This Game Is No Longer A MMO

[leehambly]

The obfuscation begins in this thread with the first post.

 

OP insists that only fresh OPs = an MMO. That is simple obfuscation right there.. what the OP really means is.... he wants new OPs. Why not just say it and stop with the hyperbole right up front?

 

This entire thread will become a flame fest for no other reason then the OP began with a distorted and pejorative premise for his wishes for more group content. We are getting more group content with each release in 5.0, but clearly that is not the type of group content OP wants. So.. that brings us back to him being unclear and deceptive about what he believes = the universal definition of the term "MMO".

 

+ + +

[realleaftea]

If the type or rate of content being released doesn't suit your tastes, again that's perfectly valid and a legitimate reason to say the game isn't for you, but calling it a single player game when it has this many multiplayer components still strikes me as a stretch.

Quite selective. The sole existence of an aspect isn't a good criteria to categorize it. It's way more accurate to look how it's perceived, how relevant this aspect is, how often it's used and how things have changed over the course of time. That's why the title of the thread is "This Game Is No Longer A MMO".

 

The same way, it would be wrong to state that PCs with Windows as an operation system are gaming console, just because hundreds of games are available for it. The majority of users might still use it for other reasons.

 

As long as they keep the SP story content coming I'm happy ^_^ this game has always been a SP BioWare game with multiplayer elements and that's why I play it. If it was your typical MMO I wouldn't have touched it with a 10 foot pole.

Also not quite accurate. The game was released with eight unique class stories, that's true. However, the game was meant to push WoW off the throne, was released early with other parts still under development. It's a nice trick to call it 'as intended' now. If you look at the three years that followed the release, there's no clear focus on single player content whatsoever (check the patch notes if you like).

 

With KotFE, things have changed a bit. But in my opinion, it's just history repeating itself. My guess is that BioWare hired a new dev team and these guys started with the most challenging and urgent part of course... the story.

 

As for Uprisings, they are a complete joke. Cut and paste assets and maps to give the illusion of some group content being added. That they could do five of them in less than 60 days should show how little effort is needed to produce them.

It's a complain about the wrong thing. IMO, uprisings are a step in the right direction and BioWare is finally pushing out new content regularly. Yes, they might be dilettantish, but that's what I expect of a new, still unexperienced team, toying around the tools they've been given. But once they get used to it, they might be able to go a bit further, adding more challenging aspects and maybe even release new operations some day.

 

• They have an objective to defend survivors from mobs.
  
• They have unique systems rewards (augments) that help enhance your character and their skills more (and they are the only way to get them).
  
• They have random events and bosses which changes the dynamic of each and every scenario.
  
• They can be played solo, duo or as a group.
  
• They have FOUR levels of difficulty (from Novice up to Nightmare).
  

The SWTOR alternative to augments are set bonuses. Most of the end-game content in SWTOR is already available in several difficulty settings and sometimes with optional in-game adjustment s(collecting those rocket launchers, kolto packs, Star Fortress upgrades). More difficulty levels are to come.

 

It also seems that you expect too much of a single type of content.

 

IMO, the uprisings weren't meant to be a replacement for flashpoints or operations, just like GSF wasn't meant as a replacement for warzones. Uprisings have rather been implemented to close the gap between heroics and flashpoints. In other words, BioWare added a whole new category:

 

 

• Chapters: solo content
  
• Heroics: trivial short-term activity; optimized for 2 players (still soloable and supporting up to 4 players)
  
• Uprisings: Insta-action co-op (3~4 random players)
  
• Flashpoints: more tactical, organized and story-driven 4-man co-op (solo mode available)
  
• Raids: a professional 4~8man content
  
• Operations: challenging content for 8 players
  
• Conquests: massive multiplayer challenges for about 16 players
  

 

I added two more categories that I think are still missing. Here's why:

 

My guess is that BioWare won't release new operations in the near future. I rather expect them to come up with a whole new category once again. This one however will be placed somewhere in between flashpoints & operations and I guess there won't have a weekly limit for these. It's what I call "raids" or "professional 4~8 man content". Good canditates for that would have been Star Fortresses, but BioWare botched this opportunity (I guess they were forced to release the KotFE chapters in a monthly cycle because they couldn't finish it in time).

 

The other category - the challenges for more than 8 players - might be unrealistic to ever see play (at least in the near future), but I feel that neither the chaotic 16-man operations, nor the world bosses, nor the conquests are anywhere close to be sufficiently satisfying. 16-man operations are basically just sort of 'cheat' to get more loot to roll for. No operation is truly designed to support that many player. Fighting a lone world boss is just plain lame and the current conquests don't even deserve the name. So IF we will ever see something like this, I expect it to be more like Battlefield conquests with multiple ongoing fights // challenges at the same time in order to split players into smaller 4x4 groups (easier to handle).

 

Sure, I might be just deluded but at least it explains why the Uprisings are the target of so much hate. Players falsely assume them to be "the cool new end game content" as if there was ever only one type. Sure, there haven't been new operations in years, but it's dumb to jump on every bread crumb BioWare puts online.

 

Like I said before, I think BioWare must first regain the knowlegde of how to develop these things before they can make the next step. And it's more than likely, that they won't come up with new operations next (or they will be utterly broken). Instead, there will be higher difficulty levels for Uprisings, probably followed by a new game mode and/or adjustments to the existing OPs. But at least it's not past all hope.... and they surely don't focus solely on single player content now.

Edited January 26, 2017 by realleaftea

[Wayshuba]

WZ, OPs, the game has end game. It just hasn't had enough new end game to suit you.

 

Then the game should not have a sub. It should be B2P like TSW. By the product and play. Otherwise, what the heck are you paying $180/year for.

 

So, too many people defending BW are giving them a pass for what any other MMO would provide for regular on going fees.

[Radzkie]

Okay, for two to five year old content (except for the Uprisings, which I will get to in a minute), it is a PATHETIC amount of content for an MMO that is five years old.

 

Let's look at an MMO that is only three years old to this one being five years old. It has:

• 18 Raids (12 8 man and 6 24 man)
  
• 47 Dungeons
  
• 4 World Bosses
  
• 11 Mini-games
  
• 6 PvP modes (from 1v1 duels, to 72 player battles)
  

 

As for Uprisings, they are a complete joke. Cut and paste assets and maps to give the illusion of some group content being added. That they could do five of them in less than 60 days should show how little effort is needed to produce them. Funcom, a much, much smaller company did a lot more in their best comparable content known as scenarios, which cam e with issue 9. While those maps and mobs were reused assets from the game, they at least put some thought into them.

 

They have an objective to defend survivors from mobs.

They have unique systems rewards (augments) that help enhance your character and their skills more (and they are the only way to get them).

They have random events and bosses which changes the dynamic of each and every scenario.

They can be played solo, duo or as a group.

They have FOUR levels of difficulty (from Novice up to Nightmare).

 

This is what some small content, even reusing assets, looks like when more than five minutes of thought is put into it.

 

If your a sub paying $180/year, you should expect something NEW for your money. Not two resets on gear to play the same content you have done a thousand times over.

 

This is basically what I was going to post.

 

I understand that BW doesnt have the funding to produce the amount of content that FF14 does. However some people need to realize what we have on SWTOR is not "a lot", at least not compared to its competitors. In fact its pretty **** compared to them. By the way, FF14s basic sub fee is cheaper than SWTORs. lol

Edited January 26, 2017 by Radzkie

[Wayshuba]

The SWTOR alternative to augments are set bonuses. Most of the end-game content in SWTOR is already available in several difficulty settings and sometimes with optional in-game adjustment s(collecting those rocket launchers, kolto packs, Star Fortress upgrades). More difficulty levels are to come.

 

It also seems that you expect too much of a single type of content.

 

IMO, the uprisings weren't meant to be a replacement for flashpoints or operations, just like GSF wasn't meant to replace warzones. Uprisings have been implemented to close the gap between Heroics and flashpoints. In other words, BioWare added a whole new category:

 

Expect too much? If I expect any less it will be NOTHING. I am only comparing it to what other company;s provide for content updates to their player base and SWTOR is woefully lacking versus most popular MMOs - woefully lacking. Expecting them to at least deliver, for $180/year sub fee, what other MMOs have done is NOT expecting too much - it is expecting them to at least compete in the market.

 

Do you have any idea how much content FFXIV players, who pay the same $180/year, have got for their money in content in the course of a single year? More than BW has put out in ALL FOUR of their expansions. In other words, what BW has charged subs 4 years of sub fees for, SE has given to their players in ONE YEAR.

 

On the augment thing, NO, you are incorrect. Glyphs and Signets are the equivalent of the set bonus and that is given throughout the game. Augments are attached to your skills and actually enhance what they are capable of. It would be like have new sub-skills you could attach to your current quick bar skills to make them do additional things. Furthermore, that is a very small company that could give more in their scenarios than BW could do in Uprisings.

 

I have 19 days left and I am done. I am done not just because of their determination to intentionally PO a good portion of their customer base, but also because I can go elsewhere to any other MMO and get a ton more for the same money that BW gives. They don't deserve any passes on this. For a title that was once supposed to challenge WoW, they can't even put out enough content in a year to match the smaller MMOs on the market.

[Wayshuba]

This is basically what I was going to post.

 

I understand that BW doesnt have the funding to produce the amount of content that FF14 does. However some people need to realize what we have on SWTOR is not "a lot", at least not compared to its competitors. In fact its pretty **** compared to them. By the way, FF14s basic sub fee is cheaper than SWTORs. lol

 

See I disagree with that final assessment. EA is the second largest gaming company with $4.5 billion in revenue (and they are not far behind Activision with $2.6 billion in revenue). Square Enix does $1.9 billion a year. So how can a company with less than half the revenues of EA seem to have a budget where SWTOR does not? If EA wanted to they could in fact do what SE did with FFXIV.

 

But they don't and for good reason. They have sunk a lot of money into this without seeing the return they had hoped. That is simply because since it's earliest development, the title has been mismanaged as it still is today. Square Enix recognized that and when they fired the original producer and actually hired one that cared about the game and the brand, engaged with the customers, and then delivered what they wanted - he turned something that started as a failure into a growing success.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Wayshuba

[FerkWork]

Been doing WZs actually I'm just curious as to what more is needed for it to be end game?

 

I see a new map and go "Wow. It's a new map, but still pvp. Still a team of 4-8 bashing on a team of 4-8."

 

What exactly is going to change in my WZ queueing if I got a new map? Some new map where every member of the team has to stand on their own square and defend it for points and do that for 10minutes?

 

Are you talking OPs? You're put at level 70 for them and they give this games version of a reward for that. So what different does that make, that it's not a new map, for an aspect of the game that requires a lot of people, but never seems to be PuG friendly?

 

FP! they can add a new FP, requires a team of four, be level 70 and you'd say "That's not end game." Why, because it's 4 person

 

Not to mention, the story is the only thing setting TOR apart from other MMOs, and they stopped doing that aspect of it to make it like every other MMO where it's one story for all.

 

Again you speak with the ignorance as a casual story player. There is no progression and endgame in Ops without new ones that haven't been cleared. And there is no Ops community left or Ranked. Again you clearly don't get it and should stick to story topics. Again endgame is dead it's SP all the way. But continue to be delusional

 

You are dismissed / :3

Edited January 26, 2017 by FerkWork

[realleaftea]

Expect too much? If I expect any less it will be NOTHING. I am only comparing it to what other company;s provide for content updates to their player base and SWTOR is woefully lacking versus most popular MMOs - woefully lacking. Expecting them to at least deliver, for $180/year sub fee, what other MMOs have done is NOT expecting too much - it is expecting them to at least compete in the market.

 

Do you have any idea how much content FFXIV players, who pay the same $180/year, have got for their money in content in the course of a single year? More than BW has put out in ALL FOUR of their expansions. In other words, what BW has charged subs 4 years of sub fees for, SE has given to their players in ONE YEAR.

 

On the augment thing, NO, you are incorrect. Glyphs and Signets are the equivalent of the set bonus and that is given throughout the game. Augments are attached to your skills and actually enhance what they are capable of. It would be like have new sub-skills you could attach to your current quick bar skills to make them do additional things. Furthermore, that is a very small company that could give more in their scenarios than BW could do in Uprisings

Sure, if you feel like comparing SWTOR to newer MMOs like Final Fantasy XIV, feel free to switch the game. It might have more subscribers than SWTOR and you might get more for your money in return. But I also know other MMOs that are far worse than SWTOR. Heck, some of them are just overly complex chat programs. And let me tell you that most f2p games easily beat the $180 per year mark you've mentioned.

 

But that aside, my reply wasn't meant to be a justification, but an explaination why the things are as they are. What you do with that is totally up to you.

Edited January 26, 2017 by realleaftea

[Wayshuba]

OP insists that only fresh OPs = an MMO. That is simple obfuscation right there.. what the OP really means is.... he wants new OPs. Why not just say it and stop with the hyperbole right up front.

 

Stop you are the one obfuscating. Any other MMO on the market that charges as sub fee (and many that don't) regularly deliver group content (dungeons and/or raids). BW charges a sub fee and hasn't delivered a single raid (or flashpoint for that matter) in more than two years. It is complete and utter BS that a game with this IP backed by a company as big as EA cannot even keep up with competing MMOs on the market. How can one title, run by a company less than half the size of EA, deliver 18 NEW dungeons and 8 NEW raids in the course of a year but EA/BW cannot deliver a single one in two years?

[Wayshuba]

Sure, if you feel like comparing SWTOR to newer MMOs like Final Fantasy XIV, feel free to switch the game. It might have more subscribers than SWTOR and you might get more for your money in return. But I also know other MMOs that are far worse than SWTOR. Heck, some of them are just overly complex chat programs. And let me tell you that most f2p games easily beat the $180 per year mark you've mentioned.

 

But that aside, my reply wasn't meant to be a justification, but an explaination why the things are as they are. What you do with that is totally up to you.

 

Just for reference, name a sub based MMO that delivers less content?

 

WoW - more content

FFXIV - more content

ESO - more content (and that is hybrid)

GW2 - more content

 

Heck, TSW, run by a small company with a small development staff has put out an entirely new zone (Kaiden), with a completely new game system (Aegis), with three new high-level dungeons and a raid in the last two years.

 

Even a ten year old title, LOTRO, has put out more content in the last two years than SWTOR.

 

So, are we going to compare SWTOR to what as far as content production? A slam together small team title, or serious titles. Even A-grade (not triple A) are putting out more content that SWTOR.