Why the Subscriber Reward Program is vital towards SWTOR's longevity.

[Aowin]

The most important source of revenue for any MMORPG is the subscriber base. Not only are they the most loyal members of the community, but it's a source of income developers can largely depend on for years. The same cannot be said for cash shops and expansions, which bring in short term profits and are nowhere as reliable or consistent.

 

While some may disagree with how the subscriber reward program has been executed, or perhaps some just don't like the rewards, it's imperative BioWare continue to use this system. It's better than the traditional veteran reward program in most MMORPGs as it's not gated behind how many months or years a player has been subscribed. This gives everybody at that point in time equal and fair access to the same content.

 

As many of you are hoping, I too would like to see the subscriber rewards improve from what we received in KOTFE. Aside from Niko, HK-55, and the bonus chapter, most of the rewards were frivolous and weren't that appealing. I'd like to see BioWare continue to improve on the rewards given to subscribers so it encourages us to really retain our subscriptions.

 

Regardless of how many may feel about KOTFE, the subscriber reward program was by far one of the best design choices BioWare has ever made for this game. Ben Irving has already confirmed it will return with KOTET and I hope that BioWare vastly improves on what is offered to subscribers on a monthly basis.

 

Edit: My recommendation to BioWare.

 

-Continue the Subscriber Reward Program as is: Catering to active, current subscribers.

-Add more frequent "veteran rewards" to the CE vendor, Pre-Order vendor, and a brand new "Founder" vendor for those with the title.

 

This is a compromise that continues to give the best rewards to those subscribed now, but also some cool items for the long term vets.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Aowin

[CaptRogue]

The most important source of revenue for any MMORPG is the subscriber base. Not only are they the most loyal members of the community, but it's a source of income developers can largely depend on for years. The same cannot be said for cash shops and expansions, which bring in short term profits and are nowhere as reliable or consistent.

 

Where are your facts first & foremost? You speak as if you have data to back up what you're saying when in reality you're just speaking from opinion. The CM of this game is honestly one of the largest sources of income as people drops hundreds of dollars on it per month; $14.99 a month isn't anything compared to that.

 

Secondly, if that was true & subscribers were the most loyal members of the community, then BW really has screwed up as they've lost hundreds, if not thousands of subs this past year. Even if they've gained just as many new ones, they still lost that much. (IMO based on the population & player base, they have not gained them back, but that's an argument for another time.) That hurts their bottom dollar & metrics, even if they try to sell it that it doesn't.

 

Ben Irving has already confirmed it will return with KOTET...

Then why did you make this post?? Did you have a point; Or just was rambling? Because honestly, all I got from it was that "I like when BW gives us Subs rewards & they said they're going to continue doing it.".

[Aowin]

...

 

This is simple Economics 101. The cash shop, as I've already stated, is great for short term revenue. However, it quickly declines after a new pack is released. Such an income is unstable and not as reliable as a subscription base, which doesn't rapidly change. Why do you think BioWare instituted a Subscriber Reward Program to start? Subscribers are where the money is at because they have more retention and are better for longevity, which is where the most money is made.

 

For someone who is claiming I don't have "facts," where are your facts BioWare has "lost hundreds, if not thousands of subs this past year." You have no facts because you are making it up as you can't prove it. Do not let your personal disposition of the game cloud how well the game is actually performing.

 

My point is BioWare needs to continue this program, regardless of how some may perceive it. If you did not like my thread, you did not have to post in it.

[CorporateRed]

... The cash shop, as I've already stated, is great for short term revenue. However, it quickly declines after a new pack is released. ...

 

You stated it, but you don't know it. You very well may be right(I don't think so, though ), but you're just guessing. Judging by the focus Bioware puts on the cartel market, I would guess that it is much more important to their finances than you believe.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

I seem to remember them saying the subscribers were the biggest consumers of the cash shop. I think it goes hand and hand. Those that can afford spending on the cm can afford to sub. Those that sub get free cc from the grant and referrals. Anyways, subbing while you play is chump change next to playing as preferred and purchasing from the cm. You can do both as a sub.

 

Also, I'm not so convinced the sub rewards convince many tl sub or stay subbed if they were already planning on moving kn or playing as preferred.

[peter_plankskull]

While some may disagree with how the subscriber reward program has been executed, or perhaps some just don't like the rewards, it's imperative BioWare continue to use this system. It's better than the traditional veteran reward program in most MMORPGs as it's not gated behind how many months or years a player has been subscribed. This gives everybody at that point in time equal and fair access to the same content.

 

IMO, I believe that sub rewards over a certain period of unspecified months not interconnected through a continuous subscription are the best way to go, the complete opposite viewpoint. That way, everyone will be able to get the reward over time, it won't ever be gated, not obtainable or exclusive, and will prove loyalty more so than a month of sub. How is everyone not getting fair and equal access to the same content anyway? It's still obtainable and up for grabs at all times rather than a certain period of time, guaranteeing no one will ever be able to experience that reward after a certain date which means wasted resources compared to everyone potentially experiencing it.

 

Theirs a reason why other loyalty systems go to the "traditional" route, because SWTOR sub reward model sucks. What happens if your sub lapsed for 25 hours during the 6 months to get the HK-55 chapter? Yeah... so what if it's been 5 months and 28 days, you don't get it, some system their...

 

Regardless of how many may feel about KOTFE, the subscriber reward program was by far one of the best design choices BioWare has ever made for this game. Ben Irving has already confirmed it will return with KOTET and I hope that BioWare vastly improves on what is offered to subscribers on a monthly basis.

 

The idea on paper sounds good, but the implementation was just trash which resulted in people getting useless items that they couldn't use or never wanted. The entire system needs a revamp imo that allows us to pick and choose what we want, sort of like cartel coins for each allotment, that way we could save up for something juicer or avoiding something we will never use, either through being unable altogether having a personal choice to do so.

Edited September 4, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[Chiltonium]

I'm not subbing for trinkets every month. I sub for fun and challenging gameplay. Which they havn't had in two years.

[peter_plankskull]

I'm not subbing for trinkets every month. I sub for fun and challenging gameplay. Which they havn't had in two years.

 

But... but... they.. dey said they could possibly have a op a few months ago... the expac... it's... it's only like two months away from release and we know nothing about it... surely you're just a entitled whinier!11!

 

Honestly I would prefer both, a good solid sub system along with content supplied for everyone, even you GSF, regardless of the garbage model you're built upon.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

A subscriber reward system is vital, I agree. Although most rewards are small, it is a easy way to say hey....thanks for your support. It should definitely be based over time, otherwise there is no loyalty to reward. I even think they should offer a elder program, after each year of continuous subscription providing really collectable items. This would give the playerbase something to strive for.

 

I also think that each reward should be exclusive, and not repeated. That would offer a way for loyal subs to have something collectable that they could pull out and show everyone. Although BW can offer monthly "gifts" as they have recently, they should be minor (ie: the HK helmet, or a pet or something).

 

The whole point of a sub reward, is to reward loyalty, not subbing a month here or there so they can just grab all the recent content for a single month of sub. And tbat is what some people try and complain about, that they cant have their cake, and eat it to. They want the ability to sub a couple times a year, grab all the recent content, and the sub gifts, then go back to preferred.

 

Sorry, but that is not customer loyalty.

[peter_plankskull]

The whole point of a sub reward, is to reward loyalty, not subbing a month here or there so they can just grab all the recent content for a single month of sub. And tbat is what some people try and complain about, that they cant have their cake, and eat it to. They want the ability to sub a couple times a year, grab all the recent content, and the sub gifts, then go back to preferred.

 

Sorry, but that is not customer loyalty.

 

Wow... we... agree... on something... perhaps a round of drinks and then back off to the HK thread for round.... 7?

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Wow... we... agree... on something... perhaps a round of drinks and then back off to the HK thread for round.... 7?

 

Sounds good to me. Nothing wrong with disagreement, or arguing our sides, but at least we usually do it respectfully:D

[CaptRogue]

This is simple Economics 101. The cash shop, as I've already stated, is great for short term revenue. However, it quickly declines after a new pack is released. Such an income is unstable and not as reliable as a subscription base, which doesn't rapidly change. Why do you think BioWare instituted a Subscriber Reward Program to start? Subscribers are where the money is at because they have more retention and are better for longevity, which is where the most money is made.

 

Again, where is your proof? How do you know that it quickly declines after a new pack? Are you a BW employee? Once more it's just an assumption on your part.

 

Just going on your logic it's flawed.

Person A: $14.99/mos sub. Equals out $14.99 a month for however long the sub for.

Person B: $200/mos every time a new pack comes out.

 

Person B is the one generating more revenue & worth more to BW than Person A. It's all about the dollar signs. Both are forms of income, but BW will choose option B over A anytime, as will most business.

 

For someone who is claiming I don't have "facts," where are your facts BioWare has "lost hundreds, if not thousands of subs this past year." You have no facts because you are making it up as you can't prove it. Do not let your personal disposition of the game cloud how well the game is actually performing.

 

Actually yes I can prove that, but it would require one of those "pic posting" accounts, that I don't have nor want to bother with right now. (Besides if you're not going to post proof but opinion as fact, with no backing, I can do the same.)

Aside from the fact, whether you think the game is doing great or not, you can see for yourself, unless you've just recently joined the game, that they have LOST hundreds of subs. Any of the Veteran players here (that are left, as we have lost a ton of them recently too.) can tell you that. Playing on the most popular server, and 2nd most popular server & coming from the most popular PvP server, the game has lost hundreds if not thousands of subs & players in the past year.

As for my personal disposition of the game, that has nothing to do with this discussion, so lets keep it on topic.

 

If you did not like my thread, you did not have to post in it.

Careful, self moderating is against the forum rules. Don't post something if you don't want people disagreeing with you.

[AlienEyeTX]

The most important source of revenue for any MMORPG is the subscriber base. Not only are they the most loyal members of the community, but it's a source of income developers can largely depend on for years. The same cannot be said for cash shops and expansions, which bring in short term profits and are nowhere as reliable or consistent.

 

While some may disagree with how the subscriber reward program has been executed, or perhaps some just don't like the rewards, it's imperative BioWare continue to use this system. It's better than the traditional veteran reward program in most MMORPGs as it's not gated behind how many months or years a player has been subscribed. This gives everybody at that point in time equal and fair access to the same content.

 

As many of you are hoping, I too would like to see the subscriber rewards improve from what we received in KOTFE. Aside from Niko, HK-55, and the bonus chapter, most of the rewards were frivolous and weren't that appealing. I'd like to see BioWare continue to improve on the rewards given to subscribers so it encourages us to really retain our subscriptions.

 

Regardless of how many may feel about KOTFE, the subscriber reward program was by far one of the best design choices BioWare has ever made for this game. Ben Irving has already confirmed it will return with KOTET and I hope that BioWare vastly improves on what is offered to subscribers on a monthly basis.

 

*yawn* What? I'm sure BW knows what they are doing. If sub rewards are what make or break this game, then they have far bigger problems.

[Aowin]

...

 

Except veteran reward systems aren't fair or easy access. I would know as I've played MMOs that have used the system. The best example I have is SWG. There were rewards for players who were eight year veterans. You may think that's fair, but MMOs don't last forever. Most shut down after a certain period of time.

 

So no, I don't think it's fair for someone to have to sub for five years straight to get a reward when it's unlikely the game will even still be running if they are a newcomer. SWG, if you didn't know, shut down into its eighth year. I was a five year veteran and never had a chance to get those better rewards because I didn't play at launch. This is coming from someone who was playing SWTOR at launch and would benefit from a veteran reward system.

 

The entire system doesn't need to be revamped. BioWare just needs to give better rewards. Half of the subscriber rewards had little value, thus many criticize the system. However, there is merit to it and BioWare can improve upon it as long as it makes the rewards better. As I already stated, a veteran reward system is NOT the way to go, especially if this MMO won't even be around for another five years. There are no guarantees with MMOs and how long they will last. MMOs like Ultima Online, Everquest and WoW are the exception, not the rule.

[peter_plankskull]

Except veteran reward systems aren't fair or easy access. I would know as I've played MMOs that have used the system. The best example I have is SWG. There were rewards for players who were eight year veterans. You may think that's fair, but MMOs don't last forever. Most shut down after a certain period of time.

 

So no, I don't think it's fair for someone to have to sub for five years straight to get a reward when it's unlikely the game will even still be running if they are a newcomer. SWG, if you didn't know, shut down into its eighth year. I was a five year veteran and never had a chance to get those better rewards because I didn't play at launch. This is coming from someone who was playing SWTOR at launch and would benefit from a veteran reward system.

 

The entire system doesn't need to be revamped. BioWare just needs to give better rewards. Half of the subscriber rewards had little value, thus many criticize the system. However, there is merit to it and BioWare can improve upon it as long as it makes the rewards better. As I already stated, a veteran reward system is NOT the way to go, especially if this MMO won't even be around for another five years. There are no guarantees with MMOs and how long they will last. MMOs like Ultima Online, Everquest and WoW are the exception, not the rule.

 

Ah... so now we get the real reason why you want the sub system to be as is....

 

So what they played and subbed 8 years... that's TRUE loyalty, sticking with the game till the end, not subbing for a month on and off nitpicking rewards or getting the entire expac. I would much rather prefer someone to get rewarded for eight years of loyalty, than someone who walks in the game, subs for a month, and gets the same reward as a five year vet. Besides, that gap window for someone getting a five year reward will probably be larger than only a month long reward, depending on the lifespan of the game.

 

Both reward systems have cons and pros but the "Traditional" sub reward route is far better as it actually proves loyalty and, for the most part, can potentially allow more subs to obtain the reward.

[Aowin]

...

 

My logic is flawed yet you are assuming most F2P/preferred are spending $200 per month on SWTOR? If you say so...

 

You seem to have missed the point. Sure, the minority of the community will spend an exuberant amount of money on the CM. That is not most players. I'd be surprised if the average person who buys CC spends more than $50 a month, if it's even that high.

 

Again, the issue here is that CM sees its highest profits with the release of a new pack. Once the pack has been out for a few weeks, profitability quickly dries up. So in the larger scheme of things, subscribers over the long term are very much more reliable and a better source of revenue (especially if they also spend in the CM).

 

You say you can "prove" your point yet you don't prove anything. You just continue stating "hundreds of thousands" have apparently left the game and you claim this by your own personal account playing on a few servers? That's hardly a compelling argument anyone will take seriously.

 

I'm all for folks disagreeing. I just don't understand why you are complaining about the thread and questioning my intent for making it when you decided to post in it to begin with. If you don't like what I have to say, simply don't respond...

 

Personal attacks are also against the forum rules bud, so two can play at that game.

[CorellianWannabe]

A subscriber reward system is vital, I agree. Although most rewards are small, it is a easy way to say hey....thanks for your support. It should definitely be based over time, otherwise there is no loyalty to reward. I even think they should offer a elder program, after each year of continuous subscription providing really collectable items. This would give the playerbase something to strive for.

 

I also think that each reward should be exclusive, and not repeated. That would offer a way for loyal subs to have something collectable that they could pull out and show everyone. Although BW can offer monthly "gifts" as they have recently, they should be minor (ie: the HK helmet, or a pet or something).

 

The whole point of a sub reward, is to reward loyalty, not subbing a month here or there so they can just grab all the recent content for a single month of sub. And tbat is what some people try and complain about, that they cant have their cake, and eat it to. They want the ability to sub a couple times a year, grab all the recent content, and the sub gifts, then go back to preferred.

 

Sorry, but that is not customer loyalty.

 

But subbing one month for Nico, a later month for HK, and a final month for chapter 16 is somehow showing more loyalty than buying coins would?

[peter_plankskull]

My logic is flawed yet you are assuming most F2P/preferred are spending $200 per month on SWTOR? If you say so...

 

Where did he assume that only preferred players buy from the CM?

 

Personal attacks are also against the forum rules bud, so two can play at that game.

 

From what I see, a lot of assumptions are going on from both of you, but rogue here happens to have some basis to grab with his assumptions, IE the death of a few servers, compared to your claims as how CM pack profability dries up after a few weeks which is backed by nothing.

 

Anyway... I looked at his posts and couldn't really find any personal attacks, some snark here and their yeah... but no full on insults... and even if he did use insults you shouldn't stoop down to his level.

[Aowin]

...

 

I've already explained to you my "real" reason. The current system is more fair and equal to everybody playing right now. Whereas the other system only benefits veterans who have played for years while it's unlikely anyone else will get those rewards. That is an incredibly flawed system and is not fair to anyone except the most senior veterans. That doesn't breed more subscriber loyalty. If anything, it would discourage it because this game won't be running in the next ten years more than likely.

 

As for my personal experience with SWG, I didn't even know what the game was when it launched. There was no way for me to even know it existed (and I was too young to play it anyway). The fact the game was shut down because of SWTOR made things even worse because folks, like myself, never had a chance at those veteran rewards even though we had been subbed for years. A five year veteran is not just some newcomer who comes in for a reward expecting the same stuff. As I said, I've been playing SWTOR longer than probably most of the folks on this forum so I'd benefit the most from a veteran system. I don't want it because I know how disproportionately lopsided it is for most players. It's great for the oldest veterans and not so much for everybody else.

 

As I said, no one can determine the lifespan of an MMO. Generally speaking, MMOs are shut down abruptly without notice. That happened with Tabula Rasa, Star Wars Galaxies, The Matrix Online, City of Heroes, Vanguard, and plenty of other MMOs that have come and gone. A veteran reward system would only make sense if we could depend on an MMO to be around for more than a decade. It will be an achievement if SWTOR makes it to its ten year anniversary. If it so happens that it does, it doesn't make any sense that ten year vets get better stuff than five year vets just because one group happened to be playing the game earlier for whatever reason.

 

Loyalty is not based on a measurement of time. Loyalty is based on your commitment to the game and how passionate you are about it. Saying someone who has been subbed longer is more passionate is a fallacy because they may have just known about TOR before the other person, or a multitude of other reasons. This is why the traditional veteran reward model doesn't work and it's also likely why BioWare opted to not go that direction. BioWare is interested in rewarding its current subscribers. It's not looking to divide those subscribers based on who just happened to be subscribed longer. The method BioWare uses doesn't even benefit those one-time subs who just want the full expansion for cheap, as they may only get one (if any) of the subscriber rewards and nothing else.

[CorellianWannabe]

They don't want to divide the subscriber base, so that's why they've created limited-time only rewards that are now inaccessible?

[Aowin]

...

 

He distinguished between a person who has a subscription versus a person who just spends money on the CM. While a person spending on the CM could be a subscriber, they are more likely to be F2P/preferred as they are a larger portion of the player base. That being said, it's a ridiculous example anyway as most players aren't spending $200 a month on CM unless they just have a lot of disposable income.

 

What servers are dead now? The PvP servers were dead years before KOTFE released. The only server I've seen that has had a reduction in its population is The Bastion. Otherwise, every other server (I've been on them all) seems to be doing fine. Server population always dips until a new expansion releases, so what we aren't seeing isn't anything unheard of or unusual. Again, there is no basis for this "hundreds if not thousands of subs" are leaving the game. It's mere hyperbole and nothing else.

 

I haven't "stooped" to any level. I'm merely pointing out that his attempts at rocking the boat merely because he does not like the thread is childish. He has made it abundantly clear he has little interest in the OP and just wants to disagree and perhaps even derail the thread, which is against the forum rules.

[Aowin]

They don't want to divide the subscriber base, so that's why they've created limited-time only rewards that are now inaccessible?

 

BioWare has not divided subscribers. The only people who don't have access to these "limited-time only rewards" are those who were not subscribed. I find that a better alternative rather than having 8-year vet rewards that most players are unlikely to ever achieve. In many cases, those types of rewards are far less accessible than the "limited-time only rewards."

[CorellianWannabe]

BioWare has not divided subscribers. The only people who don't have access to these "limited-time only rewards" are those who were not subscribed. I find that a better alternative rather than having 8-year vet rewards that most players are unlikely to ever achieve. In many cases, those types of rewards are far less accessible than the "limited-time only rewards."

 

The only players that wouldn't have access to five-year veteran rewards are those who were not subscribed the entire five years.

 

If the game starts to grow (EA's fevered hope) or remains static but with many new players due to turnover, then rewards like Nico and 55 are 'rewards' that most players would NEVER be able to achieve. Is a distant goal better than an impossible one?

Edited September 4, 2016 by CorellianWannabe

[Aowin]

The only players that wouldn't have access to five-year veteran rewards are those who were not subscribed the entire five years.

 

If the game starts to grow (EA's fevered hope) or remains static but with many new players due to turnover, then rewards like Nico and 55 are 'rewards' that most players would NEVER be able to achieve. Is a distant goal better than an impossible one?

 

Yes, because realistically speaking MMOs aren't likely to last ten years. EA stated it would support SWTOR for ten years, but that was before it went F2P. I'd much rather have a system that is fair to all subscribers at the time giving them rewards for being loyal customers then rather than rewarding those who just happened to be subbed at the beginning. The ones who played since launch, like myself, aren't any better than anyone else. We just happened to be playing longer for a variety of reasons. It makes little sense that only a few of us would get the best rewards that most players would never have a realistic shot at achieving.

[gabigool]

The most important source of revenue for any MMORPG is the subscriber base. Not only are they the most loyal members of the community, but it's a source of income developers can largely depend on for years. The same cannot be said for cash shops and expansions, which bring in short term profits and are nowhere as reliable or consistent.

 

While some may disagree with how the subscriber reward program has been executed, or perhaps some just don't like the rewards, it's imperative BioWare continue to use this system. It's better than the traditional veteran reward program in most MMORPGs as it's not gated behind how many months or years a player has been subscribed. This gives everybody at that point in time equal and fair access to the same content.

 

As many of you are hoping, I too would like to see the subscriber rewards improve from what we received in KOTFE. Aside from Niko, HK-55, and the bonus chapter, most of the rewards were frivolous and weren't that appealing. I'd like to see BioWare continue to improve on the rewards given to subscribers so it encourages us to really retain our subscriptions.

 

Regardless of how many may feel about KOTFE, the subscriber reward program was by far one of the best design choices BioWare has ever made for this game. Ben Irving has already confirmed it will return with KOTET and I hope that BioWare vastly improves on what is offered to subscribers on a monthly basis.

 

IMO quality, varied content at a reasonable cadence will sustain subscription numbers.

 

A subscriber reward program will not.