About the idea for 242 requirement for MM FP...

[Tsillah]

Oh, you right...

After all, Bioware has never done anything stupid and hasty.

 

/sarcasm

 

They have but in this case he stated specifically that they were going to do it first for the new FP HM only. I have only repeated what he specifically said and people just read over it.

 

I prefer that people react to what is actually said. I suppose that makes me weird.

[Kingsbount]

They have but in this case he stated specifically that they were going to do it first for the new FP HM only. I have only repeated what he specifically said and people just read over it.

 

I prefer that people react to what is actually said. I suppose that makes me weird.

 

I get it what you said mate.

But it doesn't matter what Keith said NOW.

Becouse they will fail.

They always do.

It's just a question of time.

[aerockyul]

Let's not bog things down with unnecessary bashing. This is for feedback on a proposed idea that may or may not see the light of day. They'll listen to constructive pros and cons over insults and self-defeating rhetoric. They won't necessarily respond but they will see how we feel about it.

[krfsm]

If they haven't changed it lately bolster in HMFPs put you at about 220 item level. [...] (Possibly they should give people augment bolster in FPs as they do in warzones. That would make a bit of impact as well.)

 

Bolster is at 238 not 220, apart from that your post makes perfect sense, lack of endgame gear isn't the key issue, lack of endgame abilities is a big factor and additionally why kicking lowbies in Hardmode Flashpoints assembled via Group Finder mostly makes the run much smoother.

 

It turns out the current bolster for HMFPs is 228. Also, if you lack augment for a slot you get compensated with 56 mastery and 37 endurance, equivalent to a 190 ilevel versatile augment (if such beasts existed).

 

Out of curiosity...I haven't really done the new FPs in HM because I gave up on FPs about 2-3 years ago. Would you say augments are neede for HM FPs?

 

See above - you lose a lot of tertiary stats (1344 points) and get about 60% of those points (784) back as mastery instead. That makes you run very unoptimized builds if you want to reach full accuracy. Also, you lose about 4k HP. Needed - probably no. Good to have - hell yes.

 

I feel that you are just reading titles here and missing out on a lot fo the context, the new flashpoint on master mode is supposed to be more difficult than the past ones, I understand you ran some easy flashpoint in 210 gear (Cause I guess it wasn't Blood Hunt or Battle of Rishi) and then you are trying to apply that example to the new flashpoint. Naturally, such an argument simply doesn't make sense, you cannot compare apples with oranges.

 

Since it's below bolster level, it doesn't really matter if it's 228, 210 or naked. (As long as you get to roughly correct accuracy post bolster. Plus at 210 you probably don't have 228 augments.)

[JediAkemi]

I feel like I need to bring up one of my old suggestions again.

 

Having all TFPs available to everyone from level 15 is a mistake because some, especially the Forged Alliances & Shadow of Revan ones, were built around having abilities that level 15s simply don't have.

 

As many of us may recall, back when Kuat was first added, it had a 15-54 mode and a 55 mode. It was designed around bolster.

Hammer Station was originally for levels 15-21 - so not a lot options were needed.

 

Before KotFE, there were two tiers of HFPs - H50s (Black Talon/Esseles, Boarding Party/Taral V, Foundry/Maelstrom Prison, Directive 7, Battle of Ilum, False Emperor, Kaon, and Lost Island) and H55s (Hammer Station, Athis, Mandalorian Raiders, Cademimu, Czerka Corporate Labs, Czerka Core Meltdown, Korriban Incursion, Assault of Tython, Depths of Manaan, Legacy of the Rakata, Blood Hunt, and Battle of Rishi).

 

So, where am I going with this?

 

As I have suggested before, at level 15 group-finder for Tactical/Veteran Flashpoints should offer Hammer Station, and Kuat.

Athis should be added at level 19 like it was before 4.0.

Mandalorian Raiders should be added at level 23.

Add Cademimu at level 27, Boarding Party/Taral V at level 31, Foundry/Maelstrom Prison at level 35, Red Reaper at level 43 (yes, there's a gap where Colicoid Wargame used to be), Directive 7 at level 47, Battle of Ilum, and False Emperor at level 50, Czerka Corporate Labs, Czerka Core Meltdown, Korriban Incursion, Assault of Tython, Depths of Manaan, and Legacy of the Rakata at level 55.

Then finally add Blood Hunt, and Battle of Rishi at around level 57.

 

In theory that means you don't get a mission that you don't have the tools for, and from a story perspective, you're less likely to run into a massive spoiler when you're just starting out.

For people at the top of the level scale, this approach would give an indication of which mission you're likely to get without (hopefully) messing up the daily reward.

If you see a level 15-18 in the team, you will know that you're getting Hammer Station or Kuat.

Lowest level team-mate is level 19-22? Hammer Station, Kuat, or Athis.

Etc, etc until level 57ish where everything is on the table.

 

Depending on how complicated the new Umbara Flashpoint is meant to be in Tactical/Veteran mode, perhaps not add it to group-finder until level 60 or 65, maybe even 70 if it's a real doozy.

 

For HFPs/MFPs it could work something like this.

Hit level 50 and you can queue for Black Talon/Esseles, Hammer Station, Athis, Boarding Party/Taral V, Foundry/Maelstrom Prison, and Directive 7.

At level 55, add Mandalorian Raiders, Cademimu, Battle of Ilum, and False Emperor to the list.

At level 60, add Red Reaper, Czerka Corporate Labs, Czerka Core Meltdown, Korriban Incursion, and Assault on Tython.

At level 65, add the real nasties. Kaon, Lost Island, Depths of Manaan, Legacy of the Rakata, Blood Hunt, and Battle of Rishi.

Then add the new Umbara one to the list at level 70.

 

It can't be that hard to code it as the group-finder reward used to account for rolling flashpoint brackets back in the old days anyway.

To me that seems like a solution to the problem of having group-finder potentially throwing people into content that they lack the tools to handle properly even with bolster.

Shouldn't even mess up queue times as options are added as characters level. Max level characters have all the options but have a bit more insurance against teammates with missing abilities. Unless I'm missing something, that's win-win.

[MissilyMilcasia]

People saying get good or craft the gear clearly need a reality check.

 

An average of 242 gear means the player needs to have either:

A) almost all of their gear be 242 gear (Hard Mode gear)

B) at least half be 248 gear with the rest being 236s (Nightmare Gear)

C) some combo of craftable 246s

 

That is a RIDICULOUS bar to set. Nothing in this game requires hardmode gear. If you're really good, you can do Nightmare modes in 230 gear. If you're really bad, you can't do nightmare modes in full 248 gear. Gear in this game is not a obstacle to doing content.

 

And there is such a small fraction of the playerbase who will meet this qualification. Way less than a quarter of all biowares subs even step foot in a hardmode or nightmare operation. The queue times for the Master Mode will be hours ESPECIALLY if you are not a tank.

 

And it would cost millions to gear a set of 246s crafted. Each piece alone is millions, and you'd need at least 7. Not everyone in this game has millions to spend on a whim.

 

I am a raider. Nothing is more irritating than getting in a flashpoint with people who just have no clue what theyre doing (ex. pretty much everytime I walk into core meltdown people used to not be able to do the first two bosses). But very rarely, if ever, has it been a "you just don't have the gear to do it". So many players are not in raiding guilds due to the collapse of the raiding community or don't have access to hardmode content. No one will do the master mode if this goes through.

 

At the very least Bioware, make it 236's or 230s. Story Mode content is easily accessible to everyone with bolster. Or maybe make it so that people who have never cleared master modes cannot queue up for it until they clear some master modes. I don't know the solution, but what has been specified is certainly not it.

 

And to people saying its just one flashpoint- it really isn't. If this is the content bioware is putting out, specifically this update where this is the ONLY storyline update, and this is likely the only actual challenge out of the three modes they put out, people have every right to complain if its a gated affair. Everyone should have access to it. Doesn't mean they should do it, but bioware determining which players are qualified is absurd.

Edited July 24, 2017 by MissilyMilcasia

[Kaldron_Fell]

Just yesterday, I did what I thought would be a quick *veteran* Cademimu. With people I knew even.

 

When we came to the final boss, everyone kept purposefully running into the rocket flames, thinking it would be a good way to kill the boss. Some of these guys had almost complete 248 gear. In the end, I had to do it all alone because I was the only one left standing.

 

Exactly how is a gear requirement going to fix problems like these?

 

And @Tsillah, if you've got 248 rating and just spam basic attacks and stand in stupid all the time ignoring mechanics, your group will wipe anyway. No level of gear will prevent that in HM, period.

[aerockyul]

I actually understand what some are saying about content being gated (from a sub's perspective).

 

I can do MM FPs easily now, in less than 242 gear. Many can do the gear in reeeeally low gear. Some can do it without gear completely.

 

If they implement the 242 requirement to all MM FPs (after their trial period with the new flashpoint), I would be gated from doing that content on all 12 of my toons simply because none of them except one is close to averaging 242.

 

So as a sub I'd be gated from doing content I can already do simply because of that proposed requirement.

 

 

inb4 premades would be allowed to go in together. The groupfinder aspect is the most widely used method to doing MM FPs, and there are daily rewards, weekly rewards, conquest rewards, and achievement rewards for doing these, and groupfinder plays a large role in that. Gating me from the groupfinder is not something I want to see as a sub.

 

 

 

 

If, not when, but IF, this proposed change were to go through, and they plan to ratchet up the difficulty to account for the 242 requirement, maybe they should take MM FPs out of the groupfinder altogether. Treat them like HM and MM Operations, in that you have to form a premade no matter what if you want to do them.

 

Would LFG on fleet in gen chat be faster for your own preferred MM FP than waiting for GF to pop? Probably yes. You'd have to walk to each mission's instance rather than queue up the shuttle through GF, but we're doing that already with HM and MM Operations.

[Andryah]

I actually understand what some are saying about content being gated (from a sub's perspective).

 

I can do MM FPs easily now, in less than 242 gear. Many can do the gear in reeeeally low gear. Some can do it without gear completely.

 

If they implement the 242 requirement to all MM FPs (after their trial period with the new flashpoint), I would be gated from doing that content on all 12 of my toons simply because none of them except one is close to averaging 242.

 

So as a sub I'd be gated from doing content I can already do simply because of that proposed requirement.

 

 

inb4 premades would be allowed to go in together. The groupfinder aspect is the most widely used method to doing MM FPs, and there are daily rewards, weekly rewards, conquest rewards, and achievement rewards for doing these, and groupfinder plays a large role in that. Gating me from the groupfinder is not something I want to see as a sub.

 

 

 

 

If, not when, but IF, this proposed change were to go through, and they plan to ratchet up the difficulty to account for the 242 requirement, maybe they should take MM FPs out of the groupfinder altogether. Treat them like HM and MM Operations, in that you have to form a premade no matter what if you want to do them.

 

Would LFG on fleet in gen chat be faster for your own preferred MM FP than waiting for GF to pop? Probably yes. You'd have to walk to each mission's instance rather than queue up the shuttle through GF, but we're doing that already with HM and MM Operations.

 

Gear Check as a mechanic for entering group content via a Group Finder (which you have to keep in mind means.. any player queing... good, average, bad, best gear, mediocre gear, bad gear) is by no means a perfect mechanic, but it does happen to be the most effective single screen for group finders in MMOs even today. Someday, some clever studio may find a better way... but until then.. gear checking is proven to be effective as a screening method.

 

Keep in mind.. they did not just make this idea up.... they are responding to a long and often asked for screening method for random grouping in Group Finder to help players avoid those that are simply not up to the task of the group encounter. They responded with the classic approach that is well proven to be fairly effective in MMOs.

 

Yes.. you can still get some clueless scrubs queuing with good enough gear and absent any sense of the encounter mechanics, attention to detail, or even any actual sense of good group play. But it IS a positive step in the right direction and it can and will be bypassed by players that form group outside of Group Finder (more then likely guild teams or teams of friends that play together regularly).

 

I do not and will never do random grouping in MMOs in the modern era of MMOs. So I have nothing invested in this one way or the other... but I DO recognize this has been asked for by players for a long time now.

 

This is a new FP.. and it is the hardest mode only where they will do the gear check. So, it's actually a good starting point for gear check in this MMO. If it goes well.. they will propagate it across more group content. If it goes badly, they will remove it, walk away, and never help random groupers using Group Finder ever again (based on how they have handled other controversial changes to the game over time).

 

Now.. is 242 gear check the right answer here? Since none of us have actually played the hard mode of the upcoming FP.. how on earth would any player actually know yet? Seriously... it's too soon to tell actually.

 

242 is two steps below the best gear in game now, so from a pure mechanics perspective, that makes good sense. Players that actually want to play harder content like what is coming are most likely already in some combination of 246 crafted and 248 GC drops, and perhaps some lower Set Bonus armor mods, and will all qualify on a gear check. A full set of 246s for example costs a non-crafter no more in credits then they paid for 240s 5 months ago, so I do not accept the claims by some that the gear check is set too high at this point.

 

That said.. if the real gripe by some here is that they want to get good gear drops that progress them via FP.. said players have simply NOT been paying attention to 5.x gearing methods at all. They DO need to make the drop rewards in the new FP on the highest difficulty rich and desirable enough that players can and will group to play it through and obtain the desired drops (which should include some unique decorations and skins for armor and weapons). I personally would like to see such drops be BoL so that the player that earned them can have them, but they cannot be sold or traded to other players. Why? I'm an old school MMO player, and some things simply should not be sellable or tradable to other players, and should have to be actually earned by doing the content.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Andryah

[aerockyul]

Gear Check as a mechanic for entering group content via a Group Finder (which you have to keep in mind means.. any player queing... good, average, bad, best gear, mediocre gear, bad gear) is by no means a perfect mechanic, but it does happen to be the most effective single screen for group finders in MMOs even today. Someday, some clever studio may find a better way... but until then.. gear checking is proven to be effective as a screening method.

 

Keep in mind.. they did not just make this idea up.... they are responding to a long and often asked for screening method for random grouping in Group Finder to help players avoid those that are simply not up to the task of the group encounter. They responded with the classic approach that is well proven to be fairly effective in MMOs.

 

Yes.. you can still get some clueless scrubs queuing with good enough gear and absent any sense of the encounter mechanics, attention to detail, or even any actual sense of good group play. But it IS a positive step in the right direction and it can and will be bypassed by players that form group outside of Group Finder (more then likely guild teams or teams of friends that play together regularly).

 

I do not and will never do random grouping in MMOs in the modern era of MMOs. So I have nothing invested in this one way or the other... but I DO recognize this has been asked for by players for a long time now.

 

This is a new FP.. and it is the hardest mode only where they will do the gear check. So, it's actually a good starting point for gear check in this MMO. If it goes well.. they will propagate it across more group content. If it goes badly, they will remove it, walk away, and never help random groupers using Group Finder ever again (based on how they have handled other controversial changes to the game over time).

 

Now.. is 242 gear check the right answer here? Since none of us have actually played the hard mode of the upcoming FP.. how on earth would any player actually know yet? Seriously... it's too soon to tell actually.

 

242 is two steps below the best gear in game now, so from a pure mechanics perspective, that makes good sense. Players that actually want to play harder content like what is coming are most likely already in some combination of 246 crafted and 248 GC drops, and perhaps some lower Set Bonus armor mods, and will all qualify on a gear check. A full set of 246s for example costs a non-crafter no more in credits then they paid for 240s 5 months ago, so I do not accept the claims by some that the gear check is set too high at this point.

 

That said.. if the real gripe by some here is that they want to get good gear drops that progress them via FP.. said players have simply NOT been paying attention to 5.x gearing methods at all. They DO need to make the drop rewards in the new FP on the highest difficulty rich and desirable enough that players can and will group to play it through and obtain the desired drops (which should include some unique decorations and skins for armor and weapons). I personally would like to see such drops be BoL so that the player that earned them can have them, but they cannot be sold or traded to other players. Why? I'm an old school MMO player, and some things simply should not be sellable or tradable to other players, and should have to be actually earned by doing the content.

 

We know the new MM FP is requiring the 242 alone. As we've said, that's fine if that's the way they're going to tune that FP. If the content, however, is only tuned to the point that a 230-average geared player could do it easily, the 242 is an unnecessary gate to people that can do it comfortably with lower gear (if it's designed the way current MM FPs are).

 

Actually, most players would likely welcome the challenge of harder MM's (some are too easy, some are just right), provided that they use a realistic requirement if they're going to gate people from the content through GF (the main way the majority of players access MM FPs). If they do not tune the existing flashpoints to 242, then they are unnecessarily gating a lot of people that can do the content in lesser/no gear. If they go through with the change (again, IF, I've not been speaking in absolutes, so don't take me that way), then they should tune the flashpoints as well to the gear required.

 

I think most people can recognize the difference in those two scenarios.

 

Make 242 a requirement, but tune the flashpoints to your requirement.

If you make 242 a requirement but leave them alone where they are literally "easy" enough that they can be run naked, that is going to massively affect the number of people who can do the content at all, let alone the number of people queuing through GF, which will crater an already low number of participants.

[cyrusramsey]

Meh. I've played MM FPs this cycle on almost 50 characters, on probably about 75 if you count previous cycles. I'm good at them, I have 100% achievements on all but one, that I all got via pugs, in which I usually carried others.

 

I will not have a single character in an average of 242 or above by the end of the current cycle.

 

I play veteran FPs now and then, but they usually leave me frustrated. I prefer tanking and healing over dps, yet randoms can just rush ahead without ever dying or click the heal things the moment I finally have something to heal. I would be playing one MM after the other if the queues weren't mostly empty already.

 

On my primary server, which is not at all a ghost town, a tank or healer can already be waiting for an hour or more before getting a pop. I'm sure I'm not the only player who likes to tank and/or heal that would be locked out by this completely.

 

It feels like a bad idea to me when I try to look at it objectively, and on top of that it does upset me that we get a new FP after years, and I'd have to stick to story or veteran modes if I want to experience it.

 

I'd say a 230 requirement would be reasonable, because 230s can now be reliably obtained without too much trouble.

 

As far as my personal experiences go, though, a lot more trouble would be avoided by locking the role checkbox to the current spec's role unless someone has field respec, and by not automatically having MM FPs ticked the moment someone hits lvl50. Those two things would've prevented nearly all failed runs I've had in recent years.

 

Adding gear that drops from HM ops as requirement to do a flashpoint.. really..

Edited July 25, 2017 by cyrusramsey

[IoNonSoEVero]

Throwing this out there as a suggestion...

 

There are a lot of players saying that they can, and regularly do, accomplish MM in less that 242 gear. How would people feel about a reputation system? With the Bounty Hunter contracts and rakghoul events, you get reputation based on successfully completing progressively harder missions, and that unlocks more missions.

 

What about something similar for this MM flashpoint? Not that you need gear, but that you need to have completed a certain number of other FPs on MM and built up the reputation for it. Because that would certainly certify that you are capable of handling the content/mechanics without having some finite gear requirement.

[aerockyul]

Throwing this out there as a suggestion...

 

There are a lot of players saying that they can, and regularly do, accomplish MM in less that 242 gear. How would people feel about a reputation system? With the Bounty Hunter contracts and rakghoul events, you get reputation based on successfully completing progressively harder missions, and that unlocks more missions.

 

What about something similar for this MM flashpoint? Not that you need gear, but that you need to have completed a certain number of other FPs on MM and built up the reputation for it. Because that would certainly certify that you are capable of handling the content/mechanics without having some finite gear requirement.

 

An interesting idea. What if you couldn't go into certain flashpoints that have certain mechanics until you've completed certain bosses in Eternal Championship (the ones that tell you what to do and require movement and raid-awareness). I see Eternal Championship as a sort of ability check for a lot of the mechanics that exist outside of EC. A lot of people have floated the idea of "proving" or "training" grounds in order to get to the harder content, and I viewed EC as an attempt to do that.

 

If they were really committed to "not slowing the group down" they'd add new bosses to the EC that cover all mechanics in the game, so new players and less confident players have a place to learn the mechanics without "slowing everyone down" by joining content for the first time blind.

 

MM FPs would only unlock if you were able to complete certain bosses in EC solo (with a companion, of course). I think this would provide a better idea of someone's abilities than someone's gear rating.

 

I am not saying, categorically, new players cannot learn MM FPs through trial and error. That's how MOST of us learned them. But if the idea exists that bad players are slowing down everyone's group because the people in that group forgot what it was like to be new and that someone once taught them, are we actually improving the game by gating new players in any way whatsoever (outside of leveling requirements)? Compound this problem with the fact that good players may not be able to help them because they're going to be gated also because their gear is ONLY averaging 240.

 

 

Ugh, the more I think about it the less I can justify the proposed idea from BW. Without increased rewards all around (CXP, cosmetic, decos) to entice people to do MM FPs, the GF option is doomed.

 

And for those of you hoping for this requirement to go live (again, I'm not speaking in absolutes) are you enjoying the slow MM FP GF queue as it is? Because it's only going to get longer.

[Torvai]

I can only agree with the OP and more.

 

If the new FP isn't specifically tuned for at least 242, there's no reason to implement something like this. Gear isn't an issue in FP's, as has been proven time and again by people undermanning FP's or doing them naked. Bolster takes care of gear. If you fail in a FP, gear is never the problem.

That's why it's stupid. In WoW they use something like this for ages now and it works like a charm. But it makes sense there because they don't have a bolster. We do.

 

Keith, if you want to do something sensible for FP's, implement a system akin to WoWs proving grounds, not a gear requirement.

[RikuvonDrake]

I can only agree with the OP and more.

 

If the new FP isn't specifically tuned for at least 242, there's no reason to implement something like this. Gear isn't an issue in FP's, as has been proven time and again by people undermanning FP's or doing them naked. Bolster takes care of gear. If you fail in a FP, gear is never the problem.

That's why it's stupid. In WoW they use something like this for ages now and it works like a charm. But it makes sense there because they don't have a bolster. We do.

 

Keith, if you want to do something sensible for FP's, implement a system akin to WoWs proving grounds, not a gear requirement.

 

Based on the recent podcast with Keith on Bad Feeling as well as some other of his posts, it's very likely that this new flash point on Master Mode will be far more difficult compared to earlier ones, thus justifying the gear requirement. Additionally, in the same podcast Keith did state that they wanted to introduce more features to Group Finder to ensure that more and more people use it, one of the thoughts he had was to increase the options and maybe this is a start?

[robertthebard]

Based on the recent podcast with Keith on Bad Feeling as well as some other of his posts, it's very likely that this new flash point on Master Mode will be far more difficult compared to earlier ones, thus justifying the gear requirement. Additionally, in the same podcast Keith did state that they wanted to introduce more features to Group Finder to ensure that more and more people use it, one of the thoughts he had was to increase the options and maybe this is a start?

 

It's a bad start. It doesn't address the issues that keep me from using it, such as group leaders that require NiM/MM level gear for Story modes. Leeroy Jenkins style DPS that rage against everyone else for their inability to function as a team member. This list is too extensive to even attempt to list here, and all contribute to why I don't use GF as a general rule. Requiring a gear score doesn't fix any of this, so how will that ensure more people use it?

 

If, as we can glean from this and other threads on the topic, it's going to lock people out, it will, in fact, have the opposite effect, in that players will instead have to walk up to do the FP, which means they don't need GF for it at all. Only time will tell if this is a good idea or not, but on the surface, it's not looking to be, since it doesn't address the issue that keeps some players, like myself, out of the queue in the first place, and, to be honest, there are no steps that BW could take that would.

[analyis]

Reading this thread it appears the 242 minimum gear requirement has been deemed a bad idea. I somewhat agree because the bolstering system has made gearing far less relevant than it was prior to 4.0.

 

Now to the issue of the group finder Q, I haven't Q'ed for master mode FPS without a pre-made group for close to a year because of the number of under geared, insta 70 zero chivos that q into blood hunt thinking the bolster makes them a god. The 242 min is a good start. What i would prefer is the elimination of bolster in any/all hm or nim content.

[casirabit]

Sorry wrong forum. Edited July 25, 2017 by casirabit

[Torvai]

Reading this thread it appears the 242 minimum gear requirement has been deemed a bad idea. I somewhat agree because the bolstering system has made gearing far less relevant than it was prior to 4.0.

 

Now to the issue of the group finder Q, I haven't Q'ed for master mode FPS without a pre-made group for close to a year because of the number of under geared, insta 70 zero chivos that q into blood hunt thinking the bolster makes them a god. The 242 min is a good start. What i would prefer is the elimination of bolster in any/all hm or nim content.

 

Yeah and instead of implementing a system that makes sure people actually have at least half an idea of what they're doing before being able to queue up, we're implementing a gear check. Seems like a sensible idea to me:rolleyes:

 

If you know what you're doing, gear is a non issue because we have bolster. And if you don't, gear won't save you either.

If it would there wouldn't be so much complaints about Blood Hunt or Battle of Rishi for example. Both of which have been two manned and Rishi even soloed.

 

And on the other hand, if I decide to play another character I can't queue up in the future because he's not geared? Great. That won't lead to me grinding gear, it will lead to me playing another game if I don't want to play my main.

 

Based on the recent podcast with Keith on Bad Feeling as well as some other of his posts, it's very likely that this new flash point on Master Mode will be far more difficult compared to earlier ones, thus justifying the gear requirement. Additionally, in the same podcast Keith did state that they wanted to introduce more features to Group Finder to ensure that more and more people use it, one of the thoughts he had was to increase the options and maybe this is a start?

 

I'm the first to welcome more challenging 4 man content outside of SM OPs, but I still think a gear requirement is a stupid idea for bolstered content.

In WoW it servers a function because they don't have bolster. Here it's unneccessary. The people claiming Blood Hunt is too hard while being fully 248 geared will also whine that Umbarra is too hard, even with a gear requirement. Simple as that.

But you know what WoW also has? Proving Grounds that at least most of the time make sure people are able to at least put out the numbers required for dungeons. If they were to implement something akin to that, yes, im all for it. I actually was hopin the eternal championchip would be it when they announced that. But gear requirement: No way.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Torvai

[Kaldron_Fell]

I must say I quite like the idea of having to take a sort of drivers license test for the hardest content. Such a thing could be useful not only for testing hardmode fitness, but also for teaching a few vital concepts often employed in boss fights that are now simply irrelevant before reaching end game content.

 

I don't know how this works in WoW since I haven't played it, but I could imagine such a test could happen in multiple stages and the farther you get, the more you are allowed to do. And it could also serve as a personal check to understand how good you really are, if your skill and your gear actually allow you to do hard end game content like HM OPs (not EV/KP obviously) or NiM ops.

 

They could even augment that was cheevos and titles and for people who actually like that, even the silly kind of nameplate deco they seem to fancy so much these days. It would be a check against your gear AND your skill, and that would be way more meaningful than an average gear check. Obviously this should be per toon, not per account.

 

So yeah, good idea!

[RikuvonDrake]

I think that introducing the possibility of having more options to customise group finder is great if Bioware wants it to be used by more player. A gear requirement or even an achievement requirement (of course being opt-in and not standard) is likely to ensure that more groups are created using the tool and includes more skilled players. At the moment most higher skilled players prefer to create a group in guild or using custom channels and then kick a PUG to make space for a healing companion.

 

If you can somehow ensure that the chances that you get a higher skilled PUG compared to the average player for harder content if you wish, I think that Group Finder might be used much more than it is at the moment.

[aerockyul]

I think that introducing the possibility of having more options to customise group finder is great if Bioware wants it to be used by more player. A gear requirement or even an achievement requirement (of course being opt-in and not standard) is likely to ensure that more groups are created using the tool and includes more skilled players. At the moment most higher skilled players prefer to create a group in guild or using custom channels and then kick a PUG to make space for a healing companion.

 

If you can somehow ensure that the chances that you get a higher skilled PUG compared to the average player for harder content if you wish, I think that Group Finder might be used much more than it is at the moment.

 

I am also a fan of more options. But what I envision is all the players who are really "great" and have the high gear requirement checked off are going to have a very small pool of other great players that will almost never pop. Yeah, you might get a great run in, but you might have to wait 1-2 hours for it to even pop.

 

Then you have the people who are on the other end, continuing their bad habits with each other in an also smaller pool of players, ensuring only the great stay great (alone) and the bad stay bad (with each other).

 

But again, more options is a good thing. I just see GF MM options being so hard to pop even with no checks at all other than lvl 50. More options will create fewer pops unless those options also come with more incentives to run the MM versions in the first place.

 

More options with no incentives will not work from a queue pop perspective. More options with incentives has a chance to revive the queues.

[aerockyul]

Keith, if you're still reading this thread--

The title of the thread was edited by someone other than me. The original thread title was "Keith--about the idea for 242 requirement for MM FP..."

 

Was this intentionally changed on your (BW's) end?

 

I totally understand you guys probably hate the threads directed at you by name. I think this is the first time I've titled a thread directed at you, but that was only because you made the roadmap discussion update and I wanted to be sure you got input from the forum base on this topic specifically instead of getting it lost in the 60 pages of your roadmap thread that addresses multiple topics.

 

Please let me (us) know if it drives you guys crazy when we direct threads at you. If it drives you crazy enough to edit titles without permission from the OP, we'd probably stop doing it if we know we shouldn't.