americanaussie Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 The latest teaser has the republic gearing for war against the alliance with Jace Malcolm heading to Iokath himself. If you side with the Empire and go to war with Jace. How can Theron remain loyally at your side? I know they aren't close but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueShiftRecall Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) This is one part of this new Iokath story I’m quite interested in. How is Theron going to react if your character is completely and utterly loyal to the Empire and then even more so how will he react if you’re his LI and you remain fully loyal to the Empire and fully turn on Jace/Republic side? I can see Lana following you through thick and thin no matter what decisions you make but Theron to me has always seemed to lean more towards to the Republic, could he really stand by you if you doom the Republic and/or Jace and his mother? Could this be a point where Theron gives you an ultimatum to him staying or leaving? Honestly as much as this would be such a huge story moment I don’t see it happening as I don't see them taking away Lana or Theron from you at this point, though I wouldn't mind being proven wrong. I can't wait to see the interactions between my character, Theron and Jace and double for those romancing Theron on an Imp character. It's been awhile but I'm actually looking forward to this release! Edited March 30, 2017 by BlueShiftRecall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLazarillo Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Does Theron know who his father is? Does Jace know who his son is? They make a big deal about his mother given that he took her name, but his father never really comes up during the story. If it's just an Empire/Republic thing, I could see Theron sticking by the Alliance. His dialogue is KotFE makes it clear he really doesn't care about the Republic itself much anymore, at least, not to the degree that I see him abandoning the Eternal Alliance simply for choosing to work with the Empire. That said, yeah, I can see how killing his father might make him change his mind, but again, that's only if he knows about it, and I'm not sure he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RarePorcupine Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Yes, Jace and Theron are aware of each other and their relationship. Bioware posted a short story of them meeting to build their relationship...I think right before KOTFE (?). I'd definitely like to see their relationship matter. I don't think they'd have Theron like turn on the player or anything (I think Bioware would want to avoid having one of its two defined main companions possibly leave) but your choices with regards to Jace should have an effect on Theron. Ideally, they should also affect your character's relationship with him too, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americanaussie Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 Yes, Jace and Theron are aware of each other and their relationship. Bioware posted a short story of them meeting to build their relationship...I think right before KOTFE (?). I'd definitely like to see their relationship matter. I don't think they'd have Theron like turn on the player or anything (I think Bioware would want to avoid having one of its two defined main companions possibly leave) but your choices with regards to Jace should have an effect on Theron. Ideally, they should also affect your character's relationship with him too, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. Yeah, I agree. Even if he didn't know who his father is, I'd think he'd have a good guess being a spy and all. Jace would likely know immediately, given Theron's name and age. I want it to matter at least somewhat. Theron has been passionate about saving lives and the like even through kotfe. I think if you threaten his father, then it should affect your relationship with him. I'm not sure he'd walk out of the alliance, and he wouldn't do it Koth style, but he has had no problem in telling the "Commander" how he feels about specific actions from Ziost onwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I can't imagine Theron working with the Empire without them (story tellers) just saying he's okay. Lana I can imagine being okay with it, even if it wouldn't be her first choice. Especially if she's the LI. Truthfully, other than the Empire being her home and being a bit dark sided (in areas the Republic may not care for her to be DSed in), she seems like she could go to the republic side and even possibly get involved in it's politics. Also, would we lose 4X or Pierce with going the opposite side? They both seem like they would leave us quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RarePorcupine Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) Also, would we lose 4X or Pierce with going the opposite side? They both seem like they would leave us quick. They've said current companions won't be affected by your choice (which is disappointing to me, since there are some companions who definitely should care - especially your trooper companions and Pierce. It also makes it feel like BIoware just doesn't want to deal with having to account for its potential consequences except if it's easy to do so). That said, they have also said that (some?) future companions will react to you based on your decision - the specific example they gave was Felix Iresso being mad if you support the Empire. Edited March 31, 2017 by RarePorcupine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter_Eh Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I think Lana and Theron's loyalty lies with the Outlander and the Alliance as an independent state. Also it's worth noting that the Sith Empire is the Alliance's only formal ally whereas the Republic was sitting back waiting for everyone else to exhaust themselves, not to mention that business with Saresh. It makes diplomatic sense to ally with the Empire and even if Theron doesn't like it I think he'll stay loyal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shayddow Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 If he didn't walk out on my little fascist pro-empire-supported Darth Jadus Chiss* IA <his LI> for trying to kill his mom <during Odessan quest: although Lana was - next time you get the opportunity, do it - although Lana did "doctor" up the note Shan sent Theron>, then I don't think he'll leave for his dad either. * <the only light sided choices she made on HOTH were because the officer was a fellow Chiss - not because it was the "right" thing to do> The only choices she would ever make that wouldn't be on the Empire's side would be if somehow the Chiss Hegemony had a divergent interest than the Empire. And Theron, having "known" her all the way thru Makeb and onwards - would be aware of that - if not thru on-screen dialogue, with off-scene "head canon". :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tashia Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I have said it once, I will say it again -- after what the Empire did to my agent, I will never be truly on their side -- Chiss never forget ... I may side to get my agent's companions back, but even then, if they turn on me; I have no problem getting rid of them permanently The only ones I trust are Theron and Lana -- and I too am a loyal Chiss, to my people and culture ( head canon even had me take an oath of alliegence to my people and their cause) -- remember, the Chiss are only Empire allies because the Chiss wanted the Empire to stay away from their home world, colonies, and claimed space... I see myself as more of a Republic character now, so Theron and I, as well as Jace and I should be ok-- I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 I honestly think it will diminish Theron as a character if he sides with a dark-sided, 100%-loyal-Imperial character over his father and the Republic. If he picks the Alliance over his past, I can relate to that. An Imperial pragmatist who makes decisions Theron respects would also make sense as someone he sides with. But there has to be some line he won't cross. I understand that Bioware need some reliable coathangers on which to drape their plot... and I suppose we'll see how Iokath goes... but if things pan out as I expect then I will lose a lot of respect for Theron. I hope that Bioware haven't taken it too much to heart that lots of people seem to hate Koth just because he stands up for his principles. I actually love how reactive Koth is to the PC's decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) I hope that Bioware haven't taken it too much to heart that lots of people seem to hate Koth just because he stands up for his principles. I actually love how reactive Koth is to the PC's decisions. To be honest i dislike Koth but its his personality i didn't like, i actually respected the character more when he left he stuck to his principles its foolish to think that everyone in your alliance would agree with you. TBh depending on what the republic actually do on the planet my Jedi may not support them, so far they have been ***** to my Jedi and he has little love for them left, even the Empire his enemy that in my head cannon he has fought since they arrived in republic space got behind him so he may risk his relationship with Theron if the Republic goes to far. Edited April 13, 2017 by Kaisernick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) To be honest i dislike Koth but its his personality i didn't like, i actually respected the character more when he left he stuck to his principles its foolish to think that everyone in your alliance would agree with you. Yeah, that's fair about Koth's personality. He certainly has his facepalm moments, like "he was always good to Zakuul." Oh, sure, that makes everything okay... But I am glad to see that even some of those who don't like his personality appreciate him standing up for what he believes. Sometimes it seems to me that, across Bioware games, the most popular characters are those who never challenge or disagree with the PC. This bothers me a bit, because sometimes the PC does things worthy of challenge and disagreement. TBh depending on what the republic actually do on the planet my Jedi may not support them, so far they have been ***** to my Jedi and he has little love for them left, even the Empire his enemy that in my head cannon he has fought since they arrived in republic space got behind him so he may risk his relationship with Theron if the Republic goes to far. Yeah, this all comes with a big proviso that it depends on how the story is handled... but it's going to take something truly spectacular for most of my characters to switch sides. (Aside from my main agent, who essentially already switched sides at the end of chapter three.) Regardless of actions by individual leaders, such as Saresh's idiocy and Acina's pragmatism, the Republic and Empire are still largely what they've always been. One thing that's very hard to ignore is the role of slavery in the Empire. Edited April 13, 2017 by Estelindis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I honestly think it will diminish Theron as a character if he sides with a dark-sided, 100%-loyal-Imperial character over his father and the Republic. If he picks the Alliance over his past, I can relate to that. An Imperial pragmatist who makes decisions Theron respects would also make sense as someone he sides with. But there has to be some line he won't cross. I understand that Bioware need some reliable coathangers on which to drape their plot... and I suppose we'll see how Iokath goes... but if things pan out as I expect then I will lose a lot of respect for Theron. I hope that Bioware haven't taken it too much to heart that lots of people seem to hate Koth just because he stands up for his principles. I actually love how reactive Koth is to the PC's decisions. Agreed. Though I would want old companions to make a choice too. I also don't expect them to be even in their choices either. Torian for example would seem to be much more willing to go with either side than Pierce, who is rah rah Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Yeah, that's fair about Koth's personality. He certainly has his facepalm moments, like "he was always good to Zakuul." Oh, sure, that makes everything okay... But I am glad to see that even some of those who don't like his personality appreciate him standing up for what he believes. Sometimes it seems to me that, across Bioware games, the most popular characters are those who never challenge or disagree with the PC. This bothers me a bit, because sometimes the PC does things worthy of challenge and disagreement. Yeah, this all comes with a big proviso that it depends on how the story is handled... but it's going to take something truly spectacular for most of my characters to switch sides. (Aside from my main agent, who essentially already switched sides at the end of chapter three.) Regardless of actions by individual leaders, such as Saresh's idiocy and Acina's pragmatism, the Republic and Empire are still largely what they've always been. One thing that's very hard to ignore is the role of slavery in the Empire. Empire is pro slavery and at this point, one would think the PC should realize, taking over the Empire is not likely to happen with Acina in charge. Even with the PC having the Alliance, having defeated Arcann and Zakuul, they'd likely start losing allies from the Empire/Republic as they go back to their chosen side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 Agreed. Though I would want old companions to make a choice too. I also don't expect them to be even in their choices either. Torian for example would seem to be much more willing to go with either side than Pierce, who is rah rah Empire. Agreed. It makes a lot more sense for some companions to be fine with either side than others. Pierce and 4X are already faction-exclusive. The only way I can imagine to keep them will be if it's somehow hidden from them who you sided with? The whole picking sides business seems confined to the Iokath story, so maybe it doesn't matter to those who don't become involved in Iokath. Bioware has been very restrictive in the companions they allow to accompany us during the Zakuul story thus far - we can't just pick who we want like we could before - so that might be how they handle it. Empire is pro slavery and at this point, one would think the PC should realize, taking over the Empire is not likely to happen with Acina in charge. Even with the PC having the Alliance, having defeated Arcann and Zakuul, they'd likely start losing allies from the Empire/Republic as they go back to their chosen side. Yes, Acina is very able, the kind of pragmatic leader who can bring the Empire forwards. But the kind of bringing forwards that she wants probably does not include more liberty or rights for most of the people in the Empire. I'll be very interested to see the form that allying with the Republic or Empire will take here, and whether it takes into account past choices such as whether you allied with Acina in KotET ch 2. My "main" outlander, my light-sided sage, was 100% about the coalition-building. From SoR onwards, she always picked options to create more trust between Republic and Empire, rather than using subterfuge to win advantage for her own side in preparation for some future betrayal. When it came to picking 2/3 escape pods to live, she let the civilians from Zakuul die, even though she would've preferred to save them, because she thought that letting the folks in the Republic pod live and the Imperials die would've created strife in the Alliance. Now that she has to pick a side and there's no other choice, she'll have to go with the Republic, but I think it'll feel like a loss to her after all that. Maybe Acina will do something that'll make it make sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 I hope that Bioware haven't taken it too much to heart that lots of people seem to hate Koth just because he stands up for his principles. I actually love how reactive Koth is to the PC's decisions. While Koth did come off as whiny a lot of the time, I respected that he actually had the balls to actually act on his whining and not just yell from the corner. Also, I wouldn't worry about Bioware taking that too heart, they're not afraid to have companions call your arsehole actions out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 . Sometimes it seems to me that, across Bioware games, the most popular characters are those who never challenge or disagree with the PC. This bothers me a bit, because sometimes the PC does things worthy of challenge and disagreement. Really, that's interlaced with another thing I've noticed about a lot of the Bioware Games. People demand more consequences for their choices, but really they seem to only mean good consequences. A choice ending up with your all mighty PC looking bad? Bad concequence. A companion you like not agreeing with your choices and calling you out on it? Bad consequence. This is especially evident with Iokath. On the story aspect, I'm seeing a bunch of people complaining that Bioware is actually making their choice effect the companion they get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 Really, that's interlaced with another thing I've noticed about a lot of the Bioware Games. People demand more consequences for their choices, but really they seem to only mean good consequences. A choice ending up with your all mighty PC looking bad? Bad concequence. A companion you like not agreeing with your choices and calling you out on it? Bad consequence. This is especially evident with Iokath. On the story aspect, I'm seeing a bunch of people complaining that Bioware is actually making their choice effect the companion they get. Well yes. You have people who would rather have the female over the male and those who would rather have the male over the female. However, if that is how they make the choice, then they may ally with the side they don't want to. Not to mention, what if only Warrior can kill Quinn? Then people don't get their meta revenge on him multiple times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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