Zolxtren Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) im out .... i wont gonna rage.... wont gonna bash the devs or their work.... or anything... im..just...Out.... had enough.... dont know when my sub runs out i dont even care..... but screw this seriously..... Dps Sorc is sooo bad that it barely even can casualy pvp at this point... and 90% of its issues are ignored.... Edited July 23, 2017 by Zolxtren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrahsrhaw Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 They only care when ppl unsub so ye we can just unsub only when they will notice what they doing something wrong. this not very smart people needed 6 mounth to bring back normal gearing system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omaan Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 im out .... i wont gonna rage.... wont gonna bash the devs or their work.... or anything... im..just...Out.... had enough.... dont know when my sub runs out i dont even care..... but screw this seriously..... Dps Sorc is sooo bad that it barely even can casualy pvp at this point... and 90% of its issues are ignored.... Yeah, leave please. We don't need new fotm here. Good bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trabble Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 class balance is now even worse then in 5.0 and devs are not interested in feedback. it is just eat or die. devs have their holy "metrics" and the NiM experience of dummy parses - so they don't need players. noob mercs like oman will never understand what this is about. its ok oman. the devs need people like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumquy Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 im out .... i wont gonna rage.... wont gonna bash the devs or their work.... or anything... im..just...Out.... had enough.... dont know when my sub runs out i dont even care..... but screw this seriously..... Dps Sorc is sooo bad that it barely even can casualy pvp at this point... and 90% of its issues are ignored.... can i haz ur stuff? ...but seriously, dps sorcs don't need any more changes. they do better dps than some of the newly nerfed classes and still have the best mobility in the game. they are perfectly fine in regs pvp if you play them correctly (hint: trying to face tank that jugg is not going to end well for you!). players aren't stupid and you can tell when a class is overpowered or underpowered by how many of them you see in matches, i.e. mercs and powertechs. sorcs are well represented and if you are having a problem with them, that is your own fault, not a problem with the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omaan Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) can i haz ur stuff? ...but seriously, dps sorcs don't need any more changes. they do better dps than some of the newly nerfed classes and still have the best mobility in the game. they are perfectly fine in regs pvp if you play them correctly (hint: trying to face tank that jugg is not going to end well for you!). players aren't stupid and you can tell when a class is overpowered or underpowered by how many of them you see in matches, i.e. mercs and powertechs. sorcs are well represented and if you are having a problem with them, that is your own fault, not a problem with the class. Agreed. Every day i see bunch of madness sorcs killing with dots many people on warzones in a short period of time whilst staying far away and laughing. These sorc criers say they want to be a new fotm, but players said "no". Lighting needs some utilities/rotation changes but not dps buff. Edited July 24, 2017 by omaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Yeah, leave please. We don't need new fotm here. Good bye operatives are the current FOTM, hopefully they will get nuked soon to make things fair. Also, if making channeled skills instantaneous for mdps didnt help, can you make rdps have the same instant attacks? Since they still got their dps kneecapped to make thing "fair" for mdps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottffsse Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) Yeah, leave please. We don't need new fotm here. Good bye Fury will be fotm after next patch in both PvE and PvP I am sure that will make you happy Edited July 24, 2017 by ottffsse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 can i haz ur stuff? ...but seriously, dps sorcs don't need any more changes. they do better dps than some of the newly nerfed classes and still have the best mobility in the game. they are perfectly fine in regs pvp if you play them correctly (hint: trying to face tank that jugg is not going to end well for you!). players aren't stupid and you can tell when a class is overpowered or underpowered by how many of them you see in matches, i.e. mercs and powertechs. sorcs are well represented and if you are having a problem with them, that is your own fault, not a problem with the class. balancing by counting heads is idiotic Smart people have the ability to measure actual dps output. Pvp is only a small part of the game, the devs need to stop breaking the game for players that think balance is achieved by counting noses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolxtren Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 Agreed. Every day i see bunch of madness sorcs killing with dots many people on warzones in a short period of time whilst staying far away and laughing. These sorc criers say they want to be a new fotm, but players said "no". Lighting needs some utilities/rotation changes but not dps buff. oh trust me its not the Sorc dots that kill people XDDDDD i bet you got this assumption from the score board where sorcs look like top ? even tough all is Aoe fluff dmg that barely scrach people right ? Also just jump on him instantly force his bubble then instantly kill him after it BAM done.... yes its that easy to kill a sorc... a sorc mobility is pretty crap when you have classes with like 3 CCs perma slows root spams and a bilion of capclosers all paired with a gadzilion of Def CDs... but sure live in your fairy tale world.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KumbayaGOD Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 uhmmm... you can roll into other class right ? there will always be strong and weak class on each patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottffsse Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 uhmmm... you can roll into other class right ? there will always be strong and weak class on each patch Not the point. Point is that sorc was clearly underbuffed in 5.3 that it i still nowhere clos to it's dps output target if that target is the same or near as IO merc, Eng Sniper (ie ranged sustain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevorteX Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Why can't we all agree on one major problem? Sorc DPS is not that much of an issue as it's problems in survability! Static barrier is weak and the God Buble is useless because it does nothing than leave you in a trap for 8 seconds without healing you. If the utility of Static Barrier is buffed a little to heal you or absorb more damage it will be much better than buffing the dps with some silly numbers like 100-200-300 dps more - will this have any effect in an 1vs1 situation? No. But buffing Static Barrier and making God buble usefull will have a bigger effect on the Class. The major thing is Sorc's defenses. I who main a Sorc am not a fan of buffing dps rather than buffing defences and utilities which will make the Sorc stronger in 1vs1 fights which is the actual problem in my opinion. I think we need to leave dummy parsleys and make 1571385731875635 tests to continue fighting with no effect. The real tests are regs,ranked and operations. If the Sorc does bad in those,then we must search for the problem deeper. And for the past more than a half a year,the sorc has one major problem - being pummeled to death with a few hits due to weak defences. There is a Madness Sorc in game with the name Kelevra or Keleva I can't remember quite right. I saw him in regs destroying people,playing ultimately good and very strategicly correct. I talked with him/her and we discussed that the issue for him is the class's defences,survability and a few utilities. 200-300 dps more won't change anything rather than people's satisfaction when seeing the class somewhere in the middle of parsley tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottffsse Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Why can't we all agree on one major problem? Sorc DPS is not that much of an issue as it's problems in survability! Static barrier is weak and the God Buble is useless because it does nothing than leave you in a trap for 8 seconds without healing you. If the utility of Static Barrier is buffed a little to heal you or absorb more damage it will be much better than buffing the dps with some silly numbers like 100-200-300 dps more - will this have any effect in an 1vs1 situation? No. But buffing Static Barrier and making God buble usefull will have a bigger effect on the Class. The major thing is Sorc's defenses. I who main a Sorc am not a fan of buffing dps rather than buffing defences and utilities which will make the Sorc stronger in 1vs1 fights which is the actual problem in my opinion. I think we need to leave dummy parsleys and make 1571385731875635 tests to continue fighting with no effect. The real tests are regs,ranked and operations. If the Sorc does bad in those,then we must search for the problem deeper. And for the past more than a half a year,the sorc has one major problem - being pummeled to death with a few hits due to weak defences. There is a Madness Sorc in game with the name Kelevra or Keleva I can't remember quite right. I saw him in regs destroying people,playing ultimately good and very strategicly correct. I talked with him/her and we discussed that the issue for him is the class's defences,survability and a few utilities. 200-300 dps more won't change anything rather than people's satisfaction when seeing the class somewhere in the middle of parsley tables. The problem is two-fold 1.) for PvE at least end-game PvE raiding madness dps is still simply and objectively, given how the other sustained rdps specs perfom too low, even after those nerfs and the very slight buff to madness. 2.) For PvP your post describes the issue -weak/undertuned DCDs on sorcs dps in general as of now. The solution is quite simple as in buff the dps for it to perform along the lines of other rdps sustained specs - that 200-300 extra dps "theoretical dps on static dummy" will not really do anything in PvP environment as pointed out, but it will correct a an imblance in PvE as of now. 2.) tweak the DcDs Force Barrier/ Force Armour to be more usueful on dps sorcs without going overboard. There is no reason not to do those two things if they are serious about balancing classes accurately. I get that there is a fear that when buffing or nerfing a class devs can "overdo it" and create fotm, but at least I hope they learned from the 5.0 patch that do it better in the future. But that apprehension is no reason not to fix the issues which are broke and should be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevorteX Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 The problem is two-fold 1.) for PvE at least end-game PvE raiding madness dps is still simply and objectively, given how the other sustained rdps specs perfom too low, even after those nerfs and the very slight buff to madness. 2.) For PvP your post describes the issue -weak/undertuned DCDs on sorcs dps in general as of now. The solution is quite simple as in buff the dps for it to perform along the lines of other rdps sustained specs - that 200-300 extra dps "theoretical dps on static dummy" will not really do anything in PvP environment as pointed out, but it will correct a an imblance in PvE as of now. 2.) tweak the DcDs Force Barrier/ Force Armour to be more usueful on dps sorcs without going overboard. There is no reason not to do those two things if they are serious about balancing classes accurately. I get that there is a fear that when buffing or nerfing a class devs can "overdo it" and create fotm, but at least I hope they learned from the 5.0 patch that do it better in the future. But that apprehension is no reason not to fix the issues which are broke and should be fixed. Your arugment is well layed out and I support it. I think this is what best describes the issue with DPS sorcs. Making them perfom on the line with their class balance system and making their defensive abilities actually do something. If this can be done accurately,it won't be FOTM it will just be a regular class like the others and it will be more productive in both PVE and PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omaan Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 oh trust me its not the Sorc dots that kill people XDDDDD i bet you got this assumption from the score board where sorcs look like top ? even tough all is Aoe fluff dmg that barely scrach people right ? Also just jump on him instantly force his bubble then instantly kill him after it BAM done.... yes its that easy to kill a sorc... a sorc mobility is pretty crap when you have classes with like 3 CCs perma slows root spams and a bilion of capclosers all paired with a gadzilion of Def CDs... but sure live in your fairy tale world.... Thats why i said it needs rotational/utilities changes lol but of course you are not reading. You see the problem but refuse to accept the right solution to it. If it has good dps but cant do much under pressure of other players than why the hell you ask for dps buff? It needs OTHER changes but not dps. Iam saying it all the time, you confirm that it has problems when others attack sorc but you still demand dps buff. Unsub and goodbye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trabble Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 years ago a madness sorc trolled a newb so hard that from this day on he flames BS in the forums.... @devs - pls buff madness / balance by another 5% and rework the utilities. thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumquy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) balancing by counting heads is idiotic Smart people have the ability to measure actual dps output. Pvp is only a small part of the game, the devs need to stop breaking the game for players that think balance is achieved by counting noses. i didn't say that they should balance around counting noses, i said that as a player, you can tell when their is an imbalance by the numbers you see around you. you want to talk statistics as a criteria for balancing? how about the fact that a third of all dps were mercs? how about that more than half of all operations healers were sorcs? so in your mind, that is not because they overperform and everyone knew it, it is instead just some kind of weird statistical fluke with no rational explanation? do you even fotm, bro? Edited July 25, 2017 by sumquy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I am going to ask this again (been asking this for months now) what is wrong with the lightning spec sorceress. I have one and have no problems with mine. Mine has pretty good gear (230-240 mixed) and augmented and have done some operations with no problems. I will admit I don't pvp but that is about the only thing I don't do and don't have problems with mine so again what is the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottffsse Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) I am going to ask this again (been asking this for months now) what is wrong with the lightning spec sorceress. I have one and have no problems with mine. Mine has pretty good gear (230-240 mixed) and augmented and have done some operations with no problems. I will admit I don't pvp but that is about the only thing I don't do and don't have problems with mine so again what is the problem? Nothing really except 1.) really week defensives for PvP, 2.) too low dps even in 248 for a few NiM/MM bosses. You can do 97% of the content on any spec really. But the defensives in PvP are a real problem for Lightning, and maybe 4-5 endgame Nim mode boss fights because of low dps. Edited July 26, 2017 by ottffsse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumquy Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) I am going to ask this again (been asking this for months now) what is wrong with the lightning spec sorceress. I have one and have no problems with mine. Mine has pretty good gear (230-240 mixed) and augmented and have done some operations with no problems. I will admit I don't pvp but that is about the only thing I don't do and don't have problems with mine so again what is the problem? the problem is that from 5.0 until very recently sorcs were at the low end of dps rankings. sorcs feel that this is blatantly unfair and that some other class should be lowest. this has snowballed into hyperbolic rants about how bad sorc is and sorc is not viable for operations and other useless drivel as they feed off of each others hysteria. for pvp the problem is mostly a l2p issue. sorc is one of the most mobile class in the game and to be played effectively, the have to use that to win. i do do a lot of pvp, and instead what i see from most sorcs is that they try to face tank like a merc and get destroyed. you can tell when you are up against a good sorc because he is very hard to pin down long enough to kill, but most of them are just bad. to be fair, part of this is bw fault. for almost all of 4.X sorcs were ridiculously op (like mercs are now) and lots of players rolled them. now that they are not, a lot of sorcs want bw to "fix" it and think that if they ***** about it enough then bw will. Edited July 26, 2017 by sumquy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaladan Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 yeah we're quite mobile but when i face fury maras and operatives, i don't feel mobile so much btw just to say i miss sooooo much the old tree discipline and the hybrid madness/lightning spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonVII Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 All I can say to the sorcs is, my powertech gently weeps. Join the club of the shat upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewlmenow Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) the problem is that from 3.0 until now sorcs were at the low end of dps rankings. sorcs feel that this is blatantly unfair and that they should get their time in the sun as well. This has led into getting tired about how bad sorc is and complaints about how sorc dps are not viable for nightmare operations because they couldn't meet dps checks until they were not 1 but 2 entire gear tiers above recommended gear levels. for pvp the problem is mostly a 2fold issue. 1st was that sorcs have little to no killing power, as their damage is effectively all fluff. 2nd sorc is one of the most mobile class in the game and to be played effectively, the have to use that to win, but with the plethora of mercs and engi snipers since 5.0 mobility can be limited especially with sorcs extreme susceptibility to enet. to be fair, part of this is bw fault. for almost all of 4.X sorcs were strong in yolo ranked due to good survivability (like mercs are now with strong defensives and bad dps, but not nearly as op on defensives) and lots of players rolled them. now that they have poor defensives, bad dps, and a weakness to the fotm specs, a lot of sorcs want bw to fix it and think that if they ***** about it enough then bw will. Fixed it for you Edited July 26, 2017 by Dewlmenow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumquy Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) Fixed it for you you left out the part about hyperbolic rants and useless drivel. this isn't so surprising, i guess, since you are full of it. i ran a dps sorc in nim ops in both 3.X and 4.X for full clears and i wasn't the only one in just my group, much less the game. this kind of exagerated bullshlt is exactly why nobody except your fellow hystericals take you seriously and why bw won't "fix" it. as for pvp, here you are just flat out lying. it wasn't just yolo ranked that had a sorc problem. the forums and gen chat were full of constant complaints about so many sorcs in regs. " extreme susceptibility to enet"? dafug does that even mean? do sorcs take more damage from it? is it a 70% slow instead of the 50% it is against all other classes? this is just more of the typical sorc narcissism that has overrun the sorc forum. dps that is better than half of the other ranged specs is "bad" and needs to be "fixed". the best mobility is not enough, you also want the best defensives too, all in one package. sorcs had their moment in the sun and it was a long pain in the *** for everyone else. Edited July 26, 2017 by sumquy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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