PvP - Annihilation

[Ryuku-sama]

I made a Mara to experiment with Annihilation... And I found I can't play it.

DoT spread doesn't seems to suit the spec. I find I lack the survivability to stay in the fray long enough to do good damage unless a healer keeps my *** safe. I burn my DCD's super quickly and can't last more than 20s in the fray, normally way less.

Single target killing with the occasional spread does better, but I can't fight anyone who isn't already at half HP and expect to win. My damage is just too slow. I get on the person, Applies DoTs, DS, BA, Ann and I die. My DCD's barely buys me 10s.

 

Anyone got advices for me?

Edited October 16, 2016 by Ryuku-sama

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I made a Mara to experiment with Annihilation... And I found I can't play it.

DoT spread doesn't seems to suit the spec. I find I lack the survivability to stay in the fray long enough to do good damage unless a healer keeps my *** safe. I burn my DCD's super quickly and can't last more than 20s in the fray, normally way less.

Single target killing with the occasional spread does better, but I can't fight anyone who isn't already at half HP and expect to win. My damage is just too slow. I get on the person, Applies DoTs, DS, BA, Ann and I die. My DCD's barely buys me 10s.

 

Anyone got advices for me?

 

Couple of things -

 

Marauder is the hardest class to do well with in PVP. They have very good damage potential, but they are sorely lacking in certain things that lend well to PVP, namely -

 

Self-heals - This is a big one, every other class in the game save for Sniper has some form of self heals, while as an Annihilation marauder you do have some small measure of self-heals, it is very small in comparison to the self heals of other classes. Now some people will tell you that your have some of the best DCDs in the game, and you do, however, DCDs cannot take focus from multiple sources at the same time and be very effective. In PVP incoming damage from multiple sources is the norm. You are fighting Joe Jugg, Joe Assassin is stabbing you in the back, Joe Sniper is blowing the left side of your face off while Joe Merc is laying down AOE under your feet. - There is no DCD, no two DCDs at the same time that will keep you up for very long under those conditions. The only DCD that will be effective for that is Undying rage, but the duration is far too short and the cool down far too long for this to get you through a warzone, You'll get maybe 12-16 seconds out of it over the course of your average match.

 

CCs - We dont have many, and many other classes have quite a few more than we do, add to that we have one CC breaker, two if you spec it [but that's only for movement ccs, not hard stuns] and there are classes with 3 or 4 CCs they can throw out when not on cool down. This is huge and is the most dangerous aspect of a WZ. CCs get thrown around every three seconds and you can't hope to keep up with even a tiny fraction of them. - Maras are very easily crowd controlled and everyone knows it, and in many instances you are seen as either an easy kill, or someone to take out fast because you have the potential to put out a shiz load of damage, most of the time youll be jumped by multiple enemies, one on one is far less, but even that will occur. Enemies with alot of ccs know you cant keep up with them [i.e. Assassins, Operatives, and Juggs].

 

Escapes, you have some - Predation [always spec relentless so you you can use it every 30 seconds and not have to waste stacks - you can also use pred as defensive, increasing your defense chance] , Intimidating roar [than run heh], Force Camouflage [Dont be fooled into thinking this is a DCD, it's not. If you use it and you attack you immediately lose all its effects. Save this for escapes when the pressures on you. Fortunately it has a short cool down so you can use this a lot. You always want to spec into the second "cc breaker" - Unbound, this will shake off any movement impairing effects which will happen to you constantly. You can also spec into the mad dash dash utility that will also help in this regard but I wouldn't recommend it because there are other utilities more important generally speaking.

 

Force Choke is your best friend. Use right before your most hard hitting attacks to help insure they will land. You can also use it as an interrupt or an escape but I'd save it for landing attacks for the most part.

 

Stick with the group as much as possible, you don't want to be caught out there alone, you'll just make yourself a target and you'll get mauled. Look for opponents who are already hurt and prioritize them, but, you are more than capable of taking down a full health enemy as well [Avoid sorc healers and juggs tanks/skank tanks, they are very hard to widdle down]. Use your environment to your advantage as much as possible, LOS can save your ***. If you're getting hit by ranged while your going melee with some other opponent, try to position yourself so the ranged attacker no longer has you in line of sight.

 

Healers are a maras best friend. Without a healer, you're gonna die alot. Try to keep yourself in range of your healer as much as possible, but this wont always be possible. PVP is very fast paced and can get confusing sometimes, thats true for everyone tho. Learn the maps, the best strategic areas, where heal pots are located and where there are good places to hide if you need to and wait so you can heal up.

 

Some other random general tips -

 

- You're not a tank, so don't go leaping into big groups of enemies on your own, you'll just get annihilated.

- Don't use your stun breaker the first time you get hit with CC, you can whether that if your full health, save it for when you're already hurt some and than you get hit with CC because if your lower on health that time could be the end of you if you can't get out of it.

- Don't stand in stupid [AOE] whenever possible, you see it under you, move.

- You're gonna gonna get chucked around and thrown alot, alot alot. Try and keep your back to a surface when possible and relatively safe so they can't chuck you far, this is even more important to do when your fighting a sniper. You'll get up to one, he'll chuck you half a football field away, than he'll slow you and because you can't force leap to a sniper in crouch he'll have all the time in the world to pick you off because you'll be moving so slow. When this happens, find something to break the line of sight so he can't have a field day with you while your slowed. He rolls from you, you made dash to him, he throws you, use pred and run back up to him, get yourself some place he can't chuck you far again.

- Always use obfuscate on ranged. Do not let ranged free cast.

- When fighting healers use your interrupts on them whenever possible.

- if your fighting a sorc who bubbles and is not at or under a quarter health do not waste your time with them, you can't hurt them, switch to another near by target while he's bubbled if possible.

- Use Crippling Slash. Helps to keep your enemy from getting away from you and outside your attack range and decreases 20 percent of incoming healing for them for a short duration.

- Use DST to slow enemies

- Play aggressively. You're the proverbial glass cannon, you cannot outlast an opponent but you can overwhelm them with damage. Damage is what you are about and you can deal a lot of it, it's true dead dps don't do damage, but a but an overly careful dps doesn't do enough to shift the balance. Strike fast, strike hard. If you die, you die, your just gonna come back anyways.

- Do not gaurd anything unless its absolutely necessary, maras suck at guarding. Sneakies will stun you and cap right before your eyes.

- Use cloak of pain constantly and on cooldown [if your actually fighting].

- Use your DCDs preemptively. Don't wait until your near death to use them, that wont save you. Use them to limit the damage coming in early, but don't use them at the first sign of trouble, give the healers a chance to get you up some. Just dont save them only for when you're already in trouble.

-Never stand still when you're fighting, Be constantly moving, circle your opponent as you fight [if possible] this will help to confuse them some, move right thru them so they have to turn around to face you again and just keep doing that, it can be very confusing to an opponent. Standing still makes you easier to hit and invites others to attack you.

Be unpredictable. Don't use the same tactic, stand on the same place, attack the same person over and over again. A perceptive enemy might notice this and use it against you or flat out set you up.

-Fluff damage looks nice on the warzone scoreboard at the end of the match, but doesn't do much to help your team. You want to kill an opponent, not just hurt a few of them at the same time. Of course use aoe if your among alot of enemies, but don't use it more than necessary, killing people helps the group and is what you should strive for. Better to do a little less damage over all, but kill alot more people throughout the match.

- You'll make mistakes, you'll do poorly sometimes, and who gives a crap? Do your best, pvp takes alot of getting use to and is a whole different beast that PVE. The idea is to have fun. PVP can be very toxic, it comes with the territory, don't let anything anyone says to you get you down, your playing one of the [if not thee] hardest classes in the game, it takes skill and time to develop it. It's perfectly normal and don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

- Ask for help when you need it.

- And most importantly, don't take crap from anyone. People will give you shzt, stand it like a man [or woman] and always give some back.

 

Just keep at it, it may take a while to get comfortable with the PVP environment, it did for me. Never forget its about having fun first and foremost. Playing a Marauder can be very challenging, even more so in PVP than in PVE. It can also be extremely rewarding, once you get your sea legs, I assure you, you'll be glad you stuck with it, its a blast to play.

 

Hope this helps some. Good luck to you.

[Ryuku-sama]

Marauder is the hardest class to do well with in PVP. They have very good damage potential, but they are sorely lacking in certain things that lend well to PVP, namely -

 

Damage potential, yes. It still takes forever and a half to get it going during which I'm getting melted down. I know Annihilation is decent enough. I just try to make it works.

 

Self-heals - This is a big one, every other class in the game save for Sniper has some form of self heals, while as an Annihilation marauder you do have some small measure of self-heals, it is very small in comparison to the self heals of other classes. Now some people will tell you that your have some of the best DCDs in the game, and you do, however, DCDs cannot take focus from multiple sources at the same time and be very effective. In PVP incoming damage from multiple sources is the norm. You are fighting Joe Jugg, Joe Assassin is stabbing you in the back, Joe Sniper is blowing the left side of your face off while Joe Merc is laying down AOE under your feet. - There is no DCD, no two DCDs at the same time that will keep you up for very long under those conditions. The only DCD that will be effective for that is Undying rage, but the duration is far too short and the cool down far too long for this to get you through a warzone, You'll get maybe 12-16 seconds out of it over the course of your average match.

 

CCs - We dont have many, and many other classes have quite a few more than we do, add to that we have one CC breaker, two if you spec it [but that's only for movement ccs, not hard stuns] and there are classes with 3 or 4 CCs they can throw out when not on cool down. This is huge and is the most dangerous aspect of a WZ. CCs get thrown around every three seconds and you can't hope to keep up with even a tiny fraction of them. - Maras are very easily crowd controlled and everyone knows it, and in many instances you are seen as either an easy kill, or someone to take out fast because you have the potential to put out a shiz load of damage, most of the time youll be jumped by multiple enemies, one on one is far less, but even that will occur. Enemies with alot of ccs know you cant keep up with them [i.e. Assassins, Operatives, and Juggs].

 

Escapes, you have some - Predation [always spec relentless so you you can use it every 30 seconds and not have to waste stacks - you can also use pred as defensive, increasing your defense chance] , Intimidating roar [than run heh], Force Camouflage [Dont be fooled into thinking this is a DCD, it's not. If you use it and you attack you immediately lose all its effects. Save this for escapes when the pressures on you. Fortunately it has a short cool down so you can use this a lot. You always want to spec into the second "cc breaker" - Unbound, this will shake off any movement impairing effects which will happen to you constantly. You can also spec into the mad dash dash utility that will also help in this regard but I wouldn't recommend it because there are other utilities more important generally speaking.

 

Force Choke is your best friend. Use right before your most hard hitting attacks to help insure they will land. You can also use it as an interrupt or an escape but I'd save it for landing attacks for the most part.

 

This is useful stuff to know but it is also stuff anyone know after having done a few matches, having read the tooltips and having played a few other classes.

 

Stick with the group as much as possible, you don't want to be caught out there alone, you'll just make yourself a target and you'll get mauled.

 

Yes. It works sometimes. Other times, I just get bursted down by 4-6 people because I'm a Mara among a **** ton of Jugg and Sorc.

 

Look for opponents who are already hurt and prioritize them, but, you are more than capable of taking down a full health enemy as well [Avoid sorc healers and juggs tanks/skank tanks, they are very hard to widdle down].

 

Main problem here is I'm not until I get everything rolling and my stacks up. Which takes me forever and half in Annihilation.

 

Use your environment to your advantage as much as possible, LOS can save your ***. If you're getting hit by ranged while your going melee with some other opponent, try to position yourself so the ranged attacker no longer has you in line of sight.

 

Basic situational awareness.

But it can be rather hard to do in Novare middle where the only LoS is the turret (which is rather bad) and the bunker itself, which is prime ground for AoE. Pulling some to the back is not a good idea. you don't want to lose sight of the objective. (Well I have to say I played like 3-4 Novare on 4-5 matches after I got to 65 so it is what I've seen the most).

 

- You're not a tank, so don't go leaping into big groups of enemies on your own, you'll just get annihilated.

 

Main problem here is general regs group rule : "Be a good lemming and go 1vs6 mid please."

 

- Don't use your stun breaker the first time you get hit with CC, you can whether that if your full health, save it for when you're already hurt some and than you get hit with CC because if your lower on health that time could be the end of you if you can't get out of it.

- Don't stand in stupid [AOE] whenever possible, you see it under you, move.

 

As on any other class.

 

- You're gonna gonna get chucked around and thrown alot, alot alot. Try and keep your back to a surface when possible and relatively safe so they can't chuck you far, this is even more important to do when your fighting a sniper. You'll get up to one, he'll chuck you half a football field away, than he'll slow you and because you can't force leap to a sniper in crouch he'll have all the time in the world to pick you off because you'll be moving so slow. When this happens, find something to break the line of sight so he can't have a field day with you while your slowed. He rolls from you, you made dash to him, he throws you, use pred and run back up to him, get yourself some place he can't chuck you far again.

 

That's also general rule for any melee. I've found the hard way it's even more true for Marauder.

 

- Always use obfuscate on ranged. Do not let ranged free cast.

 

I do underuse Obfuscate. But it is so weak except against MM Snipers. For any other class, you gotta time it in the middle of their ranged/melee burst phase (BB on Gunnery, once TD is poped you can expect a Mag > PS > Mag from IO, in the middle of Cull for Viru, just after Explosive Charge for Engi). It is useless on quite a few specs. And it is also very useful on melee (Carny's burst is very melee dependent, Vengeance's too).

 

- When fighting healers use your interrupts on them whenever possible.

 

Basic PvP. **** the enemy healer with everything you've got.

 

- Use Crippling Slash. Helps to keep your enemy from getting away from you and outside your attack range and decreases 20 percent of incoming healing for them for a short duration.

 

I do underuse Crippling Slash. It such a strong tool, but trying to keep track of my DoT's and usign Crippling Slash is a lot for my poor overused brain

 

- Use DST to slow enemies

 

And with Pulverize up, it's still more damage than Vicious Slash.

 

- Play aggressively. You're the proverbial glass cannon, you cannot outlast an opponent but you can overwhelm them with damage. Damage is what you are about and you can deal a lot of it, it's true dead dps don't do damage, but a but an overly careful dps doesn't do enough to shift the balance. Strike fast, strike hard. If you die, you die, your just gonna come back anyways.

 

Problem is currently I feel like a glass without any cannon.

 

- Use cloak of pain constantly and on cooldown [if your actually fighting].

- Use your DCDs preemptively. Don't wait until your near death to use them, that wont save you. Use them to limit the damage coming in early, but don't use them at the first sign of trouble, give the healers a chance to get you up some. Just dont save them only for when you're already in trouble.

-Never stand still when you're fighting, Be constantly moving, circle your opponent as you fight [if possible] this will help to confuse them some, move right thru them so they have to turn around to face you again and just keep doing that, it can be very confusing to an opponent. Standing still makes you easier to hit and invites others to attack you.

 

Again, basic PvP.

 

- Be unpredictable. Don't use the same tactic, stand on the same place, attack the same person over and over again. A perceptive enemy might notice this and use it against you or flat out set you up.

 

Any advice on that particular point???

 

- Ask for help when you need it.

 

What does it look I am doing right here and now????

 

Just keep at it, it may take a while to get comfortable with the PVP environment, it did for me. Never forget its about having fun first and foremost. Playing a Marauder can be very challenging, even more so in PVP than in PVE. It can also be extremely rewarding, once you get your sea legs, I assure you, you'll be glad you stuck with it, its a blast to play.

 

This does help some, but a lot of it is general advises anyone can give to anyone. I'm more searching for advises specific to Annihilation. How to handle specific match ups, 1vs1 and 2vs1.. How to ramp up as fast as I can. How to burst down from start (currently the best I've found is Rup > FR + DS > BA > Ann and pray you get enough pretty numbers or you've got Berserk up.)

Edited October 17, 2016 by Ryuku-sama

[Tsetso]

I find anni pretty much unplayable in pvp too, but maybe that's just me being too addicted to gravity vortex and the burst potential of fury. The ramp-up is just too slow.

[AllisonLightning]

I do play an Annihilation Marauder (my Watchman mirror is still getting up there) as my main and I do warzones with her and do quasi well. Here's the thing- we are absolute nightmares in PvE content, we are gods as far damage output and DoTs go, the spread we have cuts through enemies like butter and it's just a delight to play, even solo-ing which I've done by accident, forgetting my companion's dismissed.

 

PvP is such a reverse in fortunes, it'll give you whiplash. We're glass cannons if we're lucky enough not to just get curb stomped immediately like the free food we are. Give me a healer and I've taken down a Corruption Sorcerer and they're damned cockroaches but without one, we're a support pressure role. Locate those closer to dying and overwhelmed, jump and wham them hard, pop your group buffs as you can (Bloodlthirst/Predation) and when you can't, Berserk. Time using Frenzy.

Undying and your other defences help in a tight spot but the absolute best time to pop that ability is when you're low-ish on health or when you've got a healer looking out for you and your team. Any time you can give them a moment to regroup lets them recharge. Force Camouflage- pop this at will and in general, don't be afraid to run away to heal, especially if the other team lets you go.

 

Don't guard nodes unless you can help it in most maps, it's thankless and you will die- especially when a Stealth class sees the free food (that means you), we aren't built for it. Some matches I find everyone wants to guard and others, it's insane when the Stealth (who are the best guards) sees squishy you and thinks they can bail on the node.

 

Know your warzone. Hypergate, we can do real damage getting killed in the middle on repeat and is the only one I've found I can guard with any real luck although it depends on the other team (always type a pre-warning message to send in danger), team up and go after the other team's pylon. Do not, under any circumstances get into the middle of a chaotic mid when there's no healer and constant AoEs, you will die and feed the other team's points.

 

We are awesome at PvE, but for all that power, there is a price and unfortunately we're doomed to have a harder time at PvP. Make sure your expertise is at max or the bolstered max- you think it hurts now, I once thought it was a bright idea to go in with 208+ PvE gear... it hurt so much.

[Greezt]

Wow. Annihilation isn't a horrible spec for PvP, it's actually good. I'd even say great. It has really good burst (if you can call it that). It has good survivability too (like all maras, but also via tree passives).

 

It takes some getting used to, but it's definitely not bad at all. Play it as a single target delayed burst spec - lay out everything on your target, pop berserk and watch them melt.

 

As for squishiness: maras (like snipers) have no self-heals. This makes them less self-sustainable, but they're not squishy by any means. Especially annihilation has some serious DR, and combined with the plethora of other DCDs maras have I'd safely say that they're among the tankiest of specs. You just get a lot of them, so it takes time to learn which one to use when. These DCDs are also pretty much the best out there.

 

Edit - actual advice: use your DCDs proactively, and don't use them all at once. For example, obfuscate is great against another mara and especially a sniper (who is lining up ambush). Saber ward against pretty much anything that combines force/tech and melee/ranged (Mercs, PTs, sins...) as well as against snipers if out of melee range. Can be combined with predation for even more defense chance. It can also be used if you're approaching 30% and don't want to be hit with an assassinate/takedown.

 

Mad dash can be used as a DCD for a single telegraphed hit (heatseeker missile, ambush). Force camo is probably the best one of the lot due to its incredibly short CD, and should be used whenever you need a quick getaway (if possible, combined with predation to reach a medpack quick). Undying rage is good for mitigating heavy hits that you couldn't otherwise (for example, a PT's EB or a sin's discharge both have no CD, so mad dash won't do anything against them. They'll just use them again the next GCD) and also for keeping you up enough for a healer to stabilize you.

 

Finally, intimidating roar is great for getting out of a cluster of enemies on you.

 

The biggest mistake I see maras make is think they're a one man army and charge in.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Greezt

[Ryuku-sama]

So.. Annihilation is either a great spec or a ****** spec or a average spec for PvP. Use your DCD not at the same time. Press buttons. Pray.. Is that really all you guys have to say about Annihilation?

 

I asked for advises. WayOfTheWarriorx gaves detailled general advises which is great but won't help a lot considering they are valid for any class and I'm already applying them. I asked specifications about specific points of his answer which are more specific to Marauder and Annihilation :

• How to get my damage rolling faster
  
• How to get my burst phases kill better
  
• How to handle 2vs1
  
• How to handle specific classes match up (all of them)
  
• What he meant by being unpredictable
  

 

Then looking at the next three following answers... I get Tsetso who doesn't help but say he couldn't make Annihilation works. Doesn't help in anyway. Next is AllisonLightning's answer. An interesting answer venturing into comparison with PvE and giving a few specific advises. Mainly not expect to be any useful without a pocket healer and to avoid anything but being on the offensive dealing damage (which will only work with a healer) and portable Predation/Bloodthirst. An useful answer that gives another perspective on general Annihilation play but nothing very specific. Last is Greezt's answer who only repeats what WayOfTheWarriorx said with some more specifics. He tells which DCD's are good against which classes which is useful put won't fix my main problem.

 

I feel like a fricking glass cannon without the cannon. And I wanna fix it.

 

EDIT: I know the spec tooltip. I can make a working rotation. I can try to get some burst out. I still get out DPS'ed and out killed by close to everything out there. My only chance is if I gang up on someone focused.. And then my DoT's are nearly useless.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Ryuku-sama

[Tsetso]

Lol, sorry that i couldn't help. I'd welcome some useful advice too, but to me it seems anni is as useful as pyro in pvp. Fun, but not really playable without pocket healer.

[Greezt]

You won't get fast burst phases with annihilation. That's the way the spec is. Your burst consists of all DoTs on a target and then using your heavy hitters in conjunction with berserk. That takes set up time. If you want fast burst go fury.

 

I'm not sure why you feel so glass like. Maras are second to basically non in DR and defensives. You have something around 40% DR for 30 seconds out of 60 minimum (a bit more, I think) before anything. Just by using cloak of pain. So factually, if you feel squishy you're doing something wrong.

 

What's this about 2v1? If they're the same skill level as you, you should lose.

 

Specific matchups I can't help you with. I think Chosenmon wrote a guide of sorts a while back, search for it on this forum.

 

Being unpredictable is always nice, but it's hard in practice. Example: if you just pop your DoTs on a sin and then berserk every time, they'll learn and pop shroud the moment all your DoTs are on them. You might want to mix it up - you could DoT and camo, or DoT and CC → berserk. Whatever. Being unpredictable is always better because that means your opponent can't go through the motions without thinking. I'm not sure what this has to do with anything here though.

[Ryuku-sama]

You won't get fast burst phases with annihilation. That's the way the spec is. Your burst consists of all DoTs on a target and then using your heavy hitters in conjunction with berserk. That takes set up time. If you want fast burst go fury.

 

I understand that. But there are faster and more efficient way to get everything rolling.

 

I'm not sure why you feel so glass like. Maras are second to basically non in DR and defensives. You have something around 40% DR for 30 seconds out of 60 minimum (a bit more, I think) before anything. Just by using cloak of pain. So factually, if you feel squishy you're doing something wrong.

 

I know I'm doing something wrong. But what is it? I pop CoP all the time. I still get killed before I can get my damage rolling in a 1vs1 unless I'm not being attacked.

 

What's this about 2v1? If they're the same skill level as you, you should lose.

 

There is difference between losing and being blown to bits so fast I can't even start to wonder what happened.

 

Specific matchups I can't help you with. I think Chosenmon wrote a guide of sorts a while back, search for it on this forum.

 

Can't find a user named Chosenmon nor any PvP guide not pre dating 3.0.

 

Being unpredictable is always nice, but it's hard in practice. Example: if you just pop your DoTs on a sin and then berserk every time, they'll learn and pop shroud the moment all your DoTs are on them. You might want to mix it up - you could DoT and camo, or DoT and CC → berserk. Whatever. Being unpredictable is always better because that means your opponent can't go through the motions without thinking. I'm not sure what this has to do with anything here though.

 

Ok. I see his point better now.

[Drake_Averrod]

I am not the greatest player in pvp but I am also not the worst. I recently started to play watchman in pvp (at the beginning on 4.0 I played concentration then swaped to combat because I simply enjoyed the specc more and as they say burst is king in pvp so I didn't even consider watchmen. That all being said I have great fun with watchman and I feel like I am actually doing better as far as survivability goes.

 

That being said I also play Watchman in pvp slightly different than combat. As I said before I am not a pvp ace so this may be wrong, but my general tactic as a sentinel was to "cull the weak" meaning to identify the weakest target and destroy it as fast as possible. On top of that of course harass or kill healers.

 

Against mostly sage healers (with atleast in regular warzone are doing well, as even I can play them well) the burst down before healed approach did work only occasionaly. Depending on things like guard, taunt, heals, debuffs and enemy group composition, this either worked decent - well or not at all.

 

With the Watchman however I assumed a different apporoach. While I still try to identify the weak targets, I no longer try to kill them asap. I once read that Vigilence is considered an "AOE preassure specc". I would consider based on my experience the watchman to be an single target preassure specc with target switching. I harass and possibly kill the weak. if they have healers I go harass them.

 

Basically what I try and it worked decently well so far is forcing the healer to triage and not just heal everyone (don't get me wrong, if I swap I will only swap between weakest target and healer), forcing the healer to decide weither to heal himself or that weak link or someone else as in most cases in regulars people are not focusing that well. So I try to effectively force the healer to let one of them die, which in turn gives my side an advantage as I can start the same on someone else.

 

I may just mention something that I should be doing anyway on any specc. But to my knowledge the general advice is to focus burst one target and then go to the next. So as Watchman I see myself suporting this strategy by preasuring the healers to make that burst down easier and quicker.

 

As far as squishiness goes: In combat my aim was never to survive long. It was to take atleast more than 1 person down with me. As Watchman with the selfheals though I feel considerably more survivable. This also plays into 1:2 situations. I generally try to avoid them if possible, as my goal is to support a group (and I like to believe that the Zen heals give a very slight edge too) . However, I also attacked the other door alone in Voidstar multiple times, when two people were guarding. Which I mostly did to assess the strength and skill of the defenders. with dcds and selfheals this most of the time allowed me to live long enough to draw away atleast one from the other side, sometimes giving my side an advantage.

 

I generally think it is hard to give advice for pvp. It is always different. Sometimes your side steamrolls the other sometimes they steamroll yours. Sometimes your team is terribly bad and you get focused like hell because they identify you as the biggest threat.

 

 

Edit: also since you asked about burst: While I feel we have little. preassuring someone with dots and then hit them with merciless/crited dispatch seems so far enough to me with the playstyle I mentioned above. They got the dots tiking and then wham 14k or whatever from merciless. I got the impression that the 14k or whatever damage from merciless is enough of "hard hit" while they had dots ticking on them as dots are predictable damage while you have them on you and you can calculate your survival. The Merciless on top however might not be for all players. Which helps putting healers under preassure as they might not expect it at that point. But of course everything depends on the skill level you go up against.

 

TLDR: In Watchman I see my role to either harass the healer so he can't heal the raget being focused on or force him to heal someone else (also with dot spread). As far as gearing goes as the dots are short I find hit crit more beneficial than alacrity (although some is nice)

Edited October 18, 2016 by Drake_Averrod

[Greezt]

His name was chosonmon.

[Greezt]

I understand that. But there are faster and more efficient way to get everything rolling.

 

There isn't, though. Annihilation plays very similar to hatred in that respect. You need to lay everything down before you can burst. Basically, (deadly saber) annihilate → force rend → rupture is your setup, and there's no way around it. There might be a slightly better way to do it, I don't know. I don't main a mara. But even if there is, it'll take the same amount of GCDs.

 

I know I'm doing something wrong. But what is it? I pop CoP all the time. I still get killed before I can get my damage rolling in a 1vs1 unless I'm not being attacked.

 

This just means that you aren't using your DCDs correctly. It would help of you said which classes are stomping you. Knowing them would help you avoid their heavy hitters.

 

I'm guessing it's AP PT, Arsenal merc, MM sniper or Fury/Rage mara/jugg. Basically, any burst class that knows their burst will stomp you if you don't avoid it. See the examples of how to use your DCDs correctly for more on that, but it might be that you simply don't know how to recognize their burst. Do you notice when a PT has for energy lodes? How do you react when a merc fires their HSM at you?

 

 

There is difference between losing and being blown to bits so fast I can't even start to wonder what happened.

 

As I said, if you're being blown up you're not using your DCDs correctly. Even two players can't global a single player with his DCDs up.

 

Finally, let me give you some advice regarding sins (my main class).

 

Deception: They will probably open up on you. If they don't, they're not that dangerous - you have better sustained, better burst (after it is set up) and better survivability. If they open on you, expect something along the lines of: spike → maul → low slash → crushing darkness + discharge → electrocute → discharge → etc. This might vary a bit, but the CC placeholders are pretty much where they will be (for resolve reasons). This is tough on any class, since they can take a large chunk out of your healthbar while you're stunned.

 

I'd recommend (if possible) not to break until electrocute, since that's the point at which you'll be whitebarred. This might be dangerous though, because depending on crits you might be very low at that point. So another option is to wait until they start casting crushing darkness and then break and camo/roar. Watch out for shroud - sometimes it's used offensively in order to avoid CC, you don't want to waste your roar on that. Other than this, if you can get a medpack do it. In an open fight, you have the advantage on them.

 

Hatred: I don't see them that often these days, but it might be me. I doubt that this class is bursting you down - they have some powerful pressure, but a long setup time means that you should be able to avoid most of it with DCDs. They usually won't open on you from stealth, and even if they do they can't keep you CCd like deception can. They are much squishier than deception, so you'll find them easier to kill.

 

The key to killing hatred is sticking to them. They will try and kite you, but you have the tools to prevent that (predation, camo, blade blitz, leap). You are also less susceptible to kiting than the other mara classes due to you being a DoT spec. Camo out to mitigate their demolish when possible.

 

Edit: perhaps a recording of you playing would help in determining your problems.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Greezt

[SVTCarnage]

There has been so many things said in this thread that I couldn't add anything if I wanted. That's all I haft to say, yeap, carry on. Glad I could help.

 

Edit: Ok so Greezt hit it. You haft to know the roster. That is PvP, that is FG's (fighting games), knowing all the classes & specs is a big thing in PvP, and most absolutely in 1v1 situations (especially duels). I highly recommend dueling your guildies, and other players when you can. If you run across a experienced player that can duel you, and then tell you what your doing wrong, that is what you want.

Edited October 20, 2016 by SVTCarnage

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

There has been so many things said in this thread that I couldn't add anything if I wanted. That's all I haft to say, yeap, carry on. Glad I could help.

 

Edit: Ok so Greezt hit it. You haft to know the roster. That is PvP, that is FG's (fighting games), knowing all the classes & specs is a big thing in PvP, and most absolutely in 1v1 situations (especially duels). I highly recommend dueling your guildies, and other players when you can. If you run across a experienced player that can duel you, and then tell you what your doing wrong, that is what you want.

 

This is very good advice. I'm one of those rare birds who doesn't have alts and hasn't played most of the classes. I do well in Operations and I tend to do well in PVP a good amount of the time [some of the time i get my *** handed to me repeatedly , especially when there is no healer around] too but when it comes to duels I very rarely win if I'm not fighting another mara or sentinel.

 

When you don't know what your opponent is capable of, it's hard to watch for things that would give you the insight on when is the best time to use a certain attack, or your burst. Knowing what your opponent has in his arsenal [so to speak] is the best weapon you could have in your arsenal.

 

Extremely good advice.

[SVTCarnage]

Edit: Edited October 20, 2016 by SVTCarnage

[KevinQCowart]

Annhilation is inarguably the most high-skill class in the game. Given a proper team composition it is one of tbe best DPS specs in the game right now, in fact double Annhilation is a very powerful composition in group ranked.

 

I wish I had time to write out some advice but if I wanted to be concise it would entail the length of one of those dulfy guides.

 

Suffice it to say this, marauder is a pure melee dps class, in regular warzones you will find it hard to play without a competent healer around, that is the design of this game. There is also an abundence of ranged dps these days so two arsenal mercs could enet you and blow you up in seconds. You have to be hyper aware of your surroundings. In a way 8v8 can be worse for a marauder than arenas because there are more potential sources of incoming dps, and unless you are in a premade you may not get any support. Pick your fights wisely.

Edited October 20, 2016 by KevinQCowart

[SVTCarnage]

edit: Edited November 5, 2016 by SVTCarnage

[TBDNicodemus]

I understand that. But there are faster and more efficient way to get everything rolling.

 

I know I'm doing something wrong. But what is it? I pop CoP all the time. I still get killed before I can get my damage rolling in a 1vs1 unless I'm not being attacked.

 

There is difference between losing and being blown to bits so fast I can't even start to wonder what happened.

.

Can't find a user named Chosenmon nor any PvP guide not pre dating 3.0.

 

Ok. I see his point better now.

 

Not always... we aren't inventing the wheel here the rotation takes 7 GCD for damage to be what you want, sure you can go outside the rotation for a quick burst of pain less dots more strikes... but your robbing the class of what its all about, to which at that point annihilation isn't > carn/fury. Which is in fact the case for pvp carn dps is burst/set up friendly so is fury but carn get more dps and fury gets a cc immunity. You can't make annihilation what it isn't with out making it worse then the other 2 options.

 

people are saying it your just not listening to it, you have don't have CoP up and then you run away... if you don't have a healer or a tank or the enemy focus on something else you run away. your kit is all about running away (or getting a group run with you)... I even get the seismic grenades so I can toss and run away. Another trick I've seen is run with another marauder... who ever is getting focused goes through their dcd leaving the other marauder to clean up when the first stealths out if you are both doing damage they have a hard time focusing... just make sure you both are.

 

not for the marauder, sure we have the CoP but we are CC magnets, its the reason my sentinel isn't my main, because I feel I catch every hard stun available. we have no heal to full moves, we get blown up that's our quality of life.

 

If my jug gets 40% I can heal back up, if my PT gets 40% I can heal back up, if my sorc gets 10% I can heal back, if my sniper, merc, marauder get 40% they lick their lips and watch for the execute moves to activate. Not sure if you noticed this but out of those three marauder is melee and now you know why you feel like glass. the other 2 classes can still try and kite pulling you further into enemy lines. Oh I would mention an operative but a good one never gets below 80% in a duel