WHAT is stopping you form making your own premade ?

[Schoock]

...

 

Any single non-stealth defender is a bad nodeguard except PT tank (DPS specs are too easy to burst down) and Engi Sniper. Even among stealth, only Concealment Operatives are outstanding, a single Assassin or Medicine/Lethality Oper is still an easy cap with 2 once you can get them out stealth. Sure that takes some time, but after that they're not that hard to get.

 

Marauders are not in a bad spot when it comes to guarding as a non-stealth. They are not uncappable, but nothing is.

 

The reason why I started arguing on Mara guarding is because you told Lev (whom I played with and against and I consider him a good player) that he shouldn't guard on a Mara. I merely pointed out that Maras can make okay guards, with some of the longest total CC immunity in the whole game, and while they're not the absolute best the game has to offer for this job, they can do it decently, and with a properly responding team they make good nodeguards. (And, also, most of the stealthers are absolute trash and have no idea how to sapcap properly, making basically everything a good nodeguard. But that's another story.)

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Any single non-stealth defender is a bad nodeguard except PT tank (DPS specs are too easy to burst down) and Engi Sniper. Even among stealth, only Concealment Operatives are outstanding, a single Assassin or Medicine/Lethality Oper is still an easy cap with 2 once you can get them out stealth. Sure that takes some time, but after that they're not that hard to get.

 

Marauders are not in a bad spot when it comes to guarding as a non-stealth. They are not uncappable, but nothing is.

 

The reason why I started arguing on Mara guarding is because you told Lev (whom I played with and against and I consider him a good player) that he shouldn't guard on a Mara. I merely pointed out that Maras can make okay guards, with some of the longest total CC immunity in the whole game, and while they're not the absolute best the game has to offer for this job, they can do it decently, and with a properly responding team they make good nodeguards. (And, also, most of the stealthers are absolute trash and have no idea how to sapcap properly, making basically everything a good nodeguard. But that's another story.)

 

That's perfectly fair. I think, perhaps, my intent was misunderstood when I responded to your friend.

 

I noted early on his post that he mentioned about calling other people trash. This was before any had said anything to him about being in a premade. He later went on to describe a situation wherein he was guarding as a Marauder, which, I think it's fair to say is inadvisable from a strategic point of view.

 

I take poorly people who think it;s okay to call other players trash or shytters, even if they are, having not been insulted by them first. It often seems, and this is just from my perspective mind you, that you see a lot of people making claims about their prowess and feel that they are superior to others, Now even if that is the case, it's a video game. Calling other people trash and shytters, especially in PVP that has enough problems keeping a decent player base, hurts the game. And personally, toxic people, I don't like them.

 

That is why I made the comment to your friend that I did, I did go on later to say that I'm not suggesting that Marauders are incapable of guarding nodes, I'm, just of the opinion they are not well suited to it. I was not bad mouthing Marauders. I love Marauders. Currently, I only play one character and it is my longest standing character and it's a Carnage Marauder so I know the difficulties we face in PVP and this meta is not a very good one for melee and I'm sure you would agree.

 

My point is simply that they are not the class that you should be using to guard nodes if given the choice. A stealther or a Snipers is much better suited for it, and is more likely to be able to defend that node and buy time for reenforcements to get there.

 

He didn't specify a Fury Marauder mind you, and I would agree, that they are certainly better for it than a Carnage or Annihilation Marauder would be. Yet, even still, subjectively speaking, I do believe a Fury Marauder is not the ideal choice for node guarding if there are other options available. Different classes are better at different things. Assassins, Operatives, Snipers, they are better suited for that task in my opinion. I have no issue if someone disagrees with that, they are certainly entitled to their opinion.

 

Lastly, my comments were prefaced with the notation that the players involved were competent in their respective class. There is no question that someone playing a stealther vs a more season marauder who knew his class would certainly be able to be defeated by the marauder. Skill levels will always be the foremost variable in how a 1v1 will play out. I agree with you 100% on that.

Edited May 20, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[VixenRawR]

Are people really this bad at marauders? I don't really have much issue on mine when facing any class in a 1 v 1 for the most part, sure people can get the best of me but I am not a useless sitting duck. Marauders have amazing dcds just people think everyone should have 3 h2f is dumb. Literally any class can guard a node solo with any spec. Some not as better as others but this game isn't 1 v 1...there are 7 teammates. If you make an early call, don't stand on top of the node, and don't break your first sap...you will get help before anyone finds out if you can 1 v 1 whatever class that approaches you.

 

"But two operatives could open up on you." Then it is a 1 v 2 and you shouldn't win. Still call, try to kite and cc. You have mad dash and predation and camo to buy some time.

 

If your team doesn't come to help because I think if people listen they should be there with 15ish seconds unless you are holding grass and snow for example. If they aren't coming it means they are stupid, all dead...which means they are bad and you will be triple capped in about 15 seconds XD

 

I think in terms of dcd...other classes should be on equal grounds with marauders. No insane h2f abilities. Imo dps classes should have no healing effects save something like shoulder cannon, like a small effect but not a second life. This forces the use of a healer and a tank. When you have a healer and a tank and classes with h2f and other stupidly op dcd that are up way to often...it gets dumb.

 

I love maras because they pose a challenge to use, while still being able to stand its own if you use dcd's correctly.

[VixenRawR]

That's perfectly fair. I think, perhaps, my intent was misunderstood when I responded to your friend.

 

I noted early on his post that he mentioned about calling other people trash. This was before any had said anything to him about being in a premade. He later went on to describe a situation wherein he was guarding as a Marauder, which, I think it's fair to say is inadvisable from a strategic point of view.

 

I take poorly people who think it;s okay to call other players trash or shytters, even if they are, having not been insulted by them first. It often seems, and this is just from my perspective mind you, that you see a lot of people making claims about their prowess and feel that they are superior to others, Now even if that is the case, it's a video game. Calling other people trash and shytters, especially in PVP that has enough problems keeping a decent player base, hurts the game. And personally, toxic people, I don't like them.

 

 

My point is simply that they are not the class that you should be using to guard nodes if given the choice. A stealther or a Snipers is much better suited for it, and is more likely to be able to defend that node and buy time for reenforcements to get there.

.

 

Sure, I understand what you say. Calling people bad or trash because they don't match your skill, I am fine with that. It makes sense, who wants a toxic game right?

 

Not everyone can be as good as you or me and thats normal. Yet people should at least try, right? Afterall you joined a game that everyone wants to win (Or so I hope) and they have teammates which means you should also be helping them.

 

When I see people defending properly, making calls, attempting to get ahead for huttball passes and focusing targets that have been called out, heals or whatever it may be...I am fine. Even if they can do half my dps with the same class as me. They are working at their skill level or capabilities but at least are trying to win.

 

However when I see 6 people guarding 1 node and its all we have on Civil War ...that's when I start to consider they are trash. I've had matches early on the moment we lose mid...people just go guard our single node for the rest of the match. Absolute garbage.

 

When I see an assassin rolling around with a single lightsaber, and even when you them their mistake you still see them playing with it warzone after warzone. Trash.

 

When you pass the ball to someone ahead and they turn and literally pass it to an enemy with no other teammates within a 30m radius....Trash. They just want to dps farm with no effort towards a win...and they pass it to an enemy. At least toss it back to an ally if you dont think you can carry it.

 

When a 15 min match ends and the player has 50.02 dps and they weren't guarding a node, not even a healer or a tank with high protection. Trash. (When I see everyone on the team break over 1+ million dmg and there is a dps player with 120k...like what? They were in the match from the start too)

 

When you have a bad who is performing horribly, not listening to sound advice, and just sucks at everything they do...and then they trash talk to enemies when the game is won and their victory was ensured by the other teammates and not thru their own hands. Trash. I hate trash talkers, especially if they have no means to back it up. Sure inflated egos are annoying, but if you did 10 million dmg and everyone else didn't break 1 million...have an ego and trash talk...still annoying but at least you can justify it somewhat. XD

 

When your team loses a 4 v 1 at an off node....what???? Trash. Like I understand skill but there is a point where you are just not even trying.

 

I've played matches where a friend and I were a tank and healer and were at grass holding a 2 v 6 for over 2+ mins...and we still didn't have snow or mid capped. Like HOW? There are 6 of you and 2 of them. Even if they have a tank and healer doing what we are doing....they can't be guarding mid AND snow...accomplish SOMETHING! Really irritates me when we are obviously holding back 6 players...and a couple dps trickle over to lend a hand...sorry you wont KILL anything you will get farmed instantly and waste all our time and effort. I usually just leave the dps to die at that point and try to head towards another node while the 6 are distracted for 5 seconds. *sigh*

 

I understand mistakes, bad internet, even a reason to AFK in a warzone. Real life happens, mistakes, errors of judgement, and learning pvp and your class. However the fact that you are on a mmo means you must have at least some concept of operating a keyboard mouse...and probably common knowledge of video games, and objectives based off real life. At some point in school I am sure you were placed on teams towards a common objective...it shouldn't be 100% new when you que up for swtor pvp...

 

Sure a double sync premade with a perfect composition and BiS gear your team has 6 powertech (Fresh 70's) a single bladed lightsaber sin, and an op who has the roll bug....yeah I guess you will get farmed.

 

However there are trash players, mostly trolls or people who only want to get carried or even try at all. I won't sit by and deal with them all day. I get annoyed, and will tell them they are trash. It's true. No effort is sad.

 

Also if a team communicates and listens I think everyclass can guard...even a powertech. Respond to calls instantly...dont chase that operative then trickle over. Listen and move. Don't over rotate. If you see 2 other people leave then dont go. Unless they say 6 inc, or you notice mid only had 1 or 2 enemies left so go at least look at the othe rnode and decide if they have a lot if the person didn't specify. Anyone can guard as long as the team is aware and responds. Sometimes I start heading to a node when I feel like mid fighting has died down or people aren't trickling in like they were. It's obvious when you are in a 7 v 3...it means the other enemies just died or the other 4 are going to our offnode. Be smart...call...any class can guard...can others do it better...sure....should it matter? No.

Edited May 20, 2017 by VixenRawR

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Are people really this bad at marauders? I don't really have much issue on mine when facing any class in a 1 v 1 for the most part, sure people can get the best of me but I am not a useless sitting duck. Marauders have amazing dcds just people think everyone should have 3 h2f is dumb. Literally any class can guard a node solo with any spec. Some not as better as others but this game isn't 1 v 1...there are 7 teammates. If you make an early call, don't stand on top of the node, and don't break your first sap...you will get help before anyone finds out if you can 1 v 1 whatever class that approaches you.

 

"But two operatives could open up on you." Then it is a 1 v 2 and you shouldn't win. Still call, try to kite and cc. You have mad dash and predation and camo to buy some time.

 

If your team doesn't come to help because I think if people listen they should be there with 15ish seconds unless you are holding grass and snow for example. If they aren't coming it means they are stupid, all dead...which means they are bad and you will be triple capped in about 15 seconds XD

 

I think in terms of dcd...other classes should be on equal grounds with marauders. No insane h2f abilities. Imo dps classes should have no healing effects save something like shoulder cannon, like a small effect but not a second life. This forces the use of a healer and a tank. When you have a healer and a tank and classes with h2f and other stupidly op dcd that are up way to often...it gets dumb.

 

I love maras because they pose a challenge to use, while still being able to stand its own if you use dcd's correctly.

 

Giving marauders 3 h2fs, is the last thing I'd like to see happen. We shouldn't have them, and they shouldn't have them. We're not the problem, mercs and snipers are. Our DCDs are very good, but they cannot over come our total lack of self heals when every other class in the class has some level of selfheals. Without a healer on our team, A marauder's DCDs are not going to save you in the long run assuming competency in the classes involved is present. You will often die 2,3, or 4 times in that scenario. We get focused way to much by ranged while we are fighting other melee. . If you have to kill your enemy 3 times for it to stick and they only have to kill you once your not likely going to win in a battle of attrition without a healer, again assuming those involved are competent in their respective classes.

 

Thankfully, a great many of them are rerollers trying to hop on the FOTM train and are not very good with those classes.

 

I couldn't agree more that DPS shouldn't have heals, or very minor ones at best. Marauders should be the standard by which class balance for DPS specs could be achieved.

Edited May 20, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Kiesu]

Time. My guild is mostly full of family-owning players, we're rarely online at the same time to make a premade for anything other than raiding purposes. Thats just life. Youngsters who have more time on their hands team up more because they dont have to work, help their kids with homework, drive their wife/kids home or do laundry for 4 peoples worth . Thats just how it is. Edited May 20, 2017 by Kiesu

[AlCorazon]

There are a few threads here that blame PREMADES for ruining unranked PVP experience as if premades are some sort of cancer or "Luxury" that only certain "CHOSEN" players have access to.

 

Seriously guys. The question is: What is stopping you from making premades of 4 people yourselves ?

 

First of all this is an MMO which gives us the option to group up with friends or people you enjoy playing with. Why do you need to blame others from playing warzones with a group of friends ? I think it's pretty natural that it happens. It's like in schoolyard football. You team up with your buddies.

 

Unsurprisingly this complaint might come from the Pub side since they are the ones getting trainwrecked by imp premades a lot of times.

 

Nothing is stopping you from becoming friends with a healer.. or a tank or a good DPS and group up with them.

 

I dont live in swtor all day to make friends, I want to come in when I have time to play... friends are for real life.

[Kirpputori]

I'm sure you know this, and it's not what you meant... But just because you did the scoring doesn't mean you did all the work. I've been playing around with a DPS sorc for just a bit, and just got out of a huttball. I was a pulling-machine! I don't think I ever touched the ball, but I was right there, pulling the ball carriers up to the ramps so they could just do their speed/roll in for the score. Sure they got all the glory, but I got the bottom of the score board! Wait... that came out wrong.

 

Yeah My posts often come out bit "wrong" in that sense that i might just look past things like that. I notice them in wz's usually, but sometimes they don't make it in to my posts

 

You might consider hiding the fact that your were guarding a node as a Marauder if you want to not look foolish calling other people trash.

 

Everybody's a friggen PVP Super star....

 

Just wanna correct in here that i rather rarely call others trash. Sometimes it's just that i've been called trash and told to kill myself whole day (happens really often), and in the end i just say fxck it and start talking back.(which is then instantly wrong and tas-talks-trash-post and reporting for harassment and stalking worthy, but what they said was right thing to do and i deserved it. Apparently )

Never said that i was good or "pvp superstar" tho, but usually vs your average pug guarding on mara is easy-ish.

And no matter what class im on, i usually want to guard if it's a full pug match. Not saying pugs bad, but atleast i know i will call and try to guard rather than craft and not notice it being capped (<- based on true story)

Edited May 20, 2017 by Kirpputori