Are you kidding me?!?!?!

[Myhkel]

Galactic Command sucks!!! I mean, I would MUCH rather gear out my toon in max level gear in 2 weeks then NOT be rewarded in anyway for playing end game content!! Who doesn't want to endlessly grind on a main toon, spend credits to rip out mods and move to alts so THEY get geared without actually being played?!?! After all, who needs to learn to play a class when I can simply overgear and get carried by guildies that know how to play?!?!?

 

This Galactic Command system requires me to continue playing and gives me something to work for which is garbage!! I would much rather gear up quickly then spend countless hours posting on the forums, chatting in fleet and Reddit that there's nothing to do!! After all, without Galactic Command, I wouldn't have anything to threaten to cancel my subscription over!!!! I've been posting since RotHC that this game is dying and I'm canceling my subscription!!! What about traditions?!?!?!?!!?

 

***For those readers who didn't catch it, this is sarcasm. If you hate the game changes that much, find constructive ways to voice your criticism. Ranting on a forum and verbally abusing the Devs in any way is not likely to bring a sympathetic ear. Voice your displeasure and criticism in a better way and it might be listened to in the end. After all, when people are insulted, they tend to stop listening. Not saying you can't be outraged or upset. Just saying, treating the Devs like they are beneath you then being surprised about them not listening seems to me like "cause and effect". Besides, ranting and raving on the Forums and berating the Devs comes across more to me like a temper tantrum of a petulant child than anything else. By all means, voice your displeasure at ANY game changes you feel strongly against, just do it like a grown up and they MIGHT actually listen.

[StarkHelsing]

Galactic Command sucks!!! I mean, I would MUCH rather gear out my toon in max level gear in 2 weeks then NOT be rewarded in anyway for playing end game content!! Who doesn't want to endlessly grind on a main toon, spend credits to rip out mods and move to alts so THEY get geared without actually being played?!?! After all, who needs to learn to play a class when I can simply overgear and get carried by guildies that know how to play?!?!?

 

This Galactic Command system requires me to continue playing and gives me something to work for which is garbage!! I would much rather gear up quickly then spend countless hours posting on the forums, chatting in fleet and Reddit that there's nothing to do!! After all, without Galactic Command, I wouldn't have anything to threaten to cancel my subscription over!!!! I've been posting since RotHC that this game is dying and I'm canceling my subscription!!! What about traditions?!?!?!?!!?

 

***For those readers who didn't catch it, this is sarcasm. If you hate the game changes that much, find constructive ways to voice your criticism. Ranting on a forum and verbally abusing the Devs in any way is not likely to bring a sympathetic ear. Voice your displeasure and criticism in a better way and it might be listened to in the end. After all, when people are insulted, they tend to stop listening. Not saying you can't be outraged or upset. Just saying, treating the Devs like they are beneath you then being surprised about them not listening seems to me like "cause and effect". Besides, ranting and raving on the Forums and berating the Devs comes across more to me like a temper tantrum of a petulant child than anything else. By all means, voice your displeasure at ANY game changes you feel strongly against, just do it like a grown up and they MIGHT actually listen.

 

Constructive criticism or a cacophony of vulgar statements - neither work well here.

[Ahbal]

Funny you say this, as Beta testers gave them feedback as "adults" and yet, they still got ignored? But sure, keep shifting the blame to the community rather than the devs who did not listen to beta feedback. If they were going to "listen" they would have done so with Beta feedback.

[BoySaber]

Communication is poor, almost non existent, between players and customer support and between players and devs. No matter which route you take, result is same. Having no interaction with players is killer of the game first and foremost. But it is nice to see there are people who are optimistic. There probably would not be the immature and angry rants on forums, if they listened the rest of the players at the first place. Edited December 9, 2016 by BoySaber

[Myhkel]

Since I was not a part of Beta, I have no point of reference.

 

But keep in mind, there is a difference between "listening and taking into consideration" over mindlessly doing what you're told. Just because they may not implement a precise change exactly when the community says they should, doesn't mean it doesn't get implemented over time.

[AscendingSky]

Galactic Command sucks!!! I mean, I would MUCH rather gear out my toon in max level gear in 2 weeks then NOT be rewarded in anyway for playing end game content!! Who doesn't want to endlessly grind on a main toon, spend credits to rip out mods and move to alts so THEY get geared without actually being played?!?! After all, who needs to learn to play a class when I can simply overgear and get carried by guildies that know how to play?!?!?

 

This Galactic Command system requires me to continue playing and gives me something to work for which is garbage!! I would much rather gear up quickly then spend countless hours posting on the forums, chatting in fleet and Reddit that there's nothing to do!! After all, without Galactic Command, I wouldn't have anything to threaten to cancel my subscription over!!!! I've been posting since RotHC that this game is dying and I'm canceling my subscription!!! What about traditions?!?!?!?!!?

 

***For those readers who didn't catch it, this is sarcasm. If you hate the game changes that much, find constructive ways to voice your criticism. Ranting on a forum and verbally abusing the Devs in any way is not likely to bring a sympathetic ear. Voice your displeasure and criticism in a better way and it might be listened to in the end. After all, when people are insulted, they tend to stop listening. Not saying you can't be outraged or upset. Just saying, treating the Devs like they are beneath you then being surprised about them not listening seems to me like "cause and effect". Besides, ranting and raving on the Forums and berating the Devs comes across more to me like a temper tantrum of a petulant child than anything else. By all means, voice your displeasure at ANY game changes you feel strongly against, just do it like a grown up and they MIGHT actually listen.

 

1) You don't understand how Galactic Command works at all, if you think it's somehow better than what came before.

 

2) Mass ad hominem attacks, ahoy!

 

3) You know what a 'constructive' form of criticism is? Cancelling our subscriptions. If that's what you want, sure, but don't then complain later when the game shuts down due to lack of income.

[AscendingSky]

Funny you say this, as Beta testers gave them feedback as "adults" and yet, they still got ignored? But sure, keep shifting the blame to the community rather than the devs who did not listen to beta feedback. If they were going to "listen" they would have done so with Beta feedback.

 

Even people who weren't in the closed beta warned EAWAre that RNG was a bad idea. They tried that in 1.0... you know, back when there was a mass exodus of players? Not only did they go to free to play after that, but they got rid of the RNG system because everyone hated it.

 

EAWare had tons of warning and prior experience in this area. They should have known better. But they ignored all of that and went ahead with it anyways. And now they're acting startled at the negative feedback.

 

Whether they'll stick stubbornly to their terrible idea, I don't know. Maybe this will turn into the NGE of TOR and the game will shut down in 2017. Maybe in two months they'll go "Sorry, we're going back to the old system" or "We're adding loot tokens back to bosses in ops/flashpoints so now you have a choice of how to gear up." But by then, it will be too late for me and a lot of other people who are tired of this nonsense.

Edited December 9, 2016 by AscendingSky

[DisIzMe]

Since when sarcasm and strawman are synonyms?

 

Nobody complains that they will not be geared in two weeks. Your "sarcasm" misses the point, your own armor is so shiny that it blinds even yourself.

 

The complains are:

 

1) You can be an end game player that grinds this system for centuries and still not get the gear you need for NIM operations because gear drops are RANDOM. On the other hand you can be stronghold player and have bank full of various set bonus items while needing to buy decorations for credits cause they never drop for you.

 

2) Guilds that run operations cannot schedule hardest mode runs. Not only there are less players to do it, you do not know when your best tank/dps/healer will have good gear and you cannot run through lower mode operations to gear him/her/them/it accordingly.

 

3) All the expansions, besides KOTFE, took relatively long time to gear. And even in KOTFE it wasnt 2 weeks.

 

4) Casual/weekend players that play few hours per week will be at severe disadvantage,much more so than previously. In half a year most people who can grind for 25h/day in PVP will have best gear available while casuals who like to PVP here and there will still have few crappy drops because it takes hour/crate.

Edited December 9, 2016 by DisIzMe

[jauvtus]

In 4.0 gearing was fast. And ppl got to learn and practice NiMs, got to PvP on new toons etc. Just because ppl got geared fast, life hadn't stopped.

Now we have Eternal Grind to get gear to be able to play what we want.

GEAR IS NOT THE GOAL OF THE GAME

I don't know if I can make that any clearer. I don't play swtor because I want 346 rating gear. If 208 was enough for NiMs and ranked, I'd not care. I want to enjoy the game (what enjoyment is left...), but GC stops us from that very thing.

[DisIzMe]

.......Whether they'll stick stubbornly to their terrible idea, I don't know. Maybe this will turn into the NGE of TOR and the game will shut down in 2017. Maybe in two months they'll go "Sorry, we're going back to the old system" or "We're adding loot tokens back to bosses in ops/flashpoints so now you have a choice of how to gear up." But by then, it will be too late for me and a lot of other people who are tired of this nonsense.

 

They will not get rid of those crates. It is preparation to going full maintenance mode when those crates will be purchasable from cartel market.

[Halinalle]

spend credits to rip out mods and move to alts so THEY get geared without actually being played?!?!

 

What year it is?

 

Hint: legacy gear (yes, mainhands and offhands are available)

 

"But all legacy armor set look ugly!?!"

 

Hint: outfit designer

Edited December 9, 2016 by Halinalle

[AscendingSky]

In 4.0 gearing was fast. And ppl got to learn and practice NiMs, got to PvP on new toons etc. Just because ppl got geared fast, life hadn't stopped.

Now we have Eternal Grind to get gear to be able to play what we want.

GEAR IS NOT THE GOAL OF THE GAME

I don't know if I can make that any clearer. I don't play swtor because I want 346 rating gear. If 208 was enough for NiMs and ranked, I'd not care. I want to enjoy the game (what enjoyment is left...), but GC stops us from that very thing.

 

Yes, exactly! Gear is not the end result. Gear is a means to an end: clearing harder content, which is tuned in the assumption you have a certain level of gear with set bonuses. People will not stop playing when they get max gear. They will start going after all those FP and ops achievements they haven't done yet. They will help their friends and guildmates run through content to get them gear too. They'll stop queueing in normal PvP and try out ranked instead.

 

All of that... which is now gated for us behind an RNG grind. No thanks. I don't need a second job.

Edited December 9, 2016 by AscendingSky

[doelow]

In 4.0 gearing was fast. And ppl got to learn and practice NiMs, got to PvP on new toons etc. Just because ppl got geared fast, life hadn't stopped.

Now we have Eternal Grind to get gear to be able to play what we want.

GEAR IS NOT THE GOAL OF THE GAME

I don't know if I can make that any clearer. I don't play swtor because I want 346 rating gear. If 208 was enough for NiMs and ranked, I'd not care. I want to enjoy the game (what enjoyment is left...), but GC stops us from that very thing.

 

I would counter that a steady reward stream, or the possibility of a reward, is a staple of the MMORPG genre actually. Maybe the "goal" of the game isn't gear, but people gearing too quickly does tend to result in "nothing to do" syndrome, because for a good number of people the reward structure of content acts as a prime motivator. You can absolutely give players access to gear too quickly/easily.

[Ahbal]

In 4.0 gearing was fast. And ppl got to learn and practice NiMs, got to PvP on new toons etc. Just because ppl got geared fast, life hadn't stopped.

Now we have Eternal Grind to get gear to be able to play what we want.

GEAR IS NOT THE GOAL OF THE GAME

I don't know if I can make that any clearer. I don't play swtor because I want 346 rating gear. If 208 was enough for NiMs and ranked, I'd not care. I want to enjoy the game (what enjoyment is left...), but GC stops us from that very thing.

 

Yes precisely! Earning the gear is a means to do the much harder content. Its not meant to be the goal we grind endlessly for.

[AscendingSky]

I would counter that a steady reward stream, or the possibility of a reward, is a staple of the MMORPG genre actually. Maybe the "goal" of the game isn't gear, but people gearing too quickly does tend to result in "nothing to do" syndrome, because for a good number of people the reward structure of content acts as a prime motivator. You can absolutely give players access to gear too quickly/easily.

 

Yes, but the problem now is that we're being given a long, randomly rewarded grind we're required to complete in order to... go through the exact same content we've been doing over and over for the past five years. That's not an appealing carrot. That's an ancient carrot buried in the back of the crisper drawer that isn't orange anymore and drips a foul liquid.

Edited December 9, 2016 by AscendingSky

[DisIzMe]

I would counter that a steady reward stream, or the possibility of a reward, is a staple of the MMORPG genre actually. Maybe the "goal" of the game isn't gear, but people gearing too quickly does tend to result in "nothing to do" syndrome, because for a good number of people the reward structure of content acts as a prime motivator. You can absolutely give players access to gear too quickly/easily.

 

How random crates equal steady reward stream? Its totally chaotic reward stream. You do job A to have a possibility of getting shiny item B is steady reward. Doing whatever you want (this is actually good part imo) to get whatever RNG hamsters pull out of their infinite hats (this is actually a bad part) is not.

 

Gearing in KOTFE was a mess, but to fix it by inventing new mess is hardly a good thing. Even in SOR gearing was much better.

[Halinalle]

Way too many got spoiled by 4.0 gearing (just do EV/KP HM and you got best gear in the game without even trying).

[AscendingSky]

Way too many got spoiled by 4.0 gearing (just do EV/KP HM and you got best gear in the game without even trying).

 

I agree the highlighted HM system was a bad idea (at least with EV and KP in the rotation)--especially when added to the fact NiM ops didn't even drop 224 gear! But they could have solved that problem pretty easily by just... not having highlighted operations anymore. RNG is not a solution--it's a whole new problem EAWare are trying to coerce you to buy stuff with real money to make slightly less of a problem.

[jauvtus]

I would counter that a steady reward stream, or the possibility of a reward, is a staple of the MMORPG genre actually. Maybe the "goal" of the game isn't gear, but people gearing too quickly does tend to result in "nothing to do" syndrome, because for a good number of people the reward structure of content acts as a prime motivator. You can absolutely give players access to gear too quickly/easily.

 

I don't want gear handed to me. I don't want to take the chance of BiS taken away from casuals. All I want is that if I work for my gear, earn it, it would mean I get it. This is not the case with GC.

[doelow]

Yes, but the problem now is that we're being given a long, randomly rewarded grind we're required to complete in order to... go through the exact same content we've been doing over and over for the past five years. That's not an appealing carrot. That's an ancient carrot buried in the back of the crisper drawer that isn't orange anymore and drips a foul liquid.

 

For people in your position I think that is a perfectly valid complaint. So then is the problem the Galactic Command, or is it a dearth of new content that players feel motivated to work towards mastering? I think the "standard" needs to move away from "raid", and instead maybe introducing other forms of challenging group play into the game needs to be looked at. Maybe that's what they are trying with the difficulty modes for Uprisings.

[jauvtus]

For people in your position I think that is a perfectly valid complaint. So then is the problem the Galactic Command, or is it a dearth of new content that players feel motivated to work towards mastering? I think the "standard" needs to move away from "raid", and instead maybe introducing other forms of challenging group play into the game needs to be looked at. Maybe that's what they are trying with the difficulty modes for Uprisings.

 

Increasing hp and dps of mobs when you only need to spam AoE is hardly challenging group content.

[doelow]

How random crates equal steady reward stream? Its totally chaotic reward stream. You do job A to have a possibility of getting shiny item B is steady reward. Doing whatever you want (this is actually good part imo) to get whatever RNG hamsters pull out of their infinite hats (this is actually a bad part) is not.

 

Gearing in KOTFE was a mess, but to fix it by inventing new mess is hardly a good thing. Even in SOR gearing was much better.

 

I also said steady possibility of a reward. There are so many instances in gaming where you aren't promised anything persay, but you will at least be given a chance. The Galactic Command system isn't so much an anomaly to gaming as it is an anomaly to this specific game. RNG works. It has a proven track record of hooking people for better or worse. The apparent sentiment is frustration, but the unseen action is people eagerly opening their next Overwatch crate for hope of a shiny.

 

I'm not convinced RNG is the culprit as much as stale content being pushed onto a burnt out playerbase is. Fresh eyes may happily grind away at the Command system because things are still new, and they don't have the cynical (but valid) view that "I've done this a million times. Now I have to go through this grindy gear process just to do it again?" Like I said, I totally get that sentiment, but I also am pretty convinced that grinding, gambling, and RNG are all 3 really addictive things in the right kind of weather.

 

Would be interested to see the reaction to the system if the game launched new FP's, daily zones, raids, pvp arenas, etc alongside the system. I wonder if the influx of new content would have created the right conditions for the system to be accepted more readily. We will never know.

[doelow]

Increasing hp and dps of mobs when you only need to spam AoE is hardly challenging group content.

 

And yet people will still wipe on it.

[AscendingSky]

For people in your position I think that is a perfectly valid complaint. So then is the problem the Galactic Command, or is it a dearth of new content that players feel motivated to work towards mastering? I think the "standard" needs to move away from "raid", and instead maybe introducing other forms of challenging group play into the game needs to be looked at. Maybe that's what they are trying with the difficulty modes for Uprisings.

 

Both. People are trying to defend GC with "You people just want to get the best gear in a week with no effort!" But that's not true. We want to go back to the same stuff we were doing before 5.0 hit. We want to beat our heads against the same walls we were trying to bash down in HMs and NiMs. Many ops groups and guilds were in the midst of trying to clear various ones of those before last week. Unfortunately, EAWare has now jacked up the levels and HP of all the old, creaky content, so now if we want to go back to doing the exact same things we already were before the new expansion went live, we have to get new gear. This is extremely frustrating. We're being asked to grind on a brand new treadmill just to get back to the status quo.

 

And then, to add insult to injury, we don't have any reliable way of getting the gear we need just to do the same things we were doing before last week. It's all random. We can try to tackle the hardest content in the game, spend hours upon hours trying to beat it down, and get the exact same chance of a reward as someone who got into a GSF deathmatch and repeatedly kamikazied against nearby rocks to make the match end faster, or who AFKed through 99% of a PvP match.

 

And again, it's only a chance of a reward. We can't do runs to help our teammates get the gear they need anymore, because all the Command crate drops are random (and usually junk). No one wants to switch out to an alt to fill a needed roll on a raid team, because then you'll never get the gear you want for your main. You can sign up for a HM FP or a HM/NiM operation, get partway through, then have the group collapse, turning it into a complete waste of your time.

 

And all of this, ALL OF THIS, just to do the exact same content we've been doing for the past five years!! The two problems compound eachother into one giant gurgling vortex of suck that has drained away all my motivation to even grind CXP. What's the point? I don't have the time to turn this game into a second job just to gear up my DPS main, to say nothing of gearing up my healer and tank alts I made specifically to support my teams.

Edited December 9, 2016 by AscendingSky

[doelow]

Both. People are trying to defend GC with "You people just want to get the best gear in a week with no effort!" But that's not true. We want to go back to the same stuff we were doing before 5.0 hit. We want to beat our heads against the same walls we were trying to bash down in HMs and NiMs. Many ops groups and guilds were in the midst of trying to clear various ones of those before last week. Unfortunately, EAWare has now jacked up the levels and HP of all the old, creaky content, so now if we want to go back to doing the exact same things we already were before the new expansion went live, we have to get new gear. This is extremely frustrating. We're being asked to grind on a brand new treadmill just to get back to the status quo.

 

And then, to add insult to injury, we don't have any reliable way of getting the gear we need just to do the same things we were doing before last week. It's all random. We can try to tackle the hardest content in the game, spend hours upon hours trying to beat it down, and get the exact same chance of a reward as someone who got into a GSF deathmatch and repeatedly kamikazied against nearby rocks to make the match end faster, or who AFKed through 99% of a PvP match.

 

And again, it's only a chance of a reward. We can't do runs to help our teammates get the gear they need anymore, because all the Command crate drops are random (and usually junk). No one wants to switch out to an alt to fill a needed roll on a raid team, because then you'll never get the gear you want for your main. You can sign up for a HM FP or a HM/NiM operation, get partway through, then have the group collapse, turning it into a complete waste of your time.

 

And all of this, ALL OF THIS, just to do the exact same content we've been doing for the past five years!! The two problems compound eachother into one giant gurgling vortex of suck that has drained away all my motivation to even grind CXP. What's the point? I don't have the time to turn this game into a second job just to gear up my DPS main, to say nothing of gearing up my healer and tank alts I made specifically to support my teams.

 

I personally think removing gear from raid bosses was a bad move. It's really unaesthetic I think to have -no gear- drop from a raid boss. It's like... sort of one of those universals at this point. If you've ever played an MMO ever... you kill a boss... you expect a piece of loot to drop, even if it's not loot for you. It feels like violating some sacred unspoken law by removing gear from raid bosses. That's just my "feeling" about it. I think how something feels to a player is important though, so if it "feels bad" then that's enough for me to critique something.

 

A lot of your post does come full circle back to "no new content" though. I think you eventually approach a point where no matter how good you could tweak this new gear system, the lack of no content to keep people playing is going to kill you. This could be the best gearing system ever by the end of next year, but if there is still a dearth of content that is engaging players, then who cares? That seems to be a very common thread with people who complain about TOR.

 

Your point about people throwing GSF getting the same chance at reward as someone who kills a raid boss is well taken. I think it's a problem. They need to definitely take a look at the risk/reward structure of the game right now in regards to things like that. The system need to FEEL good, but it also needs to serve its practical function. Right now I think it's doing the latter maybe too well, but really coming short on the former.

Edited December 9, 2016 by doelow