Juyo Form Users

[SuperPancho]

I really love the Watchman Line, the burn effects definitely make our class painful to go up against. Now the purpose of this thread is for others to give their insights/tips on how their Watchman Sentinels go about their daily lives in PvP/PvE. I'll start off by showing my potential build (im only lvl 29 currently) and some question(s) that 'i' have for u guys.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIrRbRdcGzZhZRM0z.1

 

i feel this should help give me maximum output (this is just theorycrafting) as far as damage goes.

 

now for some questions haha

 

~how do u guys setup ur keybinds for effective playing

 

~how do u guys deal with certain classes in PvP (those Assassins seem to really hurt LoL)

[Talorra]

For starters, I highly recommend points in close quarters and blurred speed. Having leap up more often, giving you a zero min range, focus building, damage dealing interrupt is amazing.

 

I've got more points in the defensive abilities of Combat, in order to mitigate AoE damage while on target. Mine is a pure PvE build though, as I only PvP while waiting for guild members to travel for flashpoints.

 

How often are you using transcendence that focused pursuit is useful? Zen is usually our best centering ability, with it's bonus to Juyo form, so those two points seem misspent to me.

[nbuskirk]

Read the description for accuracy.

 

Anything above 100% gives armor penetration, straight bypassing armor. People probably don't really think about this for pvp either.

 

You are missing the 3/3 accuracy talent in combat. I refuse to not take this anymore. I will use that + gear, mods, and enhacements, whatever to push me above 100 accuracy at 50. Again, with no meters really, it's all theorycrafting.

 

But if any other mmos taught us anything, the necessity to HIT the target trumps all :/

[MBirkhofer]

above 100% accuracy is not armor pen. I misread this as well. or perhaps they changed the tooltip, as it was misleading?

 

Anyway its defense, or dodge/parry that is reduced over 100% accuracy.

[darthtoph]

above 100% accuracy is not armor pen. I misread this as well. or perhaps they changed the tooltip, as it was misleading?

 

Anyway its defense, or dodge/parry that is reduced over 100% accuracy.

I believe they changed the tooltip. Last night I too noticed the loading screen info on accuracy said reduced defense while I swear the tooltip used to say otherwise.

 

 

For starters, I highly recommend points in close quarters and blurred speed. Having leap up more often, giving you a zero min range, focus building, damage dealing interrupt is amazing.

You only need 1 pt in Close Quarters as 5m will do just fine. If you're leaping to anything below 5m you're using Force Leap wrong. Use it to either close the gap or to put some distance between peeps smashing at you.

Edited December 28, 2011 by darthtoph

[SteveGarbage]

You only need 1 pt in Close Quarters as 5m will do just fine. If you're leaping to anything below 5m you're using Force Leap wrong. Use it to either close the gap or to put some distance between peeps smashing at you.

 

I disagree. Having the ability to use your three-point Focus builder at melee range is invaluable, since it's better than the plain Strike. Worth the second point.

[ErisktheRed]

For starters, I highly recommend points in close quarters and blurred speed. Having leap up more often, giving you a zero min range, focus building, damage dealing interrupt is amazing.

 

I've got more points in the defensive abilities of Combat, in order to mitigate AoE damage while on target. Mine is a pure PvE build though, as I only PvP while waiting for guild members to travel for flashpoints.

 

How often are you using transcendence that focused pursuit is useful? Zen is usually our best centering ability, with it's bonus to Juyo form, so those two points seem misspent to me.

 

I agree 100% almost. and this isn't necessarily input of the OP's build but Close Quarters and Blurred speed are vital imo, your 0 meter leap becomes prime focus building with zealous strike and = more DPS. If managed properly you will barely use strike to gen focus and be more efficient.

 

0 meter Force Leap is about FOCUS generation not just to close the gap between targets. If u decide to go Combat for 1 point extra focus gen for leap it's even more important. It's a vital skill imo for Watchman to keep your burn attacks going. Seriously you're using leap wrong if you DONT have 2 points in Close Quarters imo

 

Inflammation is really a PVP only skill imo, and it is useful in PVP. But if you're more PVE occasional PVP probably don't need.

 

Also Dual Wield Mastery, unless they fix/up the offhand dmg, the actual dmg+ is very negligible even with the 36% increase to offhand dmg. I used to think it was a must have, but it's not. 3 points is a lot, there was a thread with number crunching here that convinced me to drop it and forget where it went.

 

Watchman's boon is it's DoTs/crits - stacked with it's zen/centering. So I like to take defensive forms for more centering (+ the dmg red is useful in PVP) Here's mine (only 32 right now) my last 6 points are kind of up in the air not sure where to place, except Insight I think is great for burn crit increase. And Jedi Crusader when solo.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIbRrRMcGzZMMZG00z.1

Edited December 28, 2011 by ErisktheRed

[darthtoph]

You guys are aware that your melee range is 4m? Meaning 5-30m leap range is sufficient. If anything, take a step back.

 

Also and regarding DPS, I've yet to see a single sentinel thread that mention relics. Do people use their relics at all? I got both hotkeyed, meaning one is up every minute. Trust me, they will take your damage over the top.

Edited December 28, 2011 by darthtoph

[ErisktheRed]

You guys are aware that your melee range is 4m? Meaning 5-30m leap range is sufficient. If anything, take a step back.

 

Also and regarding DPS, I've yet to see a single sentinel thread that mention relics. Do people use their relics at all? I got both hotkeyed, meaning one is up every minute. Trust me, they will take your damage over the top.

 

I thought this too at first but 0 meter leap is about generating focus, that's the reason to get 0 meter leap. It's not JUST about closing the gap between targets, it's the next best focus builder after zealous strike and makes your building/DPS output/burns more efficient over using default strike a lot to gen focus. Higher levels taking steps back become difficult, and lose momentum/time. 1 point worthwhile imo.

 

And relics yeah definitely depending are great!

Edited December 28, 2011 by ErisktheRed

[SuperPancho]

I never saw Force as more than a gap closer, but as a Focus builder its actually pretty effective.

 

Now I have a question about our burns, r they considered 'force' moves and would benefit from the Focus line ability, forgot what its called?

 

[MBirkhofer]

I thought this too at first but 0 meter leap is about generating focus, that's the reason to get 0 meter leap. It's not JUST about closing the gap between targets, it's the next best focus builder after zealous strike and makes your building/DPS output/burns more efficient over using default strike a lot to gen focus. Higher levels taking steps back become difficult, and lose momentum/time. 1 point worthwhile imo.

 

And relics yeah definitely depending are great!

 

you misunderstand what hes saying.

Hes saying you can force leap in melee range with the 5m leap because 5m IS melee range.

 

0 is literately standing inside the hit box. Generally you be at 3-4 just so you can see and move as needed.

[KonduitX]

I disagree. Having the ability to use your three-point Focus builder at melee range is invaluable, since it's better than the plain Strike. Worth the second point.

Leap's main function is a gap closer, not a focus generator. This is why you can spam Strike over and over, and if you want the immobilize this is why you have Leg Slash. 5m is melee range btw, so 2 points is completely useless.

 

Invaluable? What happens in PvP when you get cc'd right after you waste your Leap on a target at melee range? Because that's the first thing I would do on a BH or Agent the moment I see a Sent do something stupid like that.

Edited December 29, 2011 by KonduitX

[darthtoph]

Now I have a question about our burns, r they considered 'force' moves and would benefit from the Focus line ability, forgot what its called?

Not sure if I understood the question correctly as it's 5am here but did you mean to ask if they're considered "force" damage/moves ergo benefit from some bottom skill from the Focus tree? Looking at the skill tree calculator (not ingame atm), you must mean Insight?

 

Good question. Last time I checked I read they were considered elemental damage or something like that, why they do so much damage. Meaning they penetrate right through your opponents armor. But I'm just theorycrafting atm as I don't really know the answer. Since I read that bit about burns not being force moves I added my extra points to the Combat tree: DW + Defensive Roll + Defensive Forms - anything that builds centering/focus + that sweet 30% area defect damage debuff (allthough I dunno if it's really working atm haha). But I'm having fun with my sentinel as it is.

 

I might be willing to reskill and add points to Insight if they're considered "force" moves. So interesting question indeed.

[LordSkyKnight]

Leap's main function is a gap closer, not a focus generator. This is why you can spam Strike over and over, and if you want the immobilize this is why you have Leg Slash. 5m is melee range btw, so 2 points is completely useless.

 

Invaluable? What happens in PvP when you get cc'd right after you waste your Leap on a target at melee range? Because that's the first thing I would do on a BH or Agent the moment I see a Sent do something stupid like that.

 

Quit trolling and head back to the bounty hunter forums. Do you even play a watchman sentinel? Thats the purpose of putting those two points into the ability, to change it from a gap closer to a gap closer / focus builder.

[KonduitX]

Quit trolling and head back to the bounty hunter forums. Do you even play a watchman sentinel? Thats the purpose of putting those two points into the ability, to change it from a gap closer to a gap closer / focus builder.

My main is Sentinel, and if you have stepped into a WZ once in your life you will know exactly what I'm talking about. Melee range is 4m... 1 point reduces the range of Leap to 5m.

 

Saying that putting 2 points instead of 1 into Close Quarters changes it from gap closer to focus builder is a stupid comment, it has the exact same functionality except now it works if your standing right on top of a target that isn't moving. You do know enemies tend to move, right? That fact right there makes the second point useless.

Edited December 29, 2011 by KonduitX

[Kyromoo]

Pardon, but you're fooling yourself if you think you won't ever need to stack directly on top of something in a raid, thus necessitating that 0m Force Leap for Watchman.

 

 

 

While yes, you can certainly get away with 1 point in it for PvP, I would recommend 2 points for high end PvE.

[Ganiccus]

As I say in my video, this is a very rag-tag thrown together spec, but the gameplay should serve as to show what a Watchman Sentinel can do:

 

 

Hope you enjoy!

[KonduitX]

Pardon, but you're fooling yourself if you think you won't ever need to stack directly on top of something in a raid, thus necessitating that 0m Force Leap for Watchman.

 

 

 

While yes, you can certainly get away with 1 point in it for PvP, I would recommend 2 points for high end PvE.

You might have a legitimate point for raiding, but than again for 1 skill point how often are you going to absolutely need to use Leap at 0m range when you can step out and perform leap while still in melee range. Stacking on a mob usually gives you a 5m berth as well, and compare the bonus that 1 point could do for you somewhere else.

 

But for PvP, hands down, waste of a skill point.

Edited December 29, 2011 by KonduitX

[LordSkyKnight]

Find an NPC then move into melee range and use the range tracker to test it. It will have a range number under the portrait. Now take the time to back out to 5m to force leap with one point in the skill. Really why the hell would you even do that? If that is the case just swing strike again and move back into rotations. If you are going to waste two or three global cooldowns pulling that crap then there is no point in putting points into the skill in the first place.

 

The close quarters skill is not meant as a pvp skill, it's a pve skill. Its a great tool to help build focus in long drawn out fights.

Edited December 29, 2011 by LordSkyKnight

[Alkolyk]

No min range on leap is the only sure way to use it as a Silence in pvp when melee'ing casters. A silence that gives you focus is a pretty sweet thing.

[KonduitX]

Find an NPC then move into melee range and use the range tracker to test it. It will have a range number under the portrait. Now take the time to back out to 5m to force leap with one point in the skill. Really why the hell would you even do that?

1. To save an extra skill point to put somewhere else more useful.

2. The point is moot if the target is moving.

[KonduitX]

No min range on leap is the only sure way to use it as a Silence in pvp when melee'ing casters. A silence that gives you focus is a pretty sweet thing.

It doesn't Silence, it immobilizes and interrupts. Movement and latency in PvP is so erratic that the difference between 0m and 5m isn't a factor, and if you are using your Leap cooldown when your already right on top of someone in PvP, you deserve to get CC'd and kited to death right after.

 

I honestly hope you guys don't represent the average Sentinel player base.... because if so we are in serious trouble man.

Edited December 29, 2011 by KonduitX

[LordSkyKnight]

1. To save an extra skill point to put somewhere else more useful.

2. The point is moot if the target is moving.

 

You don't seem to understand me. The time you are taking to back out to be able to force leap again is better utilized using other skills. There is no point putting one point into close quarters. Fully utilize it or don't.

[KonduitX]

You don't seem to understand me. The time you are taking to back out to be able to force leap again is better utilized using other skills. There is no point putting one point into close quarters. Fully utilize it or don't.

You don't seem to understand that the point could be put somewhere else more useful, it takes a fraction of a second to step 4m especially in a game with latency, you don't need to back out if the target is moving and what your implying is very situational and applies mostly to solo PvE. There is a very good point for putting only 1 point in Close Quarters, it reduces the gap to melee range which is all you need, especially for PvP. Fully waste a point or put it somewhere else more useful.

 

This is what Sentinel players have been saying since beta, if you've been here since 2009 and still haven't figured it out than you are helpless.

Edited December 29, 2011 by KonduitX

[Elaeno]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501MIbRrorcGzZhrZh.1

 

thats the specc i use and the reason for it is simply ... i took away 1 accuracy point and traded it for 2% crit reason why i did so is that the lvl 50 gear ive seen so far have had alot of accuracy over all so i rather sac 1% hit for 2% crit and for most that wonder i clearify the force crit goes for all sentinel abilities that cost force