Ben, you wanted suggestions on fixing this mess...

[JumboAg]

Give us back the old operations loot drop model for those of us in raiding guilds that want to raid every day and get something of value from it. You can keep GC, keep the unassembled parts for PVP, command tokens, RNG for CXP crates, etc... but please please bring back 2 items / boss for 8 man and 4 for 16 and make it a static unassembled gear piece per boss. You can even keep the requirement to spend tokens along with the unassembled item but at least give us a drop per boss.

 

SWTOR is an MMO, some of us still want to play it as one.

[DanNV]

My suggestions for fixing things are at http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=911737 . They missed most of it, 1/5 of an Op doesn't really count. They refuse to admit Galactic Command and RNG gearing is a total disaster for end game players. They claim to listen, but only listen to tiny parts, tiny bits and pieces.

 

My sub is up on the 7th. At this point I see no reason to change that.

[IstariZen]

My suggestions for fixing things are at http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=911737 . They missed most of it, 1/5 of an Op doesn't really count. They refuse to admit Galactic Command and RNG gearing is a total disaster for end game players. They claim to listen, but only listen to tiny parts, tiny bits and pieces.

 

My sub is up on the 7th. At this point I see no reason to change that.

 

Its 5 bosses. They just want to get them released as soon as possible so that we can start diving into it right away. Those bosses take a while to design especially if they are going to be awesome. This is a good thing, especially if they are very tough.

[JumboAg]

The problem with your theory is that even if they are actually decent difficulty wise, by doing them 1 month at a time, the whiners will cry until they nerf every single one of them so by the time we get to do the entire operation in one sitting it'll be Eternity Vault.

[AscendingSky]

My suggestions for fixing things are at http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=911737 . They missed most of it, 1/5 of an Op doesn't really count. They refuse to admit Galactic Command and RNG gearing is a total disaster for end game players. They claim to listen, but only listen to tiny parts, tiny bits and pieces.

 

My sub is up on the 7th. At this point I see no reason to change that.

 

They also don't learn from their mistakes. They admitted breaking up the KotFE chapters month by month was a bad idea that caused people to unsubscribe and just come back later to 'binge' all the chapters at once. So now they're going to do it with an operation! Because that makes sense!

 

That last sentence was sarcastic, in case the white knights couldn't tell.

[AscendingSky]

The problem with your theory is that even if they are actually decent difficulty wise, by doing them 1 month at a time, the whiners will cry until they nerf every single one of them so by the time we get to do the entire operation in one sitting it'll be Eternity Vault.

 

One month at a time? Ha! If the first boss drops in April, I think we'll be lucky to see the second boss drop by August. Designing operations takes time, and it's pretty clear from this one-boss-at-a-time release method that they hadn't even started designing these until the backlash from 5.0 hit.

[btmart]

I would have to agree. Guaranteed drops for each boss would completely fix this for raiders.

[Psychopyro]

Its 5 bosses. They just want to get them released as soon as possible so that we can start diving into it right away. Those bosses take a while to design especially if they are going to be awesome. This is a good thing, especially if they are very tough.

It's not really why they are releasing them one at a time... It's a psychological game.

 

If they told all the OPS players that it would be at least 8 months for a new OP, what would they do... They are gonna quit.

 

Now if you tell them, hey we are working on one, but we are gonna release a boss every couple months till the whole thing is done... Sure some will still quit, but it's enough to keep a portion of them around subbing. It's the model for KOTFE, just with OPS instead of stories...

 

Stay subbed to get access to each new OP boss, or resub once the whole thing is finished.... There's no focus group. They talked to the bean counters and they determined that this set up worked well before, why not try it again.

[AscendingSky]

It's not really why they are releasing them one at a time... It's a psychological game.

 

If they told all the OPS players that it would be at least 8 months for a new OP, what would they do... They are gonna quit.

 

Now if you tell them, hey we are working on one, but we are gonna release a boss every couple months till the whole thing is done... Sure some will still quit, but it's enough to keep a portion of them around subbing. It's the model for KOTFE, just with OPS instead of stories...

 

Stay subbed to get access to each new OP boss, or resub once the whole thing is finished.... There's no focus group. They talked to the bean counters and they determined that this set up worked well before, why not try it again.

 

Except it didn't work before. That's why they had to keep coming up with new sub awards during the month-by-month chapter dripfeed. That's why they admitted it didn't work on one of the livestreams. That's why KotET had all the chapters come out at once.

[Psychopyro]

Except it didn't work before. That's why they had to keep coming up with new sub awards during the month-by-month chapter dripfeed. That's why they admitted it didn't work on one of the livestreams. That's why KotET had all the chapters come out at once.

It did at first... Until people realized the time frame was BS... I suspect it will be the same thing here... It'll work, only to slow the bleeding for a couple months... I think that's all, they are buying time at this point.

[DanNV]

They also don't learn from their mistakes. They admitted breaking up the KotFE chapters month by month was a bad idea that caused people to unsubscribe and just come back later to 'binge' all the chapters at once. So now they're going to do it with an operation! Because that makes sense!

 

That last sentence was sarcastic, in case the white knights couldn't tell.

 

Of course they are because if you don't grind for the next year, you won't be able to do the new boss on anything but SM when you come back. That's why they won't ever really fix GC, it's the center of their entire plan to keep people subbed. It's failing and they can't admit it, so they're just watching the thing sink and wringing their hands.

[gabigool]

The problem with your theory is that even if they are actually decent difficulty wise, by doing them 1 month at a time, the whiners will cry until they nerf every single one of them so by the time we get to do the entire operation in one sitting it'll be Eternity Vault.

 

At this cadence, I see no reason they can't add a 4th difficulty level at the bottom. Put it into 16M groupfinder and rip out all mechanics. No lockout.

 

i.e. LFR.

[Ylliarus]

One month at a time? Ha! If the first boss drops in April, I think we'll be lucky to see the second boss drop by August. Designing operations takes time, and it's pretty clear from this one-boss-at-a-time release method that they hadn't even started designing these until the backlash from 5.0 hit.

 

I wouldn't say the started designing it just now. As stated in the livestream they wanted to wait with the Operation until December this year but... that would have caused for a mass exodus from SWTOR I think so it is logical they decided to do it now or begin with it.

I believe the reason why they are spreading out the operation like this is the stretched resources at Bioware. While I am not a raider much myself I must admit that 1 operation smeared out over the period of a year? It sounds a bit funny even, although it's actually sad.

[DanNV]

I wouldn't say the started designing it just now. As stated in the livestream they wanted to wait with the Operation until December this year but... that would have caused for a mass exodus from SWTOR I think so it is logical they decided to do it now or begin with it.

I believe the reason why they are spreading out the operation like this is the stretched resources at Bioware. While I am not a raider much myself I must admit that 1 operation smeared out over the period of a year? It sounds a bit funny even, although it's actually sad.

 

It's just a way to try to keep people subbed, just like the RNG gear grind. Nothing about it is worth while. If they survive, they'll eventually fix the gearing and then we can resub and play. If they don't fix it, they'll eventually fail and no one will care. The sad thing is, the longer they wait the less of us that will come back.

[Wayshuba]

Its 5 bosses. They just want to get them released as soon as possible so that we can start diving into it right away. Those bosses take a while to design especially if they are going to be awesome. This is a good thing, especially if they are very tough.

 

Your being sarcastic, right? They have a competitor that has dropped 4 raids a year for the last two years and has 9 new raids dropping this June. You think 1 Op boss every 60 days is even interesting to any serious raider when a competitor is dropping raids faster than raiding guilds can clear them before the next raids drop?

 

Flashbacks of all the articles during the TORtanic years are suddenly seeming like we may be seeing them again once EA reports on Q1 earnings. I have a feeling, like usual, their is not going to be any good comments about SWTOR's business at that time.

[gabigool]

It's just a way to try to keep people subbed, just like the RNG gear grind. Nothing about it is worth while. If they survive, they'll eventually fix the gearing and then we can resub and play. If they don't fix it, they'll eventually fail and no one will care. The sad thing is, the longer they wait the less of us that will come back.

 

The inclusion of NM makes it worth it to me provided the gear system is overhauled massively.

 

IMO that is the only real issue left. Once the content starts trickling out, as long as I can bring my alts through the higher difficulties I'll be fine. As it is, I do not see that as being possible.

 

I'm with you about 99% of the time bro. Honestly. I just feel this is about the best we could have realistically expected and as such I'll take it. I can't take the gear system though. I literally have a server with characters I haven't played in months - I mean, I haven't even logged into the server once. That's not good. But if they can get the gear issue fixed I think it's worth sticking around for.

[dr_mike]

We've been asking for better communication and feedback for years.

 

What makes folks think this time is different from all the other times?

 

A friendly reminder that I attempted arbitration 3 times with these folks. I'd tell you how well that worked out but I;ve been told I;m not allowed to discuss it here. Think about that for just a second.

Edited January 27, 2017 by dr_mike

[Wayshuba]

Now if you tell them, hey we are working on one, but we are gonna release a boss every couple months till the whole thing is done... Sure some will still quit, but it's enough to keep a portion of them around subbing.

 

No it isn't. Most of them are seriously laughing at this. It is painfully obvious at this point that EA has no intention of putting much serious investment in this title. The competition is absolutely making SWTOR look like an utter joke with the content they are putting out in a year. Heck, ten year old games like LOTRO are outpacing what BW is putting out in a year.

 

It's done. Put a fork in it. They are talking about having One Op and One daily area by the end of the year. It is literally a complete joke. That is what they want you to pay $180/year for. Too funny.

[DanNV]

The inclusion of NM makes it worth it to me provided the gear system is overhauled massively.

 

IMO that is the only real issue left. Once the content starts trickling out, as long as I can bring my alts through the higher difficulties I'll be fine. As it is, I do not see that as being possible.

 

I'm with you about 99% of the time bro. Honestly. I just feel this is about the best we could have realistically expected and as such I'll take it. I can't take the gear system though. I literally have a server with characters I haven't played in months - I mean, I haven't even logged into the server once. That's not good. But if they can get the gear issue fixed I think it's worth sticking around for.

 

If they had fixed the gearing I'd have given them another 30 or 60 days. But they said they aren't fixing it. They'll consider tweaking it. That isn't worth my money.

 

I have 42 characters spread over three servers. Other than checking populations I've only logged into one character on a regular basis since 5.0 dropped. I agree, that isn't good. It isn't fun.

[Wayshuba]

If they had fixed the gearing I'd have given them another 30 or 60 days. But they said they aren't fixing it. They'll consider tweaking it. That isn't worth my money.

 

I must have misunderstood. I still in four livestreams, have yet to ever see them acknowledge the real crux of the issue - that the RNG on Command Crates is complete garbage.

 

Sure, the have acknowledged that you may get unlucky with the RNG (which seems to be 99% of the player base). Rather than fix it, they give you a convoluted mess of consolation prize in 5.1.

 

Now, they acknowledge that the CxP levels may be taking so long. Well, now that they have added additional grind and RNG with 5.1, we can say we will have an event where you will get double CxP and that they are "monitoring" the situation (everytime I hear them say this I think of those LifeLock commercials with the monitors at the beginning - you know, the ones they shows are completely useless to you).

 

They acknowledged in the stream that OPs CxP was still off and it will take 1-2 months to fix. Funny how when 3 DAYS after the expansion launched they could quickly revise the gold mobs down to 1 CxP, but when it is something that is in the players benefit, suddenly they are full of molasses. This right here shows what utter contempt they have for their customers.

 

I am still betting that with 5.2, the real thing is to eventually drop Command Crates on the CM. I still believe this is the intent all along.

[jozinkopucik]

They also don't learn from their mistakes. They admitted breaking up the KotFE chapters month by month was a bad idea that caused people to unsubscribe and just come back later to 'binge' all the chapters at once. So now they're going to do it with an operation! Because that makes sense!

 

THIS, exactly THIS!!