CXP rewards and repeatable chapters.

[Andryah]

Trying to hide personal attacks behind generalizations doesn't make them not personal attacks.

 

Twist and manipulate all you want. Call into question my mental state. I know exactly what you're doing. It's pretty disgusting, but I know what it is. And it's on display for everyone to see.

 

Yes yes... making statements about the general negative tenor and tone in the forum about an upcoming expac is "personal" and "an attack". LMAO.

 

Feel better now?

Edited November 4, 2016 by Andryah

[Ralei]

There is nothing Eric could do to be called "good" by the players. Nothing. But everyone here would crap their pants if they had to play on a live stream like he did.

[Andryah]

This is different to what you are describing.

He is a public face for this game, if he doesn't even have a basic understanding with a class that he chose to play how can he properly relay requested/needed/.... changes to said class to the coders? You as a company owner even if you are not a coder but hired people for coding you would know exactly what u want out of that coded software and how should it work.

 

I disagree. He is the community manager whose roles and responsibilities are to communicate with the community and act as a bridge between players and studio. Now.. you can make a case that he is bad at his job in this regard, and given the poor communications from the studio year over year... you could make a good case (if you ignore objective context on what his role is and constraints that are placed on him by legal and marketing).

 

His job may include demoing a run through of game content in advance of release. But to make the claim that he has to be an expert (on par with the best players) of the game is in my view just a convenient pedestal from which to take swipes are Eric. Snarky comments along these lines serve no productive purpose other then to take a swing at the studio by taking swipes at Erics skills playing the game.

 

Maybe it is deliberate on his part.. lest he offend any players by showing his true leetness and making them feel bad.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Andryah

[casirabit]

1)

4) How many of us have at least one rank 50 or near 50 companions on multiple toons by this point? Musco's Lana was 20

 

I have one rank 50 companion on all my alts and that is my nexu.

[Andryah]

I have one rank 50 companion on all my alts and that is my nexu.

 

I do the same, though I vary it by character... not all using a Nexu. I'm fond of the probe droid and the Ginx as well. Most of them though, I stop at influence level 40. The last ten levels is approaching diminishing returns in my view, so I only have a 50 cap on my main.

 

By keeping a single high influence level companion that is one of the animal or mechanical CM companions, you are never without a high power companion to use, because these are never blocked unless all companion use is blocked during a mission. Even when forced to play a particular companion, I have found that you can still whip out the high influence companion to handle a particularly tough fight. You just may have to switch back to complete a dialog or mission activity afterwards.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Andryah

[AllisonLightning]

What does that have to do with anything though?

 

I was the business owner for a number of web properties that were customer facing over my career, and I was never as good as my customers at using and applying them. I also project managed complex IT projects, even though I could not code or QA with the proficiency of the professionals actually hired to do so. Then again.. they could not project manage their way out of a box either.. so it was a win for everyone, me, the developers, and the company.

 

Honestly.. if Eric was so good at playing.. that players took notice and lauded him for it... I would be concerned.. because that would indicate to me that he was in fact spending more time playing the game then doing his job as community manager.

 

I'm going to interject and classify this game as a creative, evolving project and the people responsible for communicating between us and the developers should absolutely be into this game. It's like writing, or your own work, how can anyone like what you're producing, if you don't enjoy and get into it yourself. Eric needs to effectively communicate because it directly impacts what each side hears on a, 'it might not be your product, but for your client, you need to learn and know as much about it as possible' rationale.

 

I won't insist Eric doesn't enjoy the game- my brother loves Mass Effect but he plays it in the most cringeworthy 'I have no idea how to play my class' way imaginable. But when his lack of knowledge gets in the way of communication then that is a problem because he won't understand why a certain class that are useful in warzones have one of the lowest DPS values in PvE or that a complaint that gets headline attention is just loud voices on the forums and aren't reflected in game.

 

To me, I think it's probably one of the biggest causes behind a change that needs to get fixed after an over correction because the communication lines are going through someone who should be playing the game more.

[Khevar]

Yes yes... making statements about the general negative tenor and tone in the forum about an upcoming expac is "personal" and "an attack".

Andryah, wouldn't it improve the "general negative tenor and tone in the forum" to debate the issues without making further negative comments about other forum posters?

 

(This is a legitimate question, by the way. I'm not trying to poke you with a stick to get a reaction.)

 

I don't disagree about the tone of negativity. But in the past, whenever I've personally followed suit and responded in a negative manner, it's simply made things worse. Those times when I've avoid comments about people, and focused exclusively on the issue, it has made for a higher-toned discussion.

 

When you make comments like this:

However logic, practicality, and common sense are generally absent many players comments and opinions during the silly season leading up to an expac release date.

 

I'm not sure why so many people choose to live life in perpetual pessimism... but it is both common and appears to feed some personal need.

It only adds more negativity.

 

Do you agree?

[Andryah]

Andryah, wouldn't it improve the "general negative tenor and tone in the forum" to debate the issues without making further negative comments about other forum posters?

 

(This is a legitimate question, by the way. I'm not trying to poke you with a stick to get a reaction.)

 

I don't disagree about the tone of negativity. But in the past, whenever I've personally followed suit and responded in a negative manner, it's simply made things worse. Those times when I've avoid comments about people, and focused exclusively on the issue, it has made for a higher-toned discussion.

 

When you make comments like this:

 

It only adds more negativity.

 

Do you agree?

 

Great comments and questions, and I agree with you up to a point. I often do not comment at all in some threads because they are so raw and over the top that anything.... literally anything.... said will just create more drama and in fact give people excuses to attack you. And I generally do not weigh in on topics that are driven substantially by people just having different views on things, unless I have something to share on the topic. But you have to agree, some threads sole purposes are to provoke and promote a negative narrative against the studio and offer nothing constructive in the form of discussion. And yes, there is always some level of subjectivity and misunderstanding because of different writing skills, different culture, different mind set.. because the written word is inferior to face to face conversations.

 

That said.. I am a very straightforward person, with a low tolerance for obvious BS for BS sake. So I do feel that simply ignoring negativity, and allowing it to stand without comment just emboldens the negative narratives being pressed. Human nature is such that people will push limits in public discussion, while hiding behind their annonymity, and if they get away with it, they feel emboldened to go farther. This is a clear indication of boundary issues and a lack of care or concern for anyone else, in my experience.

 

Not that pushing back will always work by any means... but letting some of the negative commentary go without calling it for what it is and pointing out why is worse than highlighting it for what it is. Confrontation itself is not bad, but some people take it very personally and are very uncomfortable with it... unless they are the ones doing it. Again.. common in human nature. And I am by no means the only person here that feels this way and responds similarly. I get attacked sometimes for it as well, and when I do, I try not to retaliate and either just report them and/or put them on ignore if they choose to be persistent in attacking me personally.

 

There is an issue at play here in the forum, particularly during the run up to an expac. The core issue here is not differing opinions (which are fine in my view) ... but rather the manner in which some people believe they can behave and then act all offended when someone challenges them on it. Which is why I prefer to stick to commenting on the general tenor and negative bias, and not call anyone out specifically for any comment. I also try to explain the why and reasoning of my comments in such cases, which sometimes is acknowledged, and sometimes simply ignored (which is itself very telling). And of course sometimes someone reads a comment and in spite of it being not directed in any way at them.. they choose to take it personally. In cases like this.. that is on the person, not me. They need to own their feelings, as I cannot.

 

At the end of the day, there is a fragment of the forum membership here that loves to pile-on to any negative narrative and comment about the game or the studio. They seem to relish it until they finally leave a game they simply do not like or enjoy. Sometimes it's worth commenting on, sometimes it's not. I do not however believe in letting such minority and pejorative views about the game go completely unanswered. Why? Because when new players and infrequent visitors to the forum in the player base see such biased negativity, with no counter-narrative, it leaves them with a biased impression of the game and the studio.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Andryah

[Tsillah]

So according to the live stream, the veteran level is tuned to be completed in mid-tier ops gear for the level you are at. At 65 this is 216 (hard mode ops gear) and Eric was 66 in 224 (NiM gear but not fully augmented) and got creamed the first time he played off camera and just scraped by the second time at the final boss (with a level 20 Lana dying but Eric using off heals to survive).

 

Erm, mid level gear for level 65 is 220. The 216 is the gear that drops in SM currently.

[ForjKlahaa]

Unless he was playing a "Dev mode" version, 224 gear is not "mid-tier" for KotET, it's either Tier 0 or Tier 1. The gear cap is moving up, along with the crafting cap and the level cap.

 

He was level 66 and the chapters "scale" to your level so he wasn't undergeared as he wouldn't have been able to wear true endgame (lv 70) gear.

 

So.. for more then a year now.. the forum mantras have centered around story content being too easy... Bioware sucks!

 

Now they give players a challenge switch.. and now.. without even playing the content yourself.. it's declared too hard and not worth the time.

 

What that.....?!!?

 

Kobayashi Maru syndrome strikes again.

 

I want the content to be challenging; really challenging but also rewarding. I've solo'd a few TPFs in 216 comms gear and the fights were really tough but a lot of fun. When I was done I thought "I wish this game could acknowledge that I just did this solo and reward me accordingly". I don't think veteran chapters will be as hard as that but maybe master will be.

 

I just got done doing a whole load of TFPs in one nights for DVL (2nd time on a different server) and they are easy af. The only problems arrive when a couple of lowbies show up and you spend more time using the kolto stations than actually fighting. When everyone is 65, they are a breeze. If this new level of content is really as tough as they say it is, then it should give more or at least the same CXP as a TFP. If it's not particularly challenging then whatever but it's not what Eric made it out to be.

 

And by the way this is exactly what progression raiders have been moaning about since NiM stopped dropping 224s. You do difficult content, you expect rewards. I'm not saying this is gonna be NiM level but I don't buy into this belief that group content is inherently more difficult than solo content because you have to use teamwork as if this some elusive skill that takes years to craft. Speak to each other, agree on a plan, do the job. It's not rocket science. Now if you're arguing that group content should always be more rewarding because this is an MMO and you need to incentivise people to group up, then that's an argument for another day although you really can't force people to have fun together if they're not feeling it.

[Andryah]

I want the content to be challenging; really challenging but also rewarding.

 

I agree with you on this.

 

How exactly have we come to the conclusion already that the rewards will not be worth the effort? I think we all need to see it on a live server, with our own characters before we can accurately assess this and make a decision.

 

That said... I have seen a number of people since 4.0 ask/demand more challenge, regardless if there is commensurate reward or not. I doubt it is any majority in the player base, but it does exist.

[ForjKlahaa]

Erm, mid level gear for level 65 is 220. The 216 is the gear that drops in SM currently.

 

I was basing it on the assumption that you need 208 (not really because bolster) for SM, 216 for HM and 220 for NiM. So the gear tier that you need to do it not what drops from it. That's what I thought he meant when he said it's tuned to mid-level gear.

 

I can't see how it can require the equivalent of 220 at lv 70 to complete unless it's content designed for raiders who are likely to be in that gear within a week or two. The rate at which solo players will earn CXP, they will be lucky to get in 220 by the time 6.0 drops.

[teclado]

Have you seen Eric play before?

He really does suck.

He's probably far better than your average story player. He doesn't suck. You're just looking for an excuse to rip into him.

 

I watched the stream for a bit. At first I didn't realize that there were three difficulty levels. I thought that Eric was playing the hardest difficulty level, and I was disappointed. Honestly, I did not think that it looked all that hard. He had no augments, his gear was not optimized, and I'm not sure what influence level his companion was (somebody said 20?). If you can go in like that and 1-shot it, it's not hard at all. I would rate the 4.X difficulty level of the story chapters as "impossible to die, even when AFK." I would call the new middle difficulty level that was demonstrated "you have to be awake." Hopefully the hardest difficulty level will actually take some strategy to complete, else you will die every time.

[casirabit]

What does that have to do with anything though?

 

I was the business owner for a number of web properties that were customer facing over my career, and I was never as good as my customers at using and applying them. I also project managed complex IT projects, even though I could not code or QA with the proficiency of the professionals actually hired to do so. Then again.. they could not project manage their way out of a box either.. so it was a win for everyone, me, the developers, and the company.

 

Honestly.. if Eric was so good at playing.. that players took notice and lauded him for it... I would be concerned.. because that would indicate to me that he was in fact spending more time playing the game then doing his job as community manager.

 

 

Okay I am going to hate myself for this but for once I agree with her. What does it matter how well he plays when he is just showing the content.

Edited November 4, 2016 by casirabit

[ForjKlahaa]

I agree with you on this.

 

How exactly have we come to the conclusion already that the rewards will not be worth the effort? I think we all need to see it on a live server, with our own characters before we can accurately assess this and make a decision.

 

That said... I have seen a number of people since 4.0 ask/demand more challenge, regardless if there is commensurate reward or not. I doubt it is any majority in the player base, but it does exist.

 

I will still play through the chapters on veteran whether the rewards are worth it or not (assuming my gear will even be up to it). I just won't grind it over and over for CXP. I don't think there's any one thing I'll be willing to grind. Uprisings look promising and these chapters look like fun but will get old pretty quick if I feel like I'm working my behind off for a few measly CXP when I could knock out Hammer Station in 20 minutes or do a quick WZ for so much more even though I really don't feel like grouping that day.

 

I agree with you though that we don't know exactly how CXP is going to be dished although we do have some idea based on what Eric said, which is why I made this thread.

[ForjKlahaa]

He's probably far better than your average story player. He doesn't suck. You're just looking for an excuse to rip into him.

 

I watched the stream for a bit. At first I didn't realize that there were three difficulty levels. I thought that Eric was playing the hardest difficulty level, and I was disappointed. Honestly, I did not think that it looked all that hard. He had no augments, his gear was not optimized, and I'm not sure what influence level his companion was (somebody said 20?). If you can go in like that and 1-shot it, it's not hard at all. I would rate the 4.X difficulty level of the story chapters as "impossible to die, even when AFK." I would call the new middle difficulty level that was demonstrated "you have to be awake." Hopefully the hardest difficulty level will actually take some strategy to complete, else you will die every time.

 

Optimized or not, that was still 224 gear, which the average story player would likely never have so I think it will be pretty tough going. Some people like to say that the EC is easy but it's only easy in good gear or you happen to be an exceptional player. I can go all 10 rounds on my mara in a mix of 216/220 (no set bonus) aug'd gear and it is tough, not excruciating but a tough challenge. I have to use my DCDs, manage my companion, think about positioning and kill order etc. If I were wearing BiS, I could probably fly through it and ignore a lot of that.

 

I think these chapters will be comparable to EC except there will also be a master level which will keep even the best players on their toes. It's never likely going to be NiM level difficulty and it always be easier once you're wearing the best gear but if they make it so hard that you need NiM gear to even stand a chance, then the only players who will be able to do it will be raiders and ranked PvPers who are the only ones likely to get that gear in any reasonable amount of time.

[IanArgent]

I was basing it on the assumption that you need 208 (not really because bolster) for SM, 216 for HM and 220 for NiM. So the gear tier that you need to do it not what drops from it. That's what I thought he meant when he said it's tuned to mid-level gear.

 

I can't see how it can require the equivalent of 220 at lv 70 to complete unless it's content designed for raiders who are likely to be in that gear within a week or two. The rate at which solo players will earn CXP, they will be lucky to get in 220 by the time 6.0 drops.

 

The teir of gear that drops from Command Crates is unrelated to the difficulty of the content; only speed of acquisition is. Tier 2+ crates drop anytime after you make tier 2 CXP. You don't have to do this to get the gear to do this; one of the reasons raiders are all hot and bothered.

[phalczen]

Interesting options bit this one is not valid. Since in chapters you are forced to use certain companions and get all of them to higher ranks is expensive and contra-productive.

 

You are required to use certain comps, true, but at least in the case of KOTFE chapters, you're re-playing them, hence, your mandatory comp has probably been leveled up some. Lots of players have leveled up Lana or Theron simply because they're used a lot in the story.

[Andryah]

You are required to use certain comps, true, but at least in the case of KOTFE chapters, you're re-playing them, hence, your mandatory comp has probably been leveled up some. Lots of players have leveled up Lana or Theron simply because they're used a lot in the story.

 

Not to mention.. the studio has stated they tuned the veteran level difficulty around a level 20 companion. So in reality, anyone actually worried about this can spend a modest pile of credits and about 15 minutes to level a companion to level 20 influence using the level one gifts available from the gift vendors in game. Anything beyond that is just lowering the difficulty of the content... which kind of defeats the purpose.. given how many people have complained about companions being over powered since 4.0.

 

On a positive note, this should put to rest the constant complaints about companions being over powered to the point you can let them do all the work while you are in the kitchen make yourself a sammich.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Andryah

[IanArgent]

I suspect the "most efficient way" to earn CXP will end up being "do a little of everything" rather than "a lot of any one thing."

 

The rustling of jimmies will be epic.

[ForjKlahaa]

The teir of gear that drops from Command Crates is unrelated to the difficulty of the content; only speed of acquisition is. Tier 2+ crates drop anytime after you make tier 2 CXP. You don't have to do this to get the gear to do this; one of the reasons raiders are all hot and bothered.

 

I'm not saying solo players will never get the gear just that it will take a very long time if their only method of acquiring CXP is heroics. This isn't the case for me, I do a little of everything except ops but if we compare it to the rate at which a solo only player can earn radiant crystals compared to someone that does a lot of group content, it will be a very long time before those crates start dropping the gear they need to even think about veteran or master.

 

I read through the back and forth about this thread being another negative thread about 5.0 when I'm actually looking forward to it. I'm just a little tired of solo play being devalued no matter how tough it is and group content being viewed as superior no matter how easy it is. I'm glad there will be tougher content even if it doesn't earn the CXP I think it will warrant.

[Nempo]

Here is a paradox that perhaps someone can answer for me. I often notice that the same people begging for harder content (solo content at that) are almost always the same people who have several level 50 companions. If you want it to be harder, NEVER give your companions gifts, and use the lowest influence companion you have.

 

I mean, want a challenge? No heroic moment, no unity, level 1 companion, group mode star fortress...but solo it without using any crates or the buffs.

People say they want a challenge but when they have the option to do it, they take the easiest way out. I mean the first thing people do when a challenge shows up is see if there is a way around it.

[Rolodome]

Here is a paradox that perhaps someone can answer for me. I often notice that the same people begging for harder content (solo content at that) are almost always the same people who have several level 50 companions. If you want it to be harder, NEVER give your companions gifts, and use the lowest influence companion you have.

 

I mean, want a challenge? No heroic moment, no unity, level 1 companion, group mode star fortress...but solo it without using any crates or the buffs.

People say they want a challenge but when they have the option to do it, they take the easiest way out. I mean the first thing people do when a challenge shows up is see if there is a way around it.

Personally, I do artificially create challenges for myself sometimes. (See one of the videos I've made for a tongue-in-cheek example... link in my sig.)

 

But I nonetheless would look for the most strategic way to complete a challenge... not necessarily the "easiest," but the most strategic, meaning optimal. And yet, if I don't have optimal, I'll work with sub-optimal if I have to. Case in point, recently decided to get a few extra DvL crates on a different server (yay that I did, got most of Xoxaan and unlocked the rest with GTN). Anyway, I needed to do Lanos for the DvL achieve. Ended up doing it on a gunslinger marksman, freshly geared. Some modded level 60 pieces, some 204 gear, really sub-optimal. Companion influence less than 10, I'm pretty sure.

 

It was touch-and-go a couple times and I grabbed a kolto or two on Lanos, since I wasn't going to need them later. But otherwise, the gear wasn't a big deal, nor was the influence and I did it anyway.

 

So point I guess of me saying this... A) I get to brag about taking down Lanos in ****** gear, B) not everybody fits with that paradox of yours.

 

Also, the reason a lot of them probably have level 50 influence companions is cause they're people who sink a lot of hours into the game, so it can be one of those, "What else is there to do?" things. Mixed with the fact that people who want a challenge tend to have a min-max attitude and want to optimize everything for optimization's sake.

 

Don't get me wrong though. People who say they want a challenge and then balk when a real one presents itself do exist. It happens. But it's not always the case.

[ForjKlahaa]

Here is a paradox that perhaps someone can answer for me. I often notice that the same people begging for harder content (solo content at that) are almost always the same people who have several level 50 companions. If you want it to be harder, NEVER give your companions gifts, and use the lowest influence companion you have.

 

I mean, want a challenge? No heroic moment, no unity, level 1 companion, group mode star fortress...but solo it without using any crates or the buffs.

People say they want a challenge but when they have the option to do it, they take the easiest way out. I mean the first thing people do when a challenge shows up is see if there is a way around it.

 

What? Artificially gimping yourself is nor a satisfying alternative to overcoming a true challenge with all the skill and tools at your disposal. I only have one 50 comp btw for an alt I don't even play but he's my cybertech and slicer and I was spending a fortune on mats and Kaliyo was already at 35 by the time I finished the agent story so I spent the comms on gifts to bump her up.

 

And just because you will cheese your way through tough content if you can, it doesn't mean that everyone else wants to

[peter_plankskull]

Honestly that was the first time i saw arsenal merc using fusion missile.

 

Honestly I think Eric played okay on his merc . I mean yeah it wasn't god tier like to be able to run HM operations but I believe he focused more about stunning and immobilizing his opponents actions then killing them, hence the use of fusion missile. His awareness was okay, I mean, the mobs did come down in a predetermined pattern and he did run it before so he knew were they were remembering them while acting accordingly, and he only had a limited amount of abilities to use. It was hard to get a sense of rotation without a dummy or longer engagement but again, it seemed okay. Only thing imo he needed to do from what he had was throw out stuns.

 

Besides... I use fusion missile at times all the time in flashpoints on a gunnery mando to stun some mobs when death from above is on cool down .