Companions 5.2

[Gelious]

 

Senya and Arcann will become your allies if you let Senya leave with Arcann, and help them on Voss.

I agree with the point you are making in general, but this part is not completely true. I shot at Senya and still had a choice of helping her. Which I did cause I like her.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Gelious

[Hephalanx]

I want to see Akaavi walk away from a debased criminal. I want Vector to refuse to reunite with a psychopathic Agent.

 

If we're going to be promised Choices That Matter™, give it to me!

 

Akaavi highly approves of a dark sided smuggler and likes when you're power hungry and assertive. She doesn't like betrayal and sparing people who tried to kill you for a nice shiny quarter. Aside from Chapter XIII, there aren't many opportunities to be a debased criminal anyways.

 

Heck, when she finds out you're emperor, she'll probably want the Voidhound to bend her over the throne.

 

I do hope our chapter XV decisions play a role since you could garner more support from within the Empire and Republic. The mail suggests they put in a good word for you with their faction. Obviously the absence or presence(and gratitude) of Scorpio should play a role.

[Aeristash]

See, the attitude of the person you replied to is why dark side Knights still get the title of Master even when Satele says they won't be made a Master and why Warriors can't kill Quinn in vanilla game.

 

I actually hope companions start calling out the player character. Some may not care(Quinn doesn't have the gall to call out his wife or friend, Andronikos wouldn't care, dark side Jaesa thrives on murder), but the more ethical companions will. Heck, according to YouTube, Vette in Profit and Plunder calls out a psycho Warrior who tortured her saying she's a free woman now and that they don't own her.

 

I want Kira to be ashamed to be married to, or to be the former Padawan of a Jedi who lost their way. I want to see light side Jaesa being heartbroken at her master losing their path. I want to see Akaavi walk away from a debased criminal. I want Vector to refuse to reunite with a psychopathic Agent.

 

If we're going to be promised Choices That Matter™, give it to me!

 

^ So much this. Well with maybe the exception of Akaavi walking away from a debased smug. She loved when my smug ventured into organized crime. I see her more walking away from a noble smug who goes out their way to give the little guy that extra helping hand. As a Mandalorian who values the 'only the strongest survive' view point, I could see her finding that behavior an utter offense as well as seeing such a smug as less than a man. A ruthless smug who takes no scruff with money & power seems like it would send her booster jets into overdrive.

 

That aside, I long for the day when a heartbroken Kira/Nadia go duel of the fates against their old fallen master/lover after they realize he/she has betrayed the very republic they swore to protect. Or even Felix taking on Carth Onasi's role as he's forced to lose the woman he loves to darkness while he stands by the republic she and he once fought for. Yessss such juicy delicious drama and tragedy. gimme gimme gimme

 

Speaking of which... In SoR the consular has a quest where they peer into the future and hear Felix voice saying 'You were the best there ever was. Goodbye Jedi.' in a sad tone. At first I figured that might be him sacrificing himself in some grand finale, but in light of recent announcements I wonder if that's a hint at what's to come. Saying goodbye to a dark jedi consular he can no longer follow. If so, I can't wait.

[Aeristash]

that's stupid as hell. let's use the trooper for example. i did nothing but commit war crimes and get people killed during vanilla. guess how many people on my team cared. zero. i don't want to just straight up insult you, because the mods will be all over my *** again, but nah. there's a difference between choices that matter and screwing people out of their class's original companions to give the illusion that their choices matter.

 

what's up, emperor of the eternal throne, commander of the largest fleet ever? gotta choose between pub/imp now. can't make them fall in line like any real emperor would, because we're probably gonna shoehorn in a reason you lost your power. It makes complete sense! That's real. That's good writing and good storytelling.

 

That's not exactly right. It's not that they didn't care because they, especially Elara, typically voices objections when you make lowbrow decisions and barring that their approval would rapidly decrees because of your actions. They cared, they just couldn't do anything about it. All of the companions in Vanilla are bound to the pc by either work, religion, slavery or having no where else to turn to for money, food & shelter in the case of Mako. All of them had a leash that kept them dependent on the pc for survival. Elara and Jorgan couldn't walk away from Garza's chief spec force hound when they got ready without damaging their careers. Kira and Nadia couldn't walk away from their master due to their Jedi obligations as padawans. Akaavi straight up bargained for food & shelter. Risha was penniless and alone after her old man kicked it. Ashara begged to serve the inquisitor after she lost everything. Vette had nothing but the sw to keep her alive if the collar was taken off and nothing but death to look forward to should she try to run if it was on. ect & so forth.

 

Now it's different. Their leashes that made them dependent on the pc have been broken. They've all used their money & fame from traveling with the pc to set them up as self sustainable, so they don't NEED the pc for survival anymore. Now they're free to sip juma juice while telling a pc they don't agree with to take a hike because the pc is no longer a critical or even relevant patron for them. They feed themselves with their own hands and ideals now.

[SilentKitty]

I hope that they will keep on having companions that reacts to decisions that are made in the game. It makes replays much more fun for me

[Raphael_diSanto]

I love the choices. I think they're fantastic. I love that what you do has an effect on things. But I also temper my expectations accordingly.

 

RPG narrative design 101 here, folks: You see, there's two types of "choice" in a video game/RPG/Choose-your-own-adventure story.

 

Macro choice and micro choice.

 

Macro choice is the big stuff, the world changing stuff, the stuff that requires writers, artists, game designers, programmers, and the other hundred million people involved in making a video game write, script, code and design completely different paths based on choices in the game.

 

Let's use a JK as our example.

 

I'll have to give a hypothetical scenario here, because BioWare generally don't actually do macro choice. If a dark sided knight in the vanilla story had elected to leave the republic and become a sith, that would have necessitated an entirely separate branch of the plot. That's a macro choice.

 

Micro choice is the small stuff, the texture and background to the story. Micro choice requires recording an extra line or two, maybe adding a single encounter here and there. It doesn't change "the story". It just changes how you move through it.

 

Micro choice is the knight having to do extra stuff aboard The Oppressor because they chose to save the settlement on Taris. The story remains the same - You still defeat Angral. You just have a little different path to get there.

 

Think of it like food. Macro choice is choosing an entirely different meal. Micro choice is simply seasoning the one you have differently.

 

It probably doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that macro choice is orders of magnitude more expensive to produce than micro choice.

 

BioWare are, frankly, the masters of micro choice. They do it better than any other game company in existence. They don't really do macro choice very often, and when they do, they don't actually do it very well. It comes across as hamfisted, and shoehorned in (re: ME3 ending debacle), but their attention to detail means micro choices can resonate and color an entire story differently.

 

When people complain that BioWare's choices don't actually affect anything, it's usually because they want macro choice, and they don't care about micro choice. If what you want is macro choice in your video game, then don't play a BioWare game, because you won't get it. Frankly, you'd be better off playing something like The Witcher. Macro choice isn't what BioWare does. They're going to serve you their meal, and all you get to do is choose the seasoning. If you want the plot to dramatically change based on your choices, you're going to be disappointed. That's not what they do. It's not really what they've ever done, and I don't see that changing in the future.

 

All the way back to Neverwinter Nights 1, all the choices we have ever been given as players have been primarily micro choice choices. BioWare's stories are pretty much set in stone. The Warden always defeats the Archdemon. Shepard always defeats Saren and Sovereign. Doesn't matter whether you go dark or light, in KoTOR, your Revan always defeats Malak. The ending is always essentially the same. The only thing that changes is how you get there.

 

TOR is no different - And has never been any different. This is what BioWare do, folks. It's what they've always done, and it's what they're good at.

 

Gnome_ sounds like they're actually complaining about both things. Sounds like they don't like choices with consequence, but at the same time, they're complaining that BioWare aren't providing choices that have consequence. I'd say you can't have it both ways, buddy, but frankly, that attitude isn't rare. Players have always claimed they wanted consequence, but then they complain when those consequences negatively affect their experience.

 

I, too, shook my head and rolled my eyes when I learned that players' whining had caused the whole Master title debacle, and prevented Quinn from being thrown out of the airlock. I loved the fact that Satele slapped my DS Knight down a peg or two at the ceremony, I loved the fact that Admiral Dabrin gives you the General rank, and I was really disappointed when I got Master as my title, and not General.

 

If choices matter, let them matter. And let BioWare do what they're good at - Giving us a delicious meal that they let us season to our own taste.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Raphael_diSanto

[JLazarillo]

The biggest problem with "choices that matter" lies with the format of the game, and the potential for the Butterfly Effect to come into play. Without the ability to "revert" to an earlier save point, someone like me who wants to play the complete story can end up losing hundreds of hours of work if the game doesn't telegraph the meaning of options exceedingly well. Granted, so far, they've done pretty well in this regard. Almost every choice that was going to have a permanent or long-term effect beyond simple dialogue changes, you knew what the effect was in the same update the choice was made, as far as I can recall. Hopefully that will continue to be the case going forward.

[cool-dude]

I mean its pretty much bull that we get to be the leader of the 3rd power at the end of KOTET and then they force us to pick Pub or Imp again.

 

My Commander is so done with that BS, and the fact it doesnt seem romances will play into anything is just extra BS.

 

They made the mistake in introducing a new faction. Stories should of stayed about the empire and republic with a lead into the dark brotherhood, and the eventual rise of Darth Bane and the ensuing war that came after.

Edited March 11, 2017 by cool-dude

[Shayddow]

I don't mind the "picking" choices <rep or imp> as long as they make sense for my characters.

My DS Sorcerer, agent and warrior <they DID make some Light side choices in the vanilla story - My SW took the collar off Vette for example> will stay with the Empire.and my LS JK, Trooper and JC will stay with the Republic. However, which way my LS BH will go is totally predicated on "WHAT WILL THE MANDALORIANS DO?".

This will also effect my Smuggler, who romanced Akaavi. So their decision will be totally dependent on what happens with how Mandos are portrayed. <I still think Akaavi should have been recruitable at the same time as Torian>.

 

For my alt who is a light side Sith - I will have to wait and see how things pan out, I haven't taken them through the Valkorian story yet. My LS Agent who turned Repub spy at the end of vanilla story will probably join the republic, and my DS JK will join the rest of her brother and sister Sith in the Empire <ya, a sith pureblood Jedi Knight. She'll probably go wherever Scourge ends up...>

[Temprienne]

I know that my sorceror will be staying with the Empire. I've always played her very gray, leaning LS, and she's actually quite happy with the way things have gone. My Trooper (if I play her through KOTET) will also support the Empire because she's had enough of the Republic's BS.

 

However the difficult choice will actually be on my Light V Jedi Knight because she's honestly torn between the Republic and the Empire now. After everything that happened in KOTFE and so far in KOTET, she's not going to be blindly throwing in her lot with the Republic again.