Player Choice (in reply to Musco)

[Eanelinea]

So, just played Anarchy in Paradise and Disavowed. Perfect examples of what we're talking about. Theron hears about Kaliyo, sends you to investigate, and then Kaliyo hijacks you to help with her mission. Your only real choice in the matter is whether you blow up faceless innocents and, maybe, if Koth leaves.

 

Same thing in Disavowed. Theron sends you like a messenger to recruit Jorgan, and it's Jorgan that tell you about his op that you can help with. Again, the main character isn't the one driving the plot. It's Jorgan's story, not yours. You're a secondary character in your own game. Oh yeah. and Koth is still a jerk, needlessly antagonizing Senya.

 

Worse yet, you get almost zero good lines, which is bad for any class but flat out criminal (see what I did there?) for the smuggler.

 

This. I don't mind if Bioware has to shove me forward through their story. I'm fine with this. But the thing is, I'm supposedly the Commander of the Alliance. I know my inner circle, Lana, Theron, sometimes Koth and Senya (before the ending) gives me advice and helps (like Quinn helped me on Taris if I listened to him or Scourge helped me somewhat with advice during chapter 3 of the JK story).

 

But Theron tells me 'hey there's a terrorist on Zakuul, you go get her.' Or Lana tells me 'we need you to talk to Valkorian, go do that.' I don't have an option to tell them no, or not now, or tell them what's the point.

 

If I'm the one who is supposed to be in charge of the Alliance, which Lana said everyone agreed and that's just how it is, why am I being told to run off and get people or do things and I'm just running along without wanting to say no? Even if me saying no doesn't change anything, at least it gives me a sense of being the leader.

 

I feel more like a figure head of the Alliance, with Lana and Theron using my past deeds just to get more people into the Alliance, without asking me if I even want to run back and forth to Zakuul.

 

Even an illusion of having actual control would be nice, even if whether I agree or don't, I have to wind up doing it for the story.

[ZanyaCross]

I can partially agree with this. Koth is exactly like being paired with an a-hole player:

1) Convinced he's awesome when he isn't

2) Hates on you if you don't do things his way

3) Believes he has first claim on any loot discovered

4) Thinks his terrible attempts at wit are awesome

5) Will rage quit

6) Will use exploits to take your loot

 

Bioware is to be commended: they were so intent on recreating for the solo player the group player experience, they even forced a dick player on your team.

 

I wish I could frame this post and hang it up in my stronghold.

 

This. I don't mind if Bioware has to shove me forward through their story. I'm fine with this. But the thing is, I'm supposedly the Commander of the Alliance. I know my inner circle, Lana, Theron, sometimes Koth and Senya (before the ending) gives me advice and helps (like Quinn helped me on Taris if I listened to him or Scourge helped me somewhat with advice during chapter 3 of the JK story).

 

The Taris example is perfect, because it not only gave you a choice but it had real consequences. You could act like you know everything with hilarious results, or pool your peoples' expertise and fight a much easier battle. What a massive improvement it would have been in Disavowed or Anarchy if smart decisions saved us a few of those Skytrooper ambushes.

[Rolodome]

So, just played Anarchy in Paradise and Disavowed. Perfect examples of what we're talking about. Theron hears about Kaliyo, sends you to investigate, and then Kaliyo hijacks you to help with her mission. Your only real choice in the matter is whether you blow up faceless innocents and, maybe, if Koth leaves.

 

Same thing in Disavowed. Theron sends you like a messenger to recruit Jorgan, and it's Jorgan that tell you about his op that you can help with. Again, the main character isn't the one driving the plot. It's Jorgan's story, not yours. You're a secondary character in your own game. Oh yeah. and Koth is still a jerk, needlessly antagonizing Senya.

 

Worse yet, you get almost zero good lines, which is bad for any class but flat out criminal (see what I did there?) for the smuggler.

Interestingly, this isn't actually all that different from how the vanilla story works. Or hell, even SoR. Somebody gets you to do something, you have to go do it. The differences that come to mind are:

 

- You were never a "commander" of anything before. The person giving you orders was always and distinctly either one or more ranks above, or a peer who knew significantly more about the situation than you, making their directive the obvious choice.

- In some stories, such as

sith warrior, you actually got to kill the one ordering you around as the culmination of everything

 

- Despite being ordered around, you still often had the freedom to act as you saw fit. There were even moments like the

sith inquisitor on Alderaan where you can reject helping that one chick

that were clearly dumb/selfish things for your character to do, but you were still allowed to do them and the game didn't come crashing down because you did.

 

Most of the time in KOTFE, the closest you come to being able to act as you see fit is in a few dark/light variations that more or less have no outcome on what happens next... at least, none that we've seen so far (with the exception of the one that really punishes you for daring to be your own person... starts with K and ends with betrayal).

 

To be fair, there are those rare moments, like

choosing to kill Kaliyo or Jorgan

that make you feel like maybe you have some power after all, but it's one moment in sixteen chapters of largely getting pissed on and you pretty much have to know how to get to that choice and seek it out to ensure that it's an option in the first place.

 

A neat choice for sure, but suffers a bit from being too obscure.

 

Also, I will say that:

choosing whether to accept or reject Valkorion's power did feel meaningful to me each time. But, that is partially dependent on it paying off in the future. If it never pays off, my opinion of it will sink. That said, it's such a missed opportunity that they didn't tie HK's sacrifice into the Valkorion power choice in chapter 9. He was going to die anyway, so it would have been the perfect opportunity to say "here's some consequences for you." If you accept Valkorion's power, you beat the everloving crap out of Arcann and HK lives. If you don't, he sacrifices himself to save you by heroically taking a lightsaber to the face and distracting Arcann long enough for you to escape.

 

But I guess they already wanted him to be a sub reward or something.

 

I mean, that kind of choice would have been really interesting to me because it's one of those classic KOTOR scenarios of "the dark side gets you some kind of material gain, while being light side is harder and requires sacrifice but keeps you free from the corruption of evil."

 

[Deewe]

 

***snip***

 

despite being a Commander I don't think there's any point you actually get to lead.

 

Chapter 10 - Follow Kaliyo.

Chapter 11 - Follow Jorgan

Chapter 12 - Thrown into a forest by Valkorion

Chapter 13 - Follow Gault

Chapter 14 - Follow Shae Visla

Chapter 15 - Follow Scorpio

Chapter 16 - Follow Lana

Guess it pretty well summarize the experience in KOTFE. Well at least mine.

 

At a point I was wondering why I was in command because everyone was forcing me to do their bidding.

 

The issue lies in the fact they try too much to make the player feel heroic. It's been the root cause since the launch of the game. In the end everyone feels just a peon, either a clone of someone's else or being taken by the hand and spoon fed ad nausea.

 

Personally I felt much more heroic in SWG, being just a doc among other's players either crafting nice Stims or going in the field to support people.

 

I'd strongly suggest to mitigate the HERO centered writing as it gets old very fast and apart maybe the 10 years old it doesn't appeal that much people. Marketing got it all wrong here.

 

Give me a jet pack that can allow me to climb up skyscrapers of jump down from cliffs. Let me force throw mobs in the air or force jump to a high ledge. Then I'd feel heroic with a grin on my face. Versus I have a speeder that's a little faster than a bicycle, an hovercraft that hurts me when it fells from 3 feet and gets stuck by stones 6 inches high... and my jet pack is just a wheel chair on steroids.

 

Koth is exactly like being paired with an a-hole player:

1) Convinced he's awesome when he isn't

2) Hates on you if you don't do things his way

3) Believes he has first claim on any loot discovered

4) Thinks his terrible attempts at wit are awesome

5) Will rage quit

6) Will use exploits to take your loot

 

Bioware is to be commended: they were so intent on recreating for the solo player the group player experience, they even forced a dick player on your team.

Then they are obliging us to keep character we don't like (Koth) but they are preventing us to keep those we want (Darth Marr, Scorpio, Lana, Senya). Might be the only one but I actually like Senya and was very unhappy not to get Scorpio on my BH as I wanted her for a long time with him.

 

Also there's the issue with with companions customization. So much for feeling a Hero when your companion is just a clone of everybody's else character : body, clothes and even name included. Quite a major drawback and immersion breaking.

 

 

They have to shut down the marketing department, let writers write interesting story and allow some budget for companion customization as character plus giving the ability to display and edit companion nicknames.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Deewe

[Rolodome]

and my jet pack is just a wheel chair on steroids.

LOL.

 

After reading your post, I want to go play Force Unleashed now. That game knew what was up in terms of making the player feel powerful. So did Saints Row 4, come to think of it. And Assassin's Creed. In this game, I feel powerful in cutscenes sometimes, but rarely out of them. Its movement engines has gotta be one of the worst, sadly.

[Deewe]

I feel powerful in cutscenes sometimes, but rarely out of them.

Guess it's the same for all of us. What annoys me is those cutscene make us see what the game could be although we end bashing critters multiple time with a glowing stick as with a fly swatter on reluctant cockroaches.

 

Yet there's one thing that still makes me grin in SWTOR: a well timed Force push and the Commando concussion charge on enemies, making them fall from so high!

Edited September 27, 2016 by Deewe

[Rolodome]

Guess it's the same for all of us. What annoys me is those cutscene make us see what the game could be although we end bashing critters multiple time with a glowing stick as with a fly swatter on reluctant cockroaches.

 

Yet there's one thing that still makes me grin in SWTOR: a well timed Force push and the Commando concussion charge on enemies, making them fall from so high!

Lol yes, knocking enemies off ledges is one of the best things in the game.

[Nempo]

Guess it's the same for all of us. What annoys me is those cutscene make us see what the game could be although we end bashing critters multiple time with a glowing stick as with a fly swatter on reluctant cockroaches.

 

Yet there's one thing that still makes me grin in SWTOR: a well timed Force push and the Commando concussion charge on enemies, making them fall from so high!

 

Voidstar, so much fun jumping across before the bridges get up and then force pushing the sap that stood there into the void below.