Ben and Bioware remains silent about the critisism for 5.1.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

It SHOULD have...that's the point. I don't care who ponied up the cash, the fact that it would have been better used to invest in the games development isn't arguable.

 

From your perspective sure but if I was EA looking at 2015 and BWA asked for another trailer I'd happily give them more money because there was a great ROI from that.

 

The issue isn't "they should have spent the money on this" because they wouldn't have been given it either way. The issue is BWA secure a budget based on a plan and it's this plan that fails.

 

I don't want to go into the nitty gritty of financial planning and how this likely works and how asking for more money ( and getting it ) with this team in charge of BWA would actually be a bad thing ( reduced profit margins ) but suffice to say you just need believe that the people in charge at BWA are more the problem here and EAs main failing is leaving them in charge.

 

We want people in charge who can make the most of what they have not use money to come up with something like GC ... they actually used dev money to make the game worse and that is laughable.

[Wayshuba]

From your perspective sure but if I was EA looking at 2015 and BWA asked for another trailer I'd happily give them more money because there was a great ROI from that.

 

The issue isn't "they should have spent the money on this" because they wouldn't have been given it either way. The issue is BWA secure a budget based on a plan and it's this plan that fails.

 

I don't want to go into the nitty gritty of financial planning and how this likely works and how asking for more money ( and getting it ) with this team in charge of BWA would actually be a bad thing ( reduced profit margins ) but suffice to say you just need believe that the people in charge at BWA are more the problem here and EAs main failing is leaving them in charge.

 

We want people in charge who can make the most of what they have not use money to come up with something like GC ... they actually used dev money to make the game worse and that is laughable.

 

Very well spoken and educational post for those unfamiliar with corporate workings. I agree with so many points (especially wasting precious dev dollars on a new pack opening experience and this GC system).

 

To your point about the people in charge, I think a good example can be drawn to FFXIV. Which launched in 2012 and became an abject disappointment (remember the CEO of Square Enix was positioning the title as a potential WoW killer). Instead of keeping things as they are, SE fired the original producer and put a new one in charge (that is loved by FF online fans). He first engaged the community, established good will, and came up with the plan to BLOW UP the original game and relaunch. He also considers the needs of his customers today, and delivers regular and diverse content updates to the game. The result - it is now the No. 2 MMO on the market.

 

The reason I give the example above isn't so much to praise SE, but to point out that if EA had just put some competent people in charge (which this game has NEVER had and definitely is lacking in the last two years), who cared about the game and could pitch a comprehensive plan to the execs at EA - like Yoshida-san did at SE) - then this game could have been a serious competitor to WoW. I always wonder what this game could have been had they had someone as competent and caring as Yoshida-san on the title. Instead, they have people that don't even play their own game. Sad. Just very sad.

 

Instead, it will one day go down as the MMO that... "could have been". It takes a special type of arrogance and incompetence to have such a massive IP and not be able to capitalize on it.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Wayshuba

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Very well spoken and educational post for those unfamiliar with corporate workings. I agree with so many points (especially wasting precious dev dollars on a new pack opening experience and this GC system).

 

To your point about the people in charge, I think a good example can be drawn to FFXIV. Which launched in 2012 and became an abject disappointment (remember the CEO of Square Enix was positioning the title as a potential WoW killer). Instead of keeping things as they are, SE fired the original producer and put a new one in charge (that is loved by FF online fans). He first engaged the community, established good will, and came up with the plan to BLOW UP the original game and relaunch. He also considers the needs of his customers today, and delivers regular and diverse content updates to the game. The result - it is now the No. 2 MMO on the market.

 

The reason I give the example above isn't so much to praise SE, but to point out that if EA had just put some competent people in charge (which this game has NEVER had and definitely is lacking in the last two years), who cared about the game and could pitch a comprehensive plan to the execs at EA - like Yoshida-san did at SE) - then this game could have been a serious competitor to WoW. I always wonder what this game could have been had they had someone as competent and caring as Yoshida-san on the title. Instead, they have people that don't even play their own game. Sad. Just very sad.

 

Instead, it will one day go down as the MMO that... "could have been". It takes a special type of arrogance and incompetence to have such a massive IP and not be able to capitalize on it.

 

Note my post was made pre the stream.

 

We want people in charge who can make the most of what they have not use money to come up with something like GC ... they actually used dev money to make the game worse and that is laughable.

 

5.2 shows them making a change and using that money to now create content that is beneficial.

 

Can they keep this up and secure more capital for more content like this and in a faster method? Who knows *shrug* - we don't know what criteria EA put on how they set their budgets to their dev houses.

 

If they can demonstrate an upswing in revenue from this direction then they have ground to pursue more of it.

 

Of course they could just keep doing more of the same with balanced, yet limited quantity, of content if EA is happy to keep putting in the same amount of capital and willing to risk any more extra investment ( which I doubt they will after 2016 ).

 

If this is the future of the game though and the amount of content we get then I'm happy with it compared to another 2016 which would have me subscribing effectively once the whole year if they did that again.

[DanNV]

If this is the future of the game though and the amount of content we get then I'm happy with it compared to another 2016 which would have me subscribing effectively once the whole year if they did that again.

 

Honestly, if the future is one boss every couple of months to make an Op at the end of the year, there is still no reason to sub in between. Wait for it all to come out, sub and see how the game goes, see how the Op plays, see how the gearing goes and hang around or leave then. The trickle out thing didn't work with KotFE and they admitted as much. I'm not sure why they expect it to work now.

 

Again, let me say that if they fixed the gearing, I'd stay and keep progressing on the HM ops. But, they aren't fixing the gearing, so why pay a sub fee in the hopes they might, someday fix it and I might someday be able to get back to the content I want to play?

[Shwarzchild]

From your perspective sure but if I was EA looking at 2015 and BWA asked for another trailer I'd happily give them more money because there was a great ROI from that.

 

The issue isn't "they should have spent the money on this" because they wouldn't have been given it either way. The issue is BWA secure a budget based on a plan and it's this plan that fails.

 

I don't want to go into the nitty gritty of financial planning and how this likely works and how asking for more money ( and getting it ) with this team in charge of BWA would actually be a bad thing ( reduced profit margins ) but suffice to say you just need believe that the people in charge at BWA are more the problem here and EAs main failing is leaving them in charge.

 

We want people in charge who can make the most of what they have not use money to come up with something like GC ... they actually used dev money to make the game worse and that is laughable.

 

it's project management not financial planning. But, your point is spot on otherwise. BWA's project lead will submit a project proposal to EA. That will include time frames, cost etc. I'd be surprised if they didn't use a tool like Earned Value Management to measure their performance as it related to cost to be honest.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Shwarzchild

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Honestly, if the future is one boss every couple of months to make an Op at the end of the year, there is still no reason to sub in between. Wait for it all to come out, sub and see how the game goes, see how the Op plays, see how the gearing goes and hang around or leave then. The trickle out thing didn't work with KotFE and they admitted as much. I'm not sure why they expect it to work now.

 

Because KoTFE was episodic content. I.e. here is your story enjoy. 50 minutes later you were done. There was no reason to repeat it at all. So far we only know what is in 5.2 and then that we'll get more op bosses over the year.

 

5.2 is a massive step up from what we got last year in regards to 50 minutes of content a month. If it's anything like oricon ( and mixed reputation implies differing story based on selected faction with alts ) it's going to be many hours of fun.

 

I agree if we get 5.2 and then JUST 1 boss fight until the end of the year that will fail - what we don't know is what else comes after 5.2 . 5.2 already sounds like it's got enough content in it to occupy more hours of my play time than ALL of the 4.0 cycle after the expansion itself dropped - that's a massive step up for my play time into this game.

 

So already that's a win.If we got another 5.2 style drop later in the year and some other minor stuff ( PVP map perhaps, more uprisings ) it makes this cycle far more content heavy than we've had in recent years.

 

Again, let me say that if they fixed the gearing, I'd stay and keep progressing on the HM ops. But, they aren't fixing the gearing, so why pay a sub fee in the hopes they might, someday fix it and I might someday be able to get back to the content I want to play?

 

No one is arguing the gearing is stuffed completely. I am hoping they fix it by 5.2 because they want to be able to add some carrots, op boss to those daily areas ( more CXP isn't going to work, people will be well rinsed of it by then ).

Question is, and try be honest, would this prevent you from coming back and trying 5.2 if they didn't fix it? If so would that then be 1 month sub that 5.2 gets out of you compared to say the same as last year if you could have got months chapters?

 

Point is we don't know what's coming beyond 5.2, 5.2 is good in comparison to the last couple of years and gearing is still ****.

[Shwarzchild]

Honestly, if the future is one boss every couple of months to make an Op at the end of the year, there is still no reason to sub in between. Wait for it all to come out, sub and see how the game goes, see how the Op plays, see how the gearing goes and hang around or leave then. The trickle out thing didn't work with KotFE and they admitted as much. I'm not sure why they expect it to work now.

 

Again, let me say that if they fixed the gearing, I'd stay and keep progressing on the HM ops. But, they aren't fixing the gearing, so why pay a sub fee in the hopes they might, someday fix it and I might someday be able to get back to the content I want to play?

 

You're working under the assumption that the boss released is of Nefra quality. That remains to be seen. If it's like say..Colossal Monolith, a great many people will not be finished that boss by the time the next one drops. The trickle thing didn't work with story mainly because story isn't durable content. You can't make story hard enough to last multiple weeks. Players have always consumed story at a far greater pace than anything else. Even if the boss is as hard as sword squadron or Bulo pre nerfs groups will be stuck on it for a month. People still haven't beaten the Underlurker. To flat out decree that the boss won't take a good many raiders a month is a little far.

 

The gearing is a separate issue of course. I agree with what Gabigol said in a previous thread where the gearing has the potential to throw this whole thing off course. However, I believe Galactic Command can absolutely be saved with tweaks. Also, it's here to stay fortunately or unfortunately so living in the pre 5.0 days is a waste of your time. There are ways to save Galactic Command, even if there are those who say it's impossible. For instance, if the GSF and Ground PvP weekly awarded 100 gear components and the dailies for each awarded 20 that would go a long way to allowing players to grab those components. It's the same principle that 4.0 used to great effect.

[Dreez]

I missed the stream because i was misinformed of the time. But i guess nothing will change

in terms of gameplay the near months and 2/3 of the content will remain useless for L60 characters.

RNG will reign supreme unless you want to farm and farm and farm for tokens.

 

No changes to Flashpoints , they remain pointless.

No changes to Heroics , they remain pointless for 60+.

[Shwarzchild]

I missed the stream because i was misinformed of the time. But i guess nothing will change

in terms of gameplay the near months and 2/3 of the content will remain useless for L60 characters.

RNG will reign supreme unless you want to farm and farm and farm for tokens.

 

No changes to Flashpoints , they remain pointless.

No changes to Heroics , they remain pointless for 60+.

 

Out of curiosity, why would anything change for a level 60 player? At level 60 you're completely taken care of still. I'ts when you reach end game that things get interesting. Keep enjoying the 10 more levels and then tackle end game when end game hits.

[x_Boots_x]

Yes, but metrics alone don't tell the whole story. It's like looking at how many people are in prison for drug charges and saying they are winning the war on drugs because of the amount of people they've arrested.

 

Yeah, we have heard from the same clueless defenders such as yourself for 5 years, and 300 populated servers ago. Time and time again, customers saying people are leaving and fleet is dead, followed by defenders saying "not true" "not true" followed by a dead server and always another server merge and reduction in numbers, bad decisions rinse and replete.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Yeah, we have heard from the same clueless defenders such as yourself for 5 years, and 300 populated servers ago. Time and time again, customers saying people are leaving and fleet is dead, followed by defenders saying "not true" "not true" followed by a dead server and always another server merge and reduction in numbers, bad decisions rinse and replete.

 

EA say thanks for your money anyway.

[DanNV]

Question is, and try be honest, would this prevent you from coming back and trying 5.2 if they didn't fix it? If so would that then be 1 month sub that 5.2 gets out of you compared to say the same as last year if you could have got months chapters?

 

Yes, the gearing will keep me from coming back to play the boss. I might wait till it's all out, give them a months worth of $ and play it SM, but that's it. And that isn't what they need to keep the lights on.

 

Point is we don't know what's coming beyond 5.2, 5.2 is good in comparison to the last couple of years and gearing is still ****.

 

You are right, we don't. And I'm not paying them money in the hopes they might, maybe fix the mess they made. Anyone who does is nuts.

[DanNV]

However, I believe Galactic Command can absolutely be saved with tweaks. Also, it's here to stay fortunately or unfortunately so living in the pre 5.0 days is a waste of your time. There are ways to save Galactic Command, even if there are those who say it's impossible. For instance, if the GSF and Ground PvP weekly awarded 100 gear components and the dailies for each awarded 20 that would go a long way to allowing players to grab those components. It's the same principle that 4.0 used to great effect.

 

There is no chance to tweak GC and make it work. By the time they make it work, it won't be Galactic Command anymore and very few of those who have left will come back. And since all I've been doing is Ops, dropping more from PVP won't help and GSF dropping anything makes no sense, but whatever.

 

However you look at it, GC was ill-conceived and poorly designed. And don't forget, it had nothing to do with making gear accessible and everything to do with keeping subs grinding for a year.

[IstariZen]

Yes, the gearing will keep me from coming back to play the boss. I might wait till it's all out, give them a months worth of $ and play it SM, but that's it. And that isn't what they need to keep the lights on.

 

You are right, we don't. And I'm not paying them money in the hopes they might, maybe fix the mess they made. Anyone who does is nuts.

 

I honestly think you have an MMO confused with FPS. Seriously, do you not comprehend how these games work??!?

 

Im not joking, go look them up:

 

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1ASUM_enUS687US687&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Role+playing+games+are+time+consuming

 

This is a google search for "role playing games are time consuming"

 

 

Fans of this sort of content, literally want that. You are not a fan of this sort of content, which is why battlefront exist. Please go play that.

[FluxFader]

Go figure... they're currently hated or seriously disliked at the moment, with players calling the

developers incompetent in thread after thread - with all rights. We're yet another update into the game,

an update that only managed to make the game even worse, more of the same grind... grind in more places

to get the same items.

 

Yet Ben and Biowares Absence of the forums is clear, probably avoiding flak of they just don't know how

to cook up a statement that doesn't make them look stupid, but they did that very well on their own.

 

The playerbase is failing in the game, and you have the worst F2P-model out of all mmo's where F2P players

doesn't even get gear rewarded for their missions... what kind of mmo has a F2P model where you need to

pay to get gear-rewards for simple missions ?.

 

It feels like speaking to a wall currently, but if Ben and Bioware continues to ignore the players

and run their own course, the course will see this game dead within a year and the "new content" planned

for dec 2017 will be canceled or heavily delayed.

 

/gg SWTOR - Rip.

 

Except People have been saying the same things for years and still the game has not died. It brings in a lot of $$$ for EA, its not gonna die anytime soon. Forum complaints do not represent the whole, sadly all our complaining really goes on deaf ears. Developers have no control. People we never see or hear about run things...

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Anyone who does is nuts.

 

How so?

I can play all the content that comes out in 5.2 in the gear I'm in now which is only 230 ( half set bonus 224 rest 230).

Why would I care at all about the gear situation now in regards to 5.2? Up until I want to do HM raids anyway then how I get that 234/236 gear becomes an issue but there is a decent amount of content there it seems for 1-2 months ( plus these new uprisings I've not attempted ).

 

Point is not everyone has to care about gear so you can't really make a statement like the above.

[DanNV]

How so?

 

If you want them to change it and you keep paying them you're nuts. They won't change it as long as people pay for it. If you think they will, you're nuts.

 

If you like it and want to pay for it, have at. I won't.

[Wayshuba]

Except People have been saying the same things for years and still the game has not died. It brings in a lot of $$$ for EA, its not gonna die anytime soon. Forum complaints do not represent the whole, sadly all our complaining really goes on deaf ears. Developers have no control. People we never see or hear about run things...

 

I am not so sure at this point. EA seems to be putting very little investment into this title lately. It is obvious, by the amount of content they have covered coming in the next year, there is a small team working on this at this point. If EA holds true to their common MO, then this is usually an indicator that this is closer to done than most know.

 

I personally believe EA has already made the decision on the termination date and the marching orders are to try and capture as much revenue during that period as possible with the least amount of expenditure.

[IstariZen]

I am not so sure at this point. EA seems to be putting very little investment into this title lately. It is obvious, by the amount of content they have covered coming in the next year, there is a small team working on this at this point. If EA holds true to their common MO, then this is usually an indicator that this is closer to done than most know.

 

I personally believe EA has already made the decision on the termination date and the marching orders are to try and capture as much revenue during that period as possible with the least amount of expenditure.

 

Yeah there is no way. This might true if it wasnt for the expected surges from EP 8 and 9.

 

The only thing hurting this game, is people scaring new players off by calling it "dreadfully bad" when it isnt. It results in a smaller team etc. EA knows damn well though that they can squeeze good money out of those movies. So don't expect it to go anywhere. If you care about the game though, be constructive. So that when the time comes for EA to drop more money into the game, it makes more sense then just making a play ground for new players. They need a proper team.

 

If the negative posters hurt it 10% they(the negative posters) are definitely killing our content. Way more than the three guys who have a career working on this game. This game means more to them than people know.

 

If people stopped trolling the crap out of these forums with regurgitated negative nonsense and instead gave real feedback, this game would do much better. Even if it failed in the past, now is the time to get on that.

Edited January 28, 2017 by IstariZen

[Wayshuba]

If people stopped trolling the crap out of these forums with regurgitated negative nonsense and instead gave real feedback, this game would do much better. Even if it failed in the past, now is the time to get on that.

 

People did give real feedback when 5.0 GC System was first announced. They gave real feedback when it was on the PTS. They gave real feedback right after launch.

 

BioWare chose to ignore the majority of that feedback. Like 99.9% of it. So the result is a lot of frustrated players who feel as if they are banging their head on the wall. Honestly, when you are paying for something, you shouldn't have those feelings.

 

So I would contest the current negativity on the forums can be laid at BWs feet for feeling they can simply ignore a good portion of their paying customers.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

If you want them to change it and you keep paying them you're nuts. They won't change it as long as people pay for it. If you think they will, you're nuts.

 

If you like it and want to pay for it, have at. I won't.

 

... no you're either nuts to be paying for a game you don't enjoy or you are nuts to purposely not return to play a game you enjoy solely because you don't like the gearing system.

 

If the gearing system doesn't affect you and you can enjoy the new content they are creating then the smart choice is to indeed pay for that content ( as you won't get it for free ).

 

Cut your nose off to spite your face all you like otherwise, at the end no one else here really cares what any of us do.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

 

If people stopped trolling the crap out of these forums with regurgitated negative nonsense and instead gave real feedback, this game would do much better. Even if it failed in the past, now is the time to get on that.

 

Implying anyone who has a negative view is a troll just lost you any credibility you might have had.

 

The negative views and posts, in line with the reduction in player numbers, clearly played a part in getting some of the changes we are seeing in 5.2.

 

Why? Because a lot of what is coming in 5.2 was what the "negative" posters have been asking for when being negative towards the current state of the game.

 

Even the gearing/GC is getting some attention but Ben or whoever came up with the idea just won't let that long winded, grindy process ( or RNG ) go.

 

I imagine come 5.2 we will see significant changes because they will feel they have actual content to keep people playing and paying as opposed to a grind system focused on repeating existing content.

 

Until then though except the gearing grind to remain more or less as it is.

[DanNV]

... no you're either nuts to be paying for a game you don't enjoy or you are nuts to purposely not return to play a game you enjoy solely because you don't like the gearing system.

 

If the gearing system doesn't affect you and you can enjoy the new content they are creating then the smart choice is to indeed pay for that content ( as you won't get it for free ).

 

Cut your nose off to spite your face all you like otherwise, at the end no one else here really cares what any of us do.

 

I'm not enjoying it because I can't do the content I want to do, that I was doing in November. Hence, I am not paying them. I'm not fool enough to keep paying for something I'm not having fun with. If you are having fun, keep paying them. If you're not, don't pay them. Pretty simple.

 

Based on populations, emergency streams, changes to a system in a hurry (even if those changes are just smoke and mirrors), etc., I'd say a lot of people aren't enjoying themselves and are no longer paying.

[DanNV]

Implying anyone who has a negative view is a troll just lost you any credibility you might have had.

 

The negative views and posts, in line with the reduction in player numbers, clearly played a part in getting some of the changes we are seeing in 5.2.

 

Why? Because a lot of what is coming in 5.2 was what the "negative" posters have been asking for when being negative towards the current state of the game.

 

Even the gearing/GC is getting some attention but Ben or whoever came up with the idea just won't let that long winded, grindy process ( or RNG ) go.

 

I imagine come 5.2 we will see significant changes because they will feel they have actual content to keep people playing and paying as opposed to a grind system focused on repeating existing content.

 

Until then though except the gearing grind to remain more or less as it is.

 

I can't argue with anything you said here, other than I don't expect big changes to gearing in 5.2. They might surprise me, but I expect that will be 5.5 or 5.6 or maybe even 6.0 if there is a 6.0.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I'm not enjoying it because I can't do the content I want to do, that I was doing in November. Hence, I am not paying them. I'm not fool enough to keep paying for something I'm not having fun with. If you are having fun, keep paying them. If you're not, don't pay them. Pretty simple.

 

Based on populations, emergency streams, changes to a system in a hurry (even if those changes are just smoke and mirrors), etc., I'd say a lot of people aren't enjoying themselves and are no longer paying.

 

Fair enough and I think your clarification there more or less undoes the point of calling everyone nuts that pays to play this game.