Help me with Critical Rating vs Power

[DavidAtkinson]

I need help with stats because I am completely lost.

 

I play a Hatred Assasin and started reading about what stats should I focus on and so on. I found Krea's guide to be very helpful for this spec. I am enjoying it more than deception and for me it's my ideal spec for my playstyle.

 

However, I don't really know what to focus on. I read a lot about critical diminishing returns and that if you go over 40% it will be completely uses.

 

At the moment I focus only on power and critical rating because i found alacrity useless, unless I put around 1000+ in it which will create DPS loss.

 

My stats are as folows:

 

Mastery: 7020

Endurance:8881

Power: 5024

Critical: 2867

Augment: 10 power and 4 critical

 

Accuracy: 101%

Critical Rating 47.86%

Critical Multiplier: 75.86:

Now from I read my critical rating is over the top and need to lower it, which I tried. I went full power augments which gave me around 5400 power and 2200 critical. Didnt see much difference... even delcine in performance ?

 

When I switched back to 2867 critical I was doing much more damage and much more easily.

 

So can anyone help me ? what is the way to go. I am kinda lost

 

I tried stacking mastery too but that was really bad.

[merovejec]

Geez man, get some alacrity!! Your a dot spec!

[LanternsUnite]

Not really a Sin expert, but typically the foundation of stats apply to most/all classes imo. Your balls deep into critical's diminishing returns by about 1,000 points. My only advice is switching enhancements around to have somewhere around 8-10% Alacrity. Note: this is NOT a damage boost. It's a damage potential/DPS boost aka faster damage consistently. Once you have this much alacrity, you will feel the difference and will never wanna play without it again. I typically don't ever augment Power, but rather Mastery since it affects crit chance, which indirectly effects bonus damage. I believe one Mastery aug has 0.1% chance vs Power aug has 20 bonus damage. What you really wanna think is your option, but I always prefer Mastery. But yeah, you're definitely way too far into crit and need to balance your enhancements (earpiece and implants included) in order to get some alacrity and balance your stats around 2009 crit and like 800+ alacrity.

[yellow_]

Accuracy: 101%

I would recommend running the somewhat standard 105% accuracy for hatred, you might be a dot spec but your dot spread comes from white damage, a fairly substantial % of your total damage comes from white damage, whiffed assassinates kill what little burst the spec has, the stat pools are so large now that running 300 accuracy (that's all you need for 105%) really doesn't hurt much, and -to top this all off- I'm not at all convinced it's a DPS loss to run the accuracy to begin with.

Power: 5024

Power is probably the worst stat at the moment. Mastery adds more DPS than power does, full stop (I can link the optimal stats for PVE thread if you don't want to take my word on this. Extra mastery occasionally makes an appearance for those builds, power never does.).

Critical: 2867

Going heavy into crit isn't something I'd be afraid of doing on assassin but this is way, way too high. To recap, I'd move 300 of this into accuracy and as much of the remainder as you can into mastery (using mastery crystals can help with this) if you are set on not running alacrity.

i found alacrity useless, unless I put around 1000+ in it which will create DPS loss.

I could ramble on about alacrity for an eternity but in my opinion assassin is one of the classes it's not especially strong for in pvp, especially if you're new enough to the game/class that you're not familiar with stats. Some will have their head explode over this notion but it's fine with me.

 

tl;dr you need to drop quite a bit of crit. I recommend moving 300 of it into accuracy and, if you're set on not running alacrity, as much of the remainder into mastery as you can(don't forget crystals can help move a tad more in that regard).

Edited May 12, 2017 by yellow_

[yellow_]

Geez man, get some alacrity!! Your a dot spec!

>people *still* believe this myth that alacrity is better for dot specs than burst

[stoopicus]

The reason mastery is selected over power is its buff th crit chance, no? With crit already satisfied I'd feel ok to aug power myself.

 

I would aim for ~1800 crit max, put the rest into mastery or power then alacrity. YMMV.

Edited May 12, 2017 by stoopicus

[yellow_]

The reason mastery is selected over power is its buff th crit chance, no? With crit already satisfied I'd feel ok to aug power myself.

 

I would aim for ~1800 crit max, put the rest into mastery or power then alacrity. YMMV.

Mastery is selected over power because it just does more DPS (inquisitor buff results in 1 point of mastery being 1.05 in practice).

 

Even if it were about crit chance nothing would change - crit and mastery cross pollinate. The surge from crit makes the crit chance gained from mastery more valuable, not less.

Edited May 12, 2017 by yellow_

[Memo-]

Mastery is selected over power because it just does more DPS (inquisitor buff results in 1 point of mastery being 1.05 in practice).

 

Even if it were about crit chance nothing would change - crit and mastery cross pollinate. The surge from crit makes the crit chance gained from mastery more valuable, not less.

 

So, Mastery gives you 0.2 bonus damage per 1 point of Mastery. Power gives you 0.23 bonus damage per 1 point of Power. Do you want to know what 0.2 x 1.05 is? (That is, the Mastery increase given by the Inquisitor buff.) That's right. 0.21 bonus damage. How is it better than Power if you don't account for the extra critical chance?

 

People were gearing Power over mainstat as far back as before 2.0. If it was an edge case then, it shouldn't be now: We have so much Mastery that the critical chance boon is quite small. Power is just better.

[saberscreen]

I know many will disagree but I find Critical Chance/Rating absolutely useless.

 

You do 100 damage. You have 80% surge. = 180.

You do 110 damage. You have 70% surge = 187.

You do 120 damage. You have 60% surge = 192.

 

What's the difference in having 35% critical chance or 25% Critical Chance/Rating, really? The difference is 10%. I would trade this 10% Critical Chance/Rating for actual damage. Every class has abilities and passives which already increase your Critical Chance/Rating percentages and some abilities (as well as gear bonus) even grant you Auto-Criticals or Damage Multipliers.

 

To magnify these abilities and Auto-Criticals I'd choose damage over Critical Chance/Rating, in combination with Alacrity and Accuracy.

Edited May 12, 2017 by saberscreen

[Memo-]

I know many will disagree but I find Critical Chance/Rating absolutely useless.

 

You do 100 damage. You have 80% surge. = 180.

You do 110 damage. You have 70% surge = 187.

You do 120 damage. You have 60% surge = 192.

 

What's the difference in having 35% critical chance or 25% Critical Chance/Rating, really? The difference is 10%. I would trade this 10% Critical Chance/Rating for actual damage. Every class has abilities and passives which already increase your Critical Chance/Rating percentages and some abilities (as well as gear bonus) even give you Auto-Criticals or Damage Multipliers.

 

To magnify these abilities and Auto-Criticals I'd choose damage over Critical Chance/Rating, in combination with Alacrity and Accuracy.

 

Autocrits benefit from your Critical Rating. You basically get double your Critical Multiplier that is applied from Critical rating on an autocrit. And yes, people will disagree, you are just plain wrong.

[yellow_]

So, Mastery gives you 0.2 bonus damage per 1 point of Mastery. Power gives you 0.23 bonus damage per 1 point of Power. Do you want to know what 0.2 x 1.05 is? (That is, the Mastery increase given by the Inquisitor buff.) That's right. 0.21 bonus damage. How is it better than Power if you don't account for the extra critical chance?

 

People were gearing Power over mainstat as far back as before 2.0. If it was an edge case then, it shouldn't be now: We have so much Mastery that the critical chance boon is quite small. Power is just better.

You've completely misunderstood me. To be more clear, I was saying you don't run mastery to hit some arbitrary crit chance after which "you are good."

 

you run it because it does more DPS, and the extra crit chance is part of that -- of course you have to account for it (the DPS value at the end kind of does that for you, though)

 

I wouldn't take random forum posters' word for it, so I don't expect people to do that for me either. Take a look at this thread or Bant's one before he quit. You'll see that some DPS specs at some item ratings hit the point where they stop just dumping more crit and alacrity. What stat do they go into at that point? They go into mastery and *never* power. Power is not just better, it's just worse. I even asked Bant about this directly.

 

Autocrits benefit from your Critical Rating. You basically get double your Critical Multiplier that is applied from Critical rating on an autocrit. And yes, people will disagree, you are just plain wrong.

^^ Edited May 12, 2017 by yellow_

[saberscreen]

Autocrits benefit from your Critical Rating.

 

Yup.

 

You basically get double your Critical Multiplier that is applied from Critical rating on an autocrit. And yes, people will disagree, you are just plain wrong.

 

100% + Critical Multiplier. What's your base again? (With companion bonus?) 51%? So you already get 151% at the base rate from an Auto-Critical.

 

Now, which Auto-Critical does more damage? 900 damage with 175% (2475) on top of that or 1000 with 151% (2510) on top of that? The more you sacrifice on Critical Chance/Rating, the less you can spend on actual damage. Simple equations show that actual damage will always result in higher Criticals. The chance of landing a Critical is just slightly lower. 10-11% compared to average? Which is really not a big deal if you keep in mind that every single one of your normal hits does more damage.

 

Plain wrong, hey?

Edited May 12, 2017 by saberscreen

[yellow_]

Plain wrong, hey?[/color]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=918622

 

this stuff gets modeled by a script that runs thousands of iterations for exceptional accuracy

 

yes, you are wrong

[Xertasian]

i will use my sin as example..she is min/max 248 fully geared..i have all datacrons unlock..i took screenshots of my sin..one she using full power augments..the second screenshot she using full mastery augments..pictures don't lie..so you all make your conclusion..

 

this 1st screenshot is all power augments..i show the damage of my skill with running power..

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab115/Xert_2010/Screenshot_2017-05-12_09_15_44_269312_zps6o2go6ta.jpg

 

the 2nd screenshot is with all mastery augments and mastery stim..also i show the damage of my skill running mastery..

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab115/Xert_2010/Screenshot_2017-05-12_09_26_50_006486_zps8aqcyj3z.jpg

 

the 107% acc. comes from 2 acc. enhancements..you need this so your maul and low slash and other white damage attack don't miss..alacrity on sin guess that a choice..but i fought sins running alacrity and i beat them..

Edited May 12, 2017 by Xertasian

[saberscreen]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=918622

 

this stuff gets modeled by a script that runs thousands of iterations for exceptional accuracy

 

yes, you are wrong

 

Simple equations suggest otherwise.

[stoopicus]

i will use my sin as example..she is min/max 248 fully geared..i have all datacrons unlock..i took screenshots of my sin..one she using full power augments..the second screenshot she using full mastery augments..pictures don't lie..so you all make your conclusion..

 

this 1st screenshot is all power augments..i show the damage of my skill with running power..

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab115/Xert_2010/Screenshot_2017-05-12_09_15_44_269312_zps6o2go6ta.jpg

 

the 2nd screenshot is with all mastery augments and mastery stim..also i show the damage of my skill running mastery..

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab115/Xert_2010/Screenshot_2017-05-12_09_26_50_006486_zps8aqcyj3z.jpg

 

the 107% acc. comes from 2 acc. enhancements..you need this so your maul and low slash and other white damage attack don't miss..alacrity on sin guess that a choice..but i fought sins running alacrity and i beat them..

 

This illustrates what was basically my understanding too. Note that mastery is basically just as good, only trivially worse on base and bonus damage and with a 1.3% higher crit chance. Really, it seems more or less a wash, which is what I would have expected.

[DavidAtkinson]

So for example on the imperial fleet.. everyone is saying that Power is the way to go. I play on the TRE and I asked some top ranked players about this and they all said power.

I got 1 oppinion in favor in mastery however.

 

I tried with 8000 mastery. I didnt quite feel as good as power. But maybe it needs more testing.. or time.

 

I will cut down my crit by 400 points and put those into accuracy.

 

But it seems that there is always a debate over mastery and power.... with no clear answer to which one is better.

[yellow_]

So for example on the imperial fleet.. everyone is saying that Power is the way to go. I play on the TRE and I asked some top ranked players about this and they all said power.

I got 1 oppinion in favor in mastery however.

 

I tried with 8000 mastery. I didnt quite feel as good as power. But maybe it needs more testing.. or time.

 

I will cut down my crit by 400 points and put those into accuracy.

 

But it seems that there is always a debate over mastery and power.... with no clear answer to which one is better.

I could credmine my ranked credentials (or Krea's) but it really is meaningless. Especially when I have posted links in this thread to extremely thorough math outputted by a script a couple of engineers prune in their free time for fun, who are well respected in the community specifically for their knowledge on this topic.

 

There are good players who are poorly informed about stats, and bad ones who are well informed. There is a clear answer to power versus mastery if you just know where to look.

 

This illustrates what was basically my understanding too. Note that mastery is basically just as good, only trivially worse on base and bonus damage and with a 1.3% higher crit chance. Really, it seems more or less a wash, which is what I would have expected.

this stuff barely matters to a large degree but I think I speak for many mmo players when I say it is fun to debate about min/maxing

 

Simple equations suggest otherwise.

For the spirit of science, will you go to this thread and explain to them why they're wrong?

Edited May 12, 2017 by yellow_

[kissingaiur]

So for example on the imperial fleet.. everyone is saying that Power is the way to go. I play on the TRE and I asked some top ranked players about this and they all said power.

I got 1 oppinion in favor in mastery however.

 

I tried with 8000 mastery. I didnt quite feel as good as power. But maybe it needs more testing.. or time.

 

I will cut down my crit by 400 points and put those into accuracy.

 

But it seems that there is always a debate over mastery and power.... with no clear answer to which one is better.

 

PvPers who are saying Power is better than Mastery are just living on outdated information (I will admit I use to be one of them). But if you talk to some of the brilliant members of the community who actually spent the time to do the testing, the numbers indicate that Mastery is better than Power in a DPS perspective.

Edited May 12, 2017 by kissingaiur

[stoopicus]

I honestly think they are equivalent once your crit is over 40%.

 

Doc isn't wrong, he's right - Bant did show a sustained DPS advantage with Mastery. But that's PvE parsing and simulation. I'm pretty sure the difference in PvP is minimal.

 

Edit: agreed Doc, it's always fun to bikeshed minmaxing

Edited May 12, 2017 by stoopicus

[mmmbuddah]

>people *still* believe this myth that alacrity is better for dot specs than burst

 

Its useful for both, but crucial for dot specs. =)

[Xertasian]

PvPers who are saying Power is better than Mastery are just living on outdated information (I will admit I use to be one of them). But if you talk to some of the brilliant members of the community who actually spent the time to do the testing, the numbers indicate that Mastery is better than Power in a DPS perspective.

 

i don't know about that Anna..going off my own experience..i beat a 248 geared sin 1 vs 1 running alacrity..i beat another sin running all mastery augs..i use all power augs..don't dabble to much in pve about numbers..from testing on pvp dummy on my ship..i seen more dps from the power than mastery augs..that doing just basic pvp rotations with sin..

 

this is a gray area since we all have opinions..guess it come down to user choice..

[kissingaiur]

i don't know about that Anna..going off my own experience..i beat a 248 geared sin 1 vs 1 running alacrity..i beat another sin running all mastery augs..i use all power augs..don't dabble to much in pve about numbers..from testing on pvp dummy on my ship..i seen more dps from the power than mastery augs..that doing just basic pvp rotations with sin..

 

this is a gray area since we all have opinions..guess it come down to user choice..

 

My opinion isn't based on some eyeballed stat experience of me attacking some dude in a warzone. I go by math, pure math. If you can personally give me 8000 iterations of 1 hour perfect parses on a player and somehow prove that Power has better DPS, I will be the first one who apologizes for lack of understanding on the topic. Till then, I will use the information provided to me by players who I can confirm are extremely more qualified and respected by the community to tell me which stat is better or worse with actual concrete math backing as evidence.

Edited May 12, 2017 by kissingaiur

[Evolixe]

I don't think you should go hard into either power, mastery nor crit tbh. I run 13% alacrity in deception right now and it works extremely well.

 

Sure, my attacks themselves don't hit as hard.

But I hit 13% faster. My cooldowns are more readily available and I have more control through reduced CC cooldowns.

 

All in all, with stat pools as big as they are now.. I'd advise all sins to at least get SOME alacrity.

And most definitely get 105% or slightly higher Accuracy.

[yellow_]

Its useful for both, but crucial for dot specs. =)

it has the same impact on both