Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne

[Rizenfell]

Hello Eric,

<snip>

• Will the gear from command crates only be relative to the players current advanced class discipline
  

<snip>

 

I'll take a crack at these!

<snip>

• It is based on Advanced Class, not Discipline.
  

<snip>

 

I was wondering if you could clarify a little more? Is there any risk of a Command Crate dropping Tank gear for my Advanced Prototype (DPS) Powertech?

 

Right now on my Advanced Prototype (DPS) Powertech keeps getting 208 Tank gear drops, which is useless. The same happens in some other classes where the wrong type of gear drops for the discipline I have chosen.

 

Cheers and thanks.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Rizenfell

[Tanitha]

I was wondering if you could clarify a little more? Is there any risk of a Command Crate dropping Tank gear for my Advanced Prototype (DPS) Powertech?

 

Right now on my Advanced Prototype (DPS) Powertech keeps getting 208 Tank gear drops, which is useless. The same happens in some other classes where the wrong type of gear drops for the discipline I have chosen.

 

Cheers and thanks.

 

They made it Discipline, it was on last night's LiveStream.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Tanitha

[omaan]

Hey folks,

 

One of the things we talked a bit about on the stream is that there are gearing changes happening with Knights of the Eternal Throne. This thread is meant to give you a few more details on some of the things that will be happening in KOTET, along with being a place that I can address questions or concerns you have with these changes. First, here are the details on how gearing will work at level 70:

• Once you hit level 70, the source of end-game gear will be Command Crates from Galactic Command.
  
• Most activities in the game will earn Command Experience Points (CXP), which will earn you Command Ranks. Each time your Command Rank increases, you earn a Command Crate.
  
• The higher your Command Rank, the better gear that will drop from your Command Crates.
  
• The highest difficulty Operations and Uprisings, along with Ranked Warzones are intended to be the fastest ways to earn CXP. This means they are the fastest way to get the best gear.
  
• Both PvP and PvE gear will come from Command Crates. Their gear is now shared as Expertise is being removed (head to this thread to discuss PvP/PvE itemization specifically).
  
• Gear will no longer drop from bosses as all gear will come from Command Crates. All cosmetic/unique drops will still remain on those bosses (Stronghold Decorations, Wings of the Architect, etc.).
  
• Players will be able to craft comparable item level gear without set bonuses.
  

That should cover most of the basic changes coming to itemization in KOTET. I know this is a lot to take in, so please ask any questions you may have in this thread and I will work to answer what I can!

 

-eric

 

 

 

I have a seriouse question - iam a pvp player and i hate pve and ranked pvp fights, i see that this game treats pve much better than pvp (just check how pve guilds through pve activity get much more conquest points even on PVE planets) so, won't pve players have an opportunity to get the best gear through pve than pvp player through pvp? I don't want to be killed on warzones by pve players just because pve activity gives more crates with best gear! I hope you will treat pvp and pve activity equal? So both pve and pvp players coould get the best gear approximately during same period and wont force pvp players to do pve for best gear...because conquest system is a total fail and pve gives much more points than pvp even on pvp planets....

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I have a seriouse question - iam a pvp player and i hate pve and ranked pvp fights, i see that this game treats pve much better than pvp (just check how pve guilds through pve activity get much more conquest points even on PVE planets) so, won't pve players have an opportunity to get the best gear through pve than pvp player through pvp? I don't want to be killed on warzones by pve players just because pve activity gives more crates with best gear! I hope you will treat pvp and pve activity equal? So both pve and pvp players coould get the best gear approximately during same period and wont force pvp players to do pve for best gear...because conquest system is a total fail and pve gives much more points than pvp even on pvp planets....

 

While Individual Operations might give more CP XP than say a warzone match, you have to bare two things in mind. Firstly if your doing, let's TOS HM, that's going to take a significantly longer amount of time to complete compared to the time warzones take to complete. Secondly, Operations have one week lock outs, WZs you can do all day and night, so in reality, it will be much faster to earn CP XP doing wzs [more than one] than doing operations. There are a finite amount of operations that can be done in a week, you could do 100s of warzones in the course of a week limited only by a persons free time to play the game [this applies equally to the amount of time a person has to do operations as well.].

Edited October 21, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Elssha]

I was wondering if you could clarify a little more? Is there any risk of a Command Crate dropping Tank gear for my Advanced Prototype (DPS) Powertech?

 

Right now on my Advanced Prototype (DPS) Powertech keeps getting 208 Tank gear drops, which is useless. The same happens in some other classes where the wrong type of gear drops for the discipline I have chosen.

 

Cheers and thanks.

They backed off from this yesterday -- it will now drop gear for the discipline you are when opening the box

[BowtieJones]

We did get a little bit of good news in yesterday's stream. Apparently, they really do read our comments. Instead of total RNG for the gear crates, based only on advanced class, causing dps to get tank gear, they are changing it to give gear based on your toon's current spec.

 

That's a good thing. And it happened only because the player base pointed out a huge flaw. We'll done, folks!

 

We also got confirmation that the armorings will be removable, making gearing mirror classes the same as it is now. Earpiece, implants, and relics excluded, as soon as one toon is geared, your other mirror toons will be as well, provided you have legacy main and off hands available.

 

I don't believe they will scrub the idea of RNG packs. Those things, as much as we all hate them, will happen. They have, however, demonstrated the ability to listen. What else should they listen about?

 

I wouldn't be opposed to command ranking being legacy bound, instead of per character.

 

I have lots and lots of toons. Lots. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with the prospect of gearing them all.

 

I'm a pvp'er. The way gearing works for me now is pretty awesome. The moment I ding 65 on a new toon, I send myself ~30k warzone Comms, and ~3mill credits. Instant 208 fully augmented. It's a great world for an alt loving maniac, such as myself.

 

If command rank was legacy, instead of per toon, I wouldn't be able to gear as fast as above, but I'd not have to slog through however many levels of command ranks they end up settling on. The first time, yes. But not a couple dozen times. I'd still be slowly gaining set bonus gear, but at least it'd be the good stuff.

 

Since we can't even gain command xp with toons below 70, I believe this would be a wise and welcome qol change. This will make alt playing pvp'ers a bit more comfortable, and would also help the raiding community, allowing them to hop on a different toon, to fill a needed slot in a raid.

 

Thoughts?

Love and respect,

[Elssha]

Eric...

Please tell us how you guys plan to mitigate gearing and playing alts when this system seems to punish you (by wasting points vs adding them towards the next drop) for doing anything on alts.

• Will he points have the same option as WZ comms, in that you can convert them to legacy tokens and give them to the chraracter you want... so if you do things on an alt you don't need gear on you can pass it to one(s) that actually NEED it - or so that once you grid out your main you can help gear alts you need good gear on for raiding
  
• Can you confirm that the armorings won't be locked behind a command level requirement, so that our raiding clone alts will be able to use the gear when needed
  
• can you confirm what comes in each box? 1 armoring? 2 like in heroics? An armoring and a boost/cube/etc?
  
• can we get legacy-bound left side shells? Maybe?
  
• Can we get a weapon slot in our outfit designer? I really want to use the cool looking CM weapons on my toons, but don't since using them would mean constantly ripping the innards out and out between every raid...
  

[IanArgent]

While Individual Operations might give more CP XP than say a warzone match, you have to bare two things in mind. Firstly if your doing, let's TOS HM, that's going to take a significantly longer amount of time to complete compared to the time warzones take to complete. Secondly, Operations have one week lock outs, WZs you can do all day and night, so in reality, it will be much faster to earn CP XP doing wzs [more than one] than doing operations. There are a finite amount of operations that can be done in a week, you could do 100s of warzones in the course of a week limited only by a persons free time to play the game [this applies equally to the amount of time a person has to do operations as well.].

 

For the HM+ Ops vs SM Ops argument, I'm pretty sure they misstated themselves, and that the "CXP per hour" rate of playing HM+ Ops will exceed the "CXP per hour" rate of playing "lesser" content. They know what the average completion rates of each Op and Mode are; and have stated that it's not finishing the Op that grants the rewards, but clearing mobs and bosses inside the ops.

 

As for quickly repeatable content vs content with daily or weekly lockouts - I will not be surprised if they tie the majority of the CXP gains to the daily/weekly missions tied to WZs and GSF matches, and that doing the actual matches awards similar to downing mobs in ops.

[Elssha]

Eric...

Please tell us how you guys plan to mitigate gearing and playing alts when this system seems to punish you (by wasting points vs adding them towards the next drop) for doing anything on alts.

• Will he points have the same option as WZ comms, in that you can convert them to legacy tokens and give them to the chraracter you want... so if you do things on an alt you don't need gear on you can pass it to one(s) that actually NEED it - or so that once you grid out your main you can help gear alts you need good gear on for raiding
  
• Can you confirm that the armorings won't be locked behind a command level requirement, so that our raiding clone alts will be able to use the gear when needed
  
• can you confirm what comes in each box? 1 armoring? 2 like in heroics? An armoring and a boost/cube/etc?
  
• can we get legacy-bound left side shells? Maybe?
  
• Can we get a weapon slot in our outfit designer? I really want to use the cool looking CM weapons on my toons, but don't since using them would mean constantly ripping the innards out and out between every raid...
  

 

Also, a good system might be to simply do what GSF did.

For every (say) 10 levels you get on any character, you gain one level for all your alts (so a new toon would start at lvl 10, not one, assuming your main went up to 100), then when IT reached 20 your next alt would start from 11 and so on.

It would still keep the grind, but it would lessen the lag time for people with a LOT of alts to get up into top tier gear.

[Jedi_riches]

You will still get gear from all of the normal sources pre-70. Flashpoint bosses, Mission drops, etc. The only exception is that you can no longer get gear for Commendations. The planetary vendors which sold mods for Commendations will now do so for credits instead.

 

-eric

 

Just had a thought, what is happening to the pvp weapons vendor, the moddable weapons from there is like the only reason I pvp at all because I dislike the default lightsaber model and pretty much all cartel sabers and since you removed the rest of the equipment vendors it the only place I can get a decent moddable lightsaber for a reasonable price.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Jedi_riches

[Phill]

I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly....

 

In theory, a player can receive BiS gear without ever stepping foot into a ops or warzone? if this is true, I'm am truly baffled.

[TX_Angel]

I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly....

 

In theory, a player can receive BiS gear without ever stepping foot into a ops or warzone? if this is true, I'm am truly baffled.

 

You understand correctly...

 

You're not alone in being baffled, Bioware/EA seems determined to test the idea that it is cheaper to get all new customers than to try and keep the existing customers...

 

I think they'll be disappointed, but it is their game to try it with...

[robertthebard]

You understand correctly...

 

You're not alone in being baffled, Bioware/EA seems determined to test the idea that it is cheaper to get all new customers than to try and keep the existing customers...

 

I think they'll be disappointed, but it is their game to try it with...

 

What truly baffles me is why anyone cares what someone that won't be in their group has, or doesn't have. Of course, I've been called out about asking this before, since it's so obvious that that's not what they're caring about, and yet, here we are again, riding the crazy train because someone else might get something someone doesn't think they deserve.

[Jedi_riches]

What truly baffles me is why anyone cares what someone that won't be in their group has, or doesn't have. Of course, I've been called out about asking this before, since it's so obvious that that's not what they're caring about, and yet, here we are again, riding the crazy train because someone else might get something someone doesn't think they deserve.

 

I still wonder about the speed as to when you gain levels, I doubt some casual players will even be able to get top ranked gear for quite a while if not doing stuff like operations.

 

I tried soloing a SF in 208 gear and a level 30 companion and I stiff failed at the final hurdle, I would have loved the chance to have had easier access to higher level gear so that I could complete that without help, can anyone tell me who I would really be hurting by getting better gear to allow me to do what I want in the game?

[Tsillah]

What truly baffles me is why anyone cares what someone that won't be in their group has, or doesn't have. Of course, I've been called out about asking this before, since it's so obvious that that's not what they're caring about, and yet, here we are again, riding the crazy train because someone else might get something someone doesn't think they deserve.

 

Well, personally (and I am a raider) I am fine with anybody being able to get max gear no matter what they do.

 

What I'm not sure of is how this will affect group play overall.

 

My concern lies in the concept that people will try to find the easiest way. Once this is established, this will become the norm. So, if for example, story chapters and heroics are very much viable on a point-per-hour basis, the following consideration comes to me. Now let's assume that SM ops give more points-per-hour but you have to deal with getting a group, people going afk, etc. so actually in reality it may be less effective to do SM ops and at least less of a headache.

 

If that's the situation, I would feel much better off doing heroics and story chapters. Of course then BWA look at their metrics and think: oh, people love the story and heroic quests. Well, no, they're just the most pain free way of getting points. That doesn't mean I like it.

 

So for me as a HM/NiM raider (although I also enjoy many other things in the game), I might feel that it's best to avoid SM ops (unlesss it's a guild group) and focus on solo content to get ready for HM ops.

 

Now, something like this may well be the reality of it and I am not sure if that's a positive change.

[KnightOfTython]

What I'm not sure of is how this will affect group play overall.

 

My concern lies in the concept that people will try to find the easiest way. Once this is established, this will become the norm.

 

Exactly, and since there is not really any content that requires the end game gear there is no need or motivation for casuals to power level CXP anyway. Raiding is dead.

[indelible]

Hey folks,

 

One of the things we talked a bit about on the stream is that there are gearing changes happening with Knights of the Eternal Throne. This thread is meant to give you a few more details on some of the things that will be happening in KOTET, along with being a place that I can address questions or concerns you have with these changes. First, here are the details on how gearing will work at level 70:

• Once you hit level 70, the source of end-game gear will be Command Crates from Galactic Command.
  
• Most activities in the game will earn Command Experience Points (CXP), which will earn you Command Ranks. Each time your Command Rank increases, you earn a Command Crate.
  
• The higher your Command Rank, the better gear that will drop from your Command Crates.
  
• The highest difficulty Operations and Uprisings, along with Ranked Warzones are intended to be the fastest ways to earn CXP. This means they are the fastest way to get the best gear.
  
• Both PvP and PvE gear will come from Command Crates. Their gear is now shared as Expertise is being removed (head to this thread to discuss PvP/PvE itemization specifically).
  
• Gear will no longer drop from bosses as all gear will come from Command Crates. All cosmetic/unique drops will still remain on those bosses (Stronghold Decorations, Wings of the Architect, etc.).
  
• Players will be able to craft comparable item level gear without set bonuses.
  

That should cover most of the basic changes coming to itemization in KOTET. I know this is a lot to take in, so please ask any questions you may have in this thread and I will work to answer what I can!

 

-eric

 

Personally, I think this is the biggest mistake you guys have made with SWTOR. I don't think you really understand the psychology involved in killing bosses for loot drops; it's time tested and evidenced. Other games have taken this approach, and then switched their systems back as player numbers dropped and the negatives of RNG loot-crate systems became apparent.

 

I mean, we ALL know what this is really about, and it has literally nothing to do with improving gear acquisition. If there is another SWTOR expansion, which I highly doubt at this point, you'll be reversing this decision.

[tonitirola]

since they came out with what will happen after 5.0 with the game i totally lost my enjoyment in the game i love.

i alrdy did cancel my sub ( 3 years permanent ) when i heared no new ops coming in future so in december i will be prefered.

i dont see any reason to sub anymore in this game as no new content since 2 years .

but the main reason was all them very very bad expansions in past and contents they made like ds-ls event,eternal championship,........and sadly many more in this list.

 

and i also dont give a f..... if i cant get the best gear anymore as a prefered cause its not worth it and better spend my money on another game or whatever.

but for sure i dont support a company anymore which doesnt listen to their players/customers.

 

 

we have the power and may the force be with us

[KnightOfTython]

Players will be able to craft comparable item level gear without set bonuses.

 

And if you really want to make people raiding, then you would make 1 special rare mats bind on pick up.

Then many other players would at least go raiding for the mats and not for CXP that you get for any activity anyway.

 

But 5.0 does not even have one single teaser to go raiding ...

Edited October 22, 2016 by KnightOfTython

[Zasszz]

I'll go even one further...

 

Why have gear at all? I mean seriously? We get scaled down if we do lower level content. We get scaled up if we do higher level content. In all seriousness, is there really a point. Just make us grind the CXP and as we level it, we can set our set bonuses and secondary stats like an alternate advancement...

 

Sure crafting would have to be reworked, but I don't think they ever really took crafting seriously as a dev team anyways...

The gear we gain while leveling is to make it playable. The gear we gain access to at max level is for raiding and difficult group content like flashpoints or group missions (the few that are left). The scaling down concept was intended so we dont fight gray mobs wherever we go. Leveling would be much more boring and longer because there would be no XP gain outside of quests.

 

And if you really want to make people raiding, then you would make mats bind on pick up.

HELL NO! The worst system have character bound materials. It forces players to raid with all characters with building professions. It also kills part of the economy because trading mats is a great deal of content for trading players.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Zasszz

[Tsetso]

And if you really want to make people raiding, then you would make 1 special rare mats bind on pick up.

Then many other players would at least go raiding for the mats and not for CXP that you get for any activity anyway.

 

But 5.0 does not even have one single teaser to go raiding ...

 

Honestly with the changes they made putting any crafting mat on op bosses will be the same as making it bop(if the current system stays where on SM only the last boss drop DMC)

[KnightOfTython]

HELL NO! The worst system have character bound materials. It forces players to raid with all characters with building professions. It also kills part of the economy because trading mats is a great deal of content for trading players.

 

As high level crafter you have enough credits to buy mats in GTN anyway.

So it doesn't matter, but one rare mat should be bind on pickup for a reason.

 

To have one single teaser to go raiding in 5.0 ...

 

You seriously think that CXP is fun enough for grinding old content over and over again? That's hilarious.

Edited October 22, 2016 by KnightOfTython

[DarthJimilingus]

This move will kill Ops. Sure the hardcore people will still do them but now the folks who are a bit more casual won't do them AS MUCH since they can go solo and do it all themselves.

[robertthebard]

Well, personally (and I am a raider) I am fine with anybody being able to get max gear no matter what they do.

 

What I'm not sure of is how this will affect group play overall.

 

My concern lies in the concept that people will try to find the easiest way. Once this is established, this will become the norm. So, if for example, story chapters and heroics are very much viable on a point-per-hour basis, the following consideration comes to me. Now let's assume that SM ops give more points-per-hour but you have to deal with getting a group, people going afk, etc. so actually in reality it may be less effective to do SM ops and at least less of a headache.

 

Finding the easiest way is exactly why we have all these threads railing against this system. According to posters in these threads, they can be fully geared, or gear someone else, in three hours. We've been told that the fastest way to get end game gear is going to be through end game content, and since most of the hardcore raiders I know want it now, I don't think being able to eventually get everything you'd need for an end game raid through Story, FPs etc is going to be as game breaking as some would have us believe.

 

If that's the situation, I would feel much better off doing heroics and story chapters. Of course then BWA look at their metrics and think: oh, people love the story and heroic quests. Well, no, they're just the most pain free way of getting points. That doesn't mean I like it.

 

So for me as a HM/NiM raider (although I also enjoy many other things in the game), I might feel that it's best to avoid SM ops (unlesss it's a guild group) and focus on solo content to get ready for HM ops.

 

Now, something like this may well be the reality of it and I am not sure if that's a positive change.

 

I sort of touched on the general idea of this part above: If the fastest way to get this gear is going to be end game content, then the people that feel like they have to have it, and soon, are going to be raiding, or maybe Pvping, to get it.

[robertthebard]

This move will kill Ops. Sure the hardcore people will still do them but now the folks who are a bit more casual won't do them AS MUCH since they can go solo and do it all themselves.

 

This happens right now, since getting into these raids requires them to be hardcore. I wonder, how many PuG Ops are still requiring NiM ranked gear for SM? I've seen more than a few over the years, after all, put up by people that, for some reason, have opted to not run NiM, despite having the gear for it. I wonder why that is?