Ability animations

[warrico]

Hi all, returning player here on and off for years. Since its a star wars game, I seem to keep returning back. This game has alot of faults, but also amazing stuff like the worlds itself, the detail, the original 8 stories (amazing!) Now hopefully With new management the game itself will fix some of the faults like imbalance and lack of end game pve. However there is one thing about this game that to me is really just weird and that is the ability animations.

 

I made this thread to see if other people agree with me or not. I find the class animations to be truely awful.. it totally destroys the immersion for me which is sad cause as I said the planets and stories are really immersive. Ill pick some as an example. Jedi/sith lightsaber animations. The new blade Dance was an okey change (alltho the old one was pretty good) sadly tho, the rest of the attacks are clunky and slow paced, which is weird cause this is star wars... it shouldnt be hard to make over the top swinging/twirling animations like SWG had back in 2003 or like the prequel Movies had or like most star wars games have had. Those animations and the way of fighting made jedis feel like truely masters of lightsabers and the combat seemed fast paced and dangerous. This pretty much goes for all lightsaber wielding classes in this game. Some animations do it right, but when u are done With that ability u turn back into a slow paced boring playstyle. At least I feel that upgrading the animations more than what has been done would do amazing things to the classes and if its an affordable change, it should be done.

 

What do u all think? And if there are any other class animations u would want to change, feel free to leave it in a comment.

 

Thank you for Reading!

 

Edit: after playing some more I noticed that the basic attack has some really cool finisher animations. Maybe those could be used instead of basic slash? Animations are already there.

Edited June 9, 2017 by warrico

[Halinalle]

Are you talking about these when you say SWG had better animations?

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by Halinalle

[warrico]

I am obviously not talking about NGE(evil itself) animations and early swgemu bugged animations. When referring to swg animations it wasnt meant as a "use these animations" it was more to show how a really old game had more interesting and imagination when it came to animations. An example of CU animations:

and or any other Combat Upgrade animations or pre-cu animations videos u can find.

 

The point is, I wouldnt mind more animations that actually do something With the lightsaber besides slow boring side ways slash.

 

To give further examples how it should feel:

skip to 1.45 when the action starts. Edited June 9, 2017 by warrico

[Halinalle]

To give further examples how it should feel:

skip to 1.45 when the action starts.

 

1) Lightsabers are CGI in movies

2) They most likely trained that part for hours to get every movement perfect

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choreography

 

Also that "Darth Maul spins double bladed lightsaber 10 timer per second" move is only for show. It would most likely do very little actual damage.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Halinalle

[warrico]

1) Lightsabers are CGI in movies

2) They most likely trained that part for hours to get every movement perfect

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choreography

 

Also that "Darth Maul spins double bladed lightsaber 10 timer per second" move is only for show. It would most likely do very little actual damage.

 

what? what does any of that have to do with updating/replacing animations in a fantasy video game?

[MingusPho]

I agree with your post. I am an advanced wushu student (black belt) and it wouldn't hurt if the dev team looked at some actual martial art techniques when making animations. The double bladed saber animations are particularly gross. They could at least add the Satele Shan techniques from some of the trailers they released. Honestly, that's what I was expecting when I built my consular.

 

Also the scoundrel animations are particularly bland and repetitive. They should add some animations that distinguish each ability from all others. Instead you get a slower more pronounced version of the same thing.

[AscendingSky]

I admit, when I first saw the title to this thread, I expected it to be yet another post by a new trolling account created by Tracer Missile Guy...

[iankalo]

the attacks are clunky and slow paced, which is weird cause this is star wars...

Have you tried Alacrity Augments?

[mitchsts]

this is something i also instantly noticed when i came from swg and started this game. the thing i hate the most is the regular attack animation is the same every time. i remember in swg it would alternate between like 5 different animations every time you used the attack. i know you don't use it often in this game but i just wanted to see more variety.

[ThrakhathSpawn]

The animations for light sabers have always been poor.

 

But they've really made the tech classes worse from 3.0 on.

[AscendingSky]

The animations for light sabers have always been poor.

 

But they've really made the tech classes worse from 3.0 on.

 

Yeah, you want to talk about boring, clunky looking animations? Look at Vanguards, particularly tanks. We had one cool looking animation in Ion Storm (that was far from the coolest animation around, but I liked it still), and what did they do in 5.0? They took it away and replaced it with the old, boring animation it previously replaced, just sped up. Ugh, I love my Vanguard tank but I hate how bleh her skills behave visually.

Edited June 10, 2017 by AscendingSky

[JattaGin]

I've been playing from the beginning and ever since and I never paid attention to any attack animations. I couldn't tell which one is which. Thus, I couldn't care less for how the animations look. When I fight, I look at bars, icons, opponents, environment. Animations do not provide any useful information for the fight. I honestly don't understand how they can be important to anyone. The Tracer Missile guy comes to mind.

[Zolxtren]

I've been playing from the beginning and ever since and I never paid attention to any attack animations. I couldn't tell which one is which. Thus, I couldn't care less for how the animations look. When I fight, I look at bars, icons, opponents, environment. Animations do not provide any useful information for the fight. I honestly don't understand how they can be important to anyone. The Tracer Missile guy comes to mind.

 

your seem the type who would infest their screen with addons to the point where the only thing you see are numbers and bars........ and dont care about the world or the FEEL of the game and combat just numbers and efficiency.

 

others like to feel their characters Coolness and THEME while fighting and wandering.... one of the reasons cosmetic stuff sell so well in games.

 

for me commbat animations go like this

 

Lighting Sorc > Guardian = Jugg > Marrauder = Sentinel > everythign else......

Edited June 10, 2017 by Zolxtren

[warrico]

I've been playing from the beginning and ever since and I never paid attention to any attack animations. I couldn't tell which one is which. Thus, I couldn't care less for how the animations look. When I fight, I look at bars, icons, opponents, environment. Animations do not provide any useful information for the fight. I honestly don't understand how they can be important to anyone. The Tracer Missile guy comes to mind.

 

lol, well I think most of us can fight and notice the animations at the same time + animations are a huge part of what makes this fantasy world "real". Can u imagine how bland and boring this game would be without any animations?

 

In response to the other comments, I agree. Its not just lightsaber animations that could use a change. Most classes have pretty boring animations. To name a few, PT is supposed to be a 10m tank/dps and im fine with that, however the fact that no attack uses the blaster in ur hand is just one of the weirdest decisions I have ever seen. Also, what is up with mercenary unload and gunslinger unload? crossing ur arms?! did a 13 year old come up with this and think it would be cool and practical to shoot like that?

 

Keep coming with examples of animations u would like to see change!

[ThrakhathSpawn]

I've been playing from the beginning and ever since and I never paid attention to any attack animations. I couldn't tell which one is which. Thus, I couldn't care less for how the animations look. When I fight, I look at bars, icons, opponents, environment. Animations do not provide any useful information for the fight. I honestly don't understand how they can be important to anyone. The Tracer Missile guy comes to mind.

 

People like you are probably the guys standing in fire...

[ThrakhathSpawn]

Keep coming with examples of animations u would like to see change!

 

Hopeless, whoever is doing these seems to be obsessed with flower power spells from some non SWTOR fantasy game.

 

Change likely just means the new thing will be worse.

[Ralei]

Teras kasi unarmed hit 3 spam in swg was fun. My gal was always so dizzy.

 

There are some animations I like on my jugg and some I don't. The new Ravage is ****. I would be happy if they improved them, but it's not a priority for me.

[Nightblazer]

It seems like a waste of time and resources. There are far more important things they could be devoting time and resources into such as content, bug fixes, class balance and other things that are in much need of change.

 

Also what looks good as far as animations is very subjective and can really be an endless waste of resources of devs trying to make as many players happy with how animations look.

 

We already have threads of those not liking the changes to warrior / knight animation for ravage / blade barrage. Even name changes tend to get players upset.

 

Then there is those that keep wanting the BH tracer missile animation changed back to how it was.

 

All I see happening is this scenario:

 

BW: ok how are these changes:

 

1 or more players: no I don't like that, do this instead

 

1 or more other players: no it looks good keep it

 

first set: no it still sucks, change it again.

 

BW: ok how about this?

 

1 or more players: no still sucks

 

different group, no go back to the previous one

 

different group: no I like it

 

different group: no go back to the original changes

 

Non-force users: don't forget to update all our animations too.

 

etc

etc

etc

 

All it will create is endless back and forth between BW and players of what they want and how they want it to look. Again just a big waste of time and resources taken away from other things that are far more important.

 

Plus those that play non-force classes will want changes too and BW will need to appease as many players as possible.

 

Again sounds good on paper but execution of all this would be just a big problem for BW, player back lash and other things.

 

Players in MMOs and in this especially get upset with even name changes so while it would be nice, I realistically don't see this ever happening.

[jedimasterjac]

Ability animations have to be generic enough to work. A flashy, twirly fight is, well, coreographed.

 

I actually like the "clunky" and "slow" feel to the animations. I don't know what makes it not Star Wars.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq51w34Hg9I

I wouldn't call this the epitome of twirly, swirling, fights. In fact, it's quite slow. Even clunky, mayhaps.

 

Even this, I would say, is the epitome of what a Sith Warrior is. The few uses of the lightsaber is not flashy, overly-coreographed, or fancy. It's simple, brutal, and destructive.

 

Man, I wish someone had told Luke he needed to dance around like a fool for a cool lightsaber fight!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfxaadmrvjk

And someone really needs to tell Darth Vader he's just not cool at all!

 

Slow and clunky fights just aren't Star Wars at all!

[warrico]

Ability animations have to be generic enough to work. A flashy, twirly fight is, well, coreographed.

 

I actually like the "clunky" and "slow" feel to the animations. I don't know what makes it not Star Wars.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq51w34Hg9I

I wouldn't call this the epitome of twirly, swirling, fights. In fact, it's quite slow. Even clunky, mayhaps.

 

Even this, I would say, is the epitome of what a Sith Warrior is. The few uses of the lightsaber is not flashy, overly-coreographed, or fancy. It's simple, brutal, and destructive.

 

Man, I wish someone had told Luke he needed to dance around like a fool for a cool lightsaber fight!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfxaadmrvjk

And someone really needs to tell Darth Vader he's just not cool at all!

 

Slow and clunky fights just aren't Star Wars at all!

 

Well... I guess im one of those guys that figures the choreography of the original Movies was crap, probably because there was none. To me the old movies seem to be that way because George Lucas just told the actors "ok, start hitting eachother". And he did change that in the prequels. But ofc, thats just my opinion and u obviously like it

 

And any change to animation may be frowned upon by some and for others it might be just what they want. I am also, personally not after any insanely fancy animations, but wouldnt mind if they changed some of the basic slash animations into something more, that would make the combat flow.

[SourOrange]

Ability animations have to be generic enough to work. A flashy, twirly fight is, well, coreographed.

 

I actually like the "clunky" and "slow" feel to the animations. I don't know what makes it not Star Wars.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq51w34Hg9I

I wouldn't call this the epitome of twirly, swirling, fights. In fact, it's quite slow. Even clunky, mayhaps.

 

Even this, I would say, is the epitome of what a Sith Warrior is. The few uses of the lightsaber is not flashy, overly-coreographed, or fancy. It's simple, brutal, and destructive.

 

Man, I wish someone had told Luke he needed to dance around like a fool for a cool lightsaber fight!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfxaadmrvjk

And someone really needs to tell Darth Vader he's just not cool at all!

 

Slow and clunky fights just aren't Star Wars at all!

 

I see your point but I

 

There are quite a few single movements in that fight that could easily be used as an ability animation in and of themselves, if not default attacks/dodges. Of course the entire fight wouldn't look like that, but to see your character use such movements in their attack or dodge would be a lot more interesting than what we have now.

 

As a medieval martial artist, it really irks me that so many people think the brutish hacking we see in a lot of movies is representative of what it actually looks like when a professional wields a blade. Across the entire world there are hundreds of forms of blade-related martial arts that the developers could draw inspiration from when designing battle capabilities regarding lightsabers and vibroweapons. Fencing, for instance.

 

They don't have to be lightning fast and dance around, I just want to see that my character has the training we are told they do, and knows their weapon as well as they should in order to be at the level they are. I know what I'm looking at and looking for- fiction or fantasy, blade weapons take a lot of time to master, and skill to wield effectively. I want to see my character's skill when they are giving it all they've got.

 

And maybe it's a pipe dream but it would be really neat to see Bioware design some "forms" for both Jedi and Sith, which can be selected the same way classes can- each "form" giving your attack animations a unique appearance. That way people could go for something more slow, quick, elegant or brutish depending on what they felt was appropriate. Then everyone could have what they wanted.

Edited June 11, 2017 by SourOrange

[MingusPho]

 

And maybe it's a pipe dream but it would be really neat to see Bioware design some "forms" for both Jedi and Sith, which can be selected the same way classes can- each "form" giving your attack animations a unique appearance. That way people could go for something more slow, quick, elegant or brutish depending on what they felt was appropriate. Then everyone could have what they wanted.

 

 

This reminds me of a mod someone made for Jedi Knight Academy that allowed you to do just that---pick your form. It mostly showed in the way characters wielded their sabers but it was still pretty cool. Actually JKA had some really awesome lightsaber combat and I still pull it out from time to time when I need to feel like a real jedi. SWTOR just doesn't do that for me.

 

Not to get too far from the OP, but how can one type of jedi use force leap but another can't? Some force abilities should be universal regardless of whether you're playing a knight or a consular. The nit-picky distinctions should mostly be end game abilities and saber technique. Instead its like consulars and knights are two entirely separate sects of jedi from different parts of the galaxy.

[warrico]

BUMP in case more People have ideas/wanna share their opinion. ALSO I wanna show u all a SWTOR promo documentary from 2008 or something about their vision (relevant to this discussion):

Skip to 4.20 (or so for a comment on fast paced combat) In that I do realize they are speaking in general terms, but as the video of lightsaber fights u can also see it used to be alot faster (With twirls etc).

 

ALSO this video

skip to 2:40 and watch them talk about "not wanting to swing a lightsaber again and again in the same pattern" which is how it sadly feels due to not that interesting animations in my opinion.

 

Just thought that could add something to the discussion + its fun to watch those videos of 2008 pre-release footage

[petergohan]

some abilities really doesn't matter to me when changed/added in 5.0, but it hurts my eyes what they did with blade dance/ravage, those were nice looking skills, even better if used on sentinels for blade dance, what we got..., my god..., TERRIBLE, the only class that i stopped playing and don't intend to come back because of this, one great ability ruined for good...

 

One untouched that was always bad is boltstorm for commando, this skill makes no sense, it goes from a ok barrage, to glitter fest, ***!?

Edited June 27, 2017 by petergohan

[Alssaran]

I actually like the "clunky" and "slow" feel to the animations. I don't know what makes it not Star Wars.

 

I knew that you would post OT videos without even clicking the links in order to make a point about how "combat that is clunky can be Star Wars!" And from a certain point of view, and someone who holds the OT in high regard, I can agree. Sometimes a clunky piece of lightsaber combat can feel adequate.

 

However, there is a very good lore reason why combat in the Old Republic era, the Clone Wars era and the Prequels is a bit more flashy, and the combat in the OT is so slow. And that actually makes a good point for having faster animations in this game (Old Republic era).

 

 

 

Who in the OT had the martial prowess or ability to fight or teach others to fight?

 

Let's take a look at who fights in the OT:

 

Luke Skywalker: A farmer boy from Tatooine, who has probably never held a lightsaber previous to ANH. His martial ability will be limited to using sticks to fight with his friends, and maybe holding a staff. By the end of RotJ, he had three years to learn his fighting skills from two very aged people, and the focus was probably much more on the basics of combat.

 

Ben Kenobi: Ben was old and grey at this point. His body was probably starting to give out and he became more of a "consular" type of person because, despite some of Form IV more prominent "anti-aging effects" due to Force control, he was probably much more concerned with gaining wisdom than martial prowess. This is somewhat changed in Rebels, seeing the strikes Maul down with a single attack, but that is still not "fancy". It was a stylistic device more than anything.

 

Yoda: Do I need to detail this? Yoda was in exile for almost twenty years too. He probably spent more time preparing for his eventual "demise" and figuring out the secrets of the Force than on martial training, seeing that a lightsaber (for him, personally) would have been useless at this point.

 

Vader: Vader had a heavily scarred and damaged body, and his motion was restricted by a very heavy shoulderplate on his body. Even if he still had the prowess from his previous years, the missing muscles and the additional weight made it hard to really move around.

 

Of course, you would be right to point out that these things were added in later to explain the discrepancy between the slow OT fighting and the heavily influenced martial arts fighting of the prequels. It has as many production reasons as it has actual lore reasons, and I agree, that is a major point. But the Old Republic era is much more "martial". Lot's of these secrets haven't been lost yet. The Jedi and Sith in this game, and across the timeline per se, have been trained to use the Force in combat for decades, with Battlemasters and Sabermasters still training students in the seven lightsaber forms.

 

Which means I can get behind the OP saying that animations could be a little bit more flashy. Yes, the movie things are simply actors following a set of motions, and real sword-fighting usually never goes quite as the simple set of motions suggests it. It's much more raw and "in the moment", but we're talking about an universe that can basically justify causing great thunderstorms by using "The Force."

 

 

 

I left that in spoilers because it adds tons of lore discussion, but a summary: I agree with the OP when he says the lightsaber animations can feel a little bit underwhelming at times. The new Blade Barrage is alright, but I liked the old Master Strike better. Some of the old abilities (Plasma Blade, Force Leap, Guardian Slash, Double Strike, Slash, Riposte and Dispatch) should receive a small animations update, or in case of Dispatch, should always receive the new animation from the skill tree variation. I can understand the idea behind having it an exclusive animation to discern skill trees from opponents, but Plasma blade does that just as good.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Alssaran