Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Golarz]

I hate to break this to you guys, but it sounds like they turned slicing into exactly what treasure hunting has always been, except you get different things out of it. Actually, it still sounds like slicing is better than treasure hunting for generating money. Overall, these are crafting skills, not send a companion out for x period of time to gain y credits. If it worked that way before, it was wrong.

 

Non of those is a crafting skill. Sliceing is Gathering skill and Treasure Hunting is Mission skill.

 

just going to throw it out there, but I spent all of my time yesterday on the game sending slicers out for lvl 6 boxes, and went from around 7k to 60k, including questing rewards, dying, buying medpacks and repairing my gear. So it can't have been nerfed THAT badly.

 

If you didn't you would probably end up with 80k. Everyone knows that level 6 missions were unprofitable even pre nerf, so how did tou made money out of those post nerf ?

All the money you got are from questing. If you want to prowide some relevant data on the topic please next time separate sliceing incom from anything else.

[Laranoye]

Tested this yesterday on my main while playing on my alt, i spammed her slicing and only slicing with 4 companions, went from 210k to 217k..... ALL DAY LONG i was doing it on and off. For missions costing from 1k to 2k i barely ever made a profit and only mostly made a massive loss. this is a joke it hasnt been nerfed its been oblitorated, just remove it from the game altogether it aint worth it anymore.

[Revan-the-knight]

bioware are proven to listen to the players, remember back in the day when the Sage was caloled "jedi Wizard"?

[Nahela]

The worst part about this is I just spent a huge amount of credits buying up materials from the mission skill I didn't take, figuring I could make it back with Slicing. Joke's on me I guess.

 

EDIT: Again, I really can't even begin to emphasize how poor a design decision this is. The majority of a MMO player-base doesn't read forums, they won't look at spreadsheets, they'll simply look at their stuff in-game, wondering why it's suddenly broken and not being fixed.

 

You had months, years to tweak the numbers on this. A massive change a week after release is just absurdity.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Nahela

[laural]

So I basically sunk all my companion time into leveling a profession to make money so I could purchase the materials for the mission profession I didn't take.

 

Except now I break even at best on Slicing missions? Why bother? What exactly do you guys expect players to do? Okay everybody drop Slicing, and then when we make another huge sweeping change in a couple weeks you can pick it back up.

 

MMO Design 101, you don't make crippling changes out of nowhere. The hell was the point of beta?

 

 

This is how I'm feeling at the moment.

 

Edited to add: I only play a few hours a week because of work, real life obligations, so the time I spend in game is rather precious to me. Having to either undo something I've done and/or take up grinding to supplement is not how I want to spend those few hours a week.

Edited December 29, 2011 by laural

[PeterMAbraham]

Good day:

 

Renifizzle thank you for your post.

 

Did you email support@swtor.com with the same information?

 

Personally, I believe the developers should work on fixing the numerous bugs (small and large) before they nerf anything.

 

Paying customers like bug fixes -- at least, I do.

 

There are a small number of serious bugs, a medium number of heavy hitting bugs, and so on.

 

To make a major hit on the economy without proper stats, which to me take several seasons to gather, along without getting PAYING customer input comes across as uncaring and arrogant.

 

The economy is a backbone of any MMO. So why mess with it without communicating with PAYING customers? Especially given there are many bugs unfixed.

 

Thank you.

[Workerdrone]

PAYING customers are not always right. The only guaranteed right you have as a PAYING customer is to stop PAYING if you aren't satisfied

 

Slicing was too good. Period.

If you can't see that then you are part of the reason it had to be nerfed.

 

I'd rather have them nerf it too much now, before the economy is completely screwed.

 

Once the major bugs are taken care of they can look into balancing it properly.

[SeedyJ]

The worst part about this is I just spent a huge amount of credits buying up materials from the mission skill I didn't take, figuring I could make it back with Slicing. Joke's on me I guess.

 

EDIT: Again, I really can't even begin to emphasize how poor a design decision this is. The majority of a MMO player-base doesn't read forums, they won't look at spreadsheets, they'll simply look at their stuff in-game, wondering why it's suddenly broken and not being fixed.

 

You had months, years to tweak the numbers on this. A massive change a week after release is just absurdity.

 

Unfortunately Bioware's development policy seems to revolve around bootlicking the wailers. This doesn't bode well for the future of this game, and I'm concerned that there'll be some truly chaotic and damaging nerf-storms in the future.

[WuphonsReach]

I think they should have made it so you could only take slicing on one character per account.

 

No, that would be too limiting (maybe you like slicing lockboxes out in the game world as you level / roam).

 

What would be equally limiting, while not over-nerfing would be if you could only be running a single mission skill of a particular type per character at the same time. So if Companion #1 is off doing Slicing, you can't have a 2nd companion also doing Slicing.

 

(How this would impact crafters - tough luck? Not being able to send your companions out on missions unless you are of the appropriate level for a particular mission would be a far better choice.)

[RaZoor]

 

Slicing was too good. Period.

If you can't see that then you are part of the reason it had to be nerfed.

 

 

I suppose we should all stop driving cars too. I mean its way better than walking and some people just refuse to get jobs in order to own a car.

 

All you had to do was ...........PICK SLICING!!!!

 

I am so sick of crybabies ruining mmo's

[iTempest]

The fact BW is willing to cave to community outcry so quickly and clearly without actualy looking into the matter beyond a quick fix has deeply shaken my faith in this company going forward. I dont care if they fix Slicing back or not at this point, the damage is done.

[Raximillian]

I was reading through these threads all day... I never comment in forums but I feel compelled to throw an idea into the mix.

 

Was Slicing the problem? OR... Is the issue the fact that NPCs sell most if not all crafting mats?

 

I say:

1. Rip all crafting mat selling NPCs out of the game

2. Return Slicing to what it was (Or nerf it a little, maybe allow one slicer per server)

3. Slicers will have to buy all crafting mats from the AH...

 

This would cause a nice redistribution of wealth to the crafters who are focusing on professions that supplement their crafting profession. Slicers can still use their 'free' money to buy gathered goods from the AH.

 

My logic is much clearer than my typing, so before I get roasted for this... actively think of my proposed solution... poke holes in it... but please fill the holes with a better solution.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think the solution would be to rework slicing. A tradeskill that just gives money by just pressing one button simply does not fit in an MMO. Or any game for that matter. Change it so it does not give lockboxes, but something else. Random mats for other professions, heck, even random green items would work.

 

Slicing simply will not work because we end up with 3 options:

 

1) Slicing leaves a credit loss. So not worth taking.

2) Slicing breaks even. Then why take it?

3) Slicing makes money. Free money button?

 

I would prefer slicing is changed altogether. Leave the safes out in the field, but the missions should generate something else.

[Amiracle]

I suppose we should all stop driving cars too. I mean its way better than walking and some people just refuse to get jobs in order to own a car.

 

All you had to do was ...........PICK SLICING!!!!

 

I am so sick of crybabies ruining mmo's

 

 

I'm sick of people who want to play video games on Hello Kitty Give me Everything for no effort mentality infesting mmo's and ruining them for the few who enjoyed them as they were.

 

Good job with the nerf, now can you make the game challenging outside of hard modes?

 

You may not make as much money but you will get rid of all the WoW welfare kiddies who like to faceroll every aspect of a video game.

[SeedyJ]

The fact BW is willing to cave to community outcry so quickly and clearly without actualy looking into the matter beyond a quick fix has deeply shaken my faith in this company going forward. I dont care if they fix Slicing back or not at this point, the damage is done.

 

Yup, and BW are so naive they've let the Basement Cavalry ruin the game already. I've seem some fast work before but tbh that's impressive.

[Drewser]

You make a very valid point.

 

Slicing should probably get buffed. But don't buff it to a point where mission skills can be profitable. That was a huge problem.

 

Adding level caps would just put a band aid on the issue with an easy work around.

 

They are still profitable now if you know what missions to run.

 

So are you advocating another nerf?

[Drewser]

The fact BW is willing to cave to community outcry so quickly and clearly without actualy looking into the matter beyond a quick fix has deeply shaken my faith in this company going forward. I dont care if they fix Slicing back or not at this point, the damage is done.

 

I am sure they looked at internal numbers. Maybe the "wailers" made them look into it but if the numbers showed 70-80% of the players taking slicing it had to change.

 

A bigger questions I have is why did they not see this during beta?

[RaZoor]

I'm sick of people who want to play video games on Hello Kitty Give me Everything for no effort mentality infesting mmo's and ruining them for the few who enjoyed them as they were.

 

Good job with the nerf, now can you make the game challenging outside of hard modes?

 

You may not make as much money but you will get rid of all the WoW welfare kiddies who like to faceroll every aspect of a video game.

 

at level 20 you have no understanding of "everything" KID.. talk to me about the economy when your 50...

[KTheAlchemist]

I think the solution would be to rework slicing. A tradeskill that just gives money by just pressing one button simply does not fit in an MMO. Or any game for that matter. Change it so it does not give lockboxes, but something else. Random mats for other professions, heck, even random green items would work.

 

Slicing simply will not work because we end up with 3 options:

 

1) Slicing leaves a credit loss. So not worth taking.

2) Slicing breaks even. Then why take it?

3) Slicing makes money. Free money button?

 

I would prefer slicing is changed altogether. Leave the safes out in the field, but the missions should generate something else.

 

The problem, though, is still the severe deflation of the economy. If they go this route, costs of the immovable, fixed price items (training, anything from a vendor) all need to be decreased.

[Raximillian]

The problem, though, is still the severe deflation of the economy. If they go this route, costs of the immovable, fixed price items (training, anything from a vendor) all need to be decreased.

 

Well, those prices should be set against the gains of someone that does not have any tradeskills at all. If they balanced all prices taking into account a person with slicing getting a greater income, then it makes slicing a compulsory skill choice... Not a good design.

 

I hope BW reviews money sinks after this change. But the good thing, is that the game is better if you struggle a bit for money. I hated WoW after LK when money just built up and there was nothing to drain it

[HelmetHarry]

PAYING customers are not always right. The only guaranteed right you have as a PAYING customer is to stop PAYING if you aren't satisfied

Yes, you do have that right. No arguments. But some of us don't believe in just giving up.

Some of us actually care for the game and don't want to see it turn into another SWG.

Slicing was too good. Period.

If you can't see that then you are part of the reason it had to be nerfed.

The majority of us slicers agree with you there. It's the severity we question

 

I'd rather have them nerf it too much now, before the economy is completely screwed.

 

Once the major bugs are taken care of they can look into balancing it properly.

 

What you fail to realize it's already killing the economy NOT having it. People's low lvl mats aren't selling like they were post-nerf. Augments from slicing don't sell hardly at all at low levels. so the lockboxes at least kept the skill viable until you could mission for lvl 50 augments. With no incentive to raise the skill, Augments will fade out to practically nothing, and/or you'll have to pay an arm and a leg for them to cover our costs on raising the skill. Then YOU will be back crying about how we slicers charge too much and we are "screwing over the economy".

Ironic huh?

[Ayern]

The way it was before, slicing would have been a wonderful tool for gold farmers.

 

yet useless, because anyone can do it and make cash instead of spending RW money on it. Also, it made actually crafting worth while because I WOULD spend money on others peoples stuff. Now I won't, it's not worth it at all now. Horde credits! that's the new battle cry.

[laural]

The worst part about this is I just spent a huge amount of credits buying up materials from the mission skill I didn't take, figuring I could make it back with Slicing. Joke's on me I guess.

 

EDIT: Again, I really can't even begin to emphasize how poor a design decision this is. The majority of a MMO player-base doesn't read forums, they won't look at spreadsheets, they'll simply look at their stuff in-game, wondering why it's suddenly broken and not being fixed.

 

You had months, years to tweak the numbers on this. A massive change a week after release is just absurdity.

 

 

Again, this is exactly how I feel. My biggest complaint is how do you go through alpha and beta testing and not make the determination that this is a problem and change it during that time? Instead it gets released to the public as is where we all make up our characters based on what we are given.

 

Many people are saying they knew it was OP and would be nerfed, but I guess I'm just not enough of a hardcore MMO gamer to have had that even enter my mind. How am I supposed to know a game that gets released with certain features is not how the developers intended it to be? I know nothing about economics in a game nor do I really want to. I deal with that stuff in my real life so again, the thought never entered my mind when picking up my crew skills that I was potentially picking up something that was "wrong" and that the developers of the game apparently had no idea what they were doing when they created it. If I had know that from the start, I wouldn't have bothered to pick certain crew skills between the only 2 characters I planned to have in order to compliment each other while using slicing to help fund those crew skills.

 

I keep hearing people complain that every MMO that comes out is just like the last one and the one before that and so on, so at what point do we see something different in a game and figure that finally a developer is trying to break out of the same old MMO mold instead of something different being a mistake?

[Deathmvp]

From what I have seen it look like they cut slicing down to 20%-25% of what it was before the nerf. I realy think that the issue was not so much the nerf but lowing it down so much. It they bring it back up to lets say 60%-70% of the pre-nerf numbers I think most people would be happy with it. Yes you would not be making money like you where before but then again you would not be losing money on avage on some of the mission and the one you do make a profit on will make you feel like you npc realy did something.

 

To me the main problem before the nerf and even now is not the cr it makes but the idea that the 25-33 or 17-24 group are the better ones to do then the 48-50. It should always be the highest group is the best one when all they realy give is cash.

 

For the people that are saying that you should be able to lose money and that you should then gather instead I reply with saying then they should remove the mission for lock boxes. In many way they did that with this patch and since out Augments are so useless unless they add more items with slots (incress crit on crafting) we have a profesion that has no misson. If so instead of lock boxes make the mission to go out and get missions each time. I know at lest on friend that only run our mission for his underworld trader and I could see a vauly of a misson just to get other missions and sell them on the AH.

[RaZoor]

I keep hearing people complain that every MMO that comes out is just like the last one and the one before that and so on, so at what point do we see something different in a game and figure that finally a developer is trying to break out of the same old MMO mold instead of something different being a mistake?

 

Great question......

 

I will give you a 13 yr mmo's perspective. A long time ago there were no forums, and MMO's were awesome. Why? Because ranting crybaby whiners didnt have soapboxes to stand on and wash us all down the salty river. Now, SWG was the first MMO released that had its own forums and its own Reps managing said forums, and we all saw how retarded that became. It has been a continuous downward spiral ever since where softy unhappy gamers (hardcore happy gamers are actually playing) think they know better than developers how to make a game. Unfortunately someone somewhere decided customer support was a valuable feature and would make them all rich, and yet failed to realize the forums are filled with people who arent playing their game at THAT moment for whatever reason, instead they are soapboxing about it. Most likely because they are unhappy or dont have access to it at THAT moment (work). So you have a situation where the truly happy people who are playing dont have a voice. The only voices are those who are unhappy and searching for a soapbox to rant from... FORUMS. All it really does is create the exact problem you have so eloquently pointed out.

[Nahela]

Once the major bugs are taken care of they can look into balancing it properly.

 

Or you know, they could have done it over the past 2 years.

 

The problem, though, is still the severe deflation of the economy. If they go this route, costs of the immovable, fixed price items (training, anything from a vendor) all need to be decreased.

 

Bingo. This is completely spot on.

 

Slicing was what brought more money into the economy. Now nobody is going to make as much money because you won't have Slicers buying up crafting materials. They simply can't afford to anymore.