RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Fireswraith]

RNG was never the problem..... the problem was how often it's used and the slim-to-none chances of the good stuff ever dropping.

[curulz]

It's comments like that that ( Aowin's )make me wonder how people don't realise they are being trolled.

 

I do believe he is semi taking half of what he says seriously but when he becomes purposely obtuse and comments like the one you quoted it's fairly clearly it's just a means of keeping this topic going for some reason as opposed ot wanting to delve into any actual discussion.

 

Makes for good reading though! When I read the "this is your only warning" I had tears in my eyes

[DarthSpuds]

Makes for good reading though! When I read the "this is your only warning" I had tears in my eyes

 

The ONLY way that "warning" can carry any weight at all is if Aowin is a sock-puppet account for a Bioware employee.

 

Looking back over this thread, would that surprise anyone?

 

All The Best

[Aowin]

Wait they are bringing back stupid separate PvP gear? Where did they say that. I hope this is just a case of wishful thinking on your part because you don't want to PvP or something...

 

Also, as for me unsubbing, well I just got the Galactic Alliance statue which is for maintaining a "continuous subscription since launch" and well, I wonder if this will be a yearly thing now? I'll be finding out. In fact, I will be playing MORE now because finally I don't have to feel like I have to be in a hardcore raid progression guild if I want better gear... I can play my way when I want and if I happen to want to do an ops with my guild, we can as a guild discuss our gear. I can pvp when I want without having to worry about grinding out pvp non-stop for special PvP gear... that's the beauty of this system that so many seem to not get.... you can do WHATEVER YOU WANT in the game and still get gear.

 

Oh, your guild can't do the raid 20 times in a week on different alts and legacy mail the entire top end set over to your main. Is that the problem? Honestly, getting an entire top teir set in 1-2 weeks seems to be the only reason one would hate this system. Play the game, do what you find fun, and the gear will come... If it's all about the gear and only the gear... what happens once you have that full set of 242 in one week? Bored now, moving on? Go to an alt and start over? Just have fun playing the game. The gear will come.

 

Your soliloquy of reason will sadly fall on deaf ears. He is not interested in whether this system actually is a blessing to 85% of the player base. He is only interested in gearing his main and alt characters to BiS within a week of a major expansion release.

 

I have attempted many times to come to a compromise with him and engage in a reasonable discourse only to realize he wasn't interested in any sort of middle ground. Galactic Command is one of the best things BioWare has ever done. He'll never recognize this reality because he simply does not care whether the majority of the player base is happy or not.

 

That is his right, but his perspective is destructive and could be detrimental to the health of the game. Thankfully, BioWare realizes they represent the entire community, not just some of it. As is clear by the design decisions they have made, I fully expect them to continue making decisions that benefit all of us and not just some of us.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Aowin

[VirtualMorrigan]

Your soliloquy of reason will sadly fall on deaf ears. He is not interested in whether this system actually is a blessing to 85% of the player base. He is only interested in gearing his main and alt characters to BiS within a week of a major expansion release.

 

I have attempted many times to come to a compromise with him and engage in a reasonable discourse only to realize he wasn't interested in any sort of middle ground. Galactic Command is one of the best things BioWare has ever done. He'll never recognize this reality because he simply does not care whether the majority of the player base is happy or not.

 

That is his right, but his perspective is destructive and could be detrimental to the health of the game. Thankfully, BioWare realizes they represent the entire community, not just some of it. As is clear by the design decisions they have made, I fully expect them to continue making decisions that benefit all of us and not just some of us.

 

I think that proves it, my dear. You're either a sock-puppet or should take the meds that were prescribed to you. The numbers and "facts" you are pulling out of thin air are really impressive.

[Forren-Midosea]

Aowin, you are a sick person. Go see a doctor please.

[Frenesi]

Aowin, you are a sick person. Go see a doctor please.

 

Careful lol. He will get you banned

[gabigool]

Your soliloquy of reason will sadly fall on deaf ears. He is not interested in whether this system actually is a blessing to 85% of the player base. He is only interested in gearing his main and alt characters to BiS within a week of a major expansion release.

 

The first half of your statement is correct. I am not even slightly interested if this system is a blessing to 85% of the playerbase if it sucks the fun out of the game for anyone else.

 

Not that I believe it is, of course. I certainly do not see anything in game, or here on the forums to suggest your "85%" has any basis in fact. Or reality for that matter. But I am certain you have exactly zero insight into this that I do not. As such, you shouldn't say "a blessing to 85% of the player base" - you should be saying you have no *********** idea.

 

That said, even if this was a blessing for 85% of the playerbase, It could have very easily been implemented in a manner that changed nothing in how PvP or PvE gearing has historically been done. What is the upside of ostracizing 15% of the players aside from the fact you're not included in it? I do not think this game should be pushing anyone away. Period. Personally, I think you have the numbers backwards, but that's just an opinion based on anecdotal evidence and common sense.

 

As for the second part, I'm sorry but saying that about me makes you look stupid. I was anti HHM the day it came out. I want NM loot on NM bosses. I want HM loot on HM bosses. I think EV/KP don't belong in these loot schedules. I am not asking to be geared already. I do believe though, when my team has a NM boss on farm, the team should get a piece of gear off of it. Some of those fights took my team weeks to sort out. I've literally spent over $5M in repairs just getting a few mid-tier teams past Revan, which isn't that difficult of an encounter. That ought to be worth more than a few hundred CXP.

 

Reality is right now, a team benefits more from throwing snowballs than wiping for three hours on a boss before killing it. I am not sure seeing a problem with this is illogical.

 

 

I have attempted many times to come to a compromise with him and engage in a reasonable discourse only to realize he wasn't interested in any sort of middle ground. Galactic Command is one of the best things BioWare has ever done. He'll never recognize this reality because he simply does not care whether the majority of the player base is happy or not.

 

I'm pretty sure you've never presented anything resembling reasonable discourse. You have far larger blinders than I do. I have my opinions, and I try to present them in a logical manner. I do not make up statistics or facts to use as supporting data for my argument, as you do all the time. As you've done in this post, in fact.

 

I wasn't aware you had access to the data showing the happiness of the playerbase. But that won't stop you using that imaginary data as the cornerstone of your argument with me. Your definition of middle ground is agreement with you.

 

I do not pretend to look for middle ground. I call it as I see it. I do not think this game benefits from artificial time sinks gating stale content. I also do not think the game should need them. I believe a studio with this IP ought to be able to produce content that stands on its own, for all playtypes.

 

I have never once - literally, never - suggested making all gear available to everyone is a bad idea. I do believe though that there is nothing inherently broken with allowing PvP players to gear quickly via PvP, or Operations players to gear quickly via Operations. You've tried hard to argue otherwise but I haven't heard anything that made me think you have a valid point, nor have you debunked my point of view with reason.

 

That is his right, but his perspective is destructive and could be detrimental to the health of the game. Thankfully, BioWare realizes they represent the entire community, not just some of it. As is clear by the design decisions they have made, I fully expect them to continue making decisions that benefit all of us and not just some of us.

 

I honestly think it's funny you believe my perspective is destructive as it seems far more inclusive than yours. Regardless, I reply to you for fun, not because I or anyone else takes you seriously. I just get a kick out of seeing how far you'll stretch reality to try to make your point.

[Tsillah]

I honestly think it's funny you believe my perspective is destructive as it seems far more inclusive than yours.

 

QFT. That's the thing I don't get about some of these RNG fans...they just want to exclude people instead of include them.

[DuckKing]

One thing I've noticed over the course of this thread is that every time this thread is ready to die, when it ends up on page 2 or 3 of the forum, I suspect that the OP usually waits till the end of the day to bump it again to make his topic and argument relevant again. This thread lost traction a long time ago... Watch for yourselves, he'll do it again and bump his own thread when it's ready to lose steam. He's going to respond to someone but he'll just repeat the same stuff he's been saying throughout 100+ pages of this thread but types it in a different way. Edited December 24, 2016 by DuckKing

[VirtualMorrigan]

Good point. Maybe that is his purpose after all, so that at least one "positive" thread stays on the first page at all time. In which case I really call sock-puppet.

[DarthSpuds]

Good point. Maybe that is his purpose after all, so that at least one "positive" thread stays on the first page at all time. In which case I really call sock-puppet.

 

The threat Aowin made to another poster earlier in the thread makes sense ONLY if Aowin is a sock-puppet account for a Bioware employee.

 

And look at the title, not "RNG is good for SWTOR" which would be a far easier point to argue than the current "RNG is perfect for SWTOR".

 

The use of perfect tells us three things:

 

1) The thread supports the Dev team unquestionably - "good" would leave room to say "it could work better if they did...", perfect leaves no room at all for questioning the Devs because you simply can not improve on perfect.

 

2) The person making the claim clearly can not be playing the game in the same manner as the rest of us.

 

3) The thread was designed specifically to provoke strong responses, probably so that warnings like we saw earlier can be issued,

 

So, who but the creators of the RNG/CXP grind would think it couldn't be improved upon? Note the first disaster prevention livestream where we were basically told "we want it like and we think it is exciting so screw you".

 

Who but a Bioware employee has the ability to play the game completely differently to how we play and so is totally oblivious to the flaws the game currently has?

 

And if the thread was designed to provoke certain responses with a view to getting players silenced who but a Bioware employee could so silence them?

 

All of the evidence, and I mean ALL OF THE EVIDENCE, points to Aowin being a Bioware sock-puppet.

 

All The Best

[gabigool]

All of the evidence, and I mean ALL OF THE EVIDENCE, points to Aowin being a Bioware sock-puppet.

All The Best

 

It's arguable sure, but I honestly don't think so.

 

And I don't think she's a troll.

 

I honestly just think it takes all kinds to make the world. Most have thought processes that are understandable. Perhaps strange, perhaps wrong, perhaps stupid.... But at least understandable.

 

Reality is though, there are some people whose brains just don't fire the same way. What, to them, is a perfectly rational deductive leap is nonsensical to most.

 

I believe the studio knows perfectly well we do not like this system. I believe they know perfectly well most people do not.

 

But I believe the studio believes only a sustainable number of accounts will be cancelled, and those numbers will be offset by FTPs becoming subscribers and CM purchases such as CXP boosts and the sure-to-be-coming legacy CXP perks. I think this is a monetization program for them, and in no way shape or form is it intended to be more "inclusive". I can't see the need for the studio to really care whether solo players have gear.

 

I believe Aowin just wants people to see her posts and that validates her in some way. I do not see anything compelling in her thought processes, only circular, disjointed squealing. IMO the studio probably cringes, as she does not do much to make the system look better.

 

I get a kick out of her TBH. Because I honestly think she's really trying.

[Sundragon]

Isn't it interesting that your "unsubbed Dec 23" yet you're continuing to post on Dec. 24? So many drama queens that say they are quitting and yet they resubscribe because they all realize that RNG gearing is actually okay.

[DarthSpuds]

Isn't it interesting that your "unsubbed Dec 23" yet you're continuing to post on Dec. 24?

 

Not at all.

 

As anyone who actually knows anything about the game knows you get locked out of the Forums once the forum resets AFTER your subscription expires.

 

Sun ended 23rd December, I'll not be able to post after the next forum reset.

 

All The Best

[benmas]

The fact that bioware is attempting to patch up the cracks with a modified pre 5.0 gearing system should tell you RNG gearing and mindless grinding is anything but good for SWTOR.

 

as for these facts you keep pulling on us, can i have the source please.

[jovianus]

Having just come back from a couple years away and spent a couple of days refamiliarizing myself with the game and the changes, I've come to the conclusion that Biowares target aduience now is people who are:

 

1. The most casual of casual players who don't ever want to have to put any effort of any kind into the game. I mean damn, this game was never terribly difficult, but now the second you get your first comp and set them to healing mode I'm pretty sure you could put your keyboard in your bed and clear entire planets overnight just by rolling around in your sleep.

 

2. People who in spite of their commitment to putting no effort into the game at all are very happy to pay a monthly subscription for the privilege of not having to do anything

 

3. People who in spite of their commitment to not having to put effort into the game are ready willing and happy to continue subscribing indefinitely to mindlessly grind forever for the pure dumb luck RNG gearing system.

 

Now from a business perspective I get that these people are like the Unicorns of MMO customers...but the problem is I suspect that they're about as common.

[MadCuzBad]

The fact that bioware is attempting to patch up the cracks with a modified pre 5.0 gearing system should tell you RNG gearing and mindless grinding is anything but good for SWTOR.

 

as for these facts you keep pulling on us, can i have the source please.

 

Exactly. If it is so awesome why are the forums so toxic and so many people I know leaving? I have been here since paunch and do not remember a time this games player base got so toxic. And I lived thru the dark ages and even that doesn't compare to right now.

[LordArtemis]

RNG gearing, all in, is not bad for SWTOR IMO. It is perhaps bad as a REPLACEMENT for the carrot in hardcore content, but not bad for the game overall.

 

It really depends on what the target audience is.

 

Lets say, for arguments sake, they find some way to provide a path to armor that is acceptable to the majority of hardcore players....but keep the current GC system in place. Some will argue no path exists, and I am not trying to stave off that argument...just bear with me here.

 

Lets say that happens. If the focus of the system then falls on casual players, I think the GC system offers quite a bit to that group.

 

1) Access to gear they would likely never see if they do not participate in end game content (which I contend is likely that most casual players do not). Do they need it? Not likely. Would they like it? I would say that is a pretty safe bet.

 

2) Access to "candy" from time to time as a little bonus, items sometimes they probably would not see without spending credits or coins.

 

3) A way to continue to progress the character "horizontally", which tends to be a favored way to improve characters with the casual group...even if it is really just an illusion at this point, or a gate to more candy.

 

What do casuals like? Well, that is highly subjective of course, but IMO casuals like "candy", they like to progress characters as long as it does not involve hard content, they like story, appearance, a casual playstyle and difficulty level...etc.

 

This system provides that after level cap. IMO that is quite a good fit for this game.

 

The real issue, if folks feel there is one, is that fact that it seems they intended for this system to REPLACE traditional armor acquisition for hardcore players. That was probably where it fell down.

 

IF...and yes, that is likely a big if for some (those that are willing to compromise at any rate)...this system change proves to satiate a good portion of the hardcore community I think the system has real potential moving forward.

 

I suppose we will see.

Edited December 25, 2016 by LordArtemis

[Aowin]

Until we can all respect the opinion of everyone, true solutions will never be made for anyone. My example of the "85% of the player base being satisfied" was hypothetical. The point being made was that the poster in question is not interested in a system that benefits the majority of players. He is interested in a system that uniquely benefits himself. That's perfectly fine for him, but BioWare's target audience is the largest common denominator.

 

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and BioWare is really trying to make a system that benefits most players instead of just the few at the top. It's an admirable cause that deserves execution and I believe it will ultimately lead to a system that most are happy with.

[Tsillah]

Until we can all respect the opinion of everyone, true solutions will never be made for anyone. My example of the "85% of the player base being satisfied" was hypothetical. The point being made was that the poster in question is not interested in a system that benefits the majority of players. He is interested in a system that uniquely benefits himself. That's perfectly fine for him, but BioWare's target audience is the largest common denominator.

Well, I agree with you here expect that I don't think it is possible to make one system that benefits all. Face it. In the past we had gearing based on flash points and operations and also in pvp. Two separate player groups with a wildly different approach to the game and how to play it.

 

Now arguably MMOs tend to see gearing as a part of progression raiding. Keep people busy getting gear so that they can then do a more difficult grade and collect a new set of gear to beat the highest level challenge. As the challenges increase not just with hp and damage but also mechanics, more was required of the players also in terms of timing, coordination and general battlefield awareness.

 

This leaves the solo and casual players a bit on the side lines. Now we can argue all day that these people don't need the top gear but it doesn't change the fact that these players have been left out. Something should've been done for that a long time ago. To be honest, I'm not sure if this GC actually answers their needs. Some have already commented that it's too lengthy for them and they are not expecting to ever get their gear together as such.

 

So really the answer for me would've been a new system for the activities outside of pvp and raids. That would've made sense and GC could've filled that gap. As much as raiders are being accused of being elitist, the argument that casuals don't need the higher rating gear is just as true if not more. Not all raiders are elitist, but they do want to be rewarded for beating more difficult content and wiping against bosses for weeks before you can beat them, might make you feel you've deserved something. Of course the problem begins there when there is nothing new to beat.

 

But I digress. No matter how you look at it, one gearing system to rule them all, is objectively a bad idea in this set up. Warzones have a very different dynamic than raids and so does everything else in this game. If you all want to bring that under one umbrella it's much like saying that blue should be everybody's colour because just like your original favourite colour it is also a colour so you might as well like that one best. It just doesn't add up.

 

In the end, it's not about need. It's about what people want. If solo players want to be able to access better gear, then why not? If raiders want to progress from difficulty to difficulty by gearing up for the next level, why not? If PvP'ers just want to hang in warzones and gain their gear there in a way that doesn't negatively affect the experience, then why not?

 

Now that they implemented a one-size-fits-all solution into the game, we see that it doesn't do what it's supposed to. Logically they could've figured this out before implementing it but there it is. And with 5.1 they will implement a separate gearing system again for pvp and for operations. Of course they have to force GC into it or their targets will look bad for GC as a system, so we get command tokens. A completely superfluous currency that from my viewpoint has no other purpose than to create a link between gearing in ops or pvp and the GC system. This link then allows them to attribute any success to their GC implementation.

 

But ok if that's the balance that needs to be struck between the different wishes of different groups, including BWA themselves, then ok.

 

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and BioWare is really trying to make a system that benefits most players instead of just the few at the top. It's an admirable cause that deserves execution and I believe it will ultimately lead to a system that most are happy with.

The problem with the needs of the many vs the few, is that every decision you make has those few that will leave the game. If that group is too big or such decisions happen too often then it's bad for the game. Massive changes like this are a risk. Now are they, as you say, "really trying to make a system that benefits most players"? I don't believe that's it. It seems more like they are trying to make something that's easier for them to control and maintain. You choose to believe they are, but that's your view and there is no telling if you are actually right.

 

With 5.1 we already see a (partial) return to pvp and operations gearing. That's a huge philosophical change that already proves that their intent to make one clean system for all, didn't work. So a hybrid is being proposed as much as to accomodate players as to save face for themselves.

 

I think it's laudable if they want to create a game that is fun and rewarding for all types of play. I'm with you there. I just don't think that a single system will be able to that and I'm also not convinced that the changes they are proposing came out of the goodness of their heart but rather because too many people were unsubbing. Not a majority of players, but enough to be problematic.

 

But I agree that the approach should be about including people and not excluding. There have been a fair few voices here on the forum that are called white knights or defenders, who in fact have strongly advocated an exclusive approach. Not accusing you of that here, but most of the defenders have been quite clear with accusations of entitlement and "put up or shut up" type comments that they are happy to see people leave rather than achieve some concensus.

 

It's mostly the accusation that have angered me and kept me posting a lot than their actual opinion on RNG gearing even though I was proposing a more inclusive approach, where SWTOR would be a game that considers more player groups and interests.

 

Accusations of laziness, entitlement are not helpful in that. Things like entitlement exists on both sides of this conflict anyway, but they cannot be generalisations or based on false assumptions and that's been happening a lot.

 

So if we really want to be inclusive then the game should have alternatives. That's a basic reality that is so simple that I do not get that BWA thought they could bypass that with this system. We'll see how good 5.1 will be but it will at least be a step in the right direction for being more inclusive. I just think BWA are afraid to go fair enough because they are hell bent on proving that GC is success. I would prefer that pvp, operations and general pve would have their separate but compatible systems and that GC can be that third one. But BWA wants to link everything to GC so there we are.

 

I look forward to SWTOR being more friendly to a greate majority, because the minority shouldn't be too big or it will cost the game too much in players and revenue. Even if the game survives as I expect, it's still not a good thing if it survives with a good chunk of players less. It endangers future investment resources and limit the output of the game even more.

[VirtualMorrigan]

Thread pushing again, Aowin?

[Sargrith]

Until we can all respect the opinion of everyone, true solutions will never be made for anyone. My example of the "85% of the player base being satisfied" was hypothetical.

 

No it was a lie. It was a way for you to claim you speak for the majority. You have no respect for other people's opninions and by constantly reviving this thread you show that. You want to make sure your opinion is always in people's face no matter its value.

 

The point is clear. You don't care about facts, other people's opinions, or being part of honest dialog. I think people get that. To other posters I think he's gotten enough attention lets stop with responding to his rant and let him have the singular honor of fluffing this thread.

[Aowin]

...

 

People are frustrated. Emotions are high. Feelings are still too raw. There is hostility from both sides, the "white knights" and the "elitists." Both side have arguments with merit, but often how they are trying to articulate them is wrong and exclusive.

 

Galactic Command is a system that will require refining and tweaking. While it's still not ideal for all playstyles, I do believe it is ultimately better than what we had in 4.0. Perhaps BioWare went too far into trying to create inclusion, but I can understand the rationale for wanting to have more control over gear distribution and the time sink that it requires.

 

Change was coming. As with all MMORPGs, they have to grow and evolve over time. Whether that change is seen as a blessing or a curse is a matter of opinion. What I do know is that BioWare genuinely wants to do the best it can to please everybody. However, we have to realize resources and financial limitations will always be a factor, forcing BioWare to have to prioritize and choose.

 

As I've been saying from the start, Galactic Command was just the foundation. There are plenty of more phases coming and I don't see 5.1 being the ultimate solution as it's still not ideal for those who aren't interested in operations or warzones. BioWare is doing this the right way by waiting, collecting feedback, and seeing how the player base, as a whole, interacts with these systems. From that knowledge BioWare will tweak and refine where necessary.

[Kyuuu]

RNG is not fine I have gone from 35 to 95 which now tier 2 and never seen a single purple gear item, relic, set piece.

 

2 if the set peice I have on that toon took set peices from another toon.

 

RNG is not FINE