"Forced" ranked "arena" play for gear

[Jadescythe]

I would like to know if ranked gives you more or less than doing an operation. If less, what is the ratio.

 

You're comparing apples to oranges and depending on the player this could vary wildly. A ranked arena takes like 30 minutes max? While 30 minutes might only get you through trash to the first boss of an operation. So it really is a question of how many arenas you would have to do to equal a single operation. Also of note, doing story mode provides less cxp than nightmare.

[Icykill_]

You're comparing apples to oranges and depending on the player this could vary wildly. A ranked arena takes like 30 minutes max? While 30 minutes might only get you through trash to the first boss of an operation. So it really is a question of how many arenas you would have to do to equal a single operation. Also of note, doing story mode provides less cxp than nightmare.

 

I don't disagree, I just want to know the ratio.... ie if I queue for ranked and it pops twice in one hour and you only get 10 command XP (as an example)... so that's 20 command XP

But I can do an operation and get 30 Command XP per Op and I do 2 of those in an hour.. so that's 60 command XP..

I guess what I'm trying to work out is will queuing for ranked and waiting around for it to possible pop a waste of time if you can get 3 times more command points doing an operation,

Sure you still have to form an operation group, but once you are going then there is a good chance of it finishing and guaranteeing you those points. Where as if you are waiting for pvp pops, you may get 1 or 2 in the same time, but there is no guarantee you will get a third.

Comes down to time vs investment vs fun vs boredom vs preferred game play vs pve people out gearing pvp people in pvp.

[CrownofGold]

So they want endgame pvpers to do endgame pvp content to get endgame gear faster, now tell me how that logic fails?!

 

Fact: you shouldn't even think about setting foot in ranked unless you have the highest level of PVP gear available, fully augmented, and have a thick skin.

 

Not sure how people will accomplish this...that means waiting until you have Command level 100 and some how magically the RNG Gods jizzled all over you and you got the gear you needed.

 

Likely? No!

[JargoFett]

I don't disagree, I just want to know the ratio.... ie if I queue for ranked and it pops twice in one hour and you only get 10 command XP (as an example)... so that's 20 command XP

But I can do an operation and get 30 Command XP per Op and I do 2 of those in an hour.. so that's 60 command XP..

I guess what I'm trying to work out is will queuing for ranked and waiting around for it to possible pop a waste of time if you can get 3 times more command points doing an operation,

Sure you still have to form an operation group, but once you are going then there is a good chance of it finishing and guaranteeing you those points. Where as if you are waiting for pvp pops, you may get 1 or 2 in the same time, but there is no guarantee you will get a third.

Comes down to time vs investment vs fun vs boredom vs preferred game play vs pve people out gearing pvp people in pvp.

 

Yea, but as said most people don't know what the ratio is yet since obviously Bioware hasn't announced it yet. I'd say after the stream on Thursday, there'll be more information given about this possibly but I personally don't think they'll give out specific ratios for anything until closer to release date so I would say not to expect information about exact ratios of RWZ to regs, and conversion ratios of WZ comms and crystals.

 

Obviously, there'll be speculation as to what they'll be and maybe someone will datamine some info from the PTS build but once again, I doubt it.

[Icykill_]

Fact: you shouldn't even think about setting foot in ranked unless you have the highest level of PVP gear available, fully augmented, and have a thick skin.

 

Not sure how people will accomplish this...that means waiting until you have Command level 100 and some how magically the RNG Gods jizzled all over you and you got the gear you needed.

 

Likely? No!

 

It will be like when they implemented conquest for pvp and DvL... all the underskillled and under qualified pve people will queue ranked to get gear faster... it will be a train wreak and the quality of skilled players will be diluted by bad to mediocre players.

If that wasn't bad enough, I've seen no information to say they are changing the way ratings are calculated in ranked. Which means if you still lose points for every loss and you get all these muppets who should never even attempt ranked constantly destroying your rating, then what's the point of ranked except to grind gear faster. Ratings and seasons won't mean anything.

Not only that, but most people won't be geared correctly, those that are will rage at them and tell them not to queue, some people will do 5 times more ranked matches than others and still be under geared from no fault of their own because of this stupid RNG system.

The rage, toxicity, frustration and discouragement this will bring is likely to drive the last remaining dedicated pvpers from the game.

[Icykill_]

Yea, but as said most people don't know what the ratio is yet since obviously Bioware hasn't announced it yet. I'd say after the stream on Thursday, there'll be more information given about this possibly but I personally don't think they'll give out specific ratios for anything until closer to release date so I would say not to expect information about exact ratios of RWZ to regs, and conversion ratios of WZ comms and crystals.

 

Obviously, there'll be speculation as to what they'll be and maybe someone will datamine some info from the PTS build but once again, I doubt it.

 

No harm in them saying a normal pvp match will give you 5 command XP, a ranked pvp match will give you 20 command XP and an operation will give you 60 command XP (or what ever the figures are)

 

We can all work out the ratios that apply to us there. I don't understand why they "dribble" this information out to us over weeks, when they already have the info. All it does is infuriate people and cause massive arguments and rage.

 

it seems there are lots of things that they haven't completely thought through, but this should be no surprise to us. When has Bioware every implemented a good idea through to its conclusion... most of the time they only half finish it.

[ToMyMa]

Here I was, on a nice vacation and all, and I see this huge mess of a system Bioware managed to cook up. I have absolutely zero understanding why ANYONE in their right mind can defend Galactic Command in favour of a fair and logical gear progression. I'm baffled at the apparent incompetence showcased by Bioware here - this certainly eclipses anything else they've ever mucked up before. Edited October 18, 2016 by ToMyMa

[JargoFett]

No harm in them saying a normal pvp match will give you 5 command XP, a ranked pvp match will give you 20 command XP and an operation will give you 60 command XP (or what ever the figures are)

 

We can all work out the ratios that apply to us there. I don't understand why they "dribble" this information out to us over weeks, when they already have the info. All it does is infuriate people and cause massive arguments and rage.

 

it seems there are lots of things that they haven't completely thought through, but this should be no surprise to us. When has Bioware every implemented a good idea through to its conclusion... most of the time they only half finish it.

 

Mainly, I think it's meant to entice people to want to know more though it always seems to have more of the effect of frustrating everyone as you said.

 

I they just do this dribble of information because of the retaliation against them when they used to release information in-mass because their ideas were "dumb" so I think they do these overviews so they can get ideas to base the details around.

 

I do also agree that I feel like Bioware gets a good idea then the fact they're on a schedule messes it up. Much in the case of Bolster. Bolster I believe was meant to be the way it is currently in midbie PvP and hopefully will be in 5.0 but unfortunately, it has been broken since launch realistically so I don't know how well that'll work.

 

However, they do have some bad ideas that don't need to be implemented. Such as being unable to stop people from capping with AoEs or this recent change to Assassin's by removing phasewalk or even these new RNG-based gear boxes. All terrible ideas that shouldn't be implemented.

[kaydash]

1) No one is "forcing" players to do any kind of specific endgame content for gear. They literally spent development money to make a UI for all the endgame content that can be done for that; and regs is one of them.

 

2) Gearing (unless you're going the crafting non-set bonus route) is entirely RNG dependent. Even in the unlikely case that people start doing NiM ops as soon as they hit 70 to get gear faster, it doesn't mean they'll get every piece of gear they need. You could very well be doing just regs, or even heroics, and be lucky enough to get a full top tier set over someone unlucky enough to grind ranked 4's or NiM and get the same BoP chestpiece over and over

 

3) If experience and the smack that people talk here is anything to go by, no amount of gear difference is going to save hardcore pve'ers from people who know how to play objectives, know how to play against every class, or (god forbid) premades.

 

4) This is just speculation since I don't think they've revealed how much CXP exactly everything's worth, but I think they did mention that basically the more people in the content you're doing, the more CXP you'll be awarded. And regs are basically groups of 16 people, so I can't imagine they'll be worth that much less than, say HM FPs or Uprisings

 

5) Warzone commendations are used to buy endgame pvp gear. I don't think they'll be converted to credits, and more like maybe tokens that grant a certain amount of CXP. What they did mention is that the mod vendors that sell leveling gear will use credits as currency, not endgame gear. That said, I wouldn't put it past BW to do something as lame as comms-to-credits.

 

6) If bolster is still a thing pre-70, there's no reason to be worrying about an item level difference from the get-go since you'll just be bolstered to 70 if you have all slots equipped anyway.

[Jherad]

This is what happens when the 'PvP team's' entire understanding of PvP comes from having the concept described to them by someone else who was terrible at PVP.

 

The groupthink in Bioware must be of epic proportions. Given the community reaction to these changes, if *nobody* in Bioware was raising their hand and saying 'ummm guys this sounds awful', then they have a huge cultural problem.

[Icykill_]

This is what happens when the 'PvP team's' entire understanding of PvP comes from having the concept described to them by someone else who was terrible at PVP.

 

The groupthink in Bioware must be of epic proportions. Given the community reaction to these changes, if *nobody* in Bioware was raising their hand and saying 'ummm guys this sounds awful', then they have a huge cultural problem.

 

If only they ever bothered to consult with their players

[Icykill_]

1) No one is "forcing" players to do any kind of specific endgame content for gear. They literally spent development money to make a UI for all the endgame content that can be done for that; and regs is one of them.

 

2) Gearing (unless you're going the crafting non-set bonus route) is entirely RNG dependent. Even in the unlikely case that people start doing NiM ops as soon as they hit 70 to get gear faster, it doesn't mean they'll get every piece of gear they need. You could very well be doing just regs, or even heroics, and be lucky enough to get a full top tier set over someone unlucky enough to grind ranked 4's or NiM and get the same BoP chestpiece over and over

 

3) If experience and the smack that people talk here is anything to go by, no amount of gear difference is going to save hardcore pve'ers from people who know how to play objectives, know how to play against every class, or (god forbid) premades.

 

4) This is just speculation since I don't think they've revealed how much CXP exactly everything's worth, but I think they did mention that basically the more people in the content you're doing, the more CXP you'll be awarded. And regs are basically groups of 16 people, so I can't imagine they'll be worth that much less than, say HM FPs or Uprisings

 

5) Warzone commendations are used to buy endgame pvp gear. I don't think they'll be converted to credits, and more like maybe tokens that grant a certain amount of CXP. What they did mention is that the mod vendors that sell leveling gear will use credits as currency, not endgame gear. That said, I wouldn't put it past BW to do something as lame as comms-to-credits.

 

6) If bolster is still a thing pre-70, there's no reason to be worrying about an item level difference from the get-go since you'll just be bolstered to 70 if you have all slots equipped anyway.

 

But we like to worry... it gives us something to look forward too when there is ambiguous announcements and dribbled information from Bioware.

It wouldn't hurt them to just give it to us in one hit. Full disclosure would prevent so much of that "smack talk" and arguing in these forums. Plus all the rage we project at Bioware.

[kaydash]

But we like to worry... it gives us something to look forward too when there is ambiguous announcements and dribbled information from Bioware.

It wouldn't hurt them to just give it to us in one hit. Full disclosure would prevent so much of that "smack talk" and arguing in these forums. Plus all the rage we project at Bioware.

 

They like to give it to us slowly. Lube us up properly and give it to us little by little. It'll just hurt us and make us cry if they did it all in one go

[-Bob-]

Imagine how toxic it's going to get because people are still trying to gear or aren't even really qualified to play ranked..

 

Eh its possible but i think that will depend on the valor threshold, if it's high then that might help weed out lots of the PVE community.

We'll definitely see the valor boost from CM sell like crazy. Wouldn't doubt if they increased the amount of boost it gives so they could justify raising the cost of them haha

[Icykill_]

Mainly, I think it's meant to entice people to want to know more though it always seems to have more of the effect of frustrating everyone as you said.

 

I they just do this dribble of information because of the retaliation against them when they used to release information in-mass because their ideas were "dumb" so I think they do these overviews so they can get ideas to base the details around.

 

I do also agree that I feel like Bioware gets a good idea then the fact they're on a schedule messes it up. Much in the case of Bolster. Bolster I believe was meant to be the way it is currently in midbie PvP and hopefully will be in 5.0 but unfortunately, it has been broken since launch realistically so I don't know how well that'll work.

 

However, they do have some bad ideas that don't need to be implemented. Such as being unable to stop people from capping with AoEs or this recent change to Assassin's by removing phasewalk or even these new RNG-based gear boxes. All terrible ideas that shouldn't be implemented.

 

It their ideas are dumb... just rip the band aid off I say... then we can rage for a week instead of raging every week till launch.. at least they'll know how to prepare for it when it goes live.

[Icykill_]

Eh its possible but i think that will depend on the valor threshold, if it's high then that might help weed out lots of the PVE community.

We'll definitely see the valor boost from CM sell like crazy. Wouldn't doubt if they increased the amount of boost it gives so they could justify raising the cost of them haha

 

Yeah, 75 -80 Valor... they just need to link it to legacy

 

It's actually easy to currently hit Valor 65 as soon as you hit 65... it only takes a few WZs per lvl to do it... mines always maxed before I'm even a quarter through the lvl.. if they increased the speed, they'd need to allow your Valor to exceed your lvl before you even got to 70 or what's the point... lol.. I'd be 100 Valor by lvl 60

Edited October 19, 2016 by Icykill_

[TechTheHic]

Didn't they say its all craftable just without set bonuses? No need to worry. Set bonuses are nice but not THAT huge of an advantage.

[Jherad]

Didn't they say its all craftable just without set bonuses? No need to worry. Set bonuses are nice but not THAT huge of an advantage.

 

In PvP? Set bonuses are *huge*, at least for burst specs. Merc autocrit on Heatseeker is a *big* part of PvP for that class.

[TechTheHic]

In PvP? Set bonuses are *huge*, at least for burst specs. Merc autocrit on Heatseeker is a *big* part of PvP for that class.

 

Well; you are right about that now that I think about it, but I was thinking compared to now where you go in without the bonuses as well as lower stats. The RNG is what I don't like and essentially turning it into a constant grind having to level these levels for crates after max level. I mean 100 F'ing levels before you even start getting the top tier gear?

 

Pretty much the one thing I liked about SWTOR was that I could leave and come back and get back into it quickly. Not now. Guess they forgot how that worked out at launch with bags. So excited to have 5 pairs of battlemaster boots

Edited October 19, 2016 by TechTheHic

[Inexistt]

This is what happens when the 'PvP team's' entire understanding of PvP comes from having the concept described to them by someone else who was terrible at PVP.

 

The groupthink in Bioware must be of epic proportions. Given the community reaction to these changes, if *nobody* in Bioware was raising their hand and saying 'ummm guys this sounds awful', then they have a huge cultural problem.

 

^^^^^

[Icykill_]

Didn't they say its all craftable just without set bonuses? No need to worry. Set bonuses are nice but not THAT huge of an advantage.

 

These benign sounding statements are never as easy as they seem

 

That seems way too easy for Bioware... I wonder where the small clause usually at the bottom of the page is hiding..

 

Let's see... here's a good clause that we won't find out about till it releases...

 

You won't be able to get the crafting recipes without being capped at the top CXP... but even then it will be a random drop.. so it will be a super rare crafting recipe and people will charge 5mil per item...

you'll also need to do 5 different OPS to create 1 mat and you'll need 10 of these mats to make one item...

plus the recipe will be BoP and your cybertech crafter will only get synthweave recipes and your synthweave will get Biotech...

 

You watch, this statement they've made about craftable items will end up being worse than grinding the gear...

We will have to jump through 20 hoops to get the so called crafted gear..

 

I'd love to be proven wrong, but my expectations are in the gutter... I've seen nothing from them to expect anything better.

 

.

[BarrinMarshall]

It will be like when they implemented conquest for pvp and DvL... all the underskillled and under qualified pve people will queue ranked to get gear faster... it will be a train wreak and the quality of skilled players will be diluted by bad to mediocre players.

If that wasn't bad enough, I've seen no information to say they are changing the way ratings are calculated in ranked. Which means if you still lose points for every loss and you get all these muppets who should never even attempt ranked constantly destroying your rating, then what's the point of ranked except to grind gear faster. Ratings and seasons won't mean anything.

Not only that, but most people won't be geared correctly, those that are will rage at them and tell them not to queue, some people will do 5 times more ranked matches than others and still be under geared from no fault of their own because of this stupid RNG system.

The rage, toxicity, frustration and discouragement this will bring is likely to drive the last remaining dedicated pvpers from the game.

 

Pretty much nailed it with this post Icy.

[BarrinMarshall]

This is what happens when the 'PvP team's' entire understanding of PvP comes from having the concept described to them by someone else who was terrible at PVP.

 

The groupthink in Bioware must be of epic proportions. Given the community reaction to these changes, if *nobody* in Bioware was raising their hand and saying 'ummm guys this sounds awful', then they have a huge cultural problem.

 

Quoted because this post needs more recognition.

[Transcendent]

These benign sounding statements are never as easy as they seem

 

That seems way too easy for Bioware... I wonder where the small clause usually at the bottom of the page is hiding..

 

Let's see... here's a good clause that we won't find out about till it releases...

 

You won't be able to get the crafting recipes without being capped at the top CXP

 

Well, you'll probably have to partake in the whole GC thing to get the higher level schematics for crafting, as well as the materials for crafting.

 

The whole system is also completely against any player who doesn't subscribe to the game, so any f2p / pref player who possibly could play in PvP (even if once per week), now can no longer gain the end-game gear. Even if they have Artifact Equipment Auth, they still can't buy the gear with WZ comms, as it'll only be RNG dropping with GC levels (which we have little info on).

 

That's the other thing that concerns me, GC levels. What amount of participation is required to gain a level? How many levels are there? Are they increasing amounts of CXP per level? Is there a weekly cap?

 

We've literally been given driblets 6 weeks in advance, with no pertinent information aside from moving to RNG gearing from progression gearing and the removal of expertise. PvP players will have 3 grinds compared to the 2 grinds for PvE players. We also have to contend with Valor per character if we wish to use that character for Ranked PvP. As well as already being at a gearing disadvantage from the start of the new season incoming with 5.0.

 

I really don't think BioWare have given this serious thought process, if they have? Then that doesn't paint them in a good light.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Transcendent