Phase walk

[Romansonesix]

Higher cooldown Force Speed doesn't seem like that bad a tradeoff tbh.

It lets go of a bit Mobility as well as Survivability. Both of which are things that Phase Walk grants back in return.

 

Not sure if that would be enough to even it out, but there is only one way to find out. And that is doing.

Not just PTS. Since PTS is a joke in this game. Just let it go live and get some wings, then evaluate.

 

Phase Walk is a fun ability because of diversity.

Phantom Stride is not a proper replacement for it, what Bioware likely thought it to be.

 

I would not miss PS much but historically bw nerfs damage for everything.

[Evolixe]

I would not miss PS much but historically bw nerfs damage for everything.

 

Nerfing damage for Phase Walk would be the stupidest thing in history.

And I think Stride and PW can co-exist on one class at the same time. Just gotta do it right.

[stoopicus]

The thing that made PW fun on sins was that it took skill to use right, and was suitably rewarding.

[verfallen]

Nerfing damage for Phase Walk would be the stupidest thing in history.

And I think Stride and PW can co-exist on one class at the same time. Just gotta do it right.

 

there's mobility sure, but phase walk walking when hard stunned give perhaps a bit too much survivability to sins, and makes their stealth out much more efficient than even an operative.

 

tbh, I agree it would be fun, I agree it makes for some interesting gameplay (and I use it that way on sorc, not just as an oh-crap button, altough I'll give you its the use I make of it 70% of the time) but the truth is sin is mostly fine right now in pvp. They are competitive for ranked, do well overall, damage is good, and I do think its not exactly a massive issue to look at right now.

 

As for non-heal sorc not using it, idk on other servers, but on JC the overall quality of dps sorc/sage is very low. The vast majority try to facetank marauders and wonder why they die.

[Sargrith]

I would agree. Sins can make better use of it. It was also our class ability in the first place. I'm just not sure what i would be willing to give up to have it back.

 

 

Its a combat escape. Some classes have none, for one to have two is game breaking. If they want it back take away their combat stealth.

[stoopicus]

Its a combat escape. Some classes have none, for one to have two is game breaking. If they want it back take away their combat stealth.

 

1. It wasn't game breaking before.

2. Good 'Sins didn't use it for an escape nearly as much as they used it offensively.

3. It seemed very fun to use offensively. I wasn't really pvping a 'sin much back then though, so I wasn't good at it.

Edited April 3, 2017 by stoopicus

[Sargrith]

1. It wasn't game breaking before.

2. Good 'Sins didn't use it for an escape nearly as much as they used it offensively.

3. It seemed very fun to use offensively. I wasn't really pvping a 'sin much back then though, so I wasn't good at it.

 

They didnt take it away because of how balanced it was.

 

It was used both ways, often to defend nods but also as a method of getting away in a tough situation. And combat stealth is still used both defensively and offsensively, so .... the class does not need two escapes. I am not sure the sage needs it but it has made the sage far more viable. Now the healing sage is op but I don't think its because of phase walk. Unfortunately it has left the commando healer as the only healer without an escape so....

[Evolixe]

there's mobility sure, but phase walk walking when hard stunned give perhaps a bit too much survivability to sins, and makes their stealth out much more efficient than even an operative.

 

tbh, I agree it would be fun, I agree it makes for some interesting gameplay (and I use it that way on sorc, not just as an oh-crap button, altough I'll give you its the use I make of it 70% of the time) but the truth is sin is mostly fine right now in pvp. They are competitive for ranked, do well overall, damage is good, and I do think its not exactly a massive issue to look at right now.

 

As for non-heal sorc not using it, idk on other servers, but on JC the overall quality of dps sorc/sage is very low. The vast majority try to facetank marauders and wonder why they die.

 

You don't want to PW hard stuns anyway because you have 30% damage reduction in it.

It isn't just survivability, and it wouldn't be too much. Especially not if Force Speed goes back to 30s base.

 

Its a combat escape. Some classes have none, for one to have two is game breaking. If they want it back take away their combat stealth.

 

Lol what?

 

And Sorc Barrier isn't an escape? It's literally an instant full reset.

That's more than what a Sin would get out of Phase Walking.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Evolixe

[Sargrith]

Lol what?

 

And Sorc Barrier isn't an escape? It's literally an instant full reset.

That's more than what a Sin would get out of Phase Walking.

 

Seriously you would think even a sin player looking to get free stuff wouldn't be so clearly silly. Barrier is no escape, its at best a short time out, you are still in trouble just for a short time you are safe, you can't move away to reset the fight or anything like you can with phase walk or combat stealth. All you did was buy time. Please try harder to excuse one class having two while denying another any. Personally I don't like any class being able to escape since all classes can't but be serious, sin's have theirs and sages do too now.

[Evolixe]

Phase Walk is only the escape you claim it to be, if you let it happen. At that point, it's a learn to play issue on your end. Like letting Marauders Stealth out and reset. Same thing, except PW doesn't provide stealth making it even easier to spot.

 

Hell, when Sins had PW, looking for where it is was part of your job as an opponent.

Obviously this doesn't apply to Sorcs because you can see them cast it in the first place.

 

 

Barrier is an escape. It fully resets any attempt to kill said Sorc.

The only way you are in trouble after using it is if you already lost before you used it

(team is low, yadayada. At this point Combat Stealthing as a Sin is definitely not more useful.. your teammates would die just as fast, except you don't gain anything of a shield while you stealth),

or if your team is **** and doesn't do anything to help.

[Sargrith]

Both the op and sin can actually use utilities to give their combat stealth a shield, and they certainly can escape using it.

 

No one class can prevent a nod capture as long as a stealth class can, none can take one from a guarded node as well either. And none can just disappear if they screw up and reset the entire situation.

 

Phase walk allows a Sage to plant his teleport somewhere hopefully safe and pull back there when it gets too much. On a healing sage that's very powerful as they can quickly heal to full but even on a dps sage they have a chance to rearm and reset the fight to a reasonable degree.

 

Giving both pw and stealth to one class is over board. And a class that has solid defense to the point it is already tougher then other classes without either pw or stealth. If a Vangard asked for PW I would listen, they need help but a sin begging for more, that is just being greedy.

[Evolixe]

Both the op and sin can actually use utilities to give their combat stealth a shield, and they certainly can escape using it.

 

Oh yeah? Seems you know the Class better than I do.

Please do show me this hidden utility master Sargrith.

 

No one class can prevent a nod capture as long as a stealth class can, none can take one from a guarded node as well either. And none can just disappear if they screw up and reset the entire situation.

 

PW wouldn't change that. Unless you're bad, or the Sin combines it with another cooldown that would already give that effect anyway.

 

Giving both pw and stealth to one class is over board.

And a class that has solid defense to the point it is already tougher then other classes without either pw or stealth.

 

Can you give 1 reason why this would be the case? So far, the only thing you've done is screaming bloody murder but you havn't given any reasoning or facts as to why PW would be overboard on Sins.

I mean, we had it before and it was fine.

 

If we give up a little bit of Mobility and Survivability through Force Speed I don't see the issue.

Everything can be finetuned.

 

Who says it has to be here and now + PW? Nobody says that.

PW is fun and engaging. And actively working towards giving it back to the class would be a good thing for the game given it'd make the class more fun to play.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Evolixe

[Sargrith]

Oh yeah? Seems you know the Class better than I do.

Please do show me this hidden utility master Sargrith.

 

Cloak of Resilience is the shadow version. Its gives you two seconds of resilience when you activate force cloak. I could be snide too but I wont be, I will keep to the facts. It does have a shield and there you have it. By the by I have both a shadow and assassin I play very often. Both are perfectly fine without PW and both are extremely strong and versatile as is. Far stronger then other classes not begging for more.

 

I mean, we had it before and it was fine.

 

Guardians had the old smash monkey build before and it was fine....no it wasn't nor was PW with a sin....its why both disappeared.

 

Your trying to argue that a class that is perfectly competitive right now needs more by taking it from a class with only one competitive build. That's just not logical. If shadows were weak I might listen, how can I when they are anything but.

 

I have told you many times now why they shouldn't have two escapes. That you don't want to hear that doesn't mean I didn't say it. The shadow has an escape as is. Having is just silly. If you want to give up combat stealth sure, otherwise no.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Sargrith

[Evolixe]

Cloak of Resilience is the shadow version. Its gives you two seconds of resilience when you activate force cloak. I could be snide too but I wont be, I will keep to the facts. It does have a shield and there you have it. By the by I have both a shadow and assassin I play very often. Both are perfectly fine without PW and both are extremely strong and versatile as is. Far stronger then other classes not begging for more.

 

A shield is something that Absorbs damage. Shroud doesn't absorb damage and it is not a shield.

Nor does it grant anywhere close to the amount of defensive capacity that barrier does. But nice try.

 

Guardians had the old smash monkey build before and it was fine....no it wasn't nor was PW with a sin....its why both disappeared.

 

That's your opinion. From an outsider point of view. I disagree, as someone with experience from all perspectives.

 

Your trying to argue that a class that is perfectly competitive right now needs more by taking it from a class with only one competitive build. That's just not logical. If shadows were weak I might listen, how can I when they are anything but.

 

Who says anything should be taken? Phase Walk could be an inquisitor-wide ability. Like I said before, everything can be fine tuned. And I play a game to have fun, so if there's a way to make a class more fun, we should probably do that

 

I have told you many times now why they shouldn't have two escapes. That you don't want to hear that doesn't mean I didn't say it. The shadow has an escape as is. Having is just silly. If you want to give up combat stealth sure, otherwise no.

 

The fact that you think Phase Walk is effectively the same as Combat Stealth shows your lack of understanding.

It's okay that you don't play the class and therefore don't fully understand how it works.

But that also means you are in no place to make the kind of remarks that you are.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Evolixe

[Sargrith]

A shield is something that Absorbs damage. Shroud doesn't absorb damage and it is not a shield.

Nor does it grant anywhere close to the amount of defensive capacity that barrier does. But nice try.

 

Moving the goal posts after the fact is lame. Resilience is a shield and you know it, or maybe you don't know the class well enough. That is seeming more and more likely. You said shield, it is a shield. Try again.

 

Who says anything should be taken? Phase Walk could be an inquisitor-wide ability. Like I said before, everything can be fine tuned. And I play a game to have fun, so if there's a way to make a class more fun, we should probably do that

 

Playing an op is always fun for the person playing it, less so for those who have to over come them. Sorry fun doesn't take balance into account. Your willing to give up little for a lot, very big of you.

 

Shadows are fine as is. They are not OP and not underpowered. Stealth is a bit op but it is in most games.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Sargrith

[Evolixe]

Playing an op is always fun for the person playing it, less so for those who have to over come them. Sorry fun doesn't take balance into account. Your willing to give up little for a lot, very big of you.

 

I'm willing to give up what makes sense to give up. That doesn't include cutting a class' core. But it could include more than Force Speed. Although I doubt that'll be necessary. I never said options were closed.

[Sargrith]

• 
  

I'm willing to give up what makes sense to give up. That doesn't include cutting a class' core. But it could include more than Force Speed. Although I doubt that'll be necessary. I never said options were closed.

 

Give up combat stealth and I am game. One escape per class please. And each class without any escape should get a way to stop those escapes. Commandos have it, Vangards, Guardians should as well.

[Evolixe]

Well, good thing you don't have to be game before something can happen then.

[Sargrith]

Well, good thing you don't have to be game before something can happen then.

 

You're right they already had it taken away for cause.

[stoopicus]

You're right they already had it taken away for cause.

 

Actually - it's not entirely clear to me why it was taken away. It could have been just for shiggles, like taking Double Strike away from sage/sorc. It's not like anyone was moaning about Sorcs being too good at melee.

 

Or Shiv from sniper.

 

etc.

[Kirpputori]

y'all good with them bumping the CD for forcespeed back up too?

anytime, anywhere #neverforget #pw

tbh, i'd like them turning sins back to what they were in 4.x. With crushing darkness and pw. Not some bs reaping strike

 

Its a combat escape. Some classes have none, for one to have two is game breaking. If they want it back take away their combat stealth.

LUL

why would combat stealth need to be removed for pw? And no, it wasn't and wouldn't be game breaking.

[Kazz_Devlin]

Give it back to sins.

 

^ bubble princess got enough

[Kazz_Devlin]

• 
  

 

Give up combat stealth and I am game. One escape per class please. And each class without any escape should get a way to stop those escapes. Commandos have it, Vangards, Guardians should as well.

 

lol really cloak is at best a 50/50 shot on escaping. First Dots usually break it and what class don't have dots...well save sins cause they took that away nevermind every other melee class has'em but i digress. 2nd If dot don't pop you out then 99% chance any AOE will!

 

Guardians need nothing hell if you know how to play it, its highest dpsing melee class. I still think they need another pass at the nerf bat IMHO DPS output neutered or survival they should be glass cannons yet they are not!

[Evolixe]

Actually - it's not entirely clear to me why it was taken away. It could have been just for shiggles, like taking Double Strike away from sage/sorc. It's not like anyone was moaning about Sorcs being too good at melee.

 

Or Shiv from sniper.

 

etc.

 

I remember a post from Bioware saying they were afraid it would make

our mobility over the top with the introduction of Phantom Stride.

 

I dare confidently say that this doesn't have to be an issue.

Not just as an Assassin, but also from other classes point of view.

 

Do we need more changes in case this is done? Absolutely.

But it can be done and it wouldn't have to include stuff as drastic and overboard as a removal of Force Cloak.

Because that is frankly a retarded suggestion.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Evolixe

[verfallen]

^ bubble princess got enough

 

please, by all means go do a Ranked yolo with a dps sorc against some decent team and say you don't need Phase Walk currently, I dare you, then come back and write this again