Why isn't Free2Play used to improved the game for subscribers?

[TheKilltech]

since my characters aren't on one of the high population servers queues can take some time off the peak hours. usually a weird phenomenon in a F2P game, but then again SWTOR isn't really one. and that's just plain stupid. the current business models just makes not much sense - considering that alternatives could profit everyone involved!

 

so first of all BW needs to change their view of what F2P players are: no, they are not freeloaders and thus not enemies of devs. instead they can be made into service provides for people that actually pay: remove waiting time in queues and enable multiplayer content become more viable for a wider audience.

 

there are a lot of games that already had immense success with that business model like WoT, LoL and many others. basically it means that F2P players shouldn't have any restrictions whatsoever to access multiplayer content - instead merely suffer reduced loot/drop/xp/credit rates for all activities in comparison to subscribers. therefore they would require to grind and thus play more - which makes queue times faster.

 

what they don't need immediate access to is story content. that includes original class story lines (except the first few planets) and later KOTFE/ET but excludes planet plot lines. now that we have level sync this is perfectly fine since there isn't a problem to do them at a later point. therefore these players would need to progress their character mostly through multiplayer content. if BW also changed that their raids and harder multiplayer content such that random groups would become more viable for it (with less failing at the final boss because specific roles are required and randoms are too often all DPS) the vast majority of subscribers could enjoy a bigger variety of the content there is. i rarely had the chance to even play OPs because of that bad design.

 

another restriction for F2P however should be that they shouldn't be able to specifically pick out individual group content. instead they should either be able to queue for e.g. all FPs or none. that restriction has the reason that subscribers can pick what they like and still have short queue times because those players that queue for all would be grouped with them. a perfect example where F2P players become service providers.

 

as for nice visuals, there are some rewards in the game that have a chance of dropping nice looking gear (supply crates from heroics, command crates, ...). but obviously good looks aren't essential for the service F2P are supposed to provide. therefore these should be an explicit subscriber benefit and probably be also integrated into the collections system to underline this aspect even more.

 

next point is that F2P does also come with problems like spam and alike. initially F2P should be severely restricted assuming they might be bots at first. but through normal playing and gaining levels these restrictions should be loosened. another good idea might be a karma system. F2P players that get enough positive ratings from (different) subscribers should be promoted to a better status (to prevent exploits the rating might ignore cases where 20 people rate one person down or up in a short amount of time). considering that if other players value such a player (for providing help, being friendly and competent or whatever) then this indicates they are important to keep as they might be a reason why some subscribers stay subscribed! besides that it would motive F2P to be on their best behavior while it would make fighting bots/trolls/griefers slightly easier.

 

finally, F2P players should be able to earn access to (some) story content through grinding and if they aren't misbehaving. being rated very positively might however speed that up a little.

 

 

so some might ask what would the point be to stay subscribed if one is free to take part in all multiplayer content and get best gear? well, story is a big selling point in a BW game for one. and obviously having to grind many times as much as a subscriber is a big motivation, too. (after all look how much forum outrage there was about too much girding). besides some big F2P titles have proven that subscriptions work very well in exactly such a model.

 

however to be fair there is also a downside: if considerably more players start play the game the servers might become more leggy and unstable requiring a hardware update on BWs side.

Edited January 28, 2017 by TheKilltech

[Theeko]

They should just remove the credit cap for f2p/pref already, it's pretty much useless now a days where everything's in the tens-hundreds of millions now. I get they want people to sub, but they need to get people to come play again first, or even implement a sub based token like WoW has, surprised they haven't done so already. Edited January 28, 2017 by Theeko

[Udoroththefinal]

People are waiting till 70 to pvp due to the changes in the reward system to pre 70 pvp dosnt pop as much even on harb

 

I feel pref players should be allowed to do ops

 

And both pref and FTP players should not be treated like second class citizens and should be allowed to post on these fourms

[MadDutchman]

And both pref and FTP players should not be treated like second class citizens and should be allowed to post on these fourms

 

This would not work at all.

 

You might be able to get away with Preferred having access, but this board would be overwhelmed with spam, trolls and credit sellers in no time at all if you let F2P in.

[OfficerDonNZ]

This would not work at all.

 

You might be able to get away with Preferred having access, but this board would be overwhelmed with spam, trolls and credit sellers in no time at all if you let F2P in.

 

If that was the case it might actually FORCE BWA to do their damn job and ban all the credit sellers from the game which is part of the reason the in game economy is up the spout.

 

Doubtful I admit but who knows?

[TheKilltech]

This would not work at all.

 

You might be able to get away with Preferred having access, but this board would be overwhelmed with spam, trolls and credit sellers in no time at all if you let F2P in.

there are a lot of F2P games and other freely accessible forums out there and they manage. but true one requires quite a little more forum moderation as spam will happen. however, filtering those game accounts that never even reached level 10 should massively reduce that. a karma system could also come very handy in this context.

 

but then again, the value and weight of feedback is somewhat reduced once subscribers become a minority. i am at least sure that BW/EA management will much easier disregard it. so maybe still limit access to some areas of the forums.

[Udoroththefinal]

This would not work at all.

 

You might be able to get away with Preferred having access, but this board would be overwhelmed with spam, trolls and credit sellers in no time at all if you let F2P in.

 

Reddit swtor sub lets anyone post regardless of status and the sub hasn't dissolved into a dumpster fire nor have many other game subs

 

Right now this fourms is only made up of subs whom can be bothered to post

 

But looking at their ingame chat filled with credit sellers and what not I guess it's too much to expect moderated forums

[TheKilltech]

They should just remove the credit cap for f2p/pref already, it's pretty much useless now a days where everything's in the tens-hundreds of millions now. I get they want people to sub, but they need to get people to come play again first, or even implement a sub based token like WoW has, surprised they haven't done so already.

the credit cap is a stupid thing to try to force people to subscribe but instead i think it causes just a lot of players that ended their subscription just to leave completely. in the case that a normal f2p system would be implemented with regular reduced credit income rates (also to prevent botting) the cap would need to go obviously.

[ShinDoRai]

pre 5.0 u could play as a pref all aspects without any limitations in any ambit.

350k limit who cares, sell stuff that only is 350k worth and save it in ur in box. after hitting the cap call a guild mate or a friend and give him the credits to save it for u untill u want something from the GTM. u need creds on a other toon, no probs at all. put something on the GTM with low interest that nobody buy, switch to ur toon and buy it. evoila ur other toon get the cash.

op pass, no problem purchase one on the GTM even if its high priced through what i wrote befor. build a pug raid, share the loot and u 100% get every run one endgame mat piece for crafters. collect some mats and trade it for new passes or even platinum cartell crap.

wanna play pvp. join a group with subs, play unlimited.

 

u see , everything they introduce have so many flaws that u could bypass. they dont think over their things they implement.

this has always been the case and will not change. seeing right now with the current cxp system

maybe they got it now after years , thats why they ditched f2p away and all the passes.

 

like i said , i would like to work for them 24/7 as a game tester to show them their flaws

Edited January 29, 2017 by ShinDoRai

[Talon_strikes]

You think EA cares about customers who don't pay to play their games? EA incentivizing F2P for the subscription model, HA! That's a good one.

[ShadesofNight]

So... Let me get this straight... Your grand idea to make things better... is to essentially block what most F2P players probably start playing the game for to start with (story), force them to do group content, and basically be even worse off overall than they currently are?

 

Have to say, over the years the SWTOR team really have done such a stellar job of embedding a strong core of hatred in their subscribers for any sort of F2P players. Truly, they have perfected the art of having subscribers who really do think themselves utterly superior to those lowly F2Ps who must be punished because how DARE they not pay.

 

-----

 

Ahem. Regarding your first point. Cutting off class story content for F2P. I started as F2P. If I'd started under the model you suggest... Well... I wouldn't have stayed long at all. I would have probably played the planet stories on each side and then been done with it. 2 characters. I wouldn't currently be subbed with about 40 characters having played for several years.

 

Bioware is known best for their single player RPG stories. So... what do you think most Bioware fans might expect when trying Swtor out? Even regular Star Wars fans, they've watched a movie, seen a great story, what would they like to see? What would impress them? Story perhaps? And... You want to basically take away the main selling point on what... the hope that they'll go 'oh but I know there MUST be an awesome story hidden behind this paywall! So of course I'll take a chance and pay, hoping it'll be something worthwhile!'

 

Not being able to pick what individual Flashpoints I wanted to do would just make me not want to do them. It would stop me from being able to try and do them in order of story, or perhaps I only want to do the ones that I've done before so I don't screw up? Instead I'd get stuck with RNG flashpoints where they'll be in no sort of order, may be ones I have no idea how to play (and so might do poorly and get kicked out), and I might get stuck with the same ones coming up when I want to try different ones. This is a ridiculous idea.

 

The visuals you mention show how little you've actually researched F2P restrictions and the current system. F2P AND preferred currently DO NOT get those heroic crates as you level, those are locked out under the no lockbox rewards restriction (aside from the alliance crates... which can't be opened unless you have done Kotfe). Command crates are also locked out already, because Pref cannot gain CXP and therefore cannot level up their Command ranks.

 

Again, you're showing your ignorance of F2P restrictions. Currently someone starting as F2P already has fairly hefty restrictions on them. Those credit spammers you see? They get through because they play through those restrictions or pay a small amount to get preferred accounts. You don't think credit sellers can get sub accounts? I'll give you a hint: What kind of accounts do you think those spam in-game mails are from where they have 1 credit attached? F2P/pref can't send credits.

 

With a karma system the credit sellers would just bump up their F2P accounts until they had the access they wanted and carry on as normal. On the other hand troll subs would have a field day with it being able to pick on anyone they came across that is F2P. Because I guarantee you that your trolls/griefers are not solely in the F2P population. Yes, almighty subs can be uncouth and vulgar too.

 

The one thing I do agree on is that opening up say PVP and Ops to Pref or F2P players may help with queue times. If you haven't already driven most people away.

[casirabit]

Sorry I disagree with your idea. Forcing a person to play group content, whether or not they want is a very wrong idea. Not everyone, even F2P players like that.

 

So no I don't think that is a good idea. You would be pushing people away instead of possibly subbing once they discover the story because group play is something that can be debatable at times, depending on the people you run across.

[Corehaven]

This would not work at all.

 

You might be able to get away with Preferred having access, but this board would be overwhelmed with spam, trolls and credit sellers in no time at all if you let F2P in.

 

But what if they just left in the mail restriction? Where you can't mail credits?

 

And then removed the cap? Does that not help to serve the save function somewhat? Where having a credit cap AND a credit mail ban seems either extremely greedy or just redundant in the case of limiting gold sellers....

[Divona]

This game F2P advertisement is false or misleading. You cant do much because of the credit limit block and also cant equip artifact quality gear while leveling and trying game out. It does not encourage new players to pay sub.

 

On top of that outside THIS forum community this game reputation is even worse than here. When asked around 90% first response is same - game ok for solo story but not as MMO anymore.

Add to that recent patch 5.0 major changes to grind and this has now scared away potential new customers as more and more are people talking about swtor may end soon - 2019 will be big question if this game will stay alive.

 

Last EA financial report also said that this game lost subscription income compared to previous periods so it is still in decline. Add also last live stream where it was clear they are desperate to bring anything as fast this thin crew can do with very limited budget.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Divona

[TheKilltech]

Sorry I disagree with your idea. Forcing a person to play group content, whether or not they want is a very wrong idea. Not everyone, even F2P players like that.

 

So no I don't think that is a good idea. You would be pushing people away instead of possibly subbing once they discover the story because group play is something that can be debatable at times, depending on the people you run across.

EA/BWA is now trying hard to force people into subscriptions but i doubt that it is effective. instead they should just give it up and focus on the F2P people that like certain aspects of a game. see, those that play solo and stay for themselves don't really help the game or the subscribers and i doubt most of them will ever sub. so focusing on them doesn't yield much. but those that like group content enough to play it should be fully enabled to do so because of the effects this has for subscribers. the core business model of games like WoT, LoL, DOTA2, ... is build around multiplayer without restricting F2Ps from anything relevant for the gameplay - and instead merely increasing grind. the same should be done for STWTOR for all group content.

 

as for story and single player content i think that this shouldn't be locked away by a paywall - as it is now for all except the original class plots. as i have mentioned before i would just require the players to grind for it in order to unlock every next chapter - whereas it is instantly available to subscribers when they finish the prior story. for what i have learned from other games is the F2P players are astonishingly tolerant to grind.

 

in the end one has to accept that the majority of F2P won't ever pay so trying to force them to do so cannot work. it doesn't mean that those players cannot be useful for the game and the community. but as it is now these players are kept nearly completely separated from subscribers which is plain stupid.

[Ottoattack]

As someone who was mostly preferred status for majority of the last 3 years biggest issue is credits. 350K is way too little. At least before you had access to everything (with passes at least). Now with 5.0 BW did a 180. No access to CG, so no way to gear. No access to Uprisings as well, even though previously as preferred status had access similar type of content (maybe there are passes for Uprisings).

 

TBH, considering quality and quantity of content, the subscription model does not make sense. By the end of this year we will have 1 daily and 1 Ops in 3 years? 1 WZ and 1 area in 3 years? I even think if BW cancels the subscription base model, and go with selling expansion access that will increase the player base, and the increased sales from CM would be more than enough. This seems to be the popular MMO model nowadays.

[Liathan]

I don’t know about WoT, but LoL and DOTA2 are multiplayer only games, so if they restricted multiplayer people wouldn't have a game to play. SWTOR is different in that there are multiple things one can do, and locking multiplayer content behind a paywall doesn't leave f2p people with nothing to do. Edited January 30, 2017 by Liathan

[Groncho]

so free players should have access to 80% of the content...nice idea

 

 

 

 

LOL

[RagnarAugustus]

This would not work at all.

 

You might be able to get away with Preferred having access, but this board would be overwhelmed with spam, trolls and credit sellers in no time at all if you let F2P in.

Exactly, I've been on other game forums where everyone was allowed to post regardless of having the game and it quickly turned into a troll fest needing massive amount of moderation. And to the OP F2P players are by definition freeloaders because they've given nothing to the game since they are playing for free. Preferred players have at least subbed or purchased something off of the Cartel market at one time.

[TheKilltech]

so free players should have access to 80% of the content...nice idea

 

LOL

yes, LOL is a very good example where free players have access to nearly 100% of the content (depending how you count the visual stuff) and the game makes huge amounts of money. DOTA2, WoT and alike show that LOL is no weird exception but rather that restricting access to multiplayer through paywalls is counterproductive to your income.

 

muliplayer thrives the most on the many-player aspect of it - literally. thus access restrictions are the ones that hit it the hardest. with lower player numbers the same content becomes much less fun - due to prolonged waiting in queues, inability to find a group at all at certain times, finding replacements when group members leave, frustration about frequent failures because when players have less chance to retry content they are less experienced with it, high chance of unbalanced teams due to mixing of noobs and pros in PvP, ...

 

it all works like a chain reaction: the decreased fun in multiplayer due to low player numbers causes further player loss which in return reinforces the aspects mentioned above.

[SteveTheCynic]

As someone who was mostly preferred status for majority of the last 3 years biggest issue is credits. 350K is way too little.

I played preferred for more than two years. I never even once touched the credit cap. I think the most credits I ever had at one time was 220K.

 

Granted, that was probably because I spent most of my credits feeding my crew skills - I reached Armstech 400 at around level 47, and 450 (I paid for RotHC) at around level 49 - but that's actually my point. I concentrated on playing the game rather than paying for frippery like fancy armour. I made do with whatever speeders I could scrounge the cash for, until I splurged some money for CCs to buy and Aratech Rose when it was on sale, just so I could get hold of a free speeder on any new character I created. (This was before the arrival of the various speeders - eight or nine - I get in the mail on all new characters now.)