RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Aowin]

I'm sorry but I highly doubt gearing pre 5.0 was a big, or even any kind of reason for a player to quit. Lack of content, deviation from their original design and an unwillingness to continue investing in their game the way they did with the base game, that's what has caused a decline. Along with the general turn over you tend to see in MMO's. Had they continued on pumping out content the way they did for the base game (ie; the many different story arcs, the ops, the flashpoints etc) and kept that pace up all the way until now without minimizing their own effort.. I'd bet the subscriber numbers would be a lot higher.

 

I'm not just referring to gearing. I'm referring to the focus on how gear was managed, the focus on operations, the focus on flashpoints, the focus on dailies, all of this content that was "more of the same" slowly dwindled down the population of the game. Folks got tired of "more of the same" and came to find SWTOR more as a mediocre F2P MMO than anything else.

 

Thus, BioWare's sudden pivot back to story. KOTFE was a soft reboot of the game and was meant appeal to a new audience as well as entice former players to return. BioWare abandoned the operation/flashpoint/daily focus because it simply was not enough to keep the game running. Those communities weren't as large as many believe, thus BioWare changed tactics.

 

KOTFE was far more successful than SWTOR's previous expansions in terms of player turnout. As a result, BIoWare has maintained that approach of focusing on story, but they are trying to do a better job of providing group content. Galactic Command was just a clever means of cutting down on the unnecessary complexity of gear progression and unifying it into one, succinct interface.

[curulz]

Had BioWare just left things as they were in 4.0, the community would have continued to shrink and eventually there would only be a small, dedicated core left for the game. Obviously, Lucasfilm, EA, and BioWare have major expectations for this MMO. They aren't just interested in supporting a small community, thus change was inevitable. Like any rational business, they continue to to try and appeal to a wider audience to continue to grow and flourish.

 

OK, but I asked how long you thought the game would still be viable w/o the changes. few months? years? what was your estimate?

[Aowin]

OK, but I asked how long you thought the game would still be viable w/o the changes. few months? years? what was your estimate?

 

Define "viable." As I already stated, this game would dwindle down to a very small community. It would still likely exist, even today, but there would hardly be anyone playing it. Most of the folks at BioWare Austin would then be laid off by EA while a very small team is maintained for maintenance purposes and small Cartel Market updates. No new, substantial content would ever be introduced into the game and EA would make what little money it could off the cash shop until Lucasfilm decides to have EA make another Star Wars MMO based off the new films. At that point in time, EA would cut its losses, shut down SWTOR, and promote the new Star Wars MMO as a replacement for SWTOR.

[RudeDog]

The point that was being made is the "world isn't ending" and the "majority of players" aren't quitting the game. A few vocal members of the community are, but that happens with every major update and expansion. As always, it's business as usual and SWTOR will continue to live on.

 

Right....

 

City of Heroes was a much better game than SWTOR in almost every aspect and they are gone.

[Aowin]

Right....

 

City of Heroes was a much better game than SWTOR in almost every aspect and they are gone.

 

I didn't actually like City of Heroes, so I disagree with that sentiment (SWG was far better in my opinion). Regardless, how is that relevant to anything? Superhero MMOs were over-saturating the genre (Champions Online as well as DCUO and Marvel Heroes). If you want to blame anyone, blame NCSoft (publisher) and Cryptic (developer). EA doesn't tend to shut down its MMOs as games like Ultima Online and Dark Age of Camelot are still online after 15+ years of operation.

[curulz]

Define "viable." As I already stated, this game would dwindle down to a very small community. It would still likely exist, even today, but there would hardly be anyone playing it.

 

don't worry about it, I was asking to see the actual time frame you put on the game's lifespan w/o GG/RNG. no biggie, was just curious

[Aowin]

don't worry about it, I was asking to see the actual time frame you put on the game's lifespan w/o GG/RNG. no biggie, was just curious

 

Ah, well I answered your question then. Regardless of whether the game had this system or not, it would still exist. As I said, EA does not have a history of shutting down its MMOs. However, I do believe the community would be a lot smaller and that major updates and expansions would likely cease due to half of the studio being laid off.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Ah, well I answered your question then. Regardless of whether the game had this system or not, it would still exist. As I said, EA does not have a history of shutting down its MMOs. However, I do believe the community would be a lot smaller and that major updates and expansions would likely cease due to half of the studio being laid off.

 

All that based on their not being GC meaning you truly believe the game is better off with it population wise with it?

 

Wow, you are deluded.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Wow, more content you call it "more of the same". it's an MMO. Now i'm sorry if you except totally unique content all the time, you should go play a single player. True dailies are boring as f*** and doing the same w/z or same FP over and over MIGHT get repetitive. But see, seeing as how it's not a single player game we do need that repetitiveness so we can kill that mob for that quest (cause hei if it goes away after 1 of us kills it, the others will be in trouble), do the daily or heroics quests after every reset if that's what you enjoy to get more $$ to buy gear or comp gifts or wutever it is u need them credits for. Or farm enough currency for gear upgrades.

Now i did indeed stay up until 2:30 AM to actually watch that stream. Can i say it was a time well spent and i'm satisfied with the answers i got? of course not. :eek:

Why? well... let's seee....... because they're so so good at skirting around things a lot of people want to know. did u see how many people were spamming about NEW ops? they only said something about maybe making ops harder and then went to talk about uprisings. even though that certainly wasn't a question that was asked so much. They mentioned RNG and said they were gathering data........ well, how about they explain how this RNG works and why there such dumb fluff as reputation tokens in those boxes instead of a bigger change to get a piece of gear. And yes, i did ask about that every 60-90 seconds.

It's annoying how they'd rather talk about another reskin of a taun-taun mount than what people are spamming chat about really.

[Aowin]

All that based on their not being GC meaning you truly believe the game is better off with it population wise with it?

 

Wow, you are deluded.

 

My point is that pre-4.0 the main issue with TOR was that the content it was constantly developing (operations, flashpoints, dailies, etc.) was not stabilizing the population of the game. Based on that consistent attrition of players, the game would have continued that path until barely anyone was left. Change was inevitable and Galactic Command was a way of encouraging new players to try the game and make it appealing for them.

[Ceinwyn]

<snip> ... Why? well... let's seee....... because they're so so good at skirting around things a lot of people want to know. did u see how many people were spamming about NEW ops? they only said something about maybe making ops harder and then went to talk about uprisings. even though that certainly wasn't a question that was asked so much. They mentioned RNG and said they were gathering data........ well, how about they explain how this RNG works and why there such dumb fluff as reputation tokens in those boxes instead of a bigger change to get a piece of gear. And yes, i did ask about that every 60-90 seconds.

It's annoying how they'd rather talk about another reskin of a taun-taun mount than what people are spamming chat about really.

 

They had a schedule of topics for that stream and were never going to stray from it. The chat would have had zero effect on what they said.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

My point is that pre-4.0 the main issue with TOR was that the content it was constantly developing (operations, flashpoints, dailies, etc.) was not stabilizing the population of the game. Based on that consistent attrition of players, the game would have continued that path until barely anyone was left. Change was inevitable and Galactic Command was a way of encouraging new players to try the game and make it appealing for them.

and also encouraging other people to pack up it seems cause i've certainly noticed a big uprise of #unsub during the stream lol. and certainly enough of bye-bye threads on the forums. Thing is, they can't please everyone. and while they may try, the longer they try, the more players will leave after they finish the story (which htis time was very good ) and realize that oh sh**, now i'll spend like half a year grinding this CXP, that sounds like... not really fun AT ALL>

[Hichitsuki-hime]

They had a schedule of topics for that stream and were never going to stray from it. The chat would have had zero effect on what they said.

 

i do realize that, it's just a shame that even when they touch on a topic that we wanted to hear, it was in such a way that they still managed to not say anything new/useful lol

[DarthWoad]

My point is that pre-4.0 the main issue with TOR was that the content it was constantly developing (operations, flashpoints, dailies, etc.) was not stabilizing the population of the game. Based on that consistent attrition of players, the game would have continued that path until barely anyone was left. Change was inevitable and Galactic Command was a way of encouraging new players to try the game and make it appealing for them.

 

Wait till these new players find out there hasn't been a new raid in over 2 years and that they have a massive grind ahead of them in the hopes they get gear from random lock boxes.

 

Lets be real about this. Every MMO needs to add new content to keep players and to bring new players in. Even WOW loses players, but every time they add an expansion it goes up again.

 

SWTOR can't just magically keep a stable population without adding new playable MMO content to do. We've seen that with all the dead servers and mass transfers: People want to play with people. I'd wager that most of the people playing this game care more about the social/multiplayer side than the single player story side.

[Ceinwyn]

i do realize that, it's just a shame that even when they touch on a topic that we wanted to hear, it was in such a way that they still managed to not say anything new/useful lol

 

It's a talent

[DarthWoad]

The nay-sayers who say the system is abhorrent and has ruined the game are those who believe they are entitled to the best gear immediately.

 

So anyone who doesn't like the current system are just those who feel entitled to the best gear instantly?

 

Do you know how ridiculous that statement is? I'd even go as far as saying that's insulting to a lot of people. I would much rather work for my gear using skill than grind a rank just to open random lockboxes thanks.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

So anyone who doesn't like the current system are just those who feel entitled to the best gear instantly?

 

Do you know how ridiculous that statement is? I'd even go as far as saying that's insulting to a lot of people. I would much rather work for my gear using skill than grind a rank just to open random lockboxes thanks.

 

much truth. very wow. such statement. :eek:

lol i think i've seen too many doge meme haha:D:D

but seriously, i've tried to explain it to him, but i think it's not gonna make any difference >.> he's set in his ways lol

[MeNaCe-NZ]

My point is that pre-4.0 the main issue with TOR was that the content it was constantly developing (operations, flashpoints, dailies, etc.) was not stabilizing the population of the game. Based on that consistent attrition of players, the game would have continued that path until barely anyone was left. Change was inevitable and Galactic Command was a way of encouraging new players to try the game and make it appealing for them.

 

And we have a smaller population now without the usual boost we have seen in the past from an expansion launch so you really don't have a clue what you're on about.

 

Basically, you are making this up as you go along.

[peter_plankskull]

Well done Aowin, impressive show, at this rate your going to beat MCB. Ill be waiting for that 1000th post.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So anyone who doesn't like the current system are just those who feel entitled to the best gear instantly?

 

Do you know how ridiculous that statement is? I'd even go as far as saying that's insulting to a lot of people. I would much rather work for my gear using skill than grind a rank just to open random lockboxes thanks.

 

Pretty sure at this stage he is just trolling for whatever reason to keep this topic bumped. It's the old MadCuzBad / MaximumOwnage tactics ...

 

I'm done after this post bumping this clickbait thread.

[Aowin]

And we have a smaller population now without the usual boost we have seen in the past from an expansion launch so you really don't have a clue what you're on about.

 

Basically, you are making this up as you go along.

 

KOTFE was actually the most popular expansion to date in terms of player turnout and KOTET is likely performing quite similarly.

 

KOTET will likely have greater longevity than KOTFE thanks to Galactic Command and how appealing it will be for many newcomers. The mistake KOTFE made was lacking longevity and staying power, in large part because gear progression was far too fast for veterans and newcomers largely did not understand it due to how convoluted and segmented gear used to be.

[peter_plankskull]

KOTFE was actually the most popular expansion to date in terms of player turnout and KOTET is likely performing quite similarly.

 

TOR status says otherwise. With the exception of one day, December 4th, there's barely a blip compared to KOTFE.

 

http://www.torstatus.net/begeren-colony/history/7d#!/the-harbinger/history/30d

[Aowin]

TOR status says otherwise. With the exception of one day, December 4th, there's barely a blip compared to KOTFE.

 

http://www.torstatus.net/begeren-colony/history/7d#!/the-harbinger/history/30d

 

I question the accuracy of these graphs. I've been on every North American server. TOR Status would have one believe that all servers have approximately the same amount of activity in the last 30 days. As an example, I know for a fact that Jung Ma, The Bastion, and Prophecy of the Five are dead servers. Yet, Harbinger, which has hundreds of players online at all times of the day, is somehow just barely more populated? You cannot convince me that Harbinger is considered a "light population" server. The server literally had two rollbacks within the last few days due to the server being overloaded with players.

 

I think I'll let BioWare's metrics decide the success of this expansion and not some third party tool that is making broad estimates.

[peter_plankskull]

I question the accuracy of these graphs. I've been on every North American server. TOR Status would have one believe that all servers have approximately the same amount of activity in the last 30 days. As an example, I know for a fact that Jung Ma, The Bastion, and Prophecy of the Five are dead servers. Yet, Harbinger, which has hundreds of players online at all times of the day, is somehow just barely more populated? You cannot convince me that Harbinger is considered a "light population" server. The server literally had two rollbacks within the last few days due to the server being overloaded with players.

 

I think I'll let BioWare's metrics decide the success of this expansion and not some third party tool that is making broad estimates.

 

It's not from them being overloaded lol, it's from bugs. Regardless of accuracy on statistics, they haven't changed since KOTFE released and still use the same data gathering method as before. Regardless if the parameters are off, there's less than players than KOTFE.

[Aowin]

It's not from them being overloaded lol, it's from bugs. Regardless of accuracy on statistics, they haven't changed since KOTFE released and still use the same data gathering method as before. Regardless if the parameters are off, there's less than players than KOTFE.

 

Have you been on Harbinger? The servers have been packed recently. Yes, there are some technical mishaps. However, the server has just been incredibly active at all times of the day since the expansion released.

 

Again, BioWare would be the best judge of that. What is definitely clear is BioWare is looking to appeal to a new audience as it doesn't seem to be able to rely on its old audience anymore. We'll have to see just how successful BioWare is in appealing to new players.