Seriously..

[Spyderwoman]

I log in today and saw we go an update. Cool, a new stronghold and unlocked more of the op. BUT...

 

Nerfs across the board. Healers were doing just fine, and because pvpers whined loud enough, they get a nerf.

You know, its hard enough to heal some of the noobs in flashpoints. People that disregard mechanics and roles..

just because of the " I am not good enough to kill them in a warzone, so they need a nerf"

Thanks for messing with pve, PvPers...thanks alot.

 

They explained why the nerfs were happening and its been well known it was coming, nothing to be shocked about and it was needed.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Sorry, I almost took anything you said seriously for a second.

 

Ditto until I read the word "triggered" in your post.

[SilverStarSeaker]

Ditto until I read the word "triggered" in your post.

 

Reread his posts and maybe you'll understand the extra point I was making with that ;3

 

Not that stating somome is triggered should trigger anyone though D:

Things really are getting strict.

Edited July 15, 2017 by SilverStarSeaker

[IanArgent]

Ironically, I found the sniper one to be easier. The champ grouping was indeed tedious. The issue with the colicoids comes down to Qyzen's inability, I guess, to tank them. This served to expose the "weakness" with the class "balance" they're performing; when you have to fill all three roles, which would include any time you're solo, you're going to have a "fun time" with it. We've been told repeatedly that H2s should be doable with a comp, and frankly, they are, but man, with the way things are, a Star Fortress is going to be a blast if one can't get a group, eh?

 

I know that people have alleged that various comps perform differently in different roles, but the most I've heard is that it's by groupings, and by that, Qyzen and Lokin/Tank should be in the same groups in Tank mode (tech melee tank). I'd forgotten I had Yuun at 30, or I would have used him, of course. I'm assuming you have all the Holocrons? I do, and the presence boost is a major difference in companion performance. I don't have all the class-sourced presence boosts yet, though, and wasn't running a presence stim.

 

HSF are "fun" in the sense you mean to solo; as is The Eternal Championship; depending on your class and companion.

[robertthebard]

A safe space lel

Who's the one who's triggered by a bunch of overpowered classes getting a nerf? xD

Maybe instead of crying on the forums, try actually learning how to pvp. Or I mean you could just stay fighting AI lel, I'm sure you've got all those dank SMs and heroic runs that really require as much OP classes as possible.

 

And pvp is mostly pve? Lmao

Sorry, I almost took anything you said seriously for a second.

 

I pvpd in Aion for 5 years or so. I pvpd in Rappelz for 6 years before that. The people that came over with me for the PvP from Aion were gone in the first 30 days. Why? They knew how to PvP, and didn't want to invest a lot of time educating the "pros" here. Hang on to that 123 Go here's your participation trophy "skill" though, it'll take you a long way in a game that has no bolster. Actually, it'll carry you straight to those forums, crying for nerfs on everyone, you know, sort of like what goes on here.

 

Ironically, according to my last guild leader, the AI was more challenging than 90% of the people on the opposing teams he faced here, regardless of which faction he was on. Says a whole lot about the quality of the PvP, doesn't it. I wonder, how fast would those queues start looking like the PvP servers did if they set up 5 level brackets, and removed bolster completely. Oh, the rage would almost be as strong as the post I'm quoting now, wouldn't it.

 

Edit: Actually, I wanted to add a couple more things they need to do:

 

Add repair costs, and take away the participation trophies. Quit treating PvP like snowflakes, they're supposed to be the best players in the game, let them actually have to work for their rewards, instead of being able to get them going afk in the corner.

Edited July 15, 2017 by robertthebard

[IanArgent]

IAdd repair costs, and take away the participation trophies. Quit treating PvP like snowflakes, they're supposed to be the best players in the game, let them actually have to work for their rewards, instead of being able to get them going afk in the corner.

 

Half the teams in PvP are going to lose, more or less by definition, and the individual's contribution may or may not help enough. They're all going to die and take damage at a much higher rate than in PvE. I can think of no better way to discourage PvP than to only reward the winning players, and to include repair costs.

[robertthebard]

Half the teams in PvP are going to lose, more or less by definition, and the individual's contribution may or may not help enough. They're all going to die and take damage at a much higher rate than in PvE. I can think of no better way to discourage PvP than to only reward the winning players, and to include repair costs.

 

That's the nature of PvP, someone wins, someone loses. There are no rewards for not completing FP/Ops, to a specified boss, and just getting to said boss, and wiping means you don't get paid. Welcome to the "real world"? These changes along with 5 level range brackets, and no bolster, which should read no bolster anywhere, will indeed separate the wheat from the chaff. Ultimately that will be good for the game, the people that aren't any good at PvP, but get paid anyway, for free, since there's no repair costs, will have to find some other way to leech the system.

[Toraak]

Add repair costs, and take away the participation trophies. Quit treating PvP like snowflakes, they're supposed to be the best players in the game, let them actually have to work for their rewards, instead of being able to get them going afk in the corner.

 

so what he's saying is (I want 5 hour queu times), because many who only do PvP wouldn't touch it with repair costs like that (those people don't touch PvE at all for credits or so they say on these forums), and many other's would quit PvP due to the fact no rewards would include no valor points, no CXP, and no unassembled components. Seems like a bad idea to me, and I don't really like PvP that much. I still do it and try my best, but don't care to learn to be a pro at it (and never will).

Edited July 15, 2017 by Toraak

[DarthSpuds]

 

so what he's saying is (I want 5 hour queu times), because many who only do PvP wouldn't touch it with repair costs like that (those people don't touch PvE at all for credits or so they say on these forums), and many other's would quit PvP due to the fact no rewards would include no valor points, no CXP, and no unassembled components. Seems like a bad idea to me, and I don't really like PvP that much. I still do it and try my best, but don't care to learn to be a pro at it (and never will).

 

But he is 100% correct.

 

I don't get the uber loot just for logging into the Iokath end-game content on hardest setting.

I have to actually be victorious over that content.

 

The same should be true of PvP.

 

PvP in MMORPGs invariably pander to players that want what WoW used to call "welfare epics" - epic gear for no skill, just a time investment.

You want the rewards?

Then WIN!

No rewards for 2nd place, except a repair bill.

Because that is all I'll get for failing in PvE.

 

The problem is that if that was how PvP was, most people wouldn't bother - because despite how much they claim otherwise its not about skill, perseverance, co-ordinated team effort etc. Its about "clocking in" for the phat loot.

 

I used to play FPS PvP in competitive leagues. Even on my best day I was never better than average. But the fun was that when I did get the reward I got it because I won, not just because I turned up.

 

In SWTOR PvPers get rewarded for just turning up.

 

All The Best

[DarthSpuds]

Half the teams in PvP are going to lose, more or less by definition, and the individual's contribution may or may not help enough. They're all going to die and take damage at a much higher rate than in PvE. I can think of no better way to discourage PvP than to only reward the winning players, and to include repair costs.

 

In your sig you have the line "You want the Things? Do some Work."

 

Rewarding PvPers just for turning up is the antithesis of that sentiment.

 

Just saying.

 

All The Best

[robertthebard]

so what he's saying is (I want 5 hour queu times), because many who only do PvP wouldn't touch it with repair costs like that (those people don't touch PvE at all for credits or so they say on these forums), and many other's would quit PvP due to the fact no rewards would include no valor points, no CXP, and no unassembled components. Seems like a bad idea to me, and I don't really like PvP that much. I still do it and try my best, but don't care to learn to be a pro at it (and never will).

 

The issue with this is what, exactly? The "best players in the game" don't have any consequences for losing. They may not get as much as the winners do, but they still get their rewards, and all for doing things up to and including going afk in a corner. Try that in an operation or FP. Good luck trying to figure out why you were vote kicked for behaving like you would in PvP. They claim they're the best, let them prove it. If they can't, stop building the game around what they perceive as problems.

[IanArgent]

In your sig you have the line "You want the Things? Do some Work."

 

Rewarding PvPers just for turning up is the antithesis of that sentiment.

 

Just saying.

 

All The Best

 

I'm a pretty casual PvP player; I'm getting farmed pretty consistently when I do show up. But I show up and do my best to do my duty; and if I've gotten lucky with my teammates and the opposition, I win. The cost is my time - I could be in PvP being a moderately annoying target dummy, or I could be out doing H2s or chapters or TFPs or Uprisings. That there are people who idle their way through PvP doing as little as possible, I'd love to see punished more effectively. If you want to make constructive suggestions on how to prevent people from idling in Warzones, that's one thing. But saying that half of the players in a warzone get nothing and like it when every player in a PvE group gets rewarded for their time is just not cool.

 

Turning up in a PvP zone and fighting and dieing is providing a service to every other PvPer. I'd like to see a little more of a sliding scale of rewards calibrated to contribution, but measuring contribution on an individual basis is a lot harder than it looks.

 

Repair costs are supposed to incent PvE players to avoid taking damage in the first place - but you don't actually want to incent PvP players to avoid damage, because then they will avoid playing. And nasty people in chat already do that well enough by themselves, not to mention the negative reinforcement of dieing multiple times in the 5-15 minutes a match lasts. Would you do Ops if you wiped not just in boss fights, but in trash fights, in story mode, and had to pay the repair costs for it, with a chance of getting nothing? PvP is a differnet game mode, with different carrots and sticks, than PvE.

[DarthSpuds]

But saying that half of the players in a warzone get nothing and like it when every player in a PvE group gets rewarded for their time is just not cool..

 

You only get rewarded in PvE for your time insofar as you win.

 

You can spend 10 hours in PvE if you want, but if you lose every fight you get NOTHING!! Except a hefty repair bill.

 

PvP should be the same.

 

All The Best

[krfsm]

You want the rewards?

Then WIN!

No rewards for 2nd place, except a repair bill.

Because that is all I'll get for failing in PvE.

 

But you slaughtered a metric ton of trash mobs on the way to the boss, gaining super easy cxp and cash on the way. Besides, pvpers don't earn very much cash or cxp unless they do something worthwhile.

[DarthSpuds]

But you slaughtered a metric ton of trash mobs on the way to the boss, gaining super easy cxp and cash on the way. .

 

Only if I win against those mobs.

 

Win = Reward

Lose = No Reward

 

Which part of that is too difficult to grasp?

Which part of it is too scary?

 

All The Best

[IanArgent]

Everybody in PvE can win. Half the people in PvP will lose. By definition. If you don't see that, I can't make you.

[robertthebard]

I'm a pretty casual PvP player; I'm getting farmed pretty consistently when I do show up. But I show up and do my best to do my duty; and if I've gotten lucky with my teammates and the opposition, I win. The cost is my time - I could be in PvP being a moderately annoying target dummy, or I could be out doing H2s or chapters or TFPs or Uprisings. That there are people who idle their way through PvP doing as little as possible, I'd love to see punished more effectively. If you want to make constructive suggestions on how to prevent people from idling in Warzones, that's one thing. But saying that half of the players in a warzone get nothing and like it when every player in a PvE group gets rewarded for their time is just not cool.

 

Turning up in a PvP zone and fighting and dieing is providing a service to every other PvPer. I'd like to see a little more of a sliding scale of rewards calibrated to contribution, but measuring contribution on an individual basis is a lot harder than it looks.

 

Repair costs are supposed to incent PvE players to avoid taking damage in the first place - but you don't actually want to incent PvP players to avoid damage, because then they will avoid playing. And nasty people in chat already do that well enough by themselves, not to mention the negative reinforcement of dieing multiple times in the 5-15 minutes a match lasts. Would you do Ops if you wiped not just in boss fights, but in trash fights, in story mode, and had to pay the repair costs for it, with a chance of getting nothing? PvP is a differnet game mode, with different carrots and sticks, than PvE.

 

Meanwhile, if we wipe on the last boss in Dread Fortress, which is also an investment in time, we get nothing but that repair bill. Yep, PvP totally has a larger time investment than that, except it really doesn't, does it. With good queue times you can do what, 4 WZs in the time it takes to run DF? So you'll be paid 4 times, and a wiped DF group won't be paid at all. Spare me "but my time" arguments for 15 minute intervals where you can go AFK the whole time and still get rewarded for your "time".

 

Here's the flaw in your logic: No matter what, in PvE, even trash mobs can cost you a repair bill. Some will be small, some not so much, but they all cost. How much does it cost you to get your PvP rewards? Nothing? You get paid, even if you don't do anything at all? Yep, seems like PvP life is really hard in swtor. Maybe it needs to be turned up so that some of these players are forced to learn to play, instead of linking "Look what I got for being AFK for two weeks"...

[robertthebard]

Everybody in PvE can win. Half the people in PvP will lose. By definition. If you don't see that, I can't make you.

 

Even if I do win, it costs me the time, and credits to play. If you can't see that, I can't make you. This is the only game I know of that will reward one for being AFK the whole time in PvP. Seems legit, eh?

[JediAkemi]

If you're AFK for the whole warzone and don't have stealth, you'll be killed and auto-booted a minute or so later... also you have to do something in a warzone to qualify for any reward at the end whatsoever so your argument is pretty much moot.

Besides, unless it's Huttball, why even queue if you're not going to try?

[mmmbuddah]

I log in today and saw we go an update. Cool, a new stronghold and unlocked more of the op. BUT...

 

Nerfs across the board. Healers were doing just fine, and because pvpers whined loud enough, they get a nerf.

You know, its hard enough to heal some of the noobs in flashpoints. People that disregard mechanics and roles..

just because of the " I am not good enough to kill them in a warzone, so they need a nerf"

Thanks for messing with pve, PvPers...thanks alot.

 

Sorc healers were not fine, they were far too easy to use and far too powerful. Welcome to healing now. Not to ezmode.

[DarthSpuds]

Everybody in PvE can win. Half the people in PvP will lose. By definition. If you don't see that, I can't make you.

 

Everybody in PvE can also lose. That's how the game works.

Win, you get rewarded; lose, you don't.

Except in PvP where win, lose or do nothing you'll get some welfare rewards.

 

All The Best

[IanArgent]

Your arguments have convinced me that I should stop arguing; there's no way I can rebut them.

 

/unsubthread.

[Foambreaker]

Everybody in PvE can also lose. That's how the game works.

Win, you get rewarded; lose, you don't.

Except in PvP where win, lose or do nothing you'll get some welfare rewards.

 

All The Best

 

Winning against AI created by BW and a human are not the same level of difficulty

 

With PvE you watch the vid, copy what they do in the vid and "win".

With PvP you spend months and years honing your skills and your reactions to all the abilities in all the other classes.

 

Humans > BW AI

[Toraak]

The issue with this is what, exactly? The "best players in the game" don't have any consequences for losing. They may not get as much as the winners do, but they still get their rewards, and all for doing things up to and including going afk in a corner. Try that in an operation or FP. Good luck trying to figure out why you were vote kicked for behaving like you would in PvP. They claim they're the best, let them prove it. If they can't, stop building the game around what they perceive as problems.

 

Just because people PvP doesn't make them the best players in the game. stop spouting that nonsense. PvE players can be just as good as PvP players, and not be interested at all in PvP. Yes PvE player do need to complete the content for the gear, but at the same time PvE players can not upgrade gear at all from PvE content like PvP players can.

 

Not to mention BW will NEVER intentionally make it so that only the winning side gets rewards for PvP. Discouraging many of the playerbase like that from doing an activity would lengthen Q times, which is the one thing they have always worked to shorten, whether it's PvP queu's or PvE queu's.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Toraak

[robertthebard]

Winning against AI created by BW and a human are not the same level of difficulty

 

With PvE you watch the vid, copy what they do in the vid and "win".

With PvP you spend months and years honing your skills and your reactions to all the abilities in all the other classes.

 

Humans > BW AI

 

I can tell by reading all the "nerf xxxx" threads that exist all over the internet when it comes to PvP. The rock paper scissors meme is a meme for a reason: PvPers have to have classes they can't beat nerfed, and classes they play always need buffed. Wait, I'm sorry, you meant forum rage skills, right? Tell me, what other MMOs do you PvP in? If any, do you get participation trophies there too, or is that the main draw: Check it out guys, swtor pays you for PvP even if you lose. Tell me, how long would you be here for PvP if they didn't pay you for losing?