VA strike

[Theeko]

Wow that is alot

[SithKoriandr]

As the person you quoted was pointing out, the pay is so high per-hour because they only get paid for the hours recording, but that's not the actual lion's share of the work they do. They don't get paid anything for the hours they worked to get to that point - auditioning, rehearsing, preparing and updating portfolios, etc.

 

The amount they get paid for the recording time has to cover the hours and hour they worked but didn't get paid for. That's why the issue of residuals is such a sticking point, because weeks or months can go by between recording sessions where they are still working full weeks (auditioning, recording demos, rehearsing, etc) but not getting paid at all for that work - residuals coming in during those non-paid stretches are how they can make ends meet.

 

Most voice actors are making a middle-class income by the time all is said and done, not living in mansions. Yeah, they're making more than a Micky D's worker, but they're also professionals in a skilled trade.

 

Is VA considered a skilled trade? Last I knew, that was the area of plumbers, electricians, carpenters, not...speaking into a mic with feeling?

 

That aside, you're saying, people should be paid for trying to get a job? I wish when I was looking for a job and hen got hired on to one, they would go "This is how much you're going to make, plus here's extra for all that time it took to make a resume, keep it updated, and coming in for interviews, possibly multiple times, before we decided to hire you."

 

[DarthDymond]

That aside, you're saying, people should be paid for trying to get a job? I wish when I was looking for a job and hen got hired on to one, they would go "This is how much you're going to make, plus here's extra for all that time it took to make a resume, keep it updated, and coming in for interviews, possibly multiple times, before we decided to hire you."

 

Do some people really not get that there is a difference between job fields that generally consist of short-term contract jobs and fields that generally consist of long-term employment?

 

If someone works as a factory worker, or a legal assistant, or a doctor, then "getting a job" means you apply around, get hired and then if everything works out you are going to stay with that job or at least that company and have a steady income for years to come (and often benefits like insurance and retirement plans).

 

If someone works as a voice actor, then "getting a job" means they landed a gig that will have them paid work for a few days (usually) to a few weeks (rarely), and then that job will be over and done with - at which point it's back to trying to get the next job, and then trying to get the next, and then trying to get the next. So yes, when you're in a field like that, the only way it is a viable career is if those short jobs pay enough to sustain you for the periods in between them when you're trying to get hired for the next one (plus things like insurance, that aren't covered through the jobs).

Edited November 7, 2016 by DarthDymond

[SithKoriandr]

Do some people really not get that there is a difference between job fields that generally consist of short-term contract jobs and fields that generally consist of long-term employment?

 

If someone works as a factory worker, or a legal assistant, or a doctor, then "getting a job" means you apply around, get hired and then if everything works out you are going to stay with that job or at least that company and have a steady income for years to come (and often benefits like insurance and retirement plans).

 

If someone works as a voice actor, then "getting a job" means they landed a gig that will have them paid work for a few days (usually) to a few weeks (rarely), and then that job will be over and done with - at which point it's back to trying to get the next job, and then trying to get the next, and then trying to get the next. So yes, when you're in a field like that, the only way it is a viable career is if those short jobs pay enough to sustain you for the periods in between them when you're trying to get hired for the next one (plus things like insurance, that aren't covered through the jobs).

 

Those in the construction field, are not promised work. In fact, they can often times become unemployed during winter. So, time for residuals?

 

Lawn maintenance! Go around, looking for work, no steady customers, time for residuals.

[Jeweledleah]

Those in the construction field, are not promised work. In fact, they can often times become unemployed during winter. So, time for residuals?

 

Lawn maintenance! Go around, looking for work, no steady customers, time for residuals.

 

you do also realize that they get paid per job and their pay reflects the dry spells? for example. it cost me $500 to have a wood stove installed. it took 2 guys less then an hour to do so, but lets round it up to an hour. huh, $250 an hour right there, except... travel time and the know how and the tools and the fact that they don't do that year round and suddenly the pay is more reasonable. kinda how voice acting works - since you know, you brought up construction and all.

 

moreover. there is an old Russian joke where a famous bass opera singer - Shalapin flagged a well lets call it taxi since its essentially what it was, just horse driven but I digress, to go home after a performance. the driver decided to strike a conversation and asked Shalapin what he does for a living, to which he replied "I sing". driver scoffed - so do i in a bath, but what do you DO?

 

the moral of the story being... your general speaking is not even remotely the same as acting - voice or otherwise. and yes voice acting IS acting, you just don't have props or costumes to act against, so you have to use your imagination a lot more. and yes that takes skill. and training, out of self preservation if nothing else, because I challenge you - forget acting, just read a book outloud for a few hours, see how your throat starts to feel. now. try to actualy "read with feeling" after that? attempt to yell and make various sounds of pain and grunts and call outs and see if you can speak at all the next day. it takes training not to lose your voice outright but even then - you STILL need a rest period.

 

not to mention a lot of the actors, most of them in fact - voice multiple characters for the same intellectual property. most aren't like Hank Azaria who literally voiced half the freaking cast of the Simpsons, but its normal to voice at least 2-3 characters, sometimes more.

 

last but not least, going back to your example of construction work. unlike something like say.. books, or cartoons or movies - construction work doesn't continue making profits for the person that hired the construction crew. quite the contrary. meanwhile - every time cartoon or a TV show or a book goes into syndication - it continues to make profit for the publisher, even though they are no longer doing any work on it, they just SELL the rights to show it. video games keep selling copies LONG after work is complete, continuing to bring in profit.

 

so if you are going to compare voice acting - don't go for apples and fish - compare apples to apples. and guess what? everything BUT video game acting? pays residuals as a part of standard contract UNLESS an actor and their agent sign up with a different deal for whatever reason.

 

but hey, residuals are not even the biggest of deals there, though it is a big point. the rest of their points are pretty damn big deal, you know with the whole stunt co-coordinators for mo-cap, which is normal on movie sets, but for some reason for the same exact work in video games - lets just skimp on that. or hazard pay/shorter hours for high intensity recording.. you know the kind that can permanently damage vocal cords EVEN with training. which is normal for other jobs that are hazardous to people's bodies.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Jeweledleah

[TX_Angel]

you do also realize that they get paid per job and their pay reflects the dry spells? for example. it cost me $500 to have a wood stove installed. it took 2 guys less then an hour to do so, but lets round it up to an hour. huh, $250 an hour right there, except... travel time and the know how and the tools and the fact that they don't do that year round and suddenly the pay is more reasonable. kinda how voice acting works - since you know, you brought up construction and all.

 

snip a lot of pointless drivel

 

You paid $500 to have a wood stove installed, that's fine. It is also fine if I can find two guys to do it for $300, or perhaps I can do it myself. Perhaps they won't do as good a job, or perhaps I won't, but I have that option.

 

The insanity here is that not only are the voice actors trying to say "we won't work for this pay anymore", but "you can't hire anyone ELSE to do it either, so accept our terms or else"

 

Yea, yea, go pound sand... Not "everyone" can do it, but it isn't THAT special...

[DarthDymond]

The insanity here is that not only are the voice actors trying to say "we won't work for this pay anymore", but "you can't hire anyone ELSE to do it either, so accept our terms or else"

 

Yea, yea, go pound sand... Not "everyone" can do it, but it isn't THAT special...

As you've pointed out yourself, there's nothing stopping the game companies from cutting ties with the Union and hiring non-SAG talent if they think that is the better move, financially. (The fact that they haven't done so yet seems like a fair indicator that the talent set just might be "that special" afterall.)

 

And within SAG-AFTRA, the strike authorization vote was over 96% in favor, so that's not screaming "gun to the head" scenario either. Just as with all other "if you don't like the deal, walk away" situations, any actor who's feeling ill-served can always turn in their SAG card and try to make a go of things without the union.

Edited November 7, 2016 by DarthDymond

[Jeweledleah]

You paid $500 to have a wood stove installed, that's fine. It is also fine if I can find two guys to do it for $300, or perhaps I can do it myself. Perhaps they won't do as good a job, or perhaps I won't, but I have that option.

 

The insanity here is that not only are the voice actors trying to say "we won't work for this pay anymore", but "you can't hire anyone ELSE to do it either, so accept our terms or else"

 

Yea, yea, go pound sand... Not "everyone" can do it, but it isn't THAT special...

 

as its already been pointed out bellow - they HAVE that option. that option often ends up in those "top 20 worst voice acting in video games" videos on youtube. you end up paying more, because those actors your hired that were not part of the union - took longer to get the lines right, so you had to rent out the sound booth for more time and THAT costs money. you may need to just rerecord the whole thing, because it didn't come out well (in terms of construction work - having to pay extra just to fix mistakes you or your cheaper contractors made) I mean you could always go with celebrity on screen actors.. .with their 10 times higher rates and less flexible schedules.

 

not every voice actor is a member of the union. but if these companies want to hire professionals who will reliably and quickly do a good job? well they can just do like the companies that are NOT on a list of the publishers they are striking against.

 

this is my favorite part about the whole debate, people ignoring that the strike is against select specific publishers not even remotely every game publisher. and that the very same publishers on the list that voice actors are striking against - are normally the publishers we gamers just loooove to ***** against, you know the whole "they ruin games, they are anti consumer etc etc" the irony here is absolutely staggering.

 

P.S. maybe if you had actualy bothered reading that "pointless drivel" you may have learned something. then again...

Edited November 7, 2016 by Jeweledleah

[SithKoriandr]

People rage against a company, they then have to hope it gets brow beat? I just don't see their job being worth what they want to call hazard pay. If it hurts your voice that much, don't do it. Get a different job.

 

Yes, there may be better voice actors than others, but at the same time, it's not a endangered skill either. It's like the great singer you heard and wondered why they didn't make it big. Because there's other great singers out there.

 

Also, back to the 200+ dollars an hour. Sorry, going out job searching, is not something people get paid for. You say, "Oh, that cost is to cover all their auditioning." Auditioning is job searching. They found a job that paid 200+ dollars an hour.

[Jeweledleah]

People rage against a company, they then have to hope it gets brow beat? I just don't see their job being worth what they want to call hazard pay. If it hurts your voice that much, don't do it. Get a different job.

 

Yes, there may be better voice actors than others, but at the same time, it's not a endangered skill either. It's like the great singer you heard and wondered why they didn't make it big. Because there's other great singers out there.

 

Also, back to the 200+ dollars an hour. Sorry, going out job searching, is not something people get paid for. You say, "Oh, that cost is to cover all their auditioning." Auditioning is job searching. They found a job that paid 200+ dollars an hour.

 

among other things - you need to learn the difference between a job and a gig. but hey its not like SWTOR is voiced by the bulk of the actors who had enough of EA's ********, and are striking right now.

[Rolodome]

People rage against a company, they then have to hope it gets brow beat? I just don't see their job being worth what they want to call hazard pay. If it hurts your voice that much, don't do it. Get a different job.

 

Yes, there may be better voice actors than others, but at the same time, it's not a endangered skill either. It's like the great singer you heard and wondered why they didn't make it big. Because there's other great singers out there.

 

Also, back to the 200+ dollars an hour. Sorry, going out job searching, is not something people get paid for. You say, "Oh, that cost is to cover all their auditioning." Auditioning is job searching. They found a job that paid 200+ dollars an hour.

The following is a rough sketch of the difference between a career as an actor or voice actor and the career of a more traditional job. I'll use accountant as an example because it's a pretty straightforward one.

 

VA: Train, train, train, pay for workshops, pay for coaching, train, train, train. Audition X50. Get small gig where you say one line and leave. More workshops, more coaching, audition X50. Get another small gig where you say one line and leave. Rinse and repeat until you build a portfolio where you can get a slightly bigger part and get paid a little bit more for it. Note that the speed of audition time to getting another gig doesn't necessarily go up a lot. If your voice gets damaged, go back to whatever no-upward-mobility 9 to 5 you can manage that will pay your bills, while you figure out if you can continue to be a VA. Also, if you need surgery for your voice, hope and pray that you have the money to cover it with your meager savings and enjoy being unable to work in customer service, while your voice is broken. Enjoy having a skill set that is lauded as godly when you're at the very top and treated like replaceable dirt on a shoe when it's not.

 

Accountant: Go to college for four years, with student loans if necessary, in a protected zone of society, where you don't have to worry all that much about financially supporting yourself. As you get close to graduation, go to job fairs and try to secure a job early on, so you'll have one when you come out. When you do come out, shouldn't take that long to secure one if you haven't already, as your skillset is straightforward and there is solid demand for it. Get paid in salary, possibly with benefits, and spend a few years at the same company, gaining valuable experience and looking for opportunities to move up the career ladder where possible. When you are ready to move on, look for a job at another company (hopefully an upgraded position) and arrange it so that you'll get that job and be able to give notice to your current one, seamlessly switching over. Rinse and repeat until you're either at the top of the corporate ladder, or you're as high as you want to go and are happy where you are. Enjoy vacation days, benefits, and the job security of knowing that your skills will always be needed.

 

Auditioning is not the same as "job searching" in the traditional sense. Though there are now more taped auditions than there used to be (taped meaning you record yourself and send it in) there are still tons that you have to physically go to the location for. That means gas money, travel time, etc., all on their schedule. Job searching usually involves more application than interview. Typically with a job, if you get called in to do an interview, there's a good chance you might get hired. With auditions, getting a callback (where they have you come in again to repeat your audition) means there's a good chance you might get hired (you're basically on a short list at that point).

 

But the audition itself means very little, unless you're a high profile celebrity who has already been shortlisted by another high profile celebrity, or a high profile casting director. And much like a job interview, you have to put on a kind of performance at an audition. But no one is paying you to do this, in fact, in gas money, you're paying them to do it, and unlike a job interview, you're not answering prepared questions and trying to look professional, you're putting your heart and soul skillset on the line and no matter how good of a performance you give, if they don't feel you're right for the part, you don't get the job. It's that simple. I read an advice book from a casting director once and they were talking about this one actor who they kept bringing in for auditions because they performed so well, but it hurt them because so many times, that person just wasn't quite right for the part. Eventually she (the casting director) found a spot where they fit better than anyone, but that actor had to just keep plugging away until it happened.

 

Don't get me wrong. The job search process can be soul-crushing and awful. But in some ways, the auditioning process is far worse. There's a reason people say that if you want to be a performer, you need to really deeply want it, because otherwise, you're going to be in a ditch within the first few months. It is a harsh, unforgiving business and the primary reason so many people stick through it is because they find the work to give meaning to their lives. Without that, virtually no one would bother.

[SithKoriandr]

Don't get me wrong. The job search process can be soul-crushing and awful. But in some ways, the auditioning process is far worse. There's a reason people say that if you want to be a performer, you need to really deeply want it, because otherwise, you're going to be in a ditch within the first few months. It is a harsh, unforgiving business and the primary reason so many people stick through it is because they find the work to give meaning to their lives. Without that, virtually no one would bother.

 

Then they know that going in. I'm also not against them getting more money, I just don't feel they're that sympathetic when they make 200+ an hour and people KNOW all this going into the business.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Wow that is alot

 

And once again, the VA union only represents a little u der 25% of the VAs in the business. They hardly speak for all, not even the majority.

[Rolodome]

Then they know that going in. I'm also not against them getting more money, I just don't feel they're that sympathetic when they make 200+ an hour and people KNOW all this going into the business.

Yes, but do you like playing games like SWTOR that are fully voice-acted? Because it would seem you're implying that if they don't like the conditions, they should just not do it and if every VA did that, there would be no SWTOR.

 

As for "200+ an hour," numbers like that are largely misunderstood bull. If I spend a month going to audition after audition after audition and I finally get a 4 hour gig that pays $200 an hour, that's $800 I made in one month and there's no guarantee I'll find another gig like that next month.

 

There is so much uncertainty in the creative business and I get so tired of the shtick that goes like this: "If they don't like it, then don't do it." And, "I saw some guy made 1 million for saying a single line in a movie. All Actors are spoiled and get paid too much." So if I sound like I'm railing against you at all, realize it's not personal.

 

If you don't want to sympathize, or you don't want to support their strike, then don't. You have no obligation to. There are many things that I don't sympathize with that others would think I should. This isn't emotional blackmail. I'm just saying, these are the realities of the industry and I'm not going to sit by while people try to justify a lack of sympathy in front of me, on this issue. Frankly, there are a lot of people whose encounters with the creative industry are limited to success stories from major celebrities. Unless you have been in the trenches, attempting it yourself and/or knowing a bunch of other people who are attempting it, it's hard to wrap your head around just how chaotic and volatile it all is. They put on a big show at the top because they're performers, but even at the top, it's not always hunky dory.

[SithKoriandr]

Yes, but do you like playing games like SWTOR that are fully voice-acted? Because it would seem you're implying that if they don't like the conditions, they should just not do it and if every VA did that, there would be no SWTOR.

 

As for "200+ an hour," numbers like that are largely misunderstood bull. If I spend a month going to audition after audition after audition and I finally get a 4 hour gig that pays $200 an hour, that's $800 I made in one month and there's no guarantee I'll find another gig like that next month.

 

There is so much uncertainty in the creative business and I get so tired of the shtick that goes like this: "If they don't like it, then don't do it." And, "I saw some guy made 1 million for saying a single line in a movie. All Actors are spoiled and get paid too much." So if I sound like I'm railing against you at all, realize it's not personal.

 

If you don't want to sympathize, or you don't want to support their strike, then don't. You have no obligation to. There are many things that I don't sympathize with that others would think I should. This isn't emotional blackmail. I'm just saying, these are the realities of the industry and I'm not going to sit by while people try to justify a lack of sympathy in front of me, on this issue. Frankly, there are a lot of people whose encounters with the creative industry are limited to success stories from major celebrities. Unless you have been in the trenches, attempting it yourself and/or knowing a bunch of other people who are attempting it, it's hard to wrap your head around just how chaotic and volatile it all is. They put on a big show at the top because they're performers, but even at the top, it's not always hunky dory.

 

I didn't say, don't go for more money. I don't agree with the strike. Audition, and when at the table discussing pay, tell them how much you want and negotiate from there.

 

The problem with a strike, is it defeats everything people want. Want more money? Well, to do so, you have to stop making money!

 

So, someone who went from 800 a week (I'm curious as to how much demand there is for VA, as I would like to know if the VAs working are right back to auditioning when not VAing or do offers come along like once or twice a week) they are now making nothing a week.

 

So, they've already stated this is a feast or famine job and that some of the jobs these VAs go after, already give these benefits, so they never had to call a strike, just had to say to EA when auditioning "I want this amount of money, or I won't take the job" and which point EA can say okay or walk.

 

Instead, they're denying the VAs who are under the union, making a paycheck to go along with those other great jobs that give great benefits.

[Jeweledleah]

I didn't say, don't go for more money. I don't agree with the strike. Audition, and when at the table discussing pay, tell them how much you want and negotiate from there.

 

The problem with a strike, is it defeats everything people want. Want more money? Well, to do so, you have to stop making money!

 

So, someone who went from 800 a week (I'm curious as to how much demand there is for VA, as I would like to know if the VAs working are right back to auditioning when not VAing or do offers come along like once or twice a week) they are now making nothing a week.

 

So, they've already stated this is a feast or famine job and that some of the jobs these VAs go after, already give these benefits, so they never had to call a strike, just had to say to EA when auditioning "I want this amount of money, or I won't take the job" and which point EA can say okay or walk.

 

Instead, they're denying the VAs who are under the union, making a paycheck to go along with those other great jobs that give great benefits.

 

reminder. they are not striking against every company everywhere. they are striking against a relatively small list of specific video game publishers. cartoon jobs, commercial VO, video game companies NOT on the list, movie localization etc? are still all fair game to go for AND since they are not rife with the issues that companies on the strike list have? those gigs shouldn't result in potentially career ending injuries.

 

I had my doubts about strike. I thought that yes, it may hurt the ones starting out - the most. but... here's the thing, how are they supposed to fight for more money, especially the ones that are just starting out - on their own? how can they fight for better working conditions on their lonesome. a single person has very little leverage. organized lots of people? are a whole different story. and the fact that they are striking against specific list of publishers rather then industry as a whole is what convinced me.

 

edited to add, another reminder that its NOT a conventional, not even part time let alone full time $200 an hour job. its short term gigs.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Jeweledleah

[SithKoriandr]

reminder. they are not striking against every company everywhere. they are striking against a relatively small list of specific video game publishers. cartoon jobs, commercial VO, video game companies NOT on the list, movie localization etc? are still all fair game to go for AND since they are not rife with the issues that companies on the strike list have? those gigs shouldn't result in potentially career ending injuries.

 

I had my doubts about strike. I thought that yes, it may hurt the ones starting out - the most. but... here's the thing, how are they supposed to fight for more money, especially the ones that are just starting out - on their own? how can they fight for better working conditions on their lonesome. a single person has very little leverage. organized lots of people? are a whole different story. and the fact that they are striking against specific list of publishers rather then industry as a whole is what convinced me.

 

edited to add, another reminder that its NOT a conventional, not even part time let alone full time $200 an hour job. its short term gigs.

 

Yes, and if people want to take the risk of making a living off that, so be it. Obviously there were already businesses which went along with VAs who contracted for what the union didn't have to strike for. So, what it means is the VAs just need to hold out for better terms of employment with the EA, not strike. Go in, audition, then tell them the price of your audition.

 

It had to have worked that way for the companies they're not striking against.

[StarkHelsing]

Ah, this explains why I'm seeing most of these VA's in Elder Scrolls Online without an issue with upcoming DLCs. They're not on their poop list.

[AngFour]

Ah, this explains why I'm seeing most of these VA's in Elder Scrolls Online without an issue with upcoming DLCs. They're not on their poop list.

 

Even if they were on strike against video games, voices get recorded MONTHS in advance. For KotET they were recording at the beginning of April of 2016 for the December 2016 release. So for ESO, voices would have been recorded long before they went on strike.

[Suzsi]

I disagree .

 

Voices actors sometimes can be the reason why a game is good . They can carry a whole gosh darn game on that voice alone .

 

A good exemple , is Kotor 2 . The Lady who voiced Kreia pretty much breathed Life in the damn game , that the creators released half Butt done with cut content and such .

I have to agree with this. To be honest without the VA's, if they went back to all text or whatever I wouldn't play these games any more. Its ALL about the voice acting.

[dr_mike]

I was skimming some of the kickstarters I've supported and noticed this post:

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spaceventure/two-guys-spaceventure-by-the-creators-of-space-que/posts/1742324

 

Looks like the strike isn't affecting just the bigger companies.

[dr_mike]

We have someone in general chat who's swearing up and down that there was no such strike, voice actors aren't in any sort of union and how we're all spreading lies and fake news and whatnot.

 

I went looking for any updated news on the topic and found this recent bit:

 

https://www.sagaftra.org/sag-aftra-holds-largest-rally-video-game-strike-0

 

edit: Interesting how they wound up at the La Brea Tar Pits.

Edited February 6, 2017 by dr_mike

[SithKoriandr]

We have someone in general chat who's swearing up and down that there was no such strike, voice actors aren't in any sort of union and how we're all spreading lies and fake news and whatnot.

 

I went looking for any updated news on the topic and found this recent bit:

 

https://www.sagaftra.org/sag-aftra-holds-largest-rally-video-game-strike-0

 

edit: Interesting how they wound up at the La Brea Tar Pits.

 

As a member of a union and a member of a union who's leaders just ran off after not only screwing over the union members but stealing money from the union, I kinda laugh when they say...

 

"Fair for both sides" when they likely have no care for the companies making the game and when they say "Meet us half way" when I have no doubt the union doesn't want them to meet half way. Even had a shop steward who's idea of a contract was, screw the one that benefited all the employees and waited until she got what was best for her and a couple others only at the cost of hundreds.

 

This union, I have a feeling, is no different, than any of those people. Making me wonder if this strike will end at all. Especially when the companies appear to be able to get talent VAs who aren't part of the union.