Wake up people!

[ufasach]

LOL at all the busy bees fighting their pedantic crusade, quoting and responding point by point safe in the warm glow of being asked by Eric what they think. How special they feel because he didn't mean everybody, he really meant them. Now is their moment to shine, to show off their encyclopedic knowledge, to have their considered wisdom listened to and implemented.

 

Eric doesn't care what you think. If he did it would be reflected in the game by now. In one easy post on a passive he has misdirected the focus of a large amount of the community until 5.3, on a topic designed to provoke disagreement while he gets away with overseeing a ridiculous lack of class balance, no new content, bugged warzones, ranked pvp that is a toxic cheat-zone with leaderboards that don't work, falling subscriptions & semi-deserted servers in a game which is based on the most popular lore in the history of science fiction.

How easily led you are.

How easily programmed you are.

How easy it is for them to get your subscription every month with nothing new in return.

Stop arguing with each other.

Find what you agree on and demand it in unison.

They will have no choice but to give it to you.

Until that happens you are just sheep being sheared.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

LOL at all the busy bees fighting their pedantic crusade, quoting and responding point by point safe in the warm glow of being asked by Eric what they think. How special they feel because he didn't mean everybody, he really meant them. Now is their moment to shine, to show off their encyclopedic knowledge, to have their considered wisdom listened to and implemented.

 

Eric doesn't care what you think. If he did it would be reflected in the game by now. In one easy post on a passive he has misdirected the focus of a large amount of the community until 5.3, on a topic designed to provoke disagreement while he gets away with overseeing a ridiculous lack of class balance, no new content, bugged warzones, ranked pvp that is a toxic cheat-zone with leaderboards that don't work, falling subscriptions & semi-deserted servers in a game which is based on the most popular lore in the history of science fiction.

How easily led you are.

How easily programmed you are.

How easy it is for them to get your subscription every month with nothing new in return.

Stop arguing with each other.

Find what you agree on and demand it in unison.

They will have no choice but to give it to you.

Until that happens you are just sheep being sheared.

 

 

Most people know this. After all it's pretty obvious they could care less about the overall opinions of players, they put on a show asking for input for political correctness. People know it but, most probably deep down figure they got nothing to lose by saying their peace.

 

Besides, at the end of the day, most gamers like a good brawl. Forums are a safe place to argue and point fingers.

 

When you have nothing to lose by trying, you can only gain.

[WickedGonzo]

Musco is a very bad community manager. His job is to literally read the opinions of people and send them over to the devs. I can't comprehend how he calls what he just did 'class balance'.

 

• Mercs will still be insanely broken in PvP while being ruined in PvE. Damage was not the problem, DCDs were.
   
  
• Snipers are rekt.
   
  
• Jugg dps is still garbage in PvP and the focus target in ranked.
   
  
• Powertechs (yes all 3 specs) are the absolute worst class you can play in PvP. DAMAGE IS NOT THE PROBLEM, DCDs ARE. POWERTECHS GET GLOBALLED THROUGH KOLTO + SHIELD.
   
  
• Sorc dps is still utter garbage AND has ****** defenses.
   
  
• Ranked leaderboards (A SUB ONLY BENEFIT) are still broken.
   
  
• Not to mention the fact that if I wanna play alts sporadically like I used to in 4.0 I need to either spend 15m credits (I have 40m across all my toons, to put that into perspective) to gear up left side (assuming I'm using 248 legacy gear from other toons and don't want to have set bonus) or spend the next 2 months trying to gear the alt up (2 months, because I'm not 15 years old with a 3 month summer holiday which I can spend inside the house grinding boring ops).
  

 

Keith save us from this joke. You hopefully understand the game better. People say ESO game developers are bad when it comes to interacting with the community but holy hell BW Austin makes them look like little kids.

Edited July 5, 2017 by WickedGonzo

[mmmbuddah]

Musco is a very bad community manager. His job is to literally read the opinions of people and send them over to the devs. I can't comprehend how he calls what he just did 'class balance'.

 

• Mercs will still be insanely broken in PvP while being ruined in PvE. Damage was not the problem, DCDs were.
   
  
• Snipers are rekt.
   
  
• Jugg dps is still garbage in PvP and the focus target in ranked.
   
  
• Powertechs (yes all 3 specs) are the absolute worst class you can play in PvP. DAMAGE IS NOT THE PROBLEM, DCDs ARE. POWERTECHS GET GLOBALLED THROUGH KOLTO + SHIELD.
   
  
• Sorc dps is still utter garbage AND has ****** defenses.
   
  
• Ranked leaderboards (A SUB ONLY BENEFIT) are still broken.
   
  
• Not to mention the fact that if I wanna play alts sporadically like I used to in 4.0 I need to either spend 15m credits (I have 40m across all my toons, to put that into perspective) to gear up left side (assuming I'm using 248 legacy gear from other toons and don't want to have set bonus) or spend the next 2 months trying to gear the alt up (2 months, because I'm not 15 years old with a 3 month summer holiday which I can spend inside the house grinding boring ops).
  

 

Keith save us from this joke. You hopefully understand the game better. People say ESO game developers are bad when it comes to interacting with the community but holy hell BW Austin makes them look like little kids.

 

ESO devs are bad at communicating, but they do at least listen. As shown by one tamriel way back, and the introduction of a class that is healer, dps and tank. If I had the money to buy the new expansion, I would be there atm. But RL takes priority.

[cagthehack]

ESO devs are bad at communicating, but they do at least listen. As shown by one tamriel way back, and the introduction of a class that is healer, dps and tank. If I had the money to buy the new expansion, I would be there atm. But RL takes priority.

 

I've heard good things about ESO. Seriously considering making the jump. I also thought about going back to WOW. But I played that game from 2004 to 2011. I just, just can't go back to WOW. But there always Eve (I used to play Eve).

 

So if by the next expac, **** hasn't gotten better I'm gone. I know no one gives a ****. But frankly, all my friends are asking me why I still play SWTOR. That's a damn good question.

[Elusive_Thing]

Musco is a very bad community manager. His job is to literally read the opinions of people and send them over to the devs. I can't comprehend how he calls what he just did 'class balance'.

And what if he sends the information to the devs? You have no way of knowing what he tells them, could just be that the community's opinions have had very little bearing on the devs' actions.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Blaming Muscu for class balance is silly. He has absolutely no say in any of that what soever. He may do some playtesting but by and large He is community relations, he's like an Ambassador for SWTOR. Ambassadors don't get a say in military matters, armaments, or attack strategies, they are go betweens and send messages back and forth.

 

Of course he has to defend BW, that's who pays him. He may disgree with a alot of things they do, but he can't admit that in a public forum. I do not blame him in the least.

 

That stream where he announced that mercs were getting nerfed and the guy he was with started fist pumping in righteous indignation was hilarious as hell, and you could tell Musco didn't love that he had to announce the merc nerf.

 

The reality is, whether you agree with changes being made or not, it's their game they can do whatever they want with it. We have only two options, we can play it, or we can stop playing it. We don't get a say in any of it. We never did, we never will. Suggestions are all well and good, but you can pretty much count on if they have already announced some change, the decision has already been made and it will occur whether or not they ask you for your opinion.

 

In my opinion, every single woman in the world should want to have sex with me. For the most part, they disagree [which really sucks]. Our opinions matter very little when it comes to the decisions of others. BW is going to do what they want to do, because they're the guys who give out the lightsabers that we play with and they know it.

[Kurj]

I don't think there is any grand conspiracy by the devs to hoodwink the players. They are trying to change the relationship with the players after years of poor management and crappy game design. Obviously, there is a ton of s**t to clear out of the well before you get to the good water, and we are watching that now.

 

It's also very easy to post an opinion, and claim you are sure what the "real problem" is, when you don't have to confront the actual data that may tell you otherwise. Like it or not, only the devs have access to actual subscription numbers and trends, or the "reasons for leaving" info that may go with an unsubscribe (assuming that is worth much at all). Is the fall-off in population more drastic than would be expected with the coming of summer? We don't know, and they can't or won't tell us what that data discloses, but I have sincere doubts that they are choosing courses of action that are "obviously" wrong from this vantage point.

 

I continue to believe this: if they had stuck with releasing balanced expacs, a la Makeb, a la SoR, I sincerely doubt that we would be having these conversations now, even if they had implemented GC. Players will wade through loads of grind - if it is associated with new content. They've been shoving gear grinds down our throats with no associated new group content for over 2 years now. What is going on is no surprise, and all of the bandaids in the world aren't going to take the place of new content.

[Going]

Wow, do you guys understand how they are choosing to go about class balance? They already stated that dps and hps values will be adjusted first. utils will come later. calm down, eat a snickers.

 

Secondly, Eric has done the best he can at the job he is in. He cannot make the things happen that you forum warriors think are so easily possible. He isn't a "dev" He communicates not only based on what the forums say. Data is what this company uses to determine whats best for the game. So does every other game. Again..eat a snickers and stop flaming people for doing their job.

[Wimbleton]

This game is simply a different version of what it always is. It's not well managed.. true. But it is what it is. If you cannot handle the volatility then I'd suggest you find new game. It's always going to be this way. You've got to always reassess after every change and figure out what you want to get out of the game. If competitive PVP play is what you want then, just as before, you can either stick with your nerfed/buffed class or play something else thats not in as bad of shape.

 

P simple.

 

BTW: This kind of shakeup/lack of proper management/poor development etc will continue to happen over and over again for as long as this game stays alive.

 

IT

 

WILL

 

NOT

 

CHANGE

 

Deal with it.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Wimbleton

[Going]

This game is simply a different version of what it always is. It's not well managed.. true. But it is what it is. If you cannot handle the volatility then I'd suggest you find new game. It's always going to be this way. You've got to always reassess after every change and figure out what you want to get out of the game. If competitive PVP play is what you want then, just as before, you can either stick with your nerfed/buffed class or play something else thats not in as bad of shape.

 

P simple.

 

BTW: This kind of shakeup/lack of proper management/poor development etc will continue to happen over and over again for as long as this game stays alive.

 

IT

 

WILL

 

NOT

 

CHANGE

 

Deal with it.

 

Here we have a prime example of someone with logic...and yeah.. logic

[ufasach]

I don't think there is any grand conspiracy by the devs to hoodwink the players. They are trying to change the relationship with the players after years of poor management and crappy game design. Obviously, there is a ton of s**t to clear out of the well before you get to the good water, and we are watching that now.

 

It's also very easy to post an opinion, and claim you are sure what the "real problem" is, when you don't have to confront the actual data that may tell you otherwise. Like it or not, only the devs have access to actual subscription numbers and trends, or the "reasons for leaving" info that may go with an unsubscribe (assuming that is worth much at all). Is the fall-off in population more drastic than would be expected with the coming of summer? We don't know, and they can't or won't tell us what that data discloses, but I have sincere doubts that they are choosing courses of action that are "obviously" wrong from this vantage point.

 

I continue to believe this: if they had stuck with releasing balanced expacs, a la Makeb, a la SoR, I sincerely doubt that we would be having these conversations now, even if they had implemented GC. Players will wade through loads of grind - if it is associated with new content. They've been shoving gear grinds down our throats with no associated new group content for over 2 years now. What is going on is no surprise, and all of the bandaids in the world aren't going to take the place of new content.

 

Let me respond with a shortened version of what I am getting at as we agree on the content issue which is important.

Using words like conspiracy is unhelpful. Policy shapes action and many factors shape policy.

As long as subscribers are being drawn to pedantic straw man debates rather than organising around what they desire in common and expressing it to Bioware, this game will not improve either in content or policy.

 

If the majority of subscribers for example put pressure on a particular issue, that issue would be the subject of the next update. They would have no choice but to make it so.

I am an average player nobody who doesn't even bother with a guild but there are many who post here who have a certain gravitas with other subscribers. Were those people to organise and choose one issue at a time, they could achieve much.

That is my point.

Thank you.

[mmmbuddah]

I've heard good things about ESO. Seriously considering making the jump. I also thought about going back to WOW. But I played that game from 2004 to 2011. I just, just can't go back to WOW. But there always Eve (I used to play Eve).

 

So if by the next expac, **** hasn't gotten better I'm gone. I know no one gives a ****. But frankly, all my friends are asking me why I still play SWTOR. That's a damn good question.

 

All my friends say the same thing. I am currently happy that they are going to focusing on everything in the future instead of just solo, and kinda happy with their balancing -attempts- so ill stick around for a while. But if we have another GC or solo only catastrophe again. I am doner than done.

[Kurj]

Let me respond with a shortened version of what I am getting at as we agree on the content issue which is important.

Using words like conspiracy is unhelpful. Policy shapes action and many factors shape policy.

As long as subscribers are being drawn to pedantic straw man debates rather than organising around what they desire in common and expressing it to Bioware, this game will not improve either in content or policy.

 

If the majority of subscribers for example put pressure on a particular issue, that issue would be the subject of the next update. They would have no choice but to make it so.

I am an average player nobody who doesn't even bother with a guild but there are many who post here who have a certain gravitas with other subscribers. Were those people to organise and choose one issue at a time, they could achieve much.

That is my point.

Thank you.

 

Then we basically agree. I used the word "conspiracy" because I thought you meant that Eric was intentionally leading players astray with the bolster thread, based on phrases like "easily led" and "programmed". I think the thread exists because huge numbers of players are obsessed with bolster as the holy grail of game fixes, and were basically demanding to have the discussion.

[ufasach]

Then we basically agree. I used the word "conspiracy" because I thought you meant that Eric was intentionally leading players astray with the bolster thread, based on phrases like "easily led" and "programmed". I think the thread exists because huge numbers of players are obsessed with bolster as the holy grail of game fixes, and were basically demanding to have the discussion.

 

I am in the minority on Bolster. I was against it when it was introduced and I am against it now. All it does is increase the advantage of any FOTM class so that even when not geared the can wreck all round them .

 

It also occurs to me that it Bioware could individually adjust the bolster level for each class as a temp fix for balancing issues but that would be far too simple a fix for them and I strongly suspect that rotating FOTM classes is and always has been their model. There is 7 years of evidence to support this view.

[Kurj]

I am in the minority on Bolster. I was against it when it was introduced and I am against it now. All it does is increase the advantage of any FOTM class so that even when not geared the can wreck all round them .

 

It also occurs to me that it Bioware could individually adjust the bolster level for each class as a temp fix for balancing issues but that would be far too simple a fix for them and I strongly suspect that rotating FOTM classes is and always has been their model. There is 7 years of evidence to support this view.

 

That is an interesting way to look at it. I agree that they intentionally create FOTM classes to cater to new or lazy players, but I hadn't considered how bolster affects that.

 

I'm in the middle on bolster. I think it's a valid mechanic to help new players or new mains ease into PVP, and I think it does it's job just fine at the current level. But it makes no sense to me to raise bolster to fix a gearing system. Just fix the gearing system. They could do that very easily by lowering token costs on Tier 1, and lowering UC costs on Tier 2 and Tier 3, which wouldn't affect OPs at all since it's very easy to get 242 in OPs. Why they refuse to implement that simple solution is kind of beyond me.