Mercs may not be OP

[Opaknack]

Which class would you say has a chance?

 

A duell of 2 equal skilled players will win 9/10 the merc/commando.

[Kirtastropohe]

I'm seeing 3-4 mercs in every 8v8 warzone. When it comes to objectives, they certainly seem overpowered, especially when you're a melee and you're on the defense. There's absolutely nowhere you can go, and when you do try to LOS as possible on a voidstar or whatever, you are slowed/netted to death. In general, you can't get to them and you can't get out of the way, because whatever things you clear from one are just going to be reapplied by the next and you have no more way to cleanse or whatever.

 

And if you do try to attack them, with their DCDs of sorts now, it's very hard to get them down before the rest of them take you down.

 

They're not impossible to kill, but it certainly seems like there is an overabundance of them.

[Ottoattack]

Which class would you say has a chance?

 

In absolute 1v1, with disregard to objectives and everyone has DCDs, merc will probably win against all melee classes. But clearly that never is the case.

 

I primarily play combat sentinel and I win majority of the fights against merc. If they do not have KO and safe guards, they have limited chance, even if I am missing some DCDs. Also, if it is a question of how fast can you force a 1v1 battle to last, which is key in WZs, merc are at a disadvantage.

 

TBH, best two dps classes solo atking a node are mara and sin. It is not a question if you only win or not, it is a questions of how fast can you reach the node and can you control the battle or not (even if you lose it). This is the only solo that matters. You should never be defending solo anyway.

[Schoock]

In absolute 1v1, with disregard to objectives and everyone has DCDs, merc will probably win against all melee classes. But clearly that never is the case.

 

I think it's kind of a moot point to talk about anything else. Of course you can kill any class, on any class, under the right circumstances.

[MercenaryPlayer]

Was hoping for advice on what to do. Not mad actually. It gets boring in wz against hordes of Mercs and sorcs. Last wz they just wouldn't let me move anywhere so by the end of it (30sec left of hypergate) I just stood still one my health was below 20.

 

I pretty much solved this dilemma. I don't have fun on my sentinel against classes that are hybrid of dps and heals.

 

One thing I don't get. Sorc and Merc shields last how long? All of my hits are absorbed. Is there anyway to penetrate the shield or is it 100%? My jk has 2 shields. One let's well everything through. It's pointless. The other is a 99% shield but lasts like 3 secs so worthless.

 

Is this a fair match up? Is this an instance of me just sucking ? Any sentinels out there that can take on a Merc and win? That's more what I wanted the post to be about. I want to know if I totally suck as a sentinel or is it an uphill battle. Yes I know mechanics. Don't wail on a Merc with a yellow shield. As soon as I start to hit them hard that darn thing goes up so I move to someone else and they do the same. Moving constantly lowers dps output.

 

Also what movement breaking abilities do you use for when those nasty sorcs make it so you can't reach them? I use a few but found I couldn't use the spinning move out of it.

 

Meh. I'll probably just give up. I do well when there's a good team but if I don't have a healer on the team then I'm squished.repeatedly.

 

Next time you wish to see advice how about just asking "Hey, anyone got any advice on fighting Mercs?" Instead of a vague af OP leading us to wonder wth you are talking about....

[americanaussie]

Next time you wish to see advice how about just asking "Hey, anyone got any advice on fighting Mercs?" Instead of a vague af OP leading us to wonder wth you are talking about....

 

Yeah I was having a bad day but thanks for responding with such helpful information on my problem.

[MuskyBoy]

Without their defensives Mercs are still the squishy glass cannon they always have been so in a vacuum of one v one all dcd's up to beat a merc you need to

 

1. Reflect - Hard stun them then LoS them til it wears off.

2. Energy shield -Stealth out and don't reengage the merc until the 12 secs is up

3. Kolto overload - Soft stun

4. Electro net - Save cc break for this

 

Killing a merc requires strategy and patience just trying to melt them down won't work. Remember 2 of their H2F are the result of bad dps (unless you are playing watchman) and hitting them while their defensives are up.

[verfallen]

Without their defensives Mercs are still the squishy glass cannon they always have been so in a vacuum of one v one all dcd's up to beat a merc you need to

 

1. Reflect - Hard stun them then LoS them til it wears off.

2. Energy shield -Stealth out and don't reengage the merc until the 12 secs is up

3. Kolto overload - Soft stun

4. Electro net - Save cc break for this

 

Killing a merc requires strategy and patience just trying to melt them down won't work. Remember 2 of their H2F are the result of bad dps (unless you are playing watchman) and hitting them while their defensives are up.

 

I'd actually suggest rechecking more the merc defensive cooldowns, there are many innaccuracies in fighting them here.

 

Mind you, I'm not saying they are "fine as it is" but you got a few wrong here.

 

Reflect: Unless your class is really crappy, aoe through it, or apply dots with no initial damage (so nothing like crushing darkness, or rupture, but affliction and force rend probably work. It only reflects direct single target damage, rest go through.

 

Many merc are actually stunned they are still taking damage when you do that and die right there.

 

Energy shield: Same, DoTS and AoE won't build Trauma regulators charge. Might be worth it, unless you know the merc you are fighting is running the utility already, to hit him once or twice and confirm with the buff bar he's actually building the charges.

 

If he is, then either you attempt to kill him in the next 12 seconds (some mercs actually pop it too late and die before it collapse healing them, and clicking it off can be a bother in the middle of a fight.) or you 8 second mez if you have it, or LoS the merc if you dont, or have a mobile class. Its the ideal solution if capable, since LoSing doesnt build resolve you might need not filled shortly. However a smart merc will use that downtime to use rapid scan and heal up anyway.

 

However not all mercs seem to remember they have self heal outside their ****** cooldowns nowadays. If its such a merc, then you definitely want to attempt a mez, and ideally you made sure he used his cc breaker before hand. Same as reflect, aoe through the last 4 seconds of the shield after that.

 

Kolto Overload: Not much to do there. again mez, LoS. Here LoSing is always imo the better solution, since the merc is healing up anyway. He's more likely to try and get damage on you anyway, as he is healing up regardless.

 

Key here is making sure while that cooldown is active you dont get YOUR health brought down.

 

 

 

Electro-net CC breaking: Critical if you are a sorc or something that needs to kite around pillar, or pull the 30.01-35m range trick against them. Might not be if you are a melee that has its own anti-kite tool. Sometimes I prefer breaking a stun rather than breaking the hinder on the net. Especially if the merc use it too early in the fight, as many do. When that happens cooldown that mitigate energy damage work very well, or tech-type damage or dots.

 

For the rest you want to use your interrupt as much as possible on Tracer Missile as much as possible, and if you are force/tech heavy pay attention of when the Chaff flare get out. If possible switch to melee/ranged attack for 10 sec, if not, well either burn quickly through the charges, or again, LoS/mez (eventually you'll run out of mez if always doing that tough).

 

You current average merc will go down easily enough. I've beaten aplenty with even my lightning sorc 1vs1. Deception sin is making quite a body count of them, including a won 2vs1.

 

The good ones tough, will give you one hell of a ride for your money, as among all those cooldown, they will kite you, LoS you, heal themselves with their actual healing abilities, and every now and then line up one hell of a burst against you.

[MuskyBoy]

I'd actually suggest rechecking more the merc defensive cooldowns, there are many innaccuracies in fighting them here.

 

Mind you, I'm not saying they are "fine as it is" but you got a few wrong here.

 

Reflect: Unless your class is really crappy, aoe through it, or apply dots with no initial damage (so nothing like crushing darkness, or rupture, but affliction and force rend probably work. It only reflects direct single target damage, rest go through.

 

Many merc are actually stunned they are still taking damage when you do that and die right there.

 

Energy shield: Same, DoTS and AoE won't build Trauma regulators charge. Might be worth it, unless you know the merc you are fighting is running the utility already, to hit him once or twice and confirm with the buff bar he's actually building the charges.

 

If he is, then either you attempt to kill him in the next 12 seconds (some mercs actually pop it too late and die before it collapse healing them, and clicking it off can be a bother in the middle of a fight.) or you 8 second mez if you have it, or LoS the merc if you dont, or have a mobile class. Its the ideal solution if capable, since LoSing doesnt build resolve you might need not filled shortly. However a smart merc will use that downtime to use rapid scan and heal up anyway.

 

However not all mercs seem to remember they have self heal outside their ****** cooldowns nowadays. If its such a merc, then you definitely want to attempt a mez, and ideally you made sure he used his cc breaker before hand. Same as reflect, aoe through the last 4 seconds of the shield after that.

 

Kolto Overload: Not much to do there. again mez, LoS. Here LoSing is always imo the better solution, since the merc is healing up anyway. He's more likely to try and get damage on you anyway, as he is healing up regardless.

 

Key here is making sure while that cooldown is active you dont get YOUR health brought down.

 

 

 

Electro-net CC breaking: Critical if you are a sorc or something that needs to kite around pillar, or pull the 30.01-35m range trick against them. Might not be if you are a melee that has its own anti-kite tool. Sometimes I prefer breaking a stun rather than breaking the hinder on the net. Especially if the merc use it too early in the fight, as many do. When that happens cooldown that mitigate energy damage work very well, or tech-type damage or dots.

 

For the rest you want to use your interrupt as much as possible on Tracer Missile as much as possible, and if you are force/tech heavy pay attention of when the Chaff flare get out. If possible switch to melee/ranged attack for 10 sec, if not, well either burn quickly through the charges, or again, LoS/mez (eventually you'll run out of mez if always doing that tough).

 

You current average merc will go down easily enough. I've beaten aplenty with even my lightning sorc 1vs1. Deception sin is making quite a body count of them, including a won 2vs1.

 

The good ones tough, will give you one hell of a ride for your money, as among all those cooldown, they will kite you, LoS you, heal themselves with their actual healing abilities, and every now and then line up one hell of a burst against you.

 

You realise the op is a sentinel everything I told the op to do was for a sentinel (don't fight when shields are up los. mez stealth or hard stun) and once the cd's are down they're easy kill (for most merc rerollers) . I also said in a vacuum 1 v 1 with all dcd's available.

Edited March 18, 2017 by MuskyBoy

[NogueiraA]

In fact my sentinel is pretty squishy without a healer.

 

It's a L2P issue.

You need to learn how to use your defensive cooldowns better.

It depends on the classes that are focusing you, if you have all dcd's up you can survive a good amount of time against 3 dps.

[mmmbuddah]

Well I can say my operative stands a better chance than my sent but usually ends in a stalemate since her damage output is lower than merc heal threshold but using well timed stuns and the like my operative is definitely strong enough to be annoying to a Merc. So a class with survivability and higher dps may be able to take on a Merc easily.

 

After reviewing some of my recorded PvP of last night i noticed the battles had about 2-3 sorcs with the Merc. I should have noped right out of that.

 

That is pretty much my experience as well. Going against mercs with my scoundrel, it usually just ends up lasting forever.

[mmmbuddah]

Without their defensives Mercs are still the squishy glass cannon they always have been so in a vacuum of one v one all dcd's up to beat a merc you need to

 

1. Reflect - Hard stun them then LoS them til it wears off.

2. Energy shield -Stealth out and don't reengage the merc until the 12 secs is up

3. Kolto overload - Soft stun

4. Electro net - Save cc break for this

 

Killing a merc requires strategy and patience just trying to melt them down won't work. Remember 2 of their H2F are the result of bad dps (unless you are playing watchman) and hitting them while their defensives are up.

 

Pretty much the case for all dot specs. Your dots get reflected and heal them as well. Its kind of dumb honestly. I just stopped playing my commando because it is too much of a face roll.

[verfallen]

Pretty much the case for all dot specs. Your dots get reflected and heal them as well. Its kind of dumb honestly. I just stopped playing my commando because it is too much of a face roll.

 

In my experience fighting merc, dots still go through. I'll try running some test wit a friend later to be 100% sure, but I did test aoe on Energy Shield and Responsive Sageguard, and they go through.

 

Assuming you play concentration, that means high powered sweep goes through, and cyclone slash. Twin Saber throw will also deal its damage normally.

 

I adressed the post above in a general way, since it seemed to me thread had "again" evolved in a **** no class can fight merc thread, rather than just the sent that started the thread.

 

I'm not 100% sure, but I do think Force Exhaustion is considered as a DoT, and potentially couldnt be reflected. If someone is absolutely sure from experience its not the case, feel free to correct me.

 

If you play Combat, its the spec that has the possibly bigger potential to be had by a merc's cd from the sheer APM of its burst. You can also potentially do a surprise zen power cyclone slash spam on them tough they won't expect.

 

As for Watchmen, well as I said I'm fairly sure dots aint reflected affected by merc's cooldown, but I'd need to check. As they are not "direct attacks" against you, they shouldnt be. If they are not, then you can apply overcharge saber with cyclone slash and force melt at the very least, and tbh it might be worth the 5% healing to use cauterize.

 

Your biggest challenge will be preventing the kiting or minimizing it. The best sent/marauder I fight as ranged are not those who do the most damage per move, but those that are very hard to to kite.

 

The rest, I normally kill even with lightning sorc without too much trouble.

[mmmbuddah]

In my experience fighting merc, dots still go through. I'll try running some test wit a friend later to be 100% sure, but I did test aoe on Energy Shield and Responsive Sageguard, and they go through.

 

Assuming you play concentration, that means high powered sweep goes through, and cyclone slash. Twin Saber throw will also deal its damage normally.

 

I adressed the post above in a general way, since it seemed to me thread had "again" evolved in a **** no class can fight merc thread, rather than just the sent that started the thread.

 

I'm not 100% sure, but I do think Force Exhaustion is considered as a DoT, and potentially couldnt be reflected. If someone is absolutely sure from experience its not the case, feel free to correct me.

 

If you play Combat, its the spec that has the possibly bigger potential to be had by a merc's cd from the sheer APM of its burst. You can also potentially do a surprise zen power cyclone slash spam on them tough they won't expect.

 

As for Watchmen, well as I said I'm fairly sure dots aint reflected affected by merc's cooldown, but I'd need to check. As they are not "direct attacks" against you, they shouldnt be. If they are not, then you can apply overcharge saber with cyclone slash and force melt at the very least, and tbh it might be worth the 5% healing to use cauterize.

 

Your biggest challenge will be preventing the kiting or minimizing it. The best sent/marauder I fight as ranged are not those who do the most damage per move, but those that are very hard to to kite.

 

The rest, I normally kill even with lightning sorc without too much trouble.

 

All AOE goes through, but single target abilities do not. I play dirty fighting gunslinger, and I can tell you 100%, dots get reflected, and it is annoying AF, because they get healed and you cant do anything about it, same with juggernauts, they reflect them back at you too.

[bluehufsa]

Yet another garbage thread about "mercs being too OP". LEARN to play your class, stop complaining so much! You got everything you wanted, including:

 

1. Powertechs destroyed, because "they were too powerful"

2. That ugly race "cathar" just because in KOTOR is an unbelievably ugly cathar woman no one gives a damn about.

3. That unattractive race "togruta" just because of that insipid coward nauseating ahsoka tano, again no one gives a damn about her.

4. mercs will be probably nerfed, abilities removed, class ruined.

 

I'm sick and tired of seeing every class i like to play being ruined just because you are unable to learn HOW to play sentinel. One more thing : all unassembled pieces in the world won't make you good players, if you suck at playing your class , you suck, end of story.

Edited March 19, 2017 by bluehufsa

[Quangus]

Not sure how the rules about dots in general are but for the sentinel, I too have noticed that apart from the initial direct damage of cauterize, the following dot will not be reflected. And force melt just goes straight through. There are some mercs that use reflect (intentional or not) at a very low hp, expecting me to fully unload on them and then still dying because of said dots. Force stasis/choke works fine as well.

 

But will have to test it in a safe and seperated environment to be sure.

[verfallen]

All AOE goes through, but single target abilities do not. I play dirty fighting gunslinger, and I can tell you 100%, dots get reflected, and it is annoying AF, because they get healed and you cant do anything about it, same with juggernauts, they reflect them back at you too.

 

after playing my sorc tonight I can tell you 100% affliction was still ticking for damage and no reflect/heal up happened on a merc when he popped his reflect.

 

So I'd check again for the DoT on your DF that its really your DoT being reflected. One thing that remains to be seen is if chaff flare or decoy resist the tech DoTs or if its all damage attack. Saw a bunch of fast ticking resist that I think came from Crushing Darkness on a merc a few wz later.

 

EDIT: Also, most merc are really easy to kill right now, FOTM roller and all. They have little clue of how other class can play against them and waste their actually OP tools on crap and button mashing. Just know how their defensives work from my previous post in the previous page, and use your own tool smartly (sent sure has a crapton as well right now) and you'll quickly become the thing FOTM roller have nightmares about on your server, guaranteed.

Edited March 20, 2017 by verfallen

[DerSchneider]

All AOE goes through, but single target abilities do not. I play dirty fighting gunslinger, and I can tell you 100%, dots get reflected, and it is annoying AF, because they get healed and you cant do anything about it, same with juggernauts, they reflect them back at you too.

 

Then you're probably blind because dots don't apply heal stacks to energy shield and don't heal during reflect. If you are talking about initial hit (shrap bomb for example), it's not a big deal.

And juggs don't reflect dots. They reflect wounding shots that do damage based on the amount of dots you applied.

[verfallen]

Then you're probably blind because dots don't apply heal stacks to energy shield and don't heal during reflect. If you are talking about initial hit (shrap bomb for example), it's not a big deal.

And juggs don't reflect dots. They reflect wounding shots that do damage based on the amount of dots you applied.

 

shrap bomb being an AoE, it would actually go through even if it had an initial hit, which it doesnt. Vital shot is also perfectly good to use on a reflecting merc.

 

Also could you confirm wounding shot DoTs are reflected? Since it doesnt do damage based on DoTs ammount like it did in the past, but actually have the DoT tick while it does its damage I'd have tought it bypassed the reflect as well. Still make Wounding shot/Cull a bad idea to use because the direct damage hits will heal the merc for a bigger chunk than what the dot will take but still. Would have tought the reflected part of the damage would have been less.