SWTOR is less than a month old, wow is 7 years old. Why do people compare?

[GraunKrynn]

I'll take SWTOR now over WOW now. Period. If you won't, nothing is keeping you here.

[Lankybrit]

Why do I compare a brand new Toyota Prius with a brand new Honda hybrid, and not the Honda that was released 7 years ago?

 

There. you have your answer.

 

Cheers.

[a_Stalker]

because it had 7 years to do research and development. A game released after it, should have an idea based on whats already done of what should be included an a next gen mmo.

 

 

Yes. You do not design a new car to be like 1908 Ford Model T. You make it to be as good or better than the latest 21st century model.

 

As it stands, swtor is like WoW when it launched. Not how WoW is today. Which is the problem.

I am sorry but no, it is much worse than classic WOW. In Classic WOW, Winter 2004, I could roll a new character, leave my starting area, and go level in some other area with other friends. I could take and drop quests as I pleased. Major quest lines were tied to player level, not to prerequisite quests. In SWTOR terms this would translate as : "you hit level 16, you get a short or long quest and you get your ship. Regardless what quests you have done before or where you did them". So no, SWTOR is a single player game really.

[DeathStarPlumber]

When WOW released it was new and fresh, although people will say WOW stole from everquest it still felt like a completely new game/experience. Swtor and even games like Rift feel & play like WOW thus the demand for "clones" to launch with the same features and content people are use to is a must.

 

 

The reality is , If SWTOR was a fresh and a completely new expierance or at least felt that way people wouldn't make comparisons but the fact is this game is very World of Warcrafty and thus people are going to compare.

[Dilkin]

Bcause ppl are fugging fidiots.

[DeathStarPlumber]

I wonder if the guys who designed the New chevy Camaro get pissed when people compare it to the Ford Mustang ? Thats basically what is going on here.

[druvokus]

People say wow has so many fetures and swtor is bad because it does not have them... wow has had 7 years to improve upon its self. Give Swtor a chance and time to put in the things your ******* complaining about.... ¬.¬

 

WoW was not the first MMO nore was it original all WoW did was take the MMO template and improve upon it by removing things that were annoying (e.g crafting had a chance to fail) it did this with games Such as Ever Quest and so on.

 

SWTOR has done the same it has take the MMO TEMPLATE not copyed wow but taken the MMO TEMPLATE Which all MMO's use and removed useless stuff, ADDED its own stuff and improved upon existing stuff.

 

People need to remember WoW its self is a quoat un quoat "Clone" of the MMO's that came before it.

 

My final point. Who cares if it borrowed things from other games, it happens all the time in everything. just shut up, get on with the game and stop comparing it to WoW; an MMO thats long out lived its greatness WoW "died" along time ago and is just clinging onto life and dragging its self out to long. Its 7 gosh darn years old, its had its time at the top and has set a good standard for MMO's to go by and people should accept the fact its long out lived its awesomenes.

 

Too funny. Was just discussing this with a friend. My buddy and me love the SWTOR ...but we also played WOW since it first started. A good 7 years. And, we both loved "Vanilla Wow" the best.

 

But, maybe that feeling has changed now. We feel we are actually playing the "Vanilla Wow" again (aka SWTOR) ....WOW has changed so much over the years and now I feel SPOILED with the WOW changes. While playing SWTOR ...I'm like, where is the "Looking For Groups" button? Why can't I choose what "Warzone" I want?

 

Here I was excited about having a "Vanilla SWTOR" and now ...now I want some of the things I want it to have like the "New WOW". And, I know that's what ruined WOW.

 

Damn. I'm spoiled with the new stuff

 

I love SWTOR ...now I just have to accept what I always wanted from the Vanilla WOW.

 

Finished venting LOL

Edited December 29, 2011 by druvokus

[Abriael]

Because people think that just becasue a game it's there on the market, it's possible for another developer to reproduce ALL it's features developed on several years at launch.

 

Of course it's not possible due to time, resources, personnel and budget constraints, as the launch of every single MMORPG demonstrates, but logic doesn't reside on the internet.

 

It's doubtless that SWTOR had the most polished, content and feature rich release of all times in the MMORPG market, it beats the release of WoW or any other MMORPG since and before by a power of two, but for some this still isn't enough.

 

They lack any kind of experience or knowledge about the challenges of developing an MMORPG, but unfortunately forums are made even for the ignorant to be able to flap their gums endlessly. Luckily, they're pretty inconsequential. The launch is a resounding success, and the game seems to be heading even higher. For every whiner on the forums, there are thousands in the game having fun.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Abriael

[Count_Fooku]

SWTOR has to compete with what's currently being offered by the competition, plain and simple.

 

Would you expect a competitor to be successful against Apple if they released a tablet with only half the features for the close to the same price as an iPad? No, you wouldn't.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Count_Fooku

[Abriael]

SWTOR has to compete with what's currently being offered by the competition, plain and simple.

 

Would you expect a competitor to be successful against Apple if they released a tablet with only half the features for the close to the same price as an iPad? No, you wouldn't.

 

They're completely different markets. You're comparing apples to oranges. Quality-wise, SWTOR can easily compete with wow, and beat it.

 

Quantity-wise, it's a different matter, features take time, resources and personnel to develop, and unless you expect games to take 10 years in developement, reproducing all the features of veteran games at launch simply won't happen. The fact that it NEVER happens should give you a quite clear clue on how feasible it is.

 

if you expect it, you need a reality check. That's all there's to it.

 

Besides, SWTOR has plenty features that WoW does not have (and will never have), and they aren't minor ones.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Abriael

[IMPERVIOUSCLAN]

"bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget" "bigger budget"

 

shut up with that crap!

..... Most of that budget went into the amazing voice actors if you remove that cost then its probably had less money than wow or any other mmo at design + wow had once again 7 years of 10,000-ish players play £10, $15, etc etc to fund their game swtor has most of those at launch and removed the useless **** wow failed at.

 

 

lolumadroflroflroflorfl

[kasanth]

Think of it as say a carnival.

Carnival "A" has been around for 7 years. In that 7 years, the owner has learned what rides are popular, what rides people really dont like.

What games people enjoy wasting money on, and what games never get played.

 

When carnival "B" opens up, the best thing they could do was look at carnival "A" and see what they have and how they run things.

If canival "B" has the rides and the games that do not interest people. People will just go spend money at carnival "A" that has all the rides and games they do like.

 

SWTOR is being compared to the 7 year old WoW because that 7 year old WoW has features in it that all MMOs need in it to be good to some people.

Features that any company making a MMO should look at and make sure they, or something like it or even better, is in their new MMO.

Edited December 29, 2011 by kasanth

[knightblaster]

The problem is that, unlike cars, which are re-released every year, games are accretive in a much more substantial way.

 

The comparison is therefore understandable ("why shouldn't I compare experiences I can have today for my dollar?"), but is one that any competitor to WoW will always lose. The reason is that no new MMO can afford to be financed to include what has been created by Blizzard over the course of the last six years of post-launch development -- can't be afforded in terms of up front risk capital in a market that is as fundamentally fickle as the MMO market is.

 

So the comparison is inevitable, and it is also inevitable that the newcomer game will always lose out in the comparison. This leads to a revolving door back to WoW for many players, likely at least until Blizzard's second MMO is released and likely becomes the new WoW. WoW owns the MMO space -- it's everyone's Daddy in the MMO space because it has structural advantages now that are simply to expensive to recreate out of the box for any new game. Blizzard won the war, decisively, it seems.

[Abriael]

Think of it as say a carnival.

Carnival "A" has been around for 7 years. In that 7 years, the owner has learned what rides are popular, what rides people really dont like.

What games people enjoy wasting money on, and what games never get played.

 

When carnival "B" opens up, the best thing they could do was look at carnival "A" and see what they have and how they run things.

If canival "B" has the rides and the games that do not interest people. People will just go spend money at carnival "A" that has all the rides and games they do like.

 

Luckily Carnival B has rides that Carnival A doesn't have, and they are sweet rides indeed.

 

 

WoW owns the MMO space -- it's everyone's Daddy in the MMO space because it has structural advantages now that are simply to expensive to recreate out of the box for any new game. Blizzard won the war, decisively, it seems.

 

Considering the fact that WoW has entered an increasing decline in the last year, looks like the war is far from ended. As of now, it continues to be on top by pure inertia, but inertia runs out after a while. It'll continue to bleed, and honestly I doubt there's anything Blizzard can do about it.

 

The few that come on the forum to whine that SWTOR doesn't have this or that feature from WoW are inconsequential in the big picture. SWTOR may not dethrone WoW by itself, but there arelots of potentially strong releases coming 2012. Christmas 2012 may indeed be a more lonely one in Azeroth, and if it happens, it will only be good for the market.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Abriael

[Twolow]

Why do I compare a brand new Toyota Prius with a brand new Honda hybrid, and not the Honda that was released 7 years ago?

 

There. you have your answer.

 

Cheers.

 

^^ Theres your answer ^^

 

You are giving the game industry too much slack when you say it's ok for them to not release a product on par with today's competitive market when I'm sure you wouldn't cut any other company slack.

 

I can walk into a cell phone store and see a new brand name I have never heard of on a product and see the features of that product rival that of traditional brands. I guess you would be ok if that phone looked like a Zack Morris brick phone and would rush off to the counter to buy one because you would preach 'cut them some slack. It took Motorola, Nokia, Apple, etc years to produce what they have for sale today'.

 

Technology and features change over time. Old company or new company I expect to see a phone book, a color screen, and text messaging on a phone for sale today just as I expect to see standard mmo features in a game for sale today.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Twolow

[Thelgow]

By this 7 year logic, should we also expect all new models of tvs to be crts, and the latest and greatest pc's have 2gb of memory?

[Abriael]

^^ Theres your answer ^^

 

You are giving the game industry too much slack when you say it's ok for them to not release a product on par with today's competitive market when I'm sure you wouldn't cut any other company slack.

 

I can walk into a cell phone store and see a new brand name I have never heard of on a product and see the features of that product rival that of traditional brands. I guess you would be ok if that phone looked like a Zack Morris brick phone and would rush off to the counter to buy one because you would preach 'cut them some slack. It took Motorola, Nokia, Apple, etc years to produce what they have for sale today'.

 

I'm sure you are aware of the fact that you're comparing two completely different markets, with completely different development cycles and completely different feature sets and evolution ratios.

 

Which causes your comparison to collapse under it's own weight. Comparing apples to oranges has never been a valid argument in any discussion environment.

[Sonickon]

So many.. weak humans in this thread.

[Case_Wight]

 

As long as the comparison is a fair one, I'd treat them equally.

 

But the whiners here want to compare a new product with one with seven years of production behind it. That's not an apples to apples comparison.

 

The whiners here also want to act like producing software -- and an MMO especially -- is the same as building a car. It isn't. They have no idea what they're talking about.

 

I can walk into a cell phone store and see a new brand name I have never heard of on a product and see the features of that product rival that of traditional brands. I guess you would be ok if that phone looked like a Zack Morris brick phone and would rush off to the counter to buy one because you would preach 'cut them some slack. It took Motorola, Nokia, Apple, etc years to produce what they have for sale today'.

 

Still a lousy comparison.

 

The car analogy the whiners use is just as bad as your celphone analogy here.

 

Producing software is different than building a car in fundamental ways. Producing software is different than producing phones.

 

But hey, if you're not persuaded, go back to WoW. I find SWTOR's innovations to be absolutely fantastic, and some UI bugs that will be gone inside 90 days don't bother me much.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Case_Wight

[TomWhiting]

You are giving the game industry too much slack when you say it's ok for them to not release a product on par with today's competitive market when I'm sure you wouldn't cut any other company slack.

 

Tell that to Spike... Their GOTY had so many holes on release, and STILL DOES, that it's not even funny...

 

The reality is very simple:

People expect too much. Yes, that is what it is.

 

EA/Bioware did a magnificent job on this game. The only people complaining are people with zero clue what they're actually doing, expecting this game to run on generic video cards, generic computers, computers built years ago. They're not actually SOLVING anything, they're just complaining to complain.

 

 

When it comes to PC gaming, you're ALWAYS going to leave a few out. Sorry kids, but you can't play the game. Get over it, it wasn't built for you. This is a minority, not a majority, however.

 

Can the game be improved? Oh, absolutely.

Will the game be improved? I have no doubt.

To compare a game which has been out a whopping 9 days now to something that has been out 7 years is just ridiculous. Once the whiners leave, the community will get back to a decent state. Till then, well, we're just stuck with 'em.

[Forsbacka]

As long as the comparison is a fair one, I'd treat them equally.

 

But the whiners here want to compare a new product with one with seven years of production behind it. That's not an apples to apples comparison.

 

The whiners here also want to act like producing software -- and an MMO especially -- is the same as building a car. It isn't. They have no idea what they're talking about.

 

 

 

Still a lousy comparison.

 

The car analogy the whiners use is just as bad as your celphone analogy here.

 

Producing software is different than building a car in fundamental ways. Producing software is different than producing phones.

 

But hey, if you're not persuaded, go back to WoW. I find SWTOR's innovations to be absolutely fantastic, and some UI bugs that will be gone inside 90 days don't bother me much.

 

 

Innovations? Apart from voice acting this is a WoW copy, bad one.

[Alexzs]

I don't know really, i've been playing wow since BC. Can't really see what's there to compare. They're both two different concepts. I've been raiding every single raid out there, been pvping every single time. It's pretty refreshing to have something in a different universe. Now sure, you can go compare mechanics, but the quests have been made in a such a different way, they feel way more do able then on wow. Sure the roll this brick over this amount of x seems fun too. until you actually notice the mechanics are the same aswell.

Now you can go flame me about it, but everyone has standards and opinions on this. I myself can't decide and just end up playing both.

 

Please look further then your nose when it comes to comparing a certain game they're all individual. And you don't research someones game out, if you ever checked certain prosecutions like the one on bethesda you would know.

 

 

Edit: Anyway they got my sub pretty locked down, just hope that the game won't die. It has too much potential.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Alexzs

[knightblaster]

Considering the fact that WoW has entered an increasing decline in the last year, looks like the war is far from ended. As of now, it continues to be on top by pure inertia, but inertia runs out after a while. It'll continue to bleed, and honestly I doubt there's anything Blizzard can do about it.

 

The few that come on the forum to whine that SWTOR doesn't have this or that feature from WoW are inconsequential in the big picture. SWTOR may not dethrone WoW by itself, but there arelots of potentially strong releases coming 2012. Christmas 2012 may indeed be a more lonely one in Azeroth, and if it happens, it will only be good for the market.

 

Of course WoW is losing players, but it's so far ahead that it doesn't matter much, really. Even after the massive bloodletting in 2011, it has a subscription base that would make any other MMO-funding entity literally drool. I am no WoW fanboy, I think it has been mostly harmful to the genre of game, but it is what it is. I also expect that bits and pieces of the WoW fanbase will migrate here and there, but that doesn't mean any one game will be a real competitor to WoW. The only thing that can kill WoW at this stage is itself -- if it fails to keep itself updated and/or has a string of years like 2011 where they piss off largish chunks of the playerbase.

[Abriael]

Innovations? Apart from voice acting this is a WoW copy, bad one.

 

Aside from the fact that it's not just voice acting (even if people with extremely weak arguments try to minimize the innovation to that in order to prove a false point), but the whole storytelling structure to be completely different, there are plenty other differences. The whole flow of combat is different (hello no autoattack), crafting is different, companions and so forth.

 

To put it down simply, you're wrong, and flying in the face of reality and logic doesn't make it less evident.

 

 

Of course WoW is losing players, but it's so far ahead that it doesn't matter much, really. Even after the massive bloodletting in 2011, it has a subscription base that would make any other MMO-funding entity literally drool. I am no WoW fanboy, I think it has been mostly harmful to the genre of game, but it is what it is. I also expect that bits and pieces of the WoW fanbase will migrate here and there, but that doesn't mean any one game will be a real competitor to WoW. The only thing that can kill WoW at this stage is itself -- if it fails to keep itself updated and/or has a string of years like 2011 where they piss off largish chunks of the playerbase.

 

 

the "massive bloodletting" in 2011 is just the tip of the iceberg. 2011 didn't have any massive releases in the MMORPG market (even rift is a quite small one all things considered) and SWTOR came too late for it's effects to be visible in 2011. The real "massive bloodletting" will be in 2012. There's a line of AAA MMOs ready to be released next year, and coming all together they will most probably hurt wow quite hard.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Abriael

[a_Stalker]

I do not agree that some basic elements missing from SWTOR are due to lack of budget. To the contrary they are designed that way.

 

1. The ability to reach level X and then pick up a quest at level X in order to receive item Y. This is the WOW standard: you pick up quests relative to your level simply because you have reached the level - we do not care how you have reached the level. In SWTOR you have to follow a single line of quests from level 1 to X. Terrible. And not budget related.

 

2. Big, unconstrained open maps. It is much easier to create an open map than 100 smaller interconnected tiny maps. Major failing that killed Age of Conan and probably many other MMOs where you had to follow straight paths and most of the surroundings were just props.

 

I would love SWTOR to start off with say 3 planets and with VAST, open, flyable maps on each planet. And then I would pay for expansions where they would introduce more planets with their own fauna and also vast maps.

 

Sadly this MMO and so many others are as if they are designed PURPOSELY to fail. WOW is not a great game, it has many failings. It is just that all other MMOs are crap that we go back to WOW.