Class Changes: Madness Sorcerer / Balance Sage

[Hichitsuki-hime]

haha lol

 

1.) The simulation was done with 1 madness sorc vs one "dummy" opponent so we do not see any issue of stacks in the simulation, it is working as intended.

2.) The nature of sorcs require them to kite and run from "dummy" anyways and in that time they can restore their force so what's the problem?

3.) Resources were "checked off" in our simulations for all our class dps tests so our algos could execute the best rotation of abilities, so we did not see any problems of the advanced classes achieving their intended dps output over a 5 minute stretch. Given point 2.) above, we do not see any changes necessary in that regard to the Madness/ Balance advanced class.

 

Hope this helps! Your devs team.

 

lol if we get an official response like that, that'll be the day i unsub :D

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

i am tired of these community where people that dont play NIM give some sort of recommendations.

 

Coming from someone who has cleared a good amount of NiM content, this statement is one of the more stupid I have seen of late.

 

Because you have cleared NiM content, doesn't mean you were good at it, weren't carried, or didn't only clear it once.

Furtermore, you can say having cleared EV KP NiM means you have cleared NiM content, but that would be nothing more than a technicality.

 

Does NiM take skill and experience to do well at? Absolutely. Does it mean that automatically make you more skilled than every other player that hasn't cleared or cleared as much NiM Content as you, it absolutely does not.

 

Furthermore, having cleared NiM content, in no way shape of form makes you more qualified in discussing aspects of the game that are not inherently intertwined with NiM content.

 

I've cleared NiM content, I couldn't possibly be less informed about crafting, PT Tanking, any heal spec in the entire game, the IO Rotation, kiting, GSF, Conquest, pubside [except that they can't PVP, that I know =p], how to make dyes, how the lightning spec glitch [expliot] works, the proper context of using the word "meme", or why people think saying things like "git gud", calling others "non-entities", or saying they are "triggered" in any way shape means they themselves are good and that they are anything other than AssO's by even merely using the termonology. If you ever say "git gud" to anyone else other than to say they are idiots for using the term, they're idiots. Ergo, Virginity is hard.

 

You are not better than anyone else, you are not famous, your words do not carry any more weight than anyone elses', in fact in making this statement your opinions on any subject in the future I will give less credence to.

 

This statement does make one thing quite clear and as far as I'm concerned, not open to much interpretation, and that is, if you are a male, it's very very small.

 

If you thought this statement raised your stature here on the forums, you thought wrong.

 

You don't get to decide how valid the statements of others are, everyone else does for themselves.

Edited July 2, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[trabble]

haha lol

 

1.) The simulation was done with 1 madness sorc vs one "dummy" opponent so we do not see any issue of stacks in the simulation, it is working as intended.

2.) The nature of sorcs require them to kite and run from "dummy" anyways and in that time they can restore their force so what's the problem?

3.) Resources were "checked off" in our simulations for all our class dps tests so our algos could execute the best rotation of abilities, so we did not see any problems of the advanced classes achieving their intended dps output over a 5 minute stretch. Given point 2.) above, we do not see any changes necessary in that regard to the Madness/ Balance advanced class.

 

Hope this helps! Your devs team.

 

Thanks DEV for beeing honest.

[Hoppinswtor]

Pretentious/arrogant prog raiders are the worst. Most PVPers excel at PvE; most PvErs can't crack 5k dps in pvp. Edited July 2, 2017 by Hoppinswtor

[PhantomWarlock]

Alright, let's break these changes down using current data.

 

BASICS

 

Death Mark's Damage Bonus counts for 5 ticks of the 3 DoTs (Crushed(Demolish), Creeping Terror and Affliction).

Creeping Terror and Affliction both tick 15 times, while Crushed(Demolish) ticks 9 times.

Death Mark therefore benefits 5 out of 18 ticks for Creeping Terror and Affliction and 5 out of 9 for Crushed(Demolish).

 

 

DEATH MARK BONUS DAMAGE BREAKDOWN

 

The Damage Bonus from Death Mark broken down by DoT so far is therefore:

Crushed(Demolish): 1.10 * 5/9 + 4/9

Creeping Terror: 1.10 * 5/18 + 13/18

Affliction: 1.10 * 5/18 + 13/18

 

The Damage Bonus from Death Mark in 5.3 will be:

Crushed(Demolish): 1.15 * 5/9 + 4/9

Creeping Terror: 1.15 * 5/18 + 13/18

Affliction: 1.15 * 5/18 + 13/18

 

DPS INCREASE IN 5.3

 

Therefore we see the following increases in DPS:

Crushed(Demolish): (1.15 * 5/9 + 4/9) / (1.10 * 5/9 + 4/9) = 102.63%

Creeping Terror: (1.15 * 5/18 + 13/18) / (1.10 * 5/18 + 13/18) = 101.35%

Affliction: (1.15 * 5/18 + 13/18) / (1.10 * 5/18 + 13/18) = 101.35%

Force Leech: 1.30 / 1.25 = 104.00%

 

 

Now, let's apply these numbers to the current top-parsing Sorcerer/ Sage.

The top-parsing Sorc/ Sage on a 2500000 HP dummy does 9386.3 DPS.

 

 

DPS BREAKDOWN BY ABILITY

 

If we brake down the DPS by ability, we get:

Crushed(Demolish): 1385.46 DPS

Creeping Terror: 1223.85 DPS

Affliction: 1060.05 DPS

Force Leech: 1146.44 DPS

All other abilities: 4570.5 DPS

TOTAL: 9386.3 DPS

 

With the changes in 5.3 the DPS - breakdown would look like this:

Crushed(Demolish): 1385.46 * 102.63% = 1421.9 DPS

Creeping Terror: 1223.85 * 101.35% = 1240.4 DPS

Affliction: 1060.05 * 101.35% = 1074.4 DPS

Force Leech: 1146.44 * 104.00% = 1192.3 DPS

All other abilities: 4570.5 DPS (unaltered)

TOTAL: 9499.5 DPS

 

 

The total DPS Buff is therefore 9499.5 DPS / 9386.3 DPS = 1.012 - meaning 1.2%.

 

Now, my opinion (again):

I love the Madness - Spec and I would like to see it become viable for PvE progression again. I personally don't think the presented changes will be sufficient to accomplish that - and I am not alone. I think it is undeniable that Madness is not just underperforming compared to other classes, but is underperforming in it's "Damage category" as a ranged DoT spec as well.

Therefore I would like to urge you, BioWare employee (who probably isn't reading this), to maybe provide some sort of commentary about this to the people who are in charge of balancing. I don't know what your real "Target DPS" is, but a buff of 1.2% for one of the arguably most underperforming specs at the moment isn't sufficent.

Edited July 2, 2017 by PhantomWarlock

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Alright, let's break these changes down using current data.

*snip*

 

The total DPS Buff is therefore 9499.5 DPS / 9386.3 DPS = 1.012 - meaning 1.2%.

 

Now, my opinion (again):

I love the Madness - Spec and I would like to see it become viable for PvE progression again. I personally don't think the presented changes will be sufficient to accomplish that - and I am not alone. I think it is undeniable that Madness is not just underperforming compared to other classes, but is underperforming in it's "Damage category" as a ranged DoT spec as well.

Therefore I would like to urge you, BioWare employee (who probably isn't reading this), to maybe provide some sort of commentary about this to the people who are in charge of balancing. I don't know what your real "Target DPS" is, but a buff of 1.2% for one of the arguably most underperforming specs at the moment isn't sufficent.

 

and don't forget that is dummy only. since the death mark stacks get used by other sorcs and hatred sins' dots as well. so in ops we certainly won't see even that +1% lol (never mind that indeed only the top of the top of the leaderboard will actually benefit from such a small buff lol. most others won't even feel it

:eek:

Edited July 3, 2017 by Hichitsuki-hime

[ottffsse]

No one bothered to optimize a real good madness rotation because it was not worth it in the current dps 5.0 meta/ and resource management on madness limits what you can do as you literally run out of force in like 2 minutes if you use all your attacks (and not overspam force-lightning).

 

I took a look at some top parses and the rotations are all over the place and do not use the buffed abilities optimally reflecting the fact above. On those top parses Deathmarks % is sometimes all over the place at 50/55%% uptime, sometimes 60-to low 70s% (in the best cases), the 2 dot uptime is from 90%-97%. Demolish uptime at about 50% to high 50s in the best cases.

I never bothered to try to nail down what is the optimal rotation personally since as I said it was not really worth it. But even on a "dumbed down" repetitive rotation I use for ease of use I maintained uptime of 98-99% on the 2 dots and 75% on deathmarks/force suppression, and 58% on demolish. I was not in full 248 but could get 9,2K with it.

 

That being said this buff as many have pointed out is meaningless as long as the net force-negative drain on the madness rotation remains. We will have extremely difficultly of getting 9,5/9,6K out of it much less the probable 9,7-9,9K which the new IO/AS Mando would be able to achieve if initial calculations hold true. And they are supposed to be in the same damage grouping.

[trabble]

is there any dev or anyone from the combat team who can explain us why you think these little nothing is enough to balance a class that is so much behind all others ? if you want more communication with your players and don't want to kick off the next wave of unsubbers than hey - here is your chance. why do you believe these 2 little buffs are enough ? or is anything missing ? did musco copy and paste everything from the combat team about madness ? maybe he missed the info that <insert ability here> is buffed by another 10% too ?

 

anyway - if you ( biow ) mean this: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=924810

then why do you think 5% on two abilities is enough ? as you can see here in the forums - your playerbase does have a complete other opinion about that.

 

and opnion is not enough - numbers count:

 

Alright, let's break these changes down using current data.

 

BASICS

 

Death Mark's Damage Bonus counts for 5 ticks of the 3 DoTs (Crushed(Demolish), Creeping Terror and Affliction).

Creeping Terror and Affliction both tick 15 times, while Crushed(Demolish) ticks 9 times.

Death Mark therefore benefits 5 out of 18 ticks for Creeping Terror and Affliction and 5 out of 9 for Crushed(Demolish).

 

 

DEATH MARK BONUS DAMAGE BREAKDOWN

 

The Damage Bonus from Death Mark broken down by DoT so far is therefore:

Crushed(Demolish): 1.10 * 5/9 + 4/9

Creeping Terror: 1.10 * 5/18 + 13/18

Affliction: 1.10 * 5/18 + 13/18

 

The Damage Bonus from Death Mark in 5.3 will be:

Crushed(Demolish): 1.15 * 5/9 + 4/9

Creeping Terror: 1.15 * 5/18 + 13/18

Affliction: 1.15 * 5/18 + 13/18

 

DPS INCREASE IN 5.3

 

Therefore we see the following increases in DPS:

Crushed(Demolish): (1.15 * 5/9 + 4/9) / (1.10 * 5/9 + 4/9) = 102.63%

Creeping Terror: (1.15 * 5/18 + 13/18) / (1.10 * 5/18 + 13/18) = 101.35%

Affliction: (1.15 * 5/18 + 13/18) / (1.10 * 5/18 + 13/18) = 101.35%

Force Leech: 1.30 / 1.25 = 104.00%

 

 

Now, let's apply these numbers to the current top-parsing Sorcerer/ Sage.

The top-parsing Sorc/ Sage on a 2500000 HP dummy does 9386.3 DPS.

 

 

DPS BREAKDOWN BY ABILITY

 

If we brake down the DPS by ability, we get:

Crushed(Demolish): 1385.46 DPS

Creeping Terror: 1223.85 DPS

Affliction: 1060.05 DPS

Force Leech: 1146.44 DPS

All other abilities: 4570.5 DPS

TOTAL: 9386.3 DPS

 

With the changes in 5.3 the DPS - breakdown would look like this:

Crushed(Demolish): 1385.46 * 102.63% = 1421.9 DPS

Creeping Terror: 1223.85 * 101.35% = 1240.4 DPS

Affliction: 1060.05 * 101.35% = 1074.4 DPS

Force Leech: 1146.44 * 104.00% = 1192.3 DPS

All other abilities: 4570.5 DPS (unaltered)

TOTAL: 9499.5 DPS

 

 

The total DPS Buff is therefore 9499.5 DPS / 9386.3 DPS = 1.012 - meaning 1.2%.

 

Now, my opinion (again):

I love the Madness - Spec and I would like to see it become viable for PvE progression again. I personally don't think the presented changes will be sufficient to accomplish that - and I am not alone. I think it is undeniable that Madness is not just underperforming compared to other classes, but is underperforming in it's "Damage category" as a ranged DoT spec as well.

Therefore I would like to urge you, BioWare employee (who probably isn't reading this), to maybe provide some sort of commentary about this to the people who are in charge of balancing. I don't know what your real "Target DPS" is, but a buff of 1.2% for one of the arguably most underperforming specs at the moment isn't sufficent.

 

so please - please - anyone from bioware - explain us why this what you call buff and we call nerf is enough.

[PROGOD]

is there any dev or anyone from the combat team who can explain us why you think these little nothing is enough to balance a class that is so much behind all others ? if you want more communication with your players and don't want to kick off the next wave of unsubbers than hey - here is your chance. why do you believe these 2 little buffs are enough ? or is anything missing ? did musco copy and paste everything from the combat team about madness ? maybe he missed the info that <insert ability here> is buffed by another 10% too ?

 

anyway - if you ( biow ) mean this: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=924810

then why do you think 5% on two abilities is enough ? as you can see here in the forums - your playerbase does have a complete other opinion about that.

 

and opnion is not enough - numbers count:

 

 

 

so please - please - anyone from bioware - explain us why this what you call buff and we call nerf is enough.

 

at this point it wouldn't surprise me if they just want to write this off as a failed experiment. I mean with the changes out now and countless posts you'd think one dev would say hey sorcs need a better overall buff from the actual feedback provided now. Rather then the what we deem typical bioware stuck up response but they really don't care so long as shareholders are happy with cc purchases.

[verfallen]

I'm reserving final judgment to when 5.3 goes live, but it does seem like every top dps is being brough down harshly. Marauders, sins and operatives are apparently going to survive the purge but its clear some hard nerf are going to be lined up for Deception and Carnage in the next few patches, and probably Lethality Operative will be rolled under the bus a bit.

 

If you check roughly madness vs upcoming IO/VIru/Engi, its going to be roughly competitive.

 

It seems to be this change aim to correct what I think was a somewhat unplanned 248 gear realease, which probably made some ops dps check easier than they should be.

 

Tbh I do think they should roll all the class changes at once, since they'll leave some specs which were previously very powerful, but less than the outlier as the new outliers. The sustained melee and burst spec will most likely shine pretty nicely for a bit tough.

 

But at the very least, even with that dps, very few ops lead want to bring more than 2 mpds because of the potentially fatal overlapping of mechanics in the boss vicinity for the tanks.

 

So all RDPS will be more or less in line come 5.3, with the burst parsing in the 9.3kish range and the sustained in the 9.7kish range. Its to be expected at any rate that madness with its user-friendly rotationnal dotspread and overall easy ressource management (not saying its not negative overall, but the impact of a target switch on them is less important than to a spec like Viru or IO, which can be forced to significantly lower dps to avoid going into a lesser regen range).

 

The worse change so far imo is definitely the nerfing of the sorc base heal, which put both dps spec as being "nerfed" in pvp while they were far from a shining spot, without giving a counterpart to keep the average hps of a sorc dps in those. Madness for which using those heal was already significant for their ressource suddenly have less bang for their buck to managing an LoS position and using dark heal, and Lightning which counts mostly on those to keep themselves in the game (as the spec has built in DR, not heals) will need more LoS time, which while it might be doable in 8vs8, no competent player will leave you out of their sight for too long in ranked.

[BraverDre]

Coming from someone who has cleared a good amount of NiM content, this statement is one of the more stupid I have seen of late.

 

Because you have cleared NiM content, doesn't mean you were good at it, weren't carried, or didn't only clear it once.

Furtermore, you can say having cleared EV KP NiM means you have cleared NiM content, but that would be nothing more than a technicality.

 

Does NiM take skill and experience to do well at? Absolutely. Does it mean that automatically make you more skilled than every other player that hasn't cleared or cleared as much NiM Content as you, it absolutely does not.

 

Furthermore, having cleared NiM content, in no way shape of form makes you more qualified in discussing aspects of the game that are not inherently intertwined with NiM content.

 

I've cleared NiM content, I couldn't possibly be less informed about crafting, PT Tanking, any heal spec in the entire game, the IO Rotation, kiting, GSF, Conquest, pubside [except that they can't PVP, that I know =p], how to make dyes, how the lightning spec glitch [expliot] works, the proper context of using the word "meme", or why people think saying things like "git gud", calling others "non-entities", or saying they are "triggered" in any way shape means they themselves are good and that they are anything other than AssO's by even merely using the termonology. If you ever say "git gud" to anyone else other than to say they are idiots for using the term, they're idiots. Ergo, Virginity is hard.

 

You are not better than anyone else, you are not famous, your words do not carry any more weight than anyone elses', in fact in making this statement your opinions on any subject in the future I will give less credence to.

 

This statement does make one thing quite clear and as far as I'm concerned, not open to much interpretation, and that is, if you are a male, it's very very small.

 

If you thought this statement raised your stature here on the forums, you thought wrong.

 

You don't get to decide how valid the statements of others are, everyone else does for themselves.

 

I was talking about Nim content like TFB EC DP DF in 5.0. Bla bla bla too much talking. The point is if u play a sorc a raidleader will not allow u to do all NiM content.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I was talking about Nim content like TFB EC DP DF in 5.0. Bla bla bla too much talking. The point is if u play a sorc a raidleader will not allow u to do all NiM content.

 

No, your point was....

 

3 i am tired of these community where people that dont play NIM give some sort of recommendations.

 

Which was what I responded to.

[ufasach]

Hey folks,

 

Below you will find the upcoming changes for Madness and Balance coming in Game Update 5.3:

 

 

 

-eric

 

This post reminds me of when Itchy & scratchy was replaced by an Eastern European cartoon.

[realleaftea]

Alright, let's break these changes down using current data.

 

BASICS

 

Death Mark's Damage Bonus counts for 5 ticks of the 3 DoTs (Crushed(Demolish), Creeping Terror and Affliction).

Creeping Terror and Affliction both tick 15 times, while Crushed(Demolish) ticks 9 times.

 

Death Mark therefore benefits 5 out of 18 ticks for Creeping Terror and Affliction and 5 out of 9 for Crushed(Demolish)

Not true!

 

Both Creeping Terror as well as Affliction are 'normal' DoTs that tick only once every 3s (2 GCD). And unless the initial damage is treated differently (see IO), they also tick once the moment you cast them.

 

Both 18s DoTs (Creeping Terror & Affliction) therefore tick 7 times in total. If you don't trust me, use this parse as an example (and check rotation for the number of uses):

 

Affliction: 107 ticks total | 16 uses = 6.6875 ticks per use (the last one was cut off)

Creeping Terror: 108 ticks total | 16 uses = 6.75 ticks per use (the last one was cut off)

Crushed (Demolish): 176 ticks total | 20 uses = 8.8 ticks per use (the last one was cut off)

 

And if you now consider a 15s cooldown for Death Field, you can substract 1 tick (i.e. 3s) from both Affliction and Creeping Terror. I.e. we have 9 + 6 + 6 = 21 DoTs, but only 15 Deathmark stacks

(which is the reason why I recommended to increase the number of stacks to 20)

 

Due to wicked cooldown of these skills, it's hard to foretell what DoT ticks are consumed by Deathmark. But let's assume the worst: 3x Creeping Terror, 3x Affliction and 9x Demolish (Crushed).

 

In general, the increase from 10% to 15% results in a 4.545% increase (1.15/1.1).

 

Affliction: 3/6 stacks => 50% of 4.545% = 2.27%

Creeping Terror: 3/6 stacks => 50% of 4.545% = 2.27%

Demolish (crushed): 9/9 stacks => 100% of 4.545% = 4.545%

 

Affliction: 283,112 * 2.27% = 6,434.36

Creeping Terror: 326,858 * 2,27% = 7,428.59

Demolish (crushed): 370,018 * 4.545% = 16,817.3

Force Leech: 306,183 * 4% = 12,247.32

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total: 42,927.57 / 267.073 = +160.7 DPS

 

DPS so far: 9,386.3 DPS

DPS to be: 9,547 DPS

Percentual bonus: 1.017 => 1.7%

 

So even with the adjusted numbers, it isn't much better.

Madness is still ~500pts away from the stated DPS goal.

Edited July 10, 2017 by realleaftea

[verfallen]

I was talking about Nim content like TFB EC DP DF in 5.0. Bla bla bla too much talking. The point is if u play a sorc a raidleader will not allow u to do all NiM content.

 

From the quality of your post around the forum in the last few months which is pretty much "please make my sorc fotm again, buff by 100% all attacks, give me god bubble dps" pretty much, I highly doubt you've ever cleared anything truly challenging in NiM unless heavily carried. Its very clear you have little understanding of how balance works between classes, and astoundingly enough, very little idea about the full potential of the class you call your main, or how to play or spec it.

 

So yes I'm 100% behind grim on that one, and might surprises you to know I switched to my sorc for HM/NiM raiding a bit lately, and while I'm certainly not the top parsely spot I do pretty good and keep up with FoTM mercs and marauder decently, and gave a run for its money to a pretty good assassin dps.

 

I've been on fights like M&B HM and Revan HM with it, where I was not looking bad at all on starparse.

 

But mostly, I'm having a blast. I'm having a lot of fun, and I feel useful to my team with the class. I'm an easy to heal, mobile, ranged bursty dps (yes lightning can be bursty done right) and come 5.3, its going to show even more how small the disparity can be. I suspect in many fights I'll parse over a few of the sustained spec. (RIP viru and IO especially I think)

 

If half your effort that went into whining on the forum in the last few months went into putting effort in that class you claim to love, you'd probably be enjoying the game a lot more than you seem to be now.

 

 

You want to be taken seriously with your opinion? Try to bring a bit more meat, arguments exemple, and clear demonstration you actually understand the class and its mechanic and how they are affected by various changes. And to talk balance, you need to be aware of the exact capabilities of more than 1 spec or 1 other class you struggle with.

 

Mercs are hard to beat? Roll one and learn it first hand how their dcd work and their weakness. Can't kite an operative? Roll one and learn what other ppl do that annoys you.

 

 

till you do so, I'd avoid brushing off anyone's opinion off the forum, because chance are that frankly its going to be more relevant than what you've been posting so far.

[BraverDre]

From the quality of your post around the forum in the last few months which is pretty much "please make my sorc fotm again, buff by 100% all attacks, give me god bubble dps" pretty much, I highly doubt you've ever cleared anything truly challenging in NiM unless heavily carried. Its very clear you have little understanding of how balance works between classes, and astoundingly enough, very little idea about the full potential of the class you call your main, or how to play or spec it.

 

So yes I'm 100% behind grim on that one, and might surprises you to know I switched to my sorc for HM/NiM raiding a bit lately, and while I'm certainly not the top parsely spot I do pretty good and keep up with FoTM mercs and marauder decently, and gave a run for its money to a pretty good assassin dps.

 

I've been on fights like M&B HM and Revan HM with it, where I was not looking bad at all on starparse.

 

But mostly, I'm having a blast. I'm having a lot of fun, and I feel useful to my team with the class. I'm an easy to heal, mobile, ranged bursty dps (yes lightning can be bursty done right) and come 5.3, its going to show even more how small the disparity can be. I suspect in many fights I'll parse over a few of the sustained spec. (RIP viru and IO especially I think)

 

If half your effort that went into whining on the forum in the last few months went into putting effort in that class you claim to love, you'd probably be enjoying the game a lot more than you seem to be now.

 

 

You want to be taken seriously with your opinion? Try to bring a bit more meat, arguments exemple, and clear demonstration you actually understand the class and its mechanic and how they are affected by various changes. And to talk balance, you need to be aware of the exact capabilities of more than 1 spec or 1 other class you struggle with.

 

Mercs are hard to beat? Roll one and learn it first hand how their dcd work and their weakness. Can't kite an operative? Roll one and learn what other ppl do that annoys you.

 

 

till you do so, I'd avoid brushing off anyone's opinion off the forum, because chance are that frankly its going to be more relevant than what you've been posting so far.

 

Man I have a b**heart because of posts like. "Lightning is ok it does 6mils on scoreboard." "Sorc dps is fine just enjoy its has good selfheals" It underpeforming in master mode content and every raidleader knows it so they prefer to run it with 2 mercs that are better at dps and mobility, they d rather take any class but sorc dps. So lets stop this bla bla bla talk about the class not me. P.S. I dont see ur name on sorcs dps list on parseley so what GOO-D numbers were u talking about? Looks like all u say is bla bla bla "good nubmers". If u overdps snipers on 3rd floor HM Revan with lightning and no bug then I must say ur friends dont know how to dps.

Edited July 5, 2017 by BraverDre

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Man I have a b**heart because of posts like. "Lightning is ok it does 6mils on scoreboard." "Sorc dps is fine just enjoy its has good selfheals" It underpeforming in master mode content and every raidleader knows it so they prefer to run it with 2 mercs that are better at dps and mobility, they d rather take any class but sorc dps. So lets stop this bla bla bla talk about the class not me. P.S. I dont see ur name on sorcs dps list on parseley so what GOO-D numbers were u talking about? Looks like all u say is bla bla bla "good nubmers". If u overdps snipers on 3rd floor HM Revan with lightning and no bug then I must say ur friends dont know how to dps.

 

You know there's no law that states you must upload all your parses to parsley, right?

 

Someone get's a 50% crit rate and 2% miss chance on a parse, that's an exception and indicative of extreme RNG luck [Thats not to say there is no skill involved, of course there is, but all the skill in the world can't overcome lousy RNG luck and good luck on RNG doesn't come from asking for it] and at times a lot of fluffing of numbers.

 

Because you use chain lighting on a whole bunch of adds just before the end of the fight doesn't mean that's how you perform regularly. People aren't idiots, they can see the all the logs and tabs on any parse on parsley.

 

The best parses always have an unusual amount of lucky RNG, so stop using Parsley like it's an accurate gauge of player's skill and general performance in and of itself.

 

I use it too. While you can use Parsley to study someone's rotation or form or to get some ideas, that's not it's central purpose. It's central purpose is for bragging rights.

[BraverDre]

You know there's no law that states you must upload all your parses to parsley, right?

 

Someone get's a 50% crit rate and 2% miss chance on a parse, that's an exception and indicative of extreme RNG luck [Thats not to say there is no skill involved, of course there is, but all the skill in the world can't overcome lousy RNG luck and good luck on RNG doesn't come from asking for it] and at times a lot of fluffing of numbers.

 

Because you use chain lighting on a whole bunch of adds just before the end of the fight doesn't mean that's how you perform regularly. People aren't idiots, they can see the all the logs and tabs on any parse on parsley.

 

The best parses always have an unusual amount of lucky RNG, so stop using Parsley like it's an accurate gauge of player's skill and general performance in and of itself.

 

I use it too. While you can use Parsley to study someone's rotation or form or to get some ideas, that's not it's central purpose. It's central purpose is for bragging rights.

 

Bla blabla bla-bla I know. If u are a good madness sorc dps, u can do 8.8k+ everytime on dummy. (9.5k+ in lightning without the bug). Seems like these people who are saying *sorc dps is fine* did NiM in 3.0 and now cant clear hm content. I am tired of these nonesense. Have a good day

Edited July 5, 2017 by BraverDre

[Elusive_Thing]

I was talking about Nim content like TFB EC DP DF in 5.0. Bla bla bla too much talking. The point is if u play a sorc a raidleader will not allow u to do all NiM content.

We have a Sorc DPS who has never been disallowed from any content and we are doing just fine.

[verfallen]

Bla blabla bla-bla I know. If u are a good madness sorc dps, u can do 8.8k+ everytime on dummy. (9.5k+ in lightning without the bug). Seems like these people who are saying *sorc dps is fine* did NiM in 3.0 and now cant clear hm content. I am tired of these nonesense. Have a good day

 

I literally carried 2 bad dps through HM styrak fight, which has one of the highest dps check in the game.

 

Try again. I was 2nd highest dps, beaten in the last mile by my assassin friend due to his damage bonus on target under 30%.

 

So yah. While your angry rhetoric and dismissal of points you dont like may fly with some people, they don't with me.

 

I said from the get go it was all based on live 5.0 experience, and you've failed to adress that.

 

I'm not arrogant and egomaniac to the point that I'd believe I'm just so much great I make a class work just because of that, so I'm pretty sure the class is not as crap as you claim. I do know hwoever, that there are a lot of very bad dps sorc in WZ in my server at the very least.

 

I'm a competitive player I enjoy playing many classes and getting to discover their strenght and weaknesses from first hand experience, and it does give me a decent overview of various classes, their up and downs, which are OP and why.

[BraverDre]

I literally carried 2 bad dps through HM styrak fight, which has one of the highest dps check in the game.

 

Try again. I was 2nd highest dps, beaten in the last mile by my assassin friend due to his damage bonus on target under 30%.

 

So yah. While your angry rhetoric and dismissal of points you dont like may fly with some people, they don't with me.

 

I said from the get go it was all based on live 5.0 experience, and you've failed to adress that.

 

I'm not arrogant and egomaniac to the point that I'd believe I'm just so much great I make a class work just because of that, so I'm pretty sure the class is not as crap as you claim. I do know hwoever, that there are a lot of very bad dps sorc in WZ in my server at the very least.

 

I'm a competitive player I enjoy playing many classes and getting to discover their strenght and weaknesses from first hand experience, and it does give me a decent overview of various classes, their up and downs, which are OP and why.

 

What's ur opinion on TB CL TB bug? Do u think we should defend developers' poor job? Have u done HM revan with 2 sorc dpsers in 5.0?

[BraverDre]

We have a Sorc DPS who has never been disallowed from any content and we are doing just fine.

 

Are u talking about EV KP SnV HM? I would like to know if u even tried to do HM Revan or HM Master blaster with sorc dps.

[BraverDre]

Hey folks,

 

Below you will find the upcoming changes for Madness and Balance coming in Game Update 5.3:

 

 

 

-eric

 

Stop trolling us. A lot of good players left the game already

[verfallen]

Are u talking about EV KP SnV HM? I would like to know if u even tried to do HM Revan or HM Master blaster with sorc dps.

 

didnt clear either but not due to lack of dps. My dps was within the norm of passing the checks without being carried, and with some carry capabilities even. in 242.

 

Try again.

 

ANd I don't use the CL bug. from the few things I actually upload you'll see easily that.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

didnt clear either but not due to lack of dps. My dps was within the norm of passing the checks without being carried, and with some carry capabilities even. in 242.

 

Try again.

 

ANd I don't use the CL bug. from the few things I actually upload you'll see easily that.

 

CAN IT PLEASE.:D:D it's when conversation gets off topic like this that they're even more likely to not even bother with the thread lol. i've cleared hm s&v, hm tfb, hm ec and hm df hm dp and hm tyth in 5.0 as a madness sorcerer. true, we didn't enrage and i wasn't even the last dps. that however doesn't mean that the 3 problems we keep bringing up are not valid.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Hichitsuki-hime