely stand it in WoW. Because then you have all the whining in the forums about it. During the Burning Crusade it was all about who had Epic flight and who didn't. Then it became the gladiators were OP because they got a 310% mount. Both cases it was because faster flight means you got to the nodes first, especially Paladins.

 

Then the argument about druids started because they can herb in bird form (yet to this day people still think they can mine that way too).

 

Then it focused on the Taurens because the redesigned cultivation racial allows them to herb a node in half a second and theoretically steal nodes and the advantage of being able to herb a node near a mob that would attack and then fly away where as others would need to kill mobs.

 

Node grinds suck.

 

True.

 

Unfortunately there's a fanatical breed of sociopathic basement filth that believe that 'fun' should be reserved for them only.

 

Curious though, when do you think that this game will fold? If it becomes 'Evercrack in Space' it's almost inevitable.

[Zakkana]

Curious though, when do you think that this game will fold? If it becomes 'Evercrack in Space' it's almost inevitable.

 

Won't place any bets. But in the same vein though... all the anti-WoW talk in all chat channels on my server have ceased completely though.

 

And I agree with you on the sociopath comment. The people who like that stuff would probably let their babies starve to death in favor of grinding nodes.

[Zakkana]

And again, I would urge people not to push their beliefs of what an mmo should be like on others. The game is meant for fun, and we have fun in different ways.

 

And that was why the NGE (and some would even argue the CU) was such a failure for Star Wars Galaxies. It was a minority wanting to inflict their play style onto others. The even worse part was, at least for the NGE, was that after roughly 50% of the player base walked in less than 30 days and SOE was forced to refund people for Trials of Obi-wan expansion, they still maintained the NGE was a "positive" change.

 

When will people just learn to lay back and just effing play?

[DarthSublimitas]

Welcome to the new intergalactic WoW... Happy grinding...

[SeedyJ]

Won't place any bets. But in the same vein though... all the anti-WoW talk in all chat channels on my server have ceased completely though.

 

And I agree with you on the sociopath comment. The people who like that stuff would probably let their babies starve to death in favor of grinding nodes.

 

The problem is that these socios are very loud and wail profusely until devs begin the bootlick routines. Now it's the long slow slide into fail.

 

It's a shame because parts of the game, particularly the storyline, are great. But it's so unbalanced in places.

 

With grindfests tho, this becomes as appealing as the idea of picking my nose with a piledriver. I quit WoW for this reason, I'd just had enough. Again in SWTOR? No way!!!!

[KTheAlchemist]

And that was why the NGE (and some would even argue the CU) was such a failure for Star Wars Galaxies. It was a minority wanting to inflict their play style onto others. The even worse part was, at least for the NGE, was that after roughly 50% of the player base walked in less than 30 days and SOE was forced to refund people for Trials of Obi-wan expansion, they still maintained the NGE was a "positive" change.

 

When will people just learn to lay back and just effing play?

 

It's the same attitude that made me eventually run from the "hardcore raider" crowd in wow after so many years of doing it myself. The petulant, self-absorbed. "Omg *** things got easier for someone else than it was for me? MY KILLED BOSS SHOULD REMAIN MINE ALONE FOR ALL TIME!" attitudes, the wailing any time more casual styles of play were accomodated, even when hardmode etc was still there...the hardcore elite think the game is built on them, or should be, but without the casuals, games fold or dwindle into obscurity.

[Zakkana]

It's the same attitude that made me eventually run from the "hardcore raider" crowd in wow after so many years of doing it myself. The petulant, self-absorbed. "Omg *** things got easier for someone else than it was for me? MY KILLED BOSS SHOULD REMAIN MINE ALONE FOR ALL TIME!" attitudes, the wailing any time more casual styles of play were accomodated, even when hardmode etc was still there...the hardcore elite think the game is built on them, or should be, but without the casuals, games fold or dwindle into obscurity.

 

Exactly. They're still complaining even after Blizzard catered to both by making 10 mans and the LFR difficulty levels for more casual players and the heroic difficulty for hard core players.

 

They used to even have server first rewards until people started server hopping with guilds to steal them.