SWTOR Story Paradox: The War On Iokath [SPOILERS]

[Euboe]

So I have been thinking recently in light of KOTFE/KOTET and now the new 5.2: War On Iokath. Though I am thrilled for the new chapter to begin I could not ignore an alarming problem in the SWTOR Story Arc.

 

As we know it everything from Chapter 1 to Chapter 3 is cemented in the SWTOR universe and the narrative is the Sith Empire and Republic at war with the ultimate conclusion of either the defeat of the Sith Empreror or the culling of the Dark Council (Sith Empreror is still defeated, not destroyed).

 

1) My first concern is if the PLAYER is truly making decisions within the story that will affect the universe then why is there not a different outcome? SWTOR sells us the ability of a no bar story where our decisions affect the outcome, and yet the outcome does not differ.

 

2) Makeb, Dread Masters & Order Of Revan; much like its KOTET/KOTFE this narrative does nothing to affect our position or course in the wider universe either the outcome is Iostope-5 is extracted or not but does that actually change Makeb no! Dread Master, like Revan are ultimately defeated by the combined forces of both Empire and Republic which is unavoiable, and we go back to killing one another as soon as we are done. Where is the alternatives? Or the tide of the war shifting?

 

3) Ziost, seems different due to the consequences that befalls the planet but ultimately it is the same as most conclusions in the grander scheme of the SWTOR story. You eventually reach a no point of return; your journey like most progression in previous content may differ but the destination is the same without any real change to the universe around you.

 

4) KOTFE/KOTET - 5 years has passed and the Sith and Republic has been defeated (Trailer). Yet I fly over to Korriban and boom everything is the same. No signs of difference that the Eternal Emprie marched in and upset the established order. KOTFE/KOTET actually go one step further and remove its narrative from the consequences of the wider universe in the form a nice compacted, repeatable chapters. Why do people feel so compelled to join my alliance to defeat the eternal empire? as far as I can tell nothing is changed and infact the Sith and Republic are not destroyed there STILL FIGHTING ONE ANOTHER. Infact my decision to be either Ruler of Zakuul and the Galaxy or Peacemaker does not actually change anything some heroic quest will still ask me Ruler of the Galaxy to go collect spare driod parts for those Jawas over there (really).

 

5) War on Iokath - we are told that we now get to choose faction regardless of original class (Something I think BW should of done at launch - but ohwell). Yet as we learn the decisions made on Iokath will have no consequence on our wider universe gameplay?. Infact BW reassure us NOTHING WILL CHANGE. The only thing we have to concern ourselves about is the future, our choices will affect future storylines which i am sure will have the same ultimate outcome along a pre-determined narrative arc.

 

6) Companions & Other Junk - The lack of wider affects in the SWTOR grand story trickles down to even the basic planetary missions. If I the player decides to murder those bunch of civilians or destroy their power generators as the mission story plays out. What is my penance or consequence for that action? Maybe a bounty placed on me? or cold act of surprise revenge nope instead; ohhhhw Dark Side points well no matter when I reach end game content i can flip a switch and undo any darkside points I may of done previous to the fact by simply spamming warzones. Companions in one word are; by-products. Yes our decisions affect our relationships with them but if the ultimate goal is to level them to influence 50 then I ask where is the choice if the goal is set, where is the alternative course, as the most logical course is too kiss *** to get them to 50. Granted in KOTET one becomes for ever grateful, while the other becomes Vaylins play thing but its decisions like that, that gets the PLAYERS hearts pumping as opposed to "going through the emotions". Also [spoiler ALERT] If the loss of companions at KOTFE with the immeadiate re-recruitment then why reset the influence or set the level to 50 before KOTFE? Ultimately makes no difference as you spam companion gifts just to try and get them upto 50 in order to unlock story content that neither affects you or you to it in the universe or immeadiately to the companions itself. I ended up sacking off getting companions to level 50 before KOTFE because it seemed pointless if then I was going to loose said companion straight away. Also where is my maybe-baby with Quinn, he wrote to me wanting a baby, when im sure family planning might call for a face-to-face, or hell even a holo-call after I just killed that entire family. But surely me murdering that entire family wouldn't make you think twice as my suitability to rear children? would it Quinn? no! okay! You seee where im going here - unconsequential.

 

7) Causality and Immersion; If you understand that SWTOR was pegged as the MMO where "Your in charge to determine our own Star Wars Destiny" then one would have to wonder what did we actually get? Lets consider the rule of causality;

Action 1 leads to Action 2 which leads ultimately to Action 3 which should inturn should affect Action 1. If we apply this to SWTOR; Mining Isotope-5 (Action 1) leads to the Destruction of Makeb (Action 2) which should ultimately lead to Empire finally winning the war against to Republic (Action 3) which then should lead me back to my new Action 1 e.g. What Rebel scum do I need to murder in order to make this happen? Wait! Makeb is still here! buuuut I wanted to win the war or are we always destined to wait for every Jedi Knight to vanquish the Empreror solo, over and over. (Wait! How can one lonely knight (level 50) vanquish the empreror at the end of chapter 3 and yet in beginning and end of KOTFE/KOTET doesn't stand a chance (level 70) and/or needs help from a dead daughter and a wayward son - strange).

 

If a player comes to same wonderful realisation that I have, that actually were not developing our own narrative were simply "along for the ride" with particular checkpoints then what will happen is a break down of immersion and a lack of investment or concern in said narrative from the player which im sure as your sole and biggest USP it wouldn't be a good thing.

 

8) Conclusion - FINALLY! I have to be honest I am not going to unsub from SWTOR because im bored of WoW though ESO been showing a promising comeback but more so I am a massive Star Wars fan but im not everyone and others may. I would suggest an overhaul of content; the stories in SWTOR are good just make them count okay. If im a player on the galatic stage (Strongholds) then I want to shape and bend the universe around me okay! I realise that there cannot be an infinite amount of recourse but surely there can be alternatives that count.

 

I would like the DEVS and other players to offer feedback or their opinions on this thread and if your feedback makes me eat the perverbial pie I will do so humbly. Also what happened to Pazaak? 500 years and everyone has forgotten how to play, also Pod-racing (Taris/Manaan) why isn't these things in the game like they were in KOTOR. Also what about aging and voices to go with it? Also where the hell is Kashyyyk and why hasn't Manaan been more developed?

 

Hope you have enjoyed the read and if its any consulation this took me hours to write on my mobile.

 

- Euboe.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Euboe
changing title to inc spoiler warning

[Typhaos]

Hi.

Nice post.

But listen, you won't get the same deep story in MMO as in single player RPG.

I also prefer playing solo. I'm story-focused.

But as much as I like games like Dragon Age, I can only play them once... I always make the choices I feel are the best so what is the point of repeating the game.

SWTOR managed to keep me for months, I made few characters (3 that I'm actually interested in) and while I'm waiting for new story content there are these "minigames" to pass the time - heroic missions to get some loot, decorating stronhold etc.

So as MMO it gives me something I wouldn't have in one-player RPG: the game is constantly expanding and the are always some activities available.

But the storytelling could be better, yes. But how would you fit entire universe to ideas of thousands of players? You can't. You create basic frame in which everybody can fit somehow.

I still get loading screen "Interlude" that says that Darth Marr is doing something, that's irritating, the developers surely could be more careful with such details...

Edited April 9, 2017 by Typhaos

[Joluka]

You played WoW, SWTOR is doing the time bubble thing Blizzard does with past expansions.

 

The Korriban you go to isn't the one Arcann and Thexan destroyed, it is the Vanilla Korriban, same with the rest unless you're in a Personal Phase. In your Personal Phases, that's where you really are changing the galaxy, but if those changes were to be reflected everywhere you go, even outside your Personal Phases, then you'd be a lonely, lonely person because not everyone has gotten to the point in the story where you're at.

 

I think this is fine.

[Euboe]

I hear you completely and I guess that is one perspective I did not consider, the integration of every single players unique version of the wider universe and game would be impossible. I guess I have come to expect more RPG/Solo attributes from this game which is a MMO.

 

Don't get me wrong I love this game and won't be giving it up anytime soon, I mean its Star Wars for heck sake lol. But even with your opinion of wider universe changes being basically impossible, wouldn't you like it to be possible even if its on a smaller scale. Like you said with "fitting into a frame that includes everyone somehow" wouldn't you like to see some changes to the wider universe after all the content? I know I would.

 

Anyway consider me schooled and humbly eating my proverbial pie *nom nom nom* now lets all go and drink some tarisian ale and play pazzaak - does anyone remember how they played it 500 years ago?

 

-Euboe

[Joluka]

I hear you completely and I guess that is one perspective I did not consider, the integration of every single players unique version of the wider universe and game would be impossible. I guess I have come to expect more RPG/Solo attributes from this game which is a MMO.

 

Don't get me wrong I love this game and won't be giving it up anytime soon, I mean its Star Wars for heck sake lol. But even with your opinion of wider universe changes being basically impossible, wouldn't you like it to be possible even if its on a smaller scale. Like you said with "fitting into a frame that includes everyone somehow" wouldn't you like to see some changes to the wider universe after all the content? I know I would.

 

Anyway consider me schooled and humbly eating my proverbial pie *nom nom nom* now lets all go and drink some tarisian ale and play pazzaak - does anyone remember how they played it 500 years ago?

 

-Euboe

 

Dude, hell yes. I wish BioWare would have just made this a solo RPG, that would've been so good. Unfortunately for everyone, they decided to go for an MMO that's no substitute to the gem that was SWG, and that's no substitute to a single player RPG. They just kinda have this strange hybrid that doesn't do enough for either genre.

[Euboe]

@Joluka - I would say i stand behind the MMO model of KOTOR, SWTOR is a wonderful game. I was simply airing my opinion that the lack of wider universe consequences. If I decide Makeb is destroyed I would like it to ACTUALLY be destroyed for me. Or if I decide to destroy that civilians home, i'd like bounty hunters to hunt me or the civilian to get his revenge. I understand that from now previous comments that having alter-narratuve ending or consequences for every single player is a tall order but at the same time its also quite feasible.

 

After Chapter 3 we all basically tow the line into the same narrative course; Makeb, Dread Masters, Revan, Ziost, KOTFE & KOTET all lead to the same narrative conclusions its only minor choices that we get to choose and these neither affect the outcome of the narrative. So wouldn't it easier to simply alter your wider universe geography e.g. Destoryed Korriban, Different NPCs, rebuilt buildings and etc to depict the course of the narrative with phase differences. You could have level 1-69 one phase and 70 a different or etc and actually many MMOs do infact implent this; WoW for example there is a phase differ right smack in the middle of Stormwind.

 

As for the problem of isolating yourself from other players, i am not suggesting everything be a different phase for higher levels just small details. Also the content now is soo easy the game is basically solo. I can do heroics, FPs, Dailies and Story on my own right upto level 70. The only things i cannot do are; OPs, PVP, Uprisings and etc. Also doing this could implent re-rolls to play with a new friend who just started SWTOR.

 

I mean SWTOR was mean't to be a story-driven MMO where your choices matter and determine the journey/outcome. All we have is the illusion of choice, not choice with meaning. I want to be the player who is developing my narrative as I want to play it, not a narrative playing out before me and I could to make minor conversational choices that don't affect the outcome, surely thats not too much to ask.

 

-Euboe

[Shayddow]

What I'd like to see is the following:

Keep Korriban/Tython the way they presently are <can go back to them for heroics/ etc.

Have 2 additional "planets" - only available for people who have gone thru - basically the Revan story and Kotfe :

these "planets" would be "Korriban2 and Tython2" = you would have the opportunity to a. rebuild on that planet/ flush out new bad things/ interaction with new and surviving NPCs. Not just flashpoint content like exists in the Korriban/Tython flashpoints, but Solo content. These would expand on what changes have happened since your character was carbonized for 5 years.

[dcaleb]

The answer is that someone at either EA or Bioware realized that making a bunch of different states tailor made to play choice is less profitable then jamming everyone into the same story with superficial differences. As a side effect, this means that if there is at any point an option to kill a character you like then tough luck because that character isn't ever doing anything important ever again so as not to cause problems in play throughs where the player did kill them off. Oh, and also it leads to stupid **** like Koth installing a bomb on your ship without asking your permission so you have to go dismantle it just like players who pissed Koth off and had him steal it so he had no need to ask your permission since it was 'his' now.

 

Honestly, at this point I just want the game to keep going for when I feel like replaying the old content (especially the 8 original class story lines) since as an MMO that will be gone forever someday when they pull the plug on the servers. All new content is almost certainly going to keep suffering from the same 'trying to pound a square piece through a circle hole' problem.

Edited April 11, 2017 by dcaleb