TrixxieTriss Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Armoring 240 vs 234 234 armoring (Versatile Armoring 52) Mastery: 7428 Endurance: 8892 Power: 3944 Critical: 2190 Alacrity: 1821 Bonus Damage: 3545.4 Bonus Healing: 2559.5 Damage Reduct: 29.12 240 armoring (Advance Versatile Armoring 51) Mastery: 7430 (+2) Endurance: 8886 (-6) Power: 3937 (-5) Critical: 2184 (-6) Alacrity: 1817 (-4) Bonus Damage: 3544.2 Bonus Healing: 2558.6 Damage Reduct: 29.21 (+.10) Conclusion: 234 > 240 armoring. 240 armoring is bolstering down? What? Edit: Note please be aware that this might be based on my gear. Maybe bolster have reached its tipping point. It is the only thing I can think of that would result in a bolstering down of an armoring with a higher tier This is how Bolster has always worked. Once you get that hard cap stat point, you will start to Bolster down. The difference is before it used to bolster expertise down. With expertise removed now, it will be other stats bolstered down. At least we know what lvl the cap is now and I have to say I'm rather pleased it isn't much higher or pvp would have gone back to the gear vs skill scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 This is how Bolster has always worked. Once you get that hard cap stat point, you will start to Bolster down. The difference is before it used to bolster expertise down. With expertise removed now, it will be other stats bolstered down. At least we know what lvl the cap is now and I have to say I'm rather pleased it isn't much higher or pvp would have gone back to the gear vs skill scenario. then there would be really no point of getting 240's/242's if they're doing nothing for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 still better than the 208's I assume though, right? This is giving me such a headache. I tested a 208 armoring and they are actually bolstering up with my current gear. You lose slightly more armor around .30 or so but the gain in Alacrity/Crit is kinda huge. I am going to do more testing today if I have time to get to the bottom of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) This is how Bolster has always worked. Once you get that hard cap stat point, you will start to Bolster down. The difference is before it used to bolster expertise down. With expertise removed now, it will be other stats bolstered down. At least we know what lvl the cap is now and I have to say I'm rather pleased it isn't much higher or pvp would have gone back to the gear vs skill scenario. There was large speculation that there was going to be a point where bolster declined with higher level gear. I honestly expected it sooner. We might have found that around 230-240 gear is the sweet spot. What I don't understand is how there is still a pretty decent incline to my other pieces within my gear when replacing them with 240s yet, once I put in a 240 armoring I had a pretty massive down bolster. This is the first time in my gear where a 240 piece has down bolstered me (discarding relics cuz they are bugged) which is huge. I am going to do more investigating today if I have time but it's safe to say that we might have found bolsters tipping point. Edited January 10, 2017 by kissingaiur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 then there would be really no point of getting 240's/242's if they're doing nothing for you That's the point of bolster. The point is to get everyone, no matter their gear a certain stat equilibrium. The tricky part is to found out where it is so we can all get the full benefits of bolster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Equilibrium is fine. But slotting the highest tier mods should never be an actual downgrade under bolster. That's just stupid. Of course bolster has *always* been stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Equilibrium is fine. But slotting the highest tier mods should never be an actual downgrade under bolster. That's just stupid. Of course bolster has *always* been stupid. From doing all this testing I can tell you one thing, their equation for bolster is terrible and bugged. Prime example is relics where you have 230+ relics down bolstering at random rates compared to 208s lol. The second I think I found out how the bolster works it always surprises me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 I decided I am going to conclude further testing of bolster testing till 5.1. Seeing how I am starting to down bolster with higher level gear it is getting rather complicated. One of my issues is with how RNG the gearing system is since I have a heavy mix of all gear tiers. To get full clarity of the point in which bolster starts to decline, I need to have a full base of gear that is the same tier. My plan for 5.1 is to buy all the 230, 234, 236 etc full sets and test them as a set compared to each other. The plan is to keep testing all sets till I see a large decline in stats, from there we can start to min/max with bolster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I decided I am going to conclude further testing of bolster testing till 5.1. Seeing how I am starting to down bolster with higher level gear it is getting rather complicated. One of my issues is with how RNG the gearing system is since I have a heavy mix of all gear tiers. To get full clarity of the point in which bolster starts to decline, I need to have a full base of gear that is the same tier. My plan for 5.1 is to buy all the 230, 234, 236 etc full sets and test them as a set compared to each other. The plan is to keep testing all sets till I see a large decline in stats, from there we can start to min/max with bolster. /like since there is no system for it, lol It will be really unfortunate if 240/242's are useless thanks to bolster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Thanks again for taking the time and expense to do this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I decided I am going to conclude further testing of bolster testing till 5.1. Seeing how I am starting to down bolster with higher level gear it is getting rather complicated. One of my issues is with how RNG the gearing system is since I have a heavy mix of all gear tiers. To get full clarity of the point in which bolster starts to decline, I need to have a full base of gear that is the same tier. My plan for 5.1 is to buy all the 230, 234, 236 etc full sets and test them as a set compared to each other. The plan is to keep testing all sets till I see a large decline in stats, from there we can start to min/max with bolster. What I find most frustrating with the bolster system, and it's always been this way is sometimes a higher quality item will actually bolster LESS than a lower quality item. I am no mathematician or game developer, but wouldn't it make sense that the bolster system would recognize what item is a higher quality item and bolster it above the lesser quality item? Shouldn't there be an across-the-board numbers chart that bolsters consistently every item equally? What formula do they have hidden behind the scenes that doesn't do this? If I am wearing 208s, in no way should it bolster BETTER than ANY higher quality item and that's what happens now. You have higher rated items that bolster for LESS than lower rated items. You shouldn't have to wonder if you have mixed tier items what would bolster better or worse, it should be clear as day judging by which items are higher quality and which are lesser. Either make the system bolster consistently or simply make everything bolster exactly the same ffs. Iif the devs can't fricking figure out their own mathematical formula for bolster they should just bolster all items to be the same across the board. This way, at least then you know everyone is on equal footing and no one has figured out the magical formula that will give them a significant advantage over others due to an inconsistent bolster system that does not work in a sensible manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flusssaeure Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I think the most interesting question now is Power or Mastery for DPS? According to Bant's calculations once you hit which looks like the soft cap of crit 1900 rating, he goes straight into Mastery over Power. One of my friends asked him what his thoughts were if the stat pool was bigger, what should DPS put stats into, and it was Mastery. Sorry for not noticing this earlier and having to go back to page 4, but either you or your friend missed an if in Bant's answer. Is is not the augment itself that makes the difference it is the sage / sorcerer class buff that makes the Mastery augment better than the Power augment because the class buff increases your Mastery but not your Power. So if you havn't unlocked the sage / sorcerer class buff in your legacy by finishing chapter 2 of the sage or sorcerer class story and you play something else than a sage or a sorcerer Bant's statement that Mastery augments are better than Power augments does not apply. Bant's numbers are targeted fot high end raiders and because of that implies that you have all buff that you can get unlocked this includes class buffs and datacrons and companion unlocks. After the PVP bolster also affects new players you can argue if everyone reading this guide does have all these unlocks. If they havn't this unlocks they might buy the wrong augments because they don't know that they are not meating the requirement to make it better. However if you following Bant's numbers you would know that this was already the case in 4.X, but it was largely ignored by the PVP community. In that regard you might argue that it was noticeable that all main theocrafters were focussed on PVE and because of that were largely ignored by PVP players. Mayby your bolster guide does help in that regard to bring some gearing information that were already known by the PVElers to more regocnition in the PVP community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eksenia Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) I haven't read the entire OP 'cause lazy, but it appears that using old 208 with set bonus is completely fine in lvl 70 WZ. Is that a correct assessment? If yes, when to start exchanging gear? Edited January 11, 2017 by Eksenia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Many thanks for all the testing you've done, and will do in the future. Much appreciated. Edited January 11, 2017 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I haven't read the entire OP 'cause lazy, but it appears that using old 208 with set bonus is completely fine in lvl 70 WZ. Is that a correct assessment? If yes, when to start exchanging gear? that would be a yes, and change out when you have full sets of 230's for minimal increases, 234's except for relics, 240's/242's are not known for sure but appear to be bolstering down from other tiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 that would be a yes, and change out when you have full sets of 230's for minimal increases, 234's except for relics, 240's/242's are not known for sure but appear to be bolstering down from other tiers. Correction: 240 Enhancements and Mods bolstered up. HPS/DPS increase. After I put all of them in, 208 armorings seemed to be better then 230+ armorings. I am guessing it's because we reached the bolster tipping point with gear rating. 240-242 relics are not tested yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eksenia Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Relics stay at 208 or 230? Thanks a lot guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Relics stay at 208 or 230? Thanks a lot guys. 208 and 230 relics are comparable. I personally feel like the 208 are slightly better for than the 230 but they are very close in effectiveness. Right now I have tested 208 vs. 228 vs. 230 vs. 236 relics and found majority of the relics are worse than than 208 and 230 (most likely a bug and I sent in a ticket for it). What makes the 208 hard to compare is that it bolsters your mastery by a 80-100 increase. The difference in 208 vs. 230: 208: lower proc + around 88 mastery gain 230: higher proc (25-30 average power in a match depending how much it's proced) + 50 crit rating So the real question is what do you want? 88 Mastery or 30 average power (from proc) + 50 crit. From a DPS/HPS perspective they are comparable, it's just what you personally value more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eksenia Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 If I could give you a "like", I would've. Thanks man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Yeah, I wish this thread could be stickied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 There is a lot of talk about relics that are not procing in PvP, 230/240s. Yesterday I tested 234 and 236 relics which both proced in PvP. Can someone confirm that 230 proc (the one which you get out of the crates)? I would test this myself but I wasn't fortunate enough to have the RNG Gods to honor me with one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbleton Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 There is a lot of talk about relics that are not procing in PvP, 230/240s. Yesterday I tested 234 and 236 relics which both proced in PvP. Can someone confirm that 230 proc (the one which you get out of the crates)? I would test this myself but I wasn't fortunate enough to have the RNG Gods to honor me with one. I can confirm this. I watch buffs, I've had 230 234 and 236 all procing. Havent gotten a 240 yet and the 242 relic I got was PVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 I can confirm this. I watch buffs, I've had 230 234 and 236 all procing. Havent gotten a 240 yet and the 242 relic I got was PVE. Thank you. Maybe the ones who say 230 relics don't proc in PvP have the crafted relics. Some of the crafted ones will say that they don't work in PvP. I also heard reports 240s don't proc as well but I have yet to encounter someone with one for me to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teclado Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Maybe the ones who say 230 relics don't proc in PvP have the crafted relics. I'm thinking this is the case. My Merc healer got a 230 Serendipitous Assault relic from a Command crate. It procs in pvp just fine. My experience is that the only relics to not proc in pvp are the ones that specifically say they do not proc in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I've had the combat medic belt and pants for awhile now..... guess which "new" items I continuously get out of crates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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