Suggested Class Balance Changes

[forestguard]

For tank I 100% agree. It was always a skill below level 15 in 1.0 through 3.0. Why has that changed? No one knows.

 

Why did KO change from 40% to 35%? Also, no one knows.

 

KO for pyro did not work for almost the entire 3.0 period and not even an acknowledgement from BW for month.

 

The last time I re-call BW spoke specifically about PT the called a melee class, even through PT has only one skill that is 4 meter. So you kind get the level of intelligence of the dev team. I am hoping for change, hence this thread; unless BW fires the lead dev and probably the who even is in charge of SWTOR, it is really doubtful.

 

Well, two 4m skills if you happen to be AP I do agree changes are needed, and this thread was a great way to discuss what's needed. It'd be nice if they saw this conversation, as it has great ideas.

 

As for why those changes happened.....I couldn't say. I do recall hearing about how PTs were OP early on, which could've played a hand in some of the early changes (I wasn't here at that time, so I don't know when all that was)

[Vember]

Pyro/Plasma - buff damage and either range or short range defenses

 

I don't know much about the other specs, but this needs to happen. Plasmatech is in bad shape - the damage is lackluster and the survivability is just ridiculously bad.

[Balameb]

I will usually level my characters in their tank spec so I can better learn the ins and outs as I level. Unfortunately, I didn't do that the entire time with my current VG (did most as Plasma in PvP and FPs because I didn't know bout how low the dps was, but still had a blast and usually did pretty well), but I did have to do some tanking in FPs and a short time in PvP and the class story. For me, I suffered through until 22, got Harpoon, and had to use that with a little more thought for engaging (ex, a mob has one ranged enemy and the rest melee, use harpoon on the ranged and the rest come to you). Other times, if my comp or someone pulled aggro, I'd just quickly cast Sonic Round, place myself on top of the aggro table, and hold from there.

 

Thanks for the tips. I finally decided to make a VG tank to try it. So far not as bad as it could but still not as good as it should. With the 250% exp bonus, leveling is really fast. Without doing a single side quest, only class and the 3 heroics (did those for the gear) i left ord mantel almost lvl 20. After choosing a crew skill and doing the stronhold quest i was 21. Did esseles and got several more. I just rescued the senator and i'm lvl 32. This is going fast, really fast.

When i got the companion i had doubt about using it as heals or dps. I decided to try it on DPS, thinking: as mobs are not usually hard in class story and worst case i would just need to recover from time to time (just in case i even bought medpacks, silly me )... DPS companion is so overpowered that betwen that and the tank defenses/dmg reduction i rearly get below 95% HP.

So, some points:

* It is not the torture of an average dps with low range and no gap closer

* Still not as fun as i was having with PT AP at the end of 4.X

* Any way to train Tank while playing solo? Can the jesus droid in FP be disabled? (without dying) Even champion fights were just too short in Esseles. If not posible solo, a content were a noob tank do not diminish the group too much.

* No PvP pops so far Now, should i change gear to DPS or hybrid DPS? I'm currently using full tank, so i have Zero Power stat.

 

And i will stop that there because I think i'm deviating too much from the topic. Maybe i should make e new one. So to contribute to the actual topic and skill balance:

I got the grapple after Esseles. So far i only found it usefull for few gold droids that were alone. Rest are groups of mostly ranged mobs, not very usefull there. JC is still something i'm really looking forward.

I'm not chasing mobs arround, still don't know if it is because of aggro or because Companion is too OP (+ i'm several levels over sync cap). Fights are too short (more than normal). While i take advantage of tank stance and passives, i rearly use (and never really needed) the actual active tank skills (two so far only).

 

As someone who had PT since 1.3, Jet Charge was not there and was not needed. Even now, if you can use a 30 meter skill between 10-30 meter range and can within 10 meter in one GCD, JC is a dps loss, and early in 4.0 JC should be very low on your priority list. BW also realized this, and cuz they want to force feed us how to play, they start cliping the range of all 30 meter skills so we have no choice but to use JC. We either go back to 3.0 format and remove JC or have it available at a low level.

 

So true. When i played AP PT in 4.X i rearly used the JC because i liked to start with 30m skills and move my way near the mobs while fighting. That playstyle was awesome for me. It was only a couple of days, but i really liked that and was considering to change main to a PT. It was a love at first sight that 5.0 crushed T.T

[realleaftea]

They should just switch: change Grapple to lvl 59 and Jet Charge to lvl 22. PT/VG would still be unbalanced but at least leveling would not be that much of a torture.

It's not that easy.

 

When you switch Grapple & Jet Charge, all Grapple-related utilities would have to become available after lvl59 (be legendary utilities). That's why I suggested to make Overdrive available earlier (a masterful utility).

 

(I've also edited my last reply to make it more comprehensible - check it here)

Edited February 21, 2017 by realleaftea

[forestguard]

So, some points:

* It is not the torture of an average dps with low range and no gap closer

* Still not as fun as i was having with PT AP at the end of 4.X

* Any way to train Tank while playing solo? Can the jesus droid in FP be disabled? (without dying) Even champion fights were just too short in Esseles. If not posible solo, a content were a noob tank do not diminish the group too much.

* No PvP pops so far Now, should i change gear to DPS or hybrid DPS? I'm currently using full tank, so i have Zero Power stat.

 

Glad to hear it's going well.

 

As far as training as a tank, you can run solo FPs without the droid, just right click the little combat support droid icon on your buff bar to dismiss it. Most tactical (now "story") FPs can be run by any group, which can help you learn, although you may sometimes be without a healer.

 

I've done a mix of dps gear in tank spec as well as full tank in PvP. Dps gear allows more damage, especially by yourself (yes, i'm captain obviosu ), and can tilt people, but I found tank to feel more group and objective oriented. With PvP, especially in the lower levels, I'd say experiment and see what works best in that area for you and your objectives.

[Balameb]

It's not that easy.

 

When you switch Grapple & Jet Charge, all Grapple-related utilities would have to become available after lvl59 (be legendary utilities). That's why I suggested to make Overdrive available earlier (a masterful utility).

 

(I've also edited my last reply to make it more comprehensible - check it here)

 

You are right, a switch would complicate utilities; i missed that in my frustration that the same problem was made in 4.0 and after fixing it, they decided to do it again

 

If i understand correctly, what you suggest is a much early speed boost with overdrive. It certainly would be nice and much better than now. Won't fix the unbalance with other clases, but could certainly be interesting.

 

 

Glad to hear it's going well.

 

As far as training as a tank, you can run solo FPs without the droid, just right click the little combat support droid icon on your buff bar to dismiss it. Most tactical (now "story") FPs can be run by any group, which can help you learn, although you may sometimes be without a healer.

 

I've done a mix of dps gear in tank spec as well as full tank in PvP. Dps gear allows more damage, especially by yourself (yes, i'm captain obviosu ), and can tilt people, but I found tank to feel more group and objective oriented. With PvP, especially in the lower levels, I'd say experiment and see what works best in that area for you and your objectives.

 

Time to make use of those mats of mid grades and craft some things.

Thanks again.

[realleaftea]

If i understand correctly, what you suggest is a much early speed boost with overdrive. It certainly would be nice and much better than now. Won't fix the unbalance with other clases, but could certainly be interesting.

Yes, my idea is to make Pneumatic Boots (+15% speed) available at lvl15 and to make Overdrive (+80% speed for 6s every 45s via Hydraulic Override) available at lvl30. (and to shift the damage reflect shields to higher tiers)

 

Whether it would 'fix the unbalance' depends on everyone's personal perspective. PowerTechs are actually not a melee class, but a mid-range class. And that makes it questionable whether they deserve an early leap or charge. Operatives f.e. get Exfiltrate and Holo Traverse after level 50. Sure, PTs don't have Stealth, but a 80% speed boost would be outstanding.

 

If you combine both the range advantage and powerful early speed boost, PTs would be able to kite their targets more efficiently. Something that wouldn't be possible with an early Jet Charge.

Edited February 22, 2017 by realleaftea

[Balameb]

Yes, my idea is to make Pneumatic Boots (+15% speed) available at lvl15 and to make Overdrive (+80% speed for 6s every 45s via Hydraulic Override) available at lvl30. (and to shift the damage reflect shields to higher tiers)

 

Whether it would 'fix the unbalance' depends on everyone's personal perspective. PowerTechs are actually not a melee class, but a mid-range class. And that makes it questionable whether they deserve an early leap or charge. Operatives f.e. get Exfiltrate and Holo Traverse after level 50. Sure, PTs don't have Stealth, but a 80% speed boost would be outstanding.

 

If you combine both the range advantage and powerful early speed boost, PTs would be able to kite their targets more efficiently. Something that wouldn't be possible with an early Jet Charge.

 

I would say that PT/VG should be a mid-range class. But as it is now (4m-10m) is melee.

 

Even if it comes late, I'm looking forward to get the utility speed boost in my VG. Yesterday i played a huttball match and spend 80% of the time at walking even when i wasn´t carring the ball. How come PT/VG don´t get a proper cleanse even with an utility point? I'm not even asking for short CD like some clases (sins ), something like the enrage of the Jugg would be nice to remove slows and roots.

[forestguard]

Yes, my idea is to make Pneumatic Boots (+15% speed) available at lvl15 and to make Overdrive (+80% speed for 6s every 45s via Hydraulic Override) available at lvl30. (and to shift the damage reflect shields to higher tiers)

 

Whether it would 'fix the unbalance' depends on everyone's personal perspective. PowerTechs are actually not a melee class, but a mid-range class. And that makes it questionable whether they deserve an early leap or charge. Operatives f.e. get Exfiltrate and Holo Traverse after level 50. Sure, PTs don't have Stealth, but a 80% speed boost would be outstanding.

 

If you combine both the range advantage and powerful early speed boost, PTs would be able to kite their targets more efficiently. Something that wouldn't be possible with an early Jet Charge.

 

For me, the early Jet Charge is preferrable for the tank spec. I say..make extra range a passive in the dps trees (similar to the extra 5m in the Sage's Telekinetics), change shockstrike/flaming fist and gut/retractable blade to reflect that, and remove transpose, move riot gas back to 42 (maybe with an increase to the accuracy debuff? Too much?), and put Storm at lvl 10 for the tank. Plus any defense and damage buffs as needed for each spec.

[realleaftea]

I would say that PT/VG should be a mid-range class. But as it is now (4m-10m) is melee.

Well, what should I say... that's another personal thing.

 

Let's for a second assume that every 10m attack would have a 17m range. Now, it would be the exact mathematical average of 4m and 30m. If you then look at all the Powertech abilities, you will find almost no 4m attacks. Gut, Rocket Punch and a special Rocket Punch are the only exceptions. On the other hand, Rapid Shots, Incendiary Missile and Thermal Detonator are still 30m attacks. I.e. there's just one exception on either end for variety reasons. IMO, that's basically the definition of a mid-range class!

 

But all that was considered in the context of 17m attacks. So IMO, the true question is whether you would still define a class as 'mid-range', if the range isn't the exact mathematical average.

 

My answer is 'yes!' because it's still in the mid-position of three range categories. But it might be something different for you.

 

(BTW: I wish BioWare would increase the range of all 10m single target attacks to 12m. I think it would make them more balanced towards AoEs with a 10m range. Sadly though, I know that this would be an extensive change and that BioWare would definitely screw this up. That's why I never suggested it.

Edited February 22, 2017 by realleaftea

[realleaftea]

For me, the early Jet Charge is preferrable for the tank spec. I say... make extra range a passive in the dps trees (similar to the extra 5m in the Sage's Telekinetics), change shockstrike/flaming fist and gut/retractable blade to reflect that, and remove transpose, move riot gas back to 42 (maybe with an increase to the accuracy debuff? Too much?), and put Storm at lvl 10 for the tank. Plus any defense and damage buffs as needed for each spec.

Well first of all, you can't really make a skill that is assigned to all 3 disciplines available at different levels.

 

Second, +5m range means something completely different for classes with 30m attacks and for those with 4m attacks. Furthermore, the extra range for Sorcs & Snipers was a compensation for their lack of mobility compared to Mercs (i.e. instant casts vs skills with an activation time).

 

Third, if you want to make the tank spec a melee class, not only would you have to nerf most of the rotational skills to 4m, you would have to lower the range of Electro Dart to 4m and make Sonic Missile a self-centered AoE taunt as well. Only then would a PT tank be truly comparable to the other two tank specs.

 

Edit:

Last but not least, I agree with you that Transpose should be removed (although I would love to make it an Assassin skill that can be used out of stealth). And in regard of Riot Gas, I wouldn't just make it available at a different class level, I want the devs to replace Riot Gas with a Sniper's Diversion that can be thrown at a 10m range. The important difference: it should throw enemies out of cover. IMO, it's stupid that Snipers get the most efficient tool to counter other Snipers.

Edited February 22, 2017 by realleaftea

[Balameb]

My answer is 'yes!' because it's still in the mid-position of three range categories. But it might be something different for you.

 

You consider that if the range is more than 4 or 5 m as mid range. That is fine in your view, but i do not. My main is a hatred sin, a melee class, this spec is really close in skills range similarity to 5.0 PT/VG, and we have a 30m skill.

Even Juggs and Maras have some 30m (plus some 10m) skills.

To be considered middle for me it should have several skills from 15m to 20m.

[forestguard]

Well first of all, you can't really make a skill that is assigned to all 3 disciplines available at different levels.

 

Well, that suggestion was more going off of the idea that dps VGs don't really benefit much from Storm, as it's a dps loss compared to Hold the Line+longer range skill, which the range suggestion would've also worked with. It was a suggestion that it could be a tank skill in the lvl 10 tank tree slot.

 

Second, +5m range means something completely different for classes with 30m attacks and for those with 4m attacks. Furthermore, the extra range for Sorcs & Snipers was a compensation for their lack of mobility compared to Mercs (i.e. instant casts vs skills with an activation time).

 

More an example, but it would've been a bonus to the 10m skills, and then possibly replacing Shockstrike and Gut with medium ranged abilities.

 

Third, if you want to make the tank spec a melee class, not only would you have to nerf most of the rotational skills to 4m, you would have to lower the range of Electro Dart to 4m and make Sonic Missile a self-centered AoE taunt as well. Only then would a PT tank be truly comparable to the other two tank specs.

 

Tanks should be forced into melee range at some point. Better threat generation for one, plus balancing just does not work out. Threat generation would need to be on par with other tanks, or else there would really be no practical point in playing one, at which point they'd either have to lose damage or defense so they don't crowd out the actual tanks. It becomes a balancing issue. And I'd rather not have VGs be FotM again (which then could potentially lead to heavy nerfs).

 

As far as being melee means most rotational skills, as well as the stun and aoe taunt, needing to be 4m or self-centered, respectively, that's not exactly true, as Tank Shadows only have one extra melee rotational ability compared to tank VGs with a 10m stun, and two 10(-ish)m high threat generating target centered AoE skills (albeit, not taunts). Sonic Round is unique in that it can pull a group of adds off a far off ally while also shielding them. Guardian is the only full melee tank, outside of Blade Storm and saber throw.

 

Edit:

Last but not least, I agree with you that Transpose should be removed (although I would love to make it an Assassin skill that can be used out of stealth). And in regard of Riot Gas, I wouldn't just make it available at a different class level, I want the devs to replace Riot Gas with a Sniper's Diversion that can be thrown at a 10m range. The important difference: it should throw enemies out of cover. IMO, it's stupid that Snipers get the most efficient tool to counter other Snipers.

 

Transpose would be interesting on an Assassin, since they already basically teleport through the Force. As for Riot Gas, as is it's a decent tank ability, especially when combined with Combat Focus (I think that's the right name..VG version of Explosive Fuel). A version like a Sniper's Diversion would mainly be good for PvP, but incredibly situational in PvE, as a lot of bosses don't seem to use cover. As it is, it has it's uses in both PvE and PvP, although the latter isn't as effective once a sniper makes their way out.

[Ottoattack]

If it is possible, I wish we would go to 3.0 mobility, with JC being tank only and HC 25 sec CD. PT dps and tank where ideal back then in mobility and range.

 

Realistically speaking BW devs are beyond lazy. It would be good if JC is a low level skill and PT get some range back on RS and possibly shatter slug. I suggested also 12 range being a possibility of all 10 range skills as well.

[Menaur]

@Ottoattack - sign - 5.0 destroyed all the Powertech/Vanguard-dps for me. Back to 3.0 is a very good point. Especially my beloved Pyrotech lacks over so many years in top-dps

[realleaftea]

You consider that if the range is more than 4 or 5 m as mid range. That is fine in your view, but i do not [...] To be considered middle for me it should have several skills from 15m to 20m.

Like I said, you prefer to categorize it by 'pure distance' rather than 'range category'... that's totally fine.

 

My main is a hatred sin, a melee class, this spec is really close in skills range similarity to 5.0 PT/VG, and we have a 30m skill. Even Juggs and Maras have some 30m (plus some 10m) skills.

From my point of view, Hatred isn't a pure melee spec either. Instead, it's a hybrid class that tries to utilize 10m attacks, but still relies on lightsaber fillers due to its class heritage & weapon choice.

 

More an example, but it [+5m range] would've been a bonus to the 10m skills, and then possibly replacing Shockstrike and Gut with medium ranged abilities.

Personally, I wouldn't want another range category to be added for a single class only. But I agree the devs could just remove Rocket Punch or swap Rocket Punch with Rapid Shots to make players happy - i.e. turning Rocket Punch into a low-damage 4m attack with zero cooldown & zero energy cost; and Rapid Shots into a high-damage 30m attack with 9s cooldown.

 

As far as being melee means most rotational skills, as well as the stun and aoe taunt, needing to be 4m or self-centered, respectively, that's not exactly true, as Tank Shadows only have one extra melee rotational ability compared to tank VGs with a 10m stun, and two 10(-ish)m high threat generating target centered AoE skills (albeit, not taunts).

You're right, my statement wasn't intelligible. The first part was about the concept of three range categories - i.e. what it takes to be called a 'melee class'. The second part wasn't that about comparing the number of melee skills though. It was about the concept of three role categories - i.e. what dicernable features are necessary for a class to be called a 'tank'... and whether these features ought to be strictly the same or just broadly similar.

 

Because although most players consider assassins to be a 'melee class', they actually have a 10m interrupt (see Jolt) and a 30m incapacitating effect (Whirlwind). IMO, PTs would deserve that more than assassins. Likewise, of all the assassin specs, it's the tank that still uses Cascading Debris // Depredating Volts. And due to that, it's actually the spec that is the least dependant on melee attacks.

 

And that's essentially the crux!

 

It's not that I oppose any of these suggestions, I simply don't recognize or understand the underlying class concept. I like it when players first state the concept they have in mind and then conclude why certain suggestions are necessary. Wishes don't have to be fair or balanced, concepts do. That's why statements like "all tanks ought to be melee fighters in the end" are IMO way better. They define a good basis for a discussion.

Edited February 24, 2017 by realleaftea

[realleaftea]

Let me be more specific about my last reply and state how my concept looks like and what skill changes I would prefer.

My starting point are three different types of tanks:

 

Tank specs

Powertech => heavily armored

Juggernaut => medium armor

Assassin => light armor

Yes, I know that Juggernauts use heavy armor. But for me that's more due to the laziness of the dev team.

A coat, some chest plates and a headband doesn't make a good armor and you surely don't want them to wear a heavy backpack.

 

Would I want the heavily armored class to leap around or teleport to enemies every few seconds?

Definitely not! This doesn't mean Powertechs shouldn't get a charge attack, but it ought be a rare and powerful one. And if they use a speed boost, it ought to be some sort of overdrive. A heavy mass isn't easily set in motion.

 

Juggernaut receive their protection though 'saber skill' and a pure force of will. And that should be reflected by their gap closers as well. They should be able to use a fast leap attack and they should get more frequent speed boosts, but both should be rather uncontrollable.

 

Assassins use stealth to lower the necessity for powerful leaps. Their speed boost should be the shorter, but highly controllable.

 

What does that mean in regard of skill changes?

Well, it means that PTs should have a a full set of speed boosts // gap closers rather than a single highly efficient one. And these skills should have a longer cooldown. That's why I don't really agree on an early Jet Charge or a Hydraulic Override with a 25s CD. Instead, I would prefer the following:

 

Powertech

Jet Charge

Give PTs both the Unstoppable utility and Brawn passive => 4s immunity to push & pull effects // incapacitating effects. I would even go that far and increase the cooldown of Jet Charge just to give PTs the Warmonger utility as well. That's because a Jet Charge should be a rarely used skill, but should have the most significant impact if it's used.

 

Electro Net

Yes, if I were to choose, the PTs would receive this skill. Mercenaries never use it as a gap closer or to stay in range, so most of the versatility is lost.

A powerful slow for Neural Dart might work as well though.

 

Riot Gas // Distraction

With 10m range and the 70% slow, it would be another option. But there could be an AoE stun (some sort of gravity grenade) or flash bang as well.

 

other speed boosts

Both Grapple and Hydraulic Override are fine.

 

Juggernaut

Force Leap

This skill should profit from the Battering Ram benefits - i.e. a potential 2nd leap. Not only does it negate an opposing push effect, it could also be used as an additional positioning tool. And IMO, that makes more sense for Juggernauts that are centered around lightsaber attacks.

 

other speed boosts

Mad Dash seems fair due to it's less controllable nature. Like I said, it's the main difference between Juggernauts and Assassins. Juggs shouldn't receive reliable boosts, but combat-related or reactive utilities.. Utilities like Speed Surge make more sense to me. Opponents can prevent the speed boost by avoiding the trigger condition.

 

Assassins

Force Speed

IMO, perfect. Highly controllable and not combat-related.

 

other speed boosts

Contrary to the Juggernaut, the speed boosts ought to be the most reliable ones. For a hit-&-run class wearing light armor, a ~15s window in which they can be sure to get into range, to stay in range or get out of sight is essential.

____

 

You see, all these things are a direct consequence of the initial concept. And this doesn't just applies to the tank specs, but to the remaining disciplines as well: Concept first.

 

Pyrotech

For me, this ought to be the main representation of a mid-range class. Heavily armored, but not as mobile as true melee classes. A Pyro should focus on cluster / area denial and harassment. As a result, I wouldn't have removed Flamethrower. Instead, I would have made it a non-rotational skill with 0s cooldown, just like a Sweeping Blaster or Suppressing Fire (sry Flame Sweep). And I would even go that far to state that a Plasma Probe would make more sense for this class (with a smaller area and a 10m range of course). And similar to the other PTs, I don't see a reason why a Pyro should have a Jet Charge that can be used frequently. A Pyro should seek to control the scene and not be in the midst of it.

 

Adv. Prototype

This spec should to be all about tactics and therefore be able to adapt to a new situation // environment quickly. Yes, that means both melee & 30m fights. For my taste though, it's too much centered on a single 'ultimate' skill and a specific 'rhythm' of skills. IMO, both the Shieldtech-PT (with transpose & heat blast) and Arsenal Mercs are way better representations of this concept... ('Grav Round' and 'Vortex Bolt' sounds more like 'Adv. Prototype' anyways).

 

In regard of skills & utilities, the Pressure Override utility makes perfect sense for this AP-PT concept. On contrast, Gut and Thermal Detonator make no sense. The former skill might force the 'tactical' spec into a disadvantageous position and the delayed effect of the latter makes more sense for Saboteurs // Engineers... heck, it's a bomb and Engineers love explosives! Move the Railshot restriction to this skill and it would be tricky enough build a spec around.

 

And once again, this spec doesn't really need to get into melee range. It simply isn't a good position to be unless you have to. To have several gap closers, pulls or speed boost leaves this class with plenty of possibilities.

Edited February 24, 2017 by realleaftea

[Ottoattack]

realleaftea, I respect your suggestions but they are a bit too extreme. The devs would not and should not radically re-design classes at this point. Just focus their effort on improve effectiveness and QOL.

[realleaftea]

realleaftea, I respect your suggestions but they are a bit too extreme. The devs would not and should not radically re-design classes at this point. Just focus their effort on improve effectiveness and QOL.

Like I said, it's more the question whether to have a concept and whether to use it as a guideline or not.

 

Without one, you can request anything for any class. F.e. feel free to argue why you took the AoE DR from Adv. Prototype spec but not // rather than Energy Rebounder; why Assassins shouldn't request the same overall range increase you've proposed; why Jet Charge should be trainable at level 10, but Overdrive still a legendary utility; or why Shadow Stride shouldn't be trainable at level 10 as well. Without clear boundaries, it's possible to agree to or to oppose any suggestion.

 

If you have a concept (or if you add // modify one), there's at least a direction to aim at. But sure, neither the how to nor the how much is set in stone. My concept f.e. did only state that the PTs shouldn't get an early, low CD charge // leap attack because it would contradict the 'heavy armor' aspect. But there was no rigid set of rules you're obligued to comply.

 

And if you prefer a list of 'QOL changes', look at my first reply. The concept I then provided just clarified why I made these suggestions, why other classes wouldn't be able to request the same and included other options to aim for. And it that regard, it's ensured that these changes are reversed in any future release (contrary to shifting the level of Jet Charge up or down).

Edited March 3, 2017 by realleaftea

[MoondogJake]

Please unnerf my Vanguard/Powertech tank's abilities to pre 5.0!!

[Mytrae]

What about PT ?

 

Hmm, its always a pleasure for me to see I can hit 30k with searing wave (aoe) on my PT tank dps geared and just a 28K with Energy burst autocrit/double relic proc/adrenal/bloodthirst )) Oh and ofc Energy burst is only 15gcd before using. 15 *********** GCD while I can hit 30k on a searing wave that cost 0 heat and can be refresh on the next GCD, same if you vimpar with merc and heatseeker, ez to build (just wait the CD) mediocre heat management, deal 30k+ Kappa

 

 

I just dont understand why I have to perfectly master my PT for both spec and know perfectly all fights to just compet against braindead class that dont even need 20% of the knowledge u need on PT to deal more dps than you? I have to optimize every *********** GCD.

 

So yh PT need to be hardly master to be play on high level. While on the other side, this game is seriously turning into casual game for other class.

 

Just bring back early 3.0 Pyrotech and same for AP

[NoAndThen]

AP Changes

 

DPS Changes:

 

5% increase on damage done by rail shot.

10% increase on damage done by shatter slug.

10% increase on damage done by deadly onslaught.

Remove the DoT at the end of energy burst and increase primary damage it deals by 5%.

Remove flamethrower and flamesweep and replace with a new ability called Make Them Pay which builds upto 5 stacks upon taking single direct damage and unleashes a full 360 degree AoE blast hitting all targets within 5 metres for approx 9000 base energy damage, cannot occur more than once every 20 seconds and it manually activated after 5 stacks are reached.

 

Defensive Changes:

 

Remove energy Shield and replace with new ability called Standfast. Standfast reduces all damage taken by 60% for 15 seconds, 3 min cool-down and getting attacked by single target damage reduces the cool-down by 3 seconds.

After using Grapple you are immune to stuns and knock-back effects for 3 seconds.

 

Utilities:

 

Pneumatic Boots, Torque boosters and Overdrive moved into the same utility.

Reflective armor changed- taking area damage increase the damage done by your next area damaging effect by 1%, stacks 10 times.

Bracer repellent also increase radius of Make Them Pay by 1 m and range of rail shot by 2 m.

Engulfing flames effect also applies to Make Them Pay.

Accelerated Reel combines with reel and rattle.

Liquid Cooling: thermal sensor override vents 20 heat over 5 seconds and reduces its cool-down by 15 seconds.

Efficient Suit: Activating kolto overload makes you immune to stuns for 6 seconds, heals you to 70% health and activates when health drops below 40%.

Pressure Overrides becomes its own ability and unlinked from explosive fuel on a 2 min cool-down and also includes increasing the range of rail shot to 30 for the duration.

Shield cannon: Changed so that after you fire your last shoulder cannon missile your damage taken is reduced by 15% for 6 seconds and you heal for 15 % of your total health.

Fuel Additives - should be the other way around to increase damage done for AP and Pyro spec and damage taken reduced in shield spec, additionally further increases the critical chance of explosive fuel by 5 %.

Battering ram: works well in shield spec but useless in AP and Pyro so change it to just give the Shield tech an extra charge of free flame-sweep, increase the damage of jet charge by 50% and increase defense chance by 35% for 6 seconds after using jet charge as well as the 30% speed boost for 6 seconds.

Edited March 21, 2017 by NoAndThen

[Ottoattack]

Since we have class changes coming next month, I wanted to bump this thread again, so a dev might see it.

 

In addition, currently Gyroscopic Alignment Jet utility is not working (at least for PT). Fixing this alone should help a bit in PvP.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Ottoattack

[Chemists]

With the conformation of class balance changes being confirmed in the road map I thought I would post my thoughts here. Note that this is based purely on PvE and not PvP.

 

First let me leave my suggestions that apply for all specs:

 

• Move all abilities (minus Rocket Punch, Flaming Fist and Retractable Blade) to 15m. This class just feels way to melee now and I think a lot of other players agree with that so this would bring more uniqueness and flavor back to the class.

 

• Remove the Pressure Overrides utility and either turn it into a passive or replace with a more useful utility (ie. 70% Kolto Overload). Seriously who came up with this utility, it's more trolly than it is useful.

 

• Give us Responsive Safeguards. Both the other tanks have some way to completely cheese one shot mechancs and Powertechs do not, this will help balance the tanks.

 

• Double the damage dealt by Deadly Onslaught. Currently this ability is only a slightly more efficient ability to use than Flame Sweep without the 25% damage utility, and it does less than Flame Sweep if that utility is taken.

 

 

 

 

Pyrotech: There is almost no point in playing this spec at the moment as it is currently weaker sustained DPS than Advanced Prototype. It is only slightly stronger DPS in the AoE category and that required a decent amount of ramp up time due to the DoT spread mechanic, so unless your co-DPS have abysmal AoE there really is no reason to play this. Lastly since 5.0 the change in Flamethrower being reworked and renamed to Searing Wave has really caused a lot of heat issues, it is now harder to manage heat in Pyrotech than it is in Advanced Prototype and the amount of Basic Attacks that need to be used now is absurd. Here are my suggested changes to hopefully make the spec viable to play:

 

• Reduce to heat cost on Searing Wave to 13 (the old Flamethrower was 26 heat over a 3 second channel) and have its damage increased by 50%. This will greatly help with heat issues and currently Searing Wave's damage is laughable so this will also help with AoE damage (the tank's version hits for more).

 

• Increase the critical chance of Flame Sweep by 15% and increase its critical damage bonus by 30%. Again this will help greatly with AoE.

 

Advanced Prototype: Currently I feel like this spec is in a fairly strong position, but I still feel as though it could use a slight damage buff so here is my suggested change

 

• Make Rail Shot automatically crit on targets with the Retractable Blade DoT. Perhaps a bit over the top but was all I could think of.

 

Shield Tech: I haven't really touched this spec much since 4.0, but from tanks that I've talked with they feel as though Oil Slick needs a major buff, Translocate needs to be replaced with something more useful, and, as mentioned before, they need a cheese for one shot mechanics (Responsive Safeguards)

 

• Make Oil Slick affect Force/Tech as well as Melee/Ranged attacks, or make it a flat 15% reduced damage to players/enemies that remain within the area.

 

• Remove Translocate and replace it with something more useful like a Defensive Cooldown.

 

Side note, Jet Charge is still bugged and sometimes it will not work. It will go on cooldown but it does not leap me back to the target. This happens a lot if I'm getting knocked back and trying to leap mid-air ie. Fire and Forget from Brontes.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Chemists
adding more to my post

[TalonVII]

Yeah I hope the class changes really bring back the VG/PT.

 

My Ideas:

1. Overall.

-Rail shot should be 20m ranged.

-Shatter slug should be 15m

-Get rid of the Optimus prime area attack and give back Death from Above. Give a missile barrage to the Mercs since they have arsenal.

-Give Fusion missile and Explosive dart to the PT since they are about worthless on Merc and the PT could use a few more attacks.

-Searing wave needs a 25% damage increase

-Jet charge down to level 2 where it belongs. Lvl 59 is down right hysterical.

Advanced Prototype:

-Remove retractable blade, and replace with a 15m version of the smugglers "quick shot". Or something kind of blast attack that's conical infront of the PT like the newer scatter shot on the smuggler. Give Retractable blade to the Shield tech.

-Magnetic blast and energy burst should be 20m ranged

Pyrotech:

-Immolate and scorch should have a 15 meter range

-Heated tools should also allow Searing wave to have elemental damage.

-Flaming fist's elemental damage needs a 25% increase in damage

Shield Tech:

-Get rid of Translocate and put Oilslick in it's place.

-Put Retractable blade in place of where Oilslick is currently.

 

Those are my ideas to fix the specs and PT overall(same done to VG ofcourse)

Edited June 5, 2017 by TalonVII