Juggernaut DPS not getting class changes according to roadmap...

[AllisonLightning]

1) Reduce tank Jugg damage

2) Leave dps Juggs completely alone

3) Nerf snipers/mercs

 

The issue here is the ridiculousness of those two classes. Buffing juggs only continues the arms race. Need to bring those other classes back in line to restore balance.

 

I run my Immortal/Defence in actual tank gear- they shouldn't reduce a tank class's DPS based on people running around as tanks in DPS gear/ or min-max, since my DPS is already on par with where it should be (as in, I'm a tank- not so great at DPS)- I'm still learning my Assassin and Shadow tanks. The only true sniper issues at the moment is the one spec's plasma probe and it again, is a branch of a spec, in this case, DPS mercs that need a nerf- not healers... although the DPS Merc I ran into last night and carried certainly forgot how to mash his head on the keyboard for his instant win.

[lavatsunami]

I run my Immortal/Defence in actual tank gear- they shouldn't reduce a tank class's DPS based on people running around as tanks in DPS gear/ or min-max, since my DPS is already on par with where it should be (as in, I'm a tank- not so great at DPS)- I'm still learning my Assassin and Shadow tanks. The only true sniper issues at the moment is the one spec's plasma probe and it again, is a branch of a spec, in this case, DPS mercs that need a nerf- not healers... although the DPS Merc I ran into last night and carried certainly forgot how to mash his head on the keyboard for his instant win.

 

Yeh idc what they need to do to make sure Jugg tanks aren't doing the damage they're capable of, but it needs to be lower.

 

The issue with merc and snipers isn't that their damage suddenly got overpowered (their damage has always been good), it's that their defensives became insane. Some of the new talents and abilities added for both sniper and merc are what's making them op atm. I wouldn't want their damage touched, but their ability to survive is what needs to be toned down.

 

Mercs literally have triple the survivability of a PT. Why is that a thing, especially with PT's now needing to be in 10m range?

[-Bob-]

It's Confirmed!!!!!!

All other Classes in the Roadmap are getting a Buff against Juggs/Guardians.

A 200% reflect against any and all Jugg/Guardian DPS with a 3 sec CD.

A prevent leap ability that is activated with your class buffs and last for 59 minutes.

[Thaladan]

if some classes are nerfed correctly, jugg will be balanced without any change.

[stoopicus]

All Juggs need are a slight buff to the survivability of Veng. Damage output is solidly mid-pack, the problem is surviving long enough to apply damage in 4v4s.

 

If that slight buff comes due to nerfing ranged DPS, everything will probably be ok.

[stoopicus]

Yeh idc what they need to do to make sure Jugg tanks aren't doing the damage they're capable of, but it needs to be lower.

 

Jugg tank single target damage is fine. The high numbers you see (from Juggs that know how to play Immortal) are primarily due to Chilling Scream AE dot and to Crushing Blow spread.

 

But Immortal single target burst is about exactly right.

[Seterade]

If they put a 9 sec cd on Plasma probe (according to pve'rs this is the rotation number) removed or heavily nerfed Trauma regulaters, gave Heatseeker missiles a 15% dmg nerf, this game would not only be ok (cause UC is becoming legacy) but it would be fun.

 

btw, they can nerf dps tanks easily. basically you take heavy dmg if you don't have tank stats. ie defence rating/absorb. just nerf the passive defs an increase def stat effiecenty an skank tanks will disappear.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Seterade

[stoopicus]

btw, they can nerf dps tanks easily. basically you take heavy dmg if you don't have tank stats. ie defence rating/absorb. just nerf the passive defs an increase def stat effiecenty an skank tanks will disappear.

 

This is pretty much true - a nerf to the base DR on Immortal would remove the primary advantage over Veng for those not in tank gear. The question is, why? Anyone that seriously considers skank tanks a problem in the current meta is pretty funny.

Edited June 1, 2017 by stoopicus

[SilverStarSeaker]

A buff to ED would be nice

[xChAoTiXx]

Lets say they really line up other classes with jugg dps to balance everyrthing... if so, there is another problem: They also exclude Marauders from the class changes... which means Marauders are going to be extremely overpowered....

 

Or they balance evereything to be on par with Marauders, in that case Juggernaut will be way below every other class as well...

 

You get what Im aiming at? You cant balance classes if you take 2 classes that are in a way different spot balance wise out of consideration... somethjng will go wrong

[Glocko]

Jugg is already at the bottom of the dps charts so this is some really bad news. Why should Vengeance and rage get screwed over because of fake Immortal tanks putting up bogus numbers with meaningliess constant AOE.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

A few things to note. Der.. your assuming a lot.

 

Juggs are not bad but their easier to kill than a sniper. You never tunnel a sniper unless there's no sin, jugg, sorc, pt, or a known bad on team to focus first.

 

There will always be a class that performs the worst at any given time in ranked. The classes are not identical which means there will always be an easy class, a strong class, a support class, and a weak class. PTs are the worst right now, maybe jugs will take their place. But its not fair to att the devs cause your one advanced class isn't getting enough attention. This is an 8 class game, someone will perform less than the other 7.

 

Edit: also... 4.0 was the jugs expansion in the lime light. now its 5.0, mercs turn. 6.0 will bring a new meta.

 

 

Not only that, but you can't base class balance changes on ranked PVP only, that would be rediculously retarded. Jugg DPS in regs is very good, you give them an overall DPS buff and they become OP in regs.

 

Skank Tanks need a small nerf as well.

 

There is nothing wrong with Jugg DPS in regs, and a hell of a lot more people play regs than ranked. Ranked is a cheat fest and makes rating meaningless. I'm not saying don't address ranked issues, but they shouldn't be addressed in such a fashion as to set regs out of wack than. They need to be careful how to address class changes of any class that may benefit one area of PVP but with the same stroke hurt the other area of PVP. They just need to be careful how they improve Juggs, I'm not saying don't address it, we just don't want to create a new OP class in any area of PVP. Look what happened when they tried to improve Mercs and Snipers. A total unmitigated disaster.

 

The Jugg issue is a ranked only situation. In regs they are quite strong.

Edited June 1, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I run my Immortal/Defence in actual tank gear- they shouldn't reduce a tank class's DPS based on people running around as tanks in DPS gear/ or min-max, since my DPS is already on par with where it should be (as in, I'm a tank- not so great at DPS)- I'm still learning my Assassin and Shadow tanks. The only true sniper issues at the moment is the one spec's plasma probe and it again, is a branch of a spec, in this case, DPS mercs that need a nerf- not healers... although the DPS Merc I ran into last night and carried certainly forgot how to mash his head on the keyboard for his instant win.

 

While I agree that plasma probe is the main issue when it comes to Snipers, it is hardly the only issue. Snipers are supposedly a 'pure DPS class' [which they're not anymore in practice], and yet they have the defensives of a tank [the most DCDs of any class in the game, self-heals, and a CC kit that could choke a horse, and their control over melee is tremendous and totally unfair. Snipers make things miserable for melee and they are far too strong.

 

They are no different than mercs. Too much survivability for the kind of DPS potential they have, one man trinities [although thier heals aren't as strong as mercs, but a pure DPS class should not have any heals at all].

 

Vs. Melee, Snipers are worse than Mercs.

 

As another poster pointed out Marauders are the most balanced class in the game currently and I agree with that, they don't need to be touched in either direction. That said, however, there is something not quite right about there being only one class in the game without self heals. That isn't exactly fair for PVP. I am by no means advocating they get self heals. They shouldn't have self heals, they live to destroy. But, there is far too much DPS healing going on, and I do feel that needs to be lessened some. Anyone who says that a lack of self-heals, even with the DCDs they have is not problematic if their is no healer on their time is either clueless or a liar.

 

DPS classes should have a balanced ratio by which the more healing a dps spec is capable of the less DPS potential it should have. When you have some DPS specs with more healing potential than others [or none at all], class imbalances are guaranteed.

 

Skank tanks are a good example of what goes wrong when you 'meld' two 'roles' together without their being counter weights. Too much survivability for the kind of DPS potential they have. That's why they are OP. Tank spec, no matter what kind of gear they might be wearing, should not be capable of putting out a level of DPS that is anywhere near on par with a DPS spec under any circumstances. You want to do good DPS, play a DPS spec.

 

Same with mercs, and same with Snipers, the only difference is, ranged has advantage of melee by the very existence of their range perimeters. A skank tank needs to be alot close to a target than a Merc of a Sniper does. The greater the range, the greater the uptime. Uptime = DPS.

 

I agree about merc heals, leave em alone.

Edited June 1, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[DerSchneider]

 

As another poster pointed out Marauders are the most balanced class in the game currently and I agree with that, they don't need to be touched in either direction. That said, however, there is something not quite right about there being only one class in the game without self heals. That isn't exactly fair for PVP. I am by no means advocating they get self heals. They shouldn't have self heals, they live to destroy. But, there is far too much DPS healing going on, and I do feel that needs to be lessened some. Anyone who says that a lack of self-heals, even with the DCDs they have is not problematic if their is no healer on their time is either clueless or a liar.

 

Skank tanks are a good example of what goes wrong when you 'meld' two 'roles' together without their being counter weights. Too much survivability for the kind of DPS potential they have. That's why they are OP. Tank spec, no matter what kind of gear they might be wearing, should not be capable of putting out a level of DPS that is anywhere near on par with a DPS spec under any circumstances. You want to do good DPS, play a DPS spec.

 

If any of the self heals in this game will be nerfed maras will immediately become stronger. Yes they lack self heals but they have a shyte ton of mitigation DCDs and an escape mechanism. Trust me I'd rather have this on my jugg rather than ED which can be bursted through by 2 players and worthless reflect people just hitting into without taking damage.

 

About skank tanks - if you are getting outdpsed by a skank tank - you should simply l2p, I mean seriously. The only way you can be outdpsed - if enemy team is tunneling skank jugg and buffing his damage.

If any kind of damage nerf is coming to skank tanks I demand fixing mitigation stats, so they could work on yellow damage.

 

And ye, I want to play dps. But my dps specs are not viable. The argument that ranked is full of cheaters is funny, you probably watched too much of Snave's stream. Or just failed to get any rating, that's generally where ranked salt comes from. I honestly bored replying on the stupid posts about regs balancing. Regs are based on objectives, while ranked is based on combat. Regs are also casual, full of beginner players, and basically meaningless (you don't gain or lose anything in regs).

Edited June 1, 2017 by DerSchneider

[Gyronamics]

I'd rather have this on my jugg rather than ... worthless reflect people just hitting into without taking damage.

 

What's that meant to mean.

[stoopicus]

About skank tanks - if you are getting outdpsed by a skank tank - you should simply l2p, I mean seriously. The only way you can be outdpsed - if enemy team is tunneling skank jugg and buffing his damage.

If any kind of damage nerf is coming to skank tanks I demand fixing mitigation stats, so they could work on yellow damage.

 

Agreed. It's simply not a problem that needs fixing. Immortal's single target DPS is fine, and its spread DPS is less than Veng anyway. It you're rolling Veng and being out-DPSed by Immortal, it's most likely because the Immortal Jugg is dying less, so has more time on target, and is being smart about their AoE spread. It's not because they are hitting too hard.

[DerSchneider]

What's that meant to mean.

 

When people are tunneling juggs in ranked and you're popping reflect, they just keep hitting, because they simply don't take any damage from it. Also it doesn't heal like merc reflect. Also many attacks simply go through it, because why not?

[Gyronamics]

When people are tunneling juggs in ranked and you're popping reflect, they just keep hitting, because they simply don't take any damage from it.

 

But that's not true. It reflects 100% of everything it says it reflects.

 

If there's a lack of mercs or sniper dps and its all melee then yes it will go through.

[Kurj]

Agreed. It's simply not a problem that needs fixing. Immortal's single target DPS is fine, and its spread DPS is less than Veng anyway. It you're rolling Veng and being out-DPSed by Immortal, it's most likely because the Immortal Jugg is dying less, so has more time on target, and is being smart about their AoE spread. It's not because they are hitting too hard.

 

I play a skank guardian, so obviously am self-interested here. I started in PVP as a pure tank but switched to skank when I realized that you add very little to your team that way, because your increased mitigation is useless, and DPS helps your team. If they make mitigation stats more effective in PVP, I think that would make things worse - TTK is too high as it is, we don't need tanks that are tougher. I've come to think that a PVP tank is a skank tank, period. Am I wrong?

[stoopicus]

I play a skank guardian, so obviously am self-interested here. I started in PVP as a pure tank but switched to skank when I realized that you add very little to your team that way, because your increased mitigation is useless, and DPS helps your team. If they make mitigation stats more effective in PVP, I think that would make things worse - TTK is too high as it is, we don't need tanks that are tougher. I've come to think that a PVP tank is a skank tank, period. Am I wrong?

 

Nope, that's more or less how I see it.

[DerSchneider]

But that's not true. It reflects 100% of everything it says it reflects.

 

If there's a lack of mercs or sniper dps and its all melee then yes it will go through.

 

*cough* volatile substance *cough* explosive probe *cough*

 

Also don't tell me they shouldn't be reflected - it's single target tech damage.

 

Also the bug in this patch about some of white dmg not being reflected, however I didn't really notice.

Edited June 1, 2017 by DerSchneider

[agelosek]

The problem here is that we can do nothing about it. Devs don't read pvp forums, they probably don't have a dev class testers/players. Because if they do, they would already did something about it. But... no.

From vanilla swtor i play only jugg Vigilance and i have to say juggs dmgers are going down in gameplay compared to other classes. Now ranked is nightmare when everyone targeting you just because you have purple symbol above you and you can do literally nothing to survive without healer. I'm really sick of it!

[Seterade]

The problem here is that we can do nothing about it. Devs don't read pvp forums , they probably don't have a dev class testers/players. Because if they do, they would already did something about it. But... no.

From vanilla swtor i play only jugg Vigilance and i have to say juggs dmgers are going down in gameplay compared to other classes. Now ranked is nightmare when everyone targeting you just because you have purple symbol above you and you can do literally nothing to survive without healer. I'm really sick of it!

 

False. This statement is coming from a player who seeming does not have a grasp of forum concepts.

 

Proof of dev interaction on PVP forum. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=922570 this thread was originaly posted on the PVP section, was then moved to "off-topic" because it didn't fit the criteria here. In order for this topic to be moved a mod would have to have read it. Even if Devs don't personally read every post on the forum, mods an admins job is to pass along info that would be useful to them.

 

Yet another player gets uppity about the devs not cantering to his ideas. Btw... this post of yours is an excellent example of why no dev will post in the Pvp forum, if they did every whiner would come out of the wood work an demand their main advanced class be as strong mercs or "I'm unsubbing!" I don't blame the devs for not posting here. I wouldn't if I was one.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Seterade

[Gyronamics]

*cough* volatile substance *cough* explosive probe *cough*

 

Also don't tell me they shouldn't be reflected - it's single target tech damage.

 

Also the bug in this patch about some of white dmg not being reflected, however I didn't really notice.

 

They behave differently to a typical shoot and hit attack, both are a debuff on you that gets consumed to cause damage by something else. Whatever, I can't argue either way for them.

 

The white damage "bug" is a bug in the game reporting white damage reflects.

 

This also happens to mercenaries when you hit them with white damage. You still get it reflected and you still take the (50%) reflect damage. But you won't see the flytext for it.

 

It will also not be written in the combat log so all DPS caused by reflecting white damage is invisible right now even though you can set up with a buddy and watch them lose HP as it bounces back to them.

 

So no, reflect works just fine vs white damage but you'll have to go through a combat log manually to work out how much it did by examining how much was absorbed as no lines are being written for the reflecting part.

 

Which is funny as tech/force reflects are shown in flytext and written to the log exactly as they should.

[agelosek]

Btw... this post of yours is an excellent example of why no dev will post in the Pvp forum, if they did every whiner would come out of the wood work an demand their main advanced class be as strong mercs or "I'm unsubbing!" I don't blame the devs for not posting here. I wouldn't if I was one.

 

Yea sure, where i wrote i want jugg to be strong as merc or if not i'll unsubscribe? I'm just saying that devs don't care about pvp in this game and that is a fact. Lack of people in dev team or whatever... This game is simply focused on PVE - than PvP.