Thanks for Malavai Quinn. <3 <3 <3 This is a love thread, haters make your own lol.

[Jagaimee]

On the subject matter of why Elera got two clips and Quinn none (at the risk of having this post deleted). It is because Bioware is heavily sexist. Lana got more attention than Theron just as Elera is getting more attention than Quinn.

 

It doesn't logically make sense for them to do it this way. Most players feel strongly about Quinn whether they want him back as a LI or to finally be able to say...I lied I don't forgive you...*cue balmoreaan battle axe * To ignore such a character would be a mistake.

 

I know people who are renewing their subscription just for Quinn and whoever said anything about him bring Koth v2 goodness forbid, Senya was enough of a v2 for me. I didn't kill Koth because I didn't want to hurt Lana and because he DID break me out of carbonite, a fact that saved him multiple times.

 

You know, a little while ago, I wouldn't have even considered that possibility. "Oh, yeah right," I'd think. "Simply because they focus more on a female character than a male one, they're automatically sexist..."

...buuuuuuut now...I honestly wouldn't put it past them. :/ "Diversity" taken way too far is irritating, grating, exceedingly obvious, and it yanks you right out of the story they're trying to build for the sake of INCLUSION!!11@211!@!!

There was a discussion a little while ago about why Kaliyo is so easily forgiven/her betrayal is glossed over, while Quinn gets the brunt of the hatred. Several times, the subject of sexism was brought up. Kaliyo's a woman, and for some reason, some guys...like women that would soon as kill them as kiss them? (*cough* Vaylin *cough* apparently she's considered "hot"!? WHAT.) I'm not a guy, so I do not see the appeal there. But I wonder if the same principal is at work here. Elara's a woman, so therefore people are expected to go bananas over her return...

I don't know. Maybe that's the way it is, maybe it isn't. But it's an interesting point to think about.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Jagaimee

[Lunafox]

On the subject matter of why Elera got two clips and Quinn none (at the risk of having this post deleted). It is because Bioware is heavily sexist. Lana got more attention than Theron just as Elera is getting more attention than Quinn.

 

It doesn't logically make sense for them to do it this way. Most players feel strongly about Quinn whether they want him back as a LI or to finally be able to say...I lied I don't forgive you...*cue balmoreaan battle axe * To ignore such a character would be a mistake.

 

I know people who are renewing their subscription just for Quinn and whoever said anything about him bring Koth v2 goodness forbid, Senya was enough of a v2 for me. I didn't kill Koth because I didn't want to hurt Lana and because he DID break me out of carbonite, a fact that saved him multiple times.

 

I agree with you about Bioware, it's gotten so obvious...as you say they gave more importance to Lana, they gave more important to stupid Elara. They don't seem to care about the female players or fans. If they do, I'd love for them to prove it with some Quinn promos. I'm still disgusted by the fact that it was Lana that saved us from the carbonite and that she lurks in our room while we sleep.

[Lunafox]

 

I can't stop thinking about Quinn's dramatic, swaggery turn-around in that cutscene (before Elara talks x_o)... I'm just imagining that now he turns around and says, "Gucci by Gucci" and I can't stop laughing. Or the Quinncident. Oh, gosh. "It's not me or you. It's... Gucci."

 

 

This is love.

 

That made my day, thanks for the chuckle! <3

[Damask_Rose]

You know, a little while ago, I wouldn't have even considered that possibility. "Oh, yeah right," I'd think. "Simply because they focus more on a female character than a male one, they're automatically sexist..."

...buuuuuuut now...I honestly wouldn't put it past them. :/ "Diversity" taken way too far is irritating, grating, exceedingly obvious, and it yanks you right out of the story they're trying to build for the sake of INCLUSION!!11@211!@!!

There was a discussion a little while ago about why Kaliyo is so easily forgiven/her betrayal is glossed over, while Quinn gets the brunt of the hatred. Several times, the subject of sexism was brought up. Kaliyo's a woman, and for some reason, some guys...like women that would soon as kill them as kiss them? (*cough* Vaylin *cough* apparently she's considered "hot"!? WHAT.) I'm not a guy, so I do not see the appeal there. But I wonder if the same principal is at work here. Elara's a woman, so therefore people are expected to go bananas over her return...

I don't know. Maybe that's the way it is, maybe it isn't. But it's an interesting point to think about.

 

Well, the Dorne fans sure are quiet. Jaesa & Kira have pretty vocal fans. Mako's make some noise too. Hell even Ashara & Nadia have a few followers asking about them! But poor Dorne gets probably the fewest mentions of any female companion. Maybe the devs feel sorry for her?

[Jagaimee]

Well, the Dorne fans sure are quiet. Jaesa & Kira have pretty vocal fans. Mako's make some noise too. Hell even Ashara & Nadia have a few followers asking about them! But poor Dorne gets probably the fewest mentions of any female companion. Maybe the devs feel sorry for her?

 

Could be... still doesn't really excuse why they didn't just add five more seconds of that first clip to include Quinn talking. :/

 

Temple seems pretty left out, too. Uh...anybody else...?

...Akaavi*? Risha? No, they have a few fans, especially those who were disappointed Akaavi didn't show up in the Mandalorian chapter (...why would she? In her conversations, if I recall correctly, she actually states that, without a clan, she's no longer a Mandalorian).

 

*Oi. Spoiler'd for length, not any actual spoilers. Akaavi's romance trigger...I need to vent. In humor/roleplaying/spoof fashion, naturally.

 

My male smuggler: *nonchalantly going about his smuggler-y business*

Akaavi: *appears from around the corner, looking VERY frustrated about something*

Smuggler: Oh, hi. What's--URK--

*Akaavi has him all but pinned against the wall, towering threateningly over him*

Smuggler: ...what did I do this time?

Akaavi: You're sending me mixed signals.

Smuggler: Wha?

Akaavi: Are you interested in me just as a crewmate, or as something more? *leans closer to him, giving him one heck of a death glare all the while*

Smuggler: ....I...n-never even flirted once with y--

Akaavi: ARE YOU INTERESTED IN ME AS A WOMAN!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Smuggler: *squeaks* No!

Akaavi: *feral animal growl*

Smuggler: I--I don't like horns! I'm not into girls with horns! I'm really not!!

Akaavi: *stomps off in a rage*

Smuggler: *slides down the wall, sweating profusely and realizing just how close to death he came...and then facepalming as he remembers he's also a zabrak*

^ Why I do not like Akaavi. I seriously thought she was going to backhand/beat up my poor smuggler if he said "no" to her. He never flirted with her and was just baaaaaaarely on friendly terms, and then...yikes.

 

 

On another note, if BioWare comes out tomorrow saying "Here's a Quinn trailer!!" and then it turns out to be Elara saying Quinn's name, or some other such nonsense... *rattles imaginary pitchfork threateningly*

Edited April 1, 2017 by Jagaimee

[Codedrago]

Has any other companion caused as much upset? Answer is no

 

Skadge and Kaliyo would like a word with you, mostly including blaster fire and betrayal

[Lammia]

He's in-character as far as I can see, but that can change depending on how the VA portrays it...

 

Yes, that's why most of my worries were shooed away.

 

Has any other companion caused as much upset? Answer is no, and the devs would gain an awful lot of insight by taking a look at their own forums.

 

I think Koth is another one with pretty loud haters base. I got some grief from people because I dare to like that guy.

 

My friend made an insta60 Malavai look-alike agent, and romances him with Koth. "Hated by many, found love in each other"

[grania]

Oh please! None of those characters have hundreds of pages written about them. You really think Skadge is on par with Quinn?

 

And btw I actually really appreciate that BW don't post in this thread. You know what happens if a dev posts in this thread? Suddenly every nut ball would show up to give their two credits even when they didn't care before.

Edited April 1, 2017 by grania

[Codedrago]

Oh please! None of those characters have hundreds of pages written about them. You really think Skadge is on par with Quinn?

 

Yes, I've seen the many threads. If anything, QUinn was one of the less hated of the most hated companion. Skadge and Kaliyo kick his arse in this regard

[grania]

Yes, I've seen the many threads. If anything, QUinn was one of the less hated of the most hated companion. Skadge and Kaliyo kick his arse in this regard

 

Well alright lol I'm not trying to argue Quinn is more hated than Skadge or whoever, just that he's caused the most -I'm trying to find the best word- turmoil?

 

Skadge and Kaliyo can't compete, you have to care what they think in the first place. Koth I admit, is up there.

[Codedrago]

Well alright lol I'm not trying to argue Quinn is more hated than Skadge or whoever, just that he's caused the most -I'm trying to find the best word- turmoil?

 

Skadge and Kaliyo can't compete, you have to care what they think in the first place. Koth I admit, is up there.

 

Quinn's turmoil comes from the fact that he's the most obvious case of someone you were supposed to be able to kill and that he's romancable. Skade and Kaliyo, however, have the advantage in the fact that even before their bad points, they're still pretty hateable or likeable depending on your alignment. Before Quinn betrays you, his romance is the only thing that makes him noteworthy to the player. So, when Kaliyo betrays you, it's much more effective because no matter what path you chose, you still had enough connection to be effected.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Codedrago

[grania]

Quinn's turmoil comes from the fact that he's the most obvious case of someone you were supposed to be able to kill and that he's romancable. Skade and Kaliyo, however, have the advantage in the fact that even before their bad points, they're still pretty hateable or likeable depending on your alignment. Before Quinn betrays you, his romance is the only thing that makes him noteworthy to the player. So, when Kaliyo betrays you, it's much more effective because no matter what path you chose, you still had enough connection to be effected.

 

Welp, I disagree with pretty much all of this. *shrug* Skadge and Kaliyo have never been likeable to me no matter what my alignment was, I've never felt any connection whatsoever to kaliyo in order to really feel the betrayal.

 

And I'd probably find Quinn noteworthy and interesting even if I wasn't attracted to him. But of course, that is what this thread is about. (<3 <3 <3) So, yeah I do remember arguing with you before about Quinn and I'd rather not do it again, thank you.

[Codedrago]

Welp, I disagree with pretty much all of this. *shrug* Skadge and Kaliyo have never been likeable to me no matter what my alignment was, I've never felt any connection whatsoever to kaliyo in order to really feel the betrayal.

 

And I'd probably find Quinn noteworthy and interesting even if I wasn't attracted to him. But of course, that is what this thread is about. (<3 <3 <3) So, yeah I do remember arguing with you before about Quinn and I'd rather not do it again, thank you.

 

The only time I remember arguing about Quinn before was when arguing that it would be completely absurd for the Sith Warrior to still be pissed about the betrayal by now, because in-story, no matter what you want, your warrior has forgiven and/or punished him already. And maybe a side-jab when I was ranting about Lord Scourge. And considering your fan-girl/boy allegiance, I doubt you were on the other side of that argument...

[Lammia]

Yes, I've seen the many threads. If anything, QUinn was one of the less hated of the most hated companion. Skadge and Kaliyo kick his arse in this regard

 

From my own observations, Kaliyo barely gets any hate, Skadge is probably as disliked as Quinn, but his haters aren't that vocal and don't attack Skage fans (maybe because he doesn't have that many).

[Nightfrogger]

Granted it took a couple of playthroughs for me to kind of like her, still would rather push Kaliyo out an airlock. Her betrayal to me is far worse then what Quinn did. Was not sure if the spoiler tags were needed here so will take them out if you guys think I they are unnecessary.

 

 

Quinn is a non force user stuck between two feuding Sith Lords of which he has promised loyalty to both. Baras also wants his resource back, or at least out of his rivals hands so they loose a huge advantage. So either way this will not end well for poor Quinn. Basically he is stuck between refusing someone who would probably have force choked him to death over the holo had he refused and betraying his newer Sith master who also probably would kill him for the betrayal. So from Quinn's perspective I think he feels he is dead either way for betraying somebody so it is the slightly safer option to betray the one who is more likely to forgive him, just to spite Baras. Also if he truly wanted you dead he could have easily done a better job then those stupid battle droids. Could have killed you in your sleep on ship or come up with something far more effective.

 

From the romanced betrayal I think he did it this way knowing you would easily kill those droids and he would fail and you would probably kill him. But he also considers that hopefully your feelings have enough love to not kill him, and maybe just maybe forgive him. I think he wants to see you safe even if it means ending your relationship to do so. It would have greatly upset you and you would have lost some of the time of his valuable insights should Baras had force choked him over the holo. This way Baras does not get the advantage of his insights while trying to kill you. Heaven forbid his love not have every second of advantage she could get her hands on when dealing with this lethal and well prepared foe.

 

 

 

Kaliyo lures you into a trap were she is okay with you getting killed and having your body parts used for pass keys for an anarchist group who she has been stealing secrets from behind your back.....And then yells at you when you kill the guy like you screwed up. Are you fricken kidding me??? This is a crap reason, this is Kaliyo only thinking about herself again and for profit.

 

[grania]

The only time I remember arguing about Quinn before was when arguing that it would be completely absurd for the Sith Warrior to still be pissed about the betrayal by now, because in-story, no matter what you want, your warrior has forgiven and/or punished him already.

 

Well now there's some common ground!

 

From my own observations, Kaliyo barely gets any hate, Skadge is probably as disliked as Quinn, but his haters aren't that vocal and don't attack Skage fans (maybe because he doesn't have that many).

 

It used to be, on the forums that if you admitted to actually forgiving Quinn, and really liking him as a romance, it was inevitable that people would make personal attacks against you. As if it must mean you condone domestic abuse or some such thing. I used to have to defend myself often from this, and had very few posters who would agree with anything I tried to say on the subject.

 

I know it seems ridiculous to even have to state such obvious things - that what's forgivable/acceptable behavior in fantasy is not the same thing as what's forgivable/acceptable in real life, and that my character's power level far exceeds my own personal level of power, and lastly that the story was extremely convoluted and sloppy - but that was how it was back then.

 

Anyway I bring these things up because I'm still very concerned about the direction of the sith warrior story, particularly from the female warrior's point of view. I hope they do her justice, finally. And understand the various sides of the Quinn.. problem. It's nice to hear that people who have read the spoilers believe they at least seem to be writing his character capably.

[Dylinrae]

I can't stop thinking about Quinn's dramatic, swaggery turn-around in that cutscene (before Elara talks x_o)... I'm just imagining that now he turns around and says, "Gucci by Gucci" and I can't stop laughing. Or the Quinncident. Oh, gosh. "It's not me or you. It's... Gucci."

 

LOL, I almost spat out my coffee when reading this. It's dangerous to drink and read this thread at the same time

 

I'm thinking about making a video where I put the LG advertisement and some Quinn scenes together.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Dylinrae

[CloudCastle]

So I feel like the conversation's practically moved on already, but I wanted to comment on some stuff still!

 

As for the Elara hate, my reasons are several and some of them are a bit silly and personal, I admit. Main reason why I despise her and not Quinn, is because she betrayed the Empire. Quinn didn't do that, he's a true patriot, and his circumstances drove him to betray the SW and I would think as a Sith, I could understand that these things happen...Sith do it all the time. Elara is a defector...and the Sith in me really really hates that.

 

The second reason is her appearance and voice, her mannerisms, personality...irritate me. She comes off snooty and priggish and I can't stand her. Quinn at least is good looking and has some charm. I just want to execute her.

 

Reason three for wanting to execute her, is because she messed up the RP between my hubby and me. Our troopers were supposed to be romancing each other, and he decided to go ahead and romance her and Jaxo and I was like to hell with that lol. We were supposed to bring our troopers up together, because they're boring and we thought we could make it fun if we played together...but nope, didn't work out. I blame Elara. Oddly enough Jaxo doesn't vex me quite as much. Go figure.

 

Bonus reason, I hate Elara because the game doesn't allow you to be mean to her...I tried to have my toon resist her stupid whims about going off the ship to save her brother or whatever nonsense, but it over-rided my wishes and she went anyway, and then I couldn't even court martial the bish. Yeah, I hate her.

 

Whew! That's a lot of reasons! I can't consider Elara a traitor because she doesn't actually betray anyone in the story...you or any character you know. The Empire is a militaristic regime, run by one group who actively oppresses any group that is not them. I consider her a truly courageous for being able to see through the brainwashing and then being brave enough to surrender to the "enemy" in order to get out and live a life that adheres to her values. (I don't hate Koth either, btw.) I say this as someone who loves the Empire-side stories and enjoys the heck out of playing a powerful Sith, so don't think that I "hate" the Empire or anything. It's just...let's face it, it's probably not a great place to live if you are not a Sith.

 

As a player, I don't have any loyalty to one faction or the other, because whenever I play a character, I am that character for that moment. My agent would probably dislike Elara, but my Pureblood trooper, who's spent a lifetime trying to prove to people that he can look like the enemy and still be a loyal Republic citizen, relates to her on every level. As a player, I loved that their stories meshed so well. It made my playthrough feel more real and immersive. Same reason why I loved the female agent and Vector's romance - their stories go together.

 

 

My remark could be construed as hate, but it really wasn't. I like her a lot. One of my fav trooper comps together with Forex.

 

I'm just annoyed we get only her in teasers, and he's kind of interrupted before he even started a sentence.

 

Yeah, typical BW. <sigh> It's like the Lana thing. I don't hate her character per se, but the way the devs have pushed her on us has made me resent her presence. I pretty only enjoy having her around on my agent who is romancing her.

 

Whoa...when did that happen with Ashara? I don't remember anything like that, even though my dark inquisitor forced her to make dark-side decisions (well, upon getting her, that is).

 

As for Elara...maybe she lightens up a tad if you do her romance? My trooper didn't, so all he got was the stuck-up, prim, "rules are my life," person that Elara seemed to be. There was never any depth to her character. Perhaps there is if you romance her?

 

Ashara's "fall to the dark side" scene occurs while you are still on Taris, if you trick her into killing the assassins even after you have subdued them.

 

Elara does lighten up if you romance her. She starts to do funny things like give the rest of the crew reams of boring paperwork that she insists must be filled out off-ship so that the two of you can get time together. She's also capable of joking and flirting right back.

 

It used to be, on the forums that if you admitted to actually forgiving Quinn, and really liking him as a romance, it was inevitable that people would make personal attacks against you. As if it must mean you condone domestic abuse or some such thing. I used to have to defend myself often from this, and had very few posters who would agree with anything I tried to say on the subject.

 

I know it seems ridiculous to even have to state such obvious things - that what's forgivable/acceptable behavior in fantasy is not the same thing as what's forgivable/acceptable in real life, and that my character's power level far exceeds my own personal level of power, and lastly that the story was extremely convoluted and sloppy - but that was how it was back then.

 

I guess I had forgotten about this? Maybe I just blocked those conversations out and stayed away. I do recall anyone liking Corso being given a hard time though for similar reasons.

Edited April 1, 2017 by CloudCastle

[grania]

I do recall anyone liking Corso being given a hard time though for similar reasons.

 

That rings a bell, yes

 

I hope my dislike (or at least non-like) of certain companions has never been construed as a personal attack against players who do like said companions. I hope I've been careful with my words in the past, I never know how something I say might be interpreted.

[Codedrago]

So from Quinn's perspective I think he feels he is dead either way for betraying somebody so it is the slightly safer option to betray the one who is more likely to forgive him, just to spite Baras. Also if he truly wanted you dead he could have easily done a better job then those stupid battle droids. Could have killed you in your sleep on ship or come up with something far more effective.

 

From the romanced betrayal I think he did it this way knowing you would easily kill those droids and he would fail and you would probably kill him. But he also considers that hopefully your feelings have enough love to not kill him, and maybe just maybe forgive him. I think he wants to see you safe even if it means ending your relationship to do so. It would have greatly upset you and you would have lost some of the time of his valuable insights should Baras had force choked him over the holo. This way Baras does not get the advantage of his insights while trying to kill you.

 

This seems like quite the stretch, if he wanted to spite Baras (Despite the fact that Quinn makes it clear that he respects Baras, no matter which side he's on), there were much better ways to go about it. And you're assigning to loyalty what could easily be applied to incompetence, yes you can say that Quinn was expecting to fail the whole time, but that's a pretty big stretch. An equal stretch could be that he merely wished to stroke his ego through kicking your *** with his own creations. Though the more likely sentiment is simply that for his character, if he's going to betray you, he'll do it to your face instead of behind your back.

 

Edit: Actually, I think he even says in said encounter that he at least wanted to give you a death worthy of you, because despite his allegiances, he does respect you. Though my memory is a bit foggy

 

And no matter if you like Quinn or not, he was NOT going in expecting to be forgiven. He was not trying to avoid killing you, he was fully intent on putting whatever feelings he had aside and completing Baras's mission. Because if he had any ideas to keep you safe or screw Baras over, there are plenty of other ways he could do so.

[Codedrago]

It used to be, on the forums that if you admitted to actually forgiving Quinn, and really liking him as a romance, it was inevitable that people would make personal attacks against you. As if it must mean you condone domestic abuse or some such thing. I used to have to defend myself often from this, and had very few posters who would agree with anything I tried to say on the subject.

 

I like Quinn, and do agree with forgiving him. Though I do find myself shaking my head a lot when looking over all the posts that seem to sugar coat and romance his actions WAAAAY too much, like some over-compensation to jsutify forgiving him despite how unnecessary. Which is even weirder to me, because these come from his fan-girls, when it really on devalues him as a character.

[Sarova]

I like Quinn, and do agree with forgiving him. Though I do find myself shaking my head a lot when looking over all the posts that seem to sugar coat and romance his actions WAAAAY too much, like some over-compensation to jsutify forgiving him despite how unnecessary. Which is even weirder to me, because these come from his fan-girls, when it really on devalues him as a character.

After reading your posts, I think you might be in the wrong thread.

 

You really think that this reason doesn't explain his absence? I see it as a great sacrifice he made.

 

Is it 11th of Quinnpril yet?

Nice

[Codedrago]

After reading your posts, I think you might be in the wrong thread.

 

Because my love isn't blind, it's intent to murder? Or can you just not read?

[Lammia]

And no matter if you like Quinn or not, he was NOT going in expecting to be forgiven. He was not trying to avoid killing you, he was fully intent on putting whatever feelings he had aside and completing Baras's mission. Because if he had any ideas to keep you safe or screw Baras over, there are plenty of other ways he could do so.

 

I must admit I agree with it with one difference: I see Quinn as loyal to the Empire, not Baras personally. He has to choose which Sith is better for the Empire's future, and sorry, warrior, but you're nobody fighting his/her own master. Baras is a Dark Council member.

 

He put his personal feelings aside for the good of the Empire. But I also think he did intend to finish the job, and if the droids were so crappy, it's because he screwed up (perhaps subconsciously sabotaged his own work because of his feelings), not because he clumsily tried not to kill you.

 

That said, yes, it would be much easier and safer to try to do that in your sleep. But BW would have to make seperate ctuscenes for romanced and non-romanced warrior, and that's too much to ask.

[grania]

I must admit I agree with it with one difference: I see Quinn as loyal to the Empire, not Baras personally. He has to choose which Sith is better for the Empire's future, and sorry, warrior, but you're nobody fighting his/her own master. Baras is a Dark Council member.

 

Well you're not exactly no one, you're the emperor's wrath, and the title alone should set off alarms in his head if nothing else

 

That said, yes, it would be much easier and safer to try to do that in your sleep. But BW would have to make seperate ctuscenes for romanced and non-romanced warrior, and that's too much to ask.

 

Holy smokes what I wouldn't give to see a scene where Quinn tries to kill you in your sleep! I mean, not now, I want him to be loyal now..

 

I keep thinking what he could have done to make his attempt with the droids more successful and I think all he had to do was space more of them out around the room, that always annoys the heck out me - scattered mobs!