Atraxy Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 But it is a lot like WoW...Vanilla WoW that is. People just tend to have a short term memory, or forget what vanilla was really like, because they never actually played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buur Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 No .. it's not a falacy. If WoW was so great there would be no reason to even CONSIDER playing another game. Pizza is great. Is it the only food you ever eat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) It is not a fallacy because it was never said that WOW wasn't successful.. It was said that WOW didn't work.. Please read your quote again.. WOW does not work and hasn't ever really worked.. That is a subjective generalisation. And an incorrect one at that. WoW DOES work. 10 million subscribers are disagreeing with your generalisation. Edited December 28, 2011 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) No .. it's not a falacy. If WoW was so great there would be no reason to even CONSIDER playing another game. Does an MMO need to be supreme to the point whereby there is no other competition, in order for it to be considered great? No. SWTOR may turn out to be "great" and yet using your logic it can never, ever achieve that goal whilst there is other competition on the market. Edited December 28, 2011 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrelosDarksky Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 Actually, making such a generalisation is incorrect. Whilst yes, each product needs to have it's own unique qualities which set it aside from other products, that doesn't mean that it cannot take inspiration from others. And in some cases, certain elements can even be "borrowed". As someone said earlier, it's better to learn from others mistakes whilst being mindful that it might be wise to ellaborate on previous designs (flawed or not) and make them better. Evolution is the key. Inspiration is one thing. That isn't what is being asked for. What is being asked for is SPECIFIC WoW mechanics. Heck .. most of them can't even stop calling their abilities SPELLS and talking about CASTING them. WoW's model worked for some people. Those people play WoW. A lot of people do NOT play WoW because WoW's model failed for them on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutharex Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 The two main complains I see are this: - WoW players upset that many of their beloved features from that game aren't in SWTOR such as LFD, Macros and what not. - MMO Traditionalist upset that this game is very solo heavy eheheh if THAT doesn't prove that whatever you do, you can't win, dunno what would... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHeissi Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Pizza is great. Is it the only food you ever eat? TOR ist a pizza too, just the topping is different. Pizza would be "hotkey based MMORPG" in this case. Sometimes I am going to eat toast (RTS MMO) or a hamburger (FPS MMO). Edited December 28, 2011 by GHeissi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakumene Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I enjoy fighting against a pack of enemies and actually having to use tactics. A fight that lasts longer than 10 seconds in WoW is pretty unheard of - by then you know whether or not you have to run away or you're already dead. I like to challenge myself and do some 2+ heroics with just me and my companion. CC one mob, have companion short stun a second, nuke the third, juggle aggro and kite when needed, strategic heals. WoW has NONE of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrelosDarksky Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Does an MMO need to be supreme to the point whereby there is no other competition, in order for it to be considered great? No. SWTOR may turn out to be "great" and yet using your logic it can never, ever achieve that goal whilst there is other competition on the market. No .. but if it is good as people claim it to be they wouldn't be here playing SWTOR. @ the pizza remark by Buur .... If I'm eating pizza for dinner and it's good I'm not going to ask for a cheeseburger while dinner is still on the table and then after I take a bite ask for pizza sauce and pepperoni and mozzarella cheese to be put on it because those things are what make a great food. Edited December 28, 2011 by KrelosDarksky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuranuLithdel Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 WoW is on the last dying leg of its journey thats why it is slowly becoming F2P we dont need to turn this into another WoW or else it will just run Swtor straight into the ground. Look at FFXI it was an amazing MMO but now they have gimped the hell out of it and are slowly killing it as well. I've played FFXIV since beta and though it has improved immensely since its release I will still pick Swtor over them. Swtor is still in the baby stages of its life people need to embrace the features it has and learn how to use them not wuss out and cry because its not like a game they played for all those years you want the game you got used to and love so much then go back to it. (Not targeted at anyone in particular if anyone feels its at them i didn't read everyone elses posts just the Op that was enough for me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcusgaius Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 People are going to compare it with what they are familiar with. The simple fact is that, among mmo's, WoW did more things right than most others; that's why so many people played it. Stop freaking out every time somebody uses the only familiar point of reference they have to mmo's when talking about their new game. Most of the people playing this have no other significant point of reference to compare it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Inspiration is one thing. That isn't what is being asked for. What is being asked for is SPECIFIC WoW mechanics. Heck .. most of them can't even stop calling their abilities SPELLS and talking about CASTING them. WoW's model worked for some people. Those people play WoW. A lot of people do NOT play WoW because WoW's model failed for them on so many levels. So, using very similar UI characteristics for things like the GTN and even allowing mods is bad? I disagree. What does it matter if people happen to use terms that they are more familiar with? When a person asks where the AH is, or uses the term "Casting spells", you know what they are talking about. Getting wound up about using terms from other well known games is being a little bit anal in my opinion. After all, after a while of playing this game, that player may naturally begin to stop using incorrect words anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 That is a subjective generalisation. And an incorrect one at that. WoW DOES work. 10 million subscribers are disagreeing with your generalisation. Your generalization.. How about you respond to what people say and not what you want them to say?? Nobody is disagreeing with me but you.. But if you need to quote subscriptions to be right.. Well.. You got to do what you got to do to be right I guess.. Millions of people allowed their accounts to be hacked.. Are they right too?? Enough with the straw man arguements.. I am still waiting for you to make a point.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranberries Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) People, like me, from WoW are used to: - Smooth combat - Combat logs - Enormously high FPS with no sudden drops - Customisable UI - Friendly raid frames SWTOR does none of this. These issues, too, should be standard for all MMOs. It's a staple that an MMO has each and everyone of them. The fact SWTOR does NONE of them ... It gives the game a unique disadvantage that no other MMO has had. Also, questing in WoW is -just- as enjoyable as SWTOR personally. There's very little difference. Excluding the VO/cinematics, WoW questing is actually far more enjoyable. Edited December 28, 2011 by Cranberries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Your generalization.. How about you respond to what people say and not what you want them to say?? Nobody is disagreeing with me but you.. But if you need to quote subscriptions to be right.. Well.. You got to do what you got to do to be right I guess.. Millions of people allowed their accounts to be hacked.. Are they right too?? Enough with the straw man arguements.. I am still waiting for you to make a point.. approximately 10 million are playing WoW. That isn't a generalisation. That's a fact. And if it wasn't "working" then do you honestly think people would continue to pay a sub for it? Logic would suggest that they wouldn't be so stupid. Now, you can continue to state that WoW doesn't "work", but that is a subjective statement. Others disagree with you. Therefore your statements are far from being a tautology. Edited December 28, 2011 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrelosDarksky Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 approximately 10 million are playing WoW. That isn't a generalisation. That's a fact. And if it wasn't "working" then do you honestly think people would continue to pay a sub for it? Logic would suggest that they wouldn't be so stupid. Now, you can continue to state that WoW doesn't "work", but that is a subjective statement. Others disagree with you. Therefore your statements are far from being a tautology. That same logic would point at people not looking for another game .. yet here they are ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrelosDarksky Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 People, like me, from WoW are used to: - Smooth combat - Combat logs - Enormously high FPS with no sudden drops - Customisable UI - Friendly raid frames SWTOR does none of this. These issues, too, should be standard for all MMOs. It's a staple that an MMO has each and everyone of them. The fact SWTOR does NONE of them ... It gives the game a unique disadvantage that no other MMO has had. Also, questing in WoW is -just- as enjoyable as SWTOR personally. There's very little difference. Excluding the VO/cinematics, WoW questing is actually far more enjoyable. And you're still playing SWTOR because ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespon Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Given up playing WoW to play this game as it is, if this turns to go in the same direction WoW and Blizzard is going then i will stop playing this too. Simple as that, don't ruin the game listening and given in to that wow generation of "want now". The game is fine, needs a few tweaks and more content on the long run but they did a good job and is great fun, anyone saying the opposite need their head checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkkh Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Wow is stable. So your right, this is nothing like wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) That same logic would point at people not looking for another game .. yet here they are ..... Correct. Which disproves earlier your point doesn't it The fact is that even if there is competition, an MMO can still be considered "great". Edited December 28, 2011 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuranuLithdel Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Wow is stable. So your right, this is nothing like wow. So thats why WoW is dying and becoming F2P lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyretta Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 While WoW is arguably the most successful MMO of all time I hate it. I have played much better MMOs in my time. I guess because of WoW's success, every game that comes out is compared to WoW. Still no matter how you shine it up you are still comparing things to a turd. My feelings of WoW aside, the bottom line here is this is NOT WoW nor should it ever be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranberries Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) So thats why WoW is dying and becoming F2P lol? How is a game with 10 million subscribers dying and becoming F2P? O.o 10 million subs at $15 a month ... is a lot of money. I'd kill, literally *********** destroy someone, for that kind of money. Also, SWTOR lacking 'basic' MMO features isn't a good thing ... Nor should it be justified. How can you justify the current 'lack' of basic features? I'd love to hear some proper answers. Edited December 28, 2011 by Cranberries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrelosDarksky Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 Correct. Which disproves earlier your point doesn't it The fact is that even if there is competition, an MMO can still be considered "great". No .. it doesn't. If WoW were so great then LOGICALLY there would be no need to come to another game in the first place. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 While WoW is arguably the most successful MMO of all time I hate it. I have played much better MMOs in my time. I guess because of WoW's success, every game that comes out is compared to WoW. Still no matter how you shine it up you are still comparing things to a turd. My feelings of WoW aside, the bottom line here is this is NOT WoW nor should it ever be! It isn't WoW, that much is true. The mere fact that it's based on a different IP means that it will NEVER be WoW. But, that doesn't mean that Bioware couldn't / shouldn't take inspiration or even "borrow" certain features from a product that has been successful for so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts