SerraShar Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I'm going to say Agent, Smuggler, Trooper & Bounty Hunter don't stand a chance in hell against their force user counterparts. The agent winning against Jadus was pure B's. Valkorian mentions Jadus was the perfect Sith. And if Jadus is so easily dispatched by a single, one vs. one, nonforce user, then really the entire Sith Order is pathetically weak. Chalk it up to story telling, because them overcoming very impossible odds is more interesting than dying horribly. well for starter , when I said they were equal . I mean class vs class . Force user vs force user . Sith warrior vs Jedi knight for exemple . Second , I disagree . I come from Kotor 2 , and if anything that game taugh me that the force and sith and jedi are all overrated and a force user can be killed by a no force user . Third . Jadus didn't do squat to earn the 'Most powerful' Sith . And I wouldn't trust a word Valk say , that psychopath would say ALOT and alot of it isn't true . And I wouldn't trust his word , when he choose someone as his Pet . He doesn't deserve Pet cose we know how he treat them (Sith warrior) . So yeah , I personally think the no force user class are as Good as the force users . They are all Prodigy in their field . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteryJoker Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Yeah no he said he is the best sith he saw in generations but even he is flawed. Also did not really won but kept up long enough for the trap to spring. And he is the best spy in the galaxy by the word of the developers. Probably just used stealth as you know the stronger you get the the weaker your force sense is. My example are Sidious, Valkorian,Tulak Horde every singe jedi high councilor the prequels besides Obi Wan and Yoda. Let's put it this way: if Jadus saw the agent, without even flinching, he could choke the agent to death, send them into madness, crush their mind, force fling them against a wall until they died or tossed his lightsaber at them. Jadus could have done all of this. But because of the story, agent clearly had to win and Jadus had to just run in a merry-go-round to chase the Agent down. Maybe Jadus can't use force speed on Thursdays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Let's put it this way: if Jadus saw the agent, without even flinching, he could choke the agent to death, send them into madness, crush their mind, force fling them against a wall until they died or tossed his lightsaber at them. Jadus could have done all of this. But because of the story, agent clearly had to win and Jadus had to just run in a merry-go-round to chase the Agent down. Maybe Jadus can't use force speed on Thursdays. /sigh Aren't there other threads where you could worship the gods that are the force users? I am not sure I should reply, but let's - force choke doesn't have a counter? A move that require few seconds at best to kill the target and keep in mind that we are talking about a specially trained agent to fight against force users (turned out he/she had too good training - see chapter 2 of the agent story). Madness fair enough - I don't think there is a way to resist that. Wall flinging....well...let's assume the top people (of which the agent is one...even in chapter 1) wear power armor or something:) Throwing lightsaber - fair enough again, but are we forgetting who we are talking about? The agent is not some random thug fresh from the streets... Don't get me wrong - I don't believe the agent could win vs someone like Jadus (or Thanaton/Marr etc for that matter)....tho vs an average force user the agent is probably going to win, as he/she know all their tricks and how to counter them.... What saves that encounter imo is that the agent never defeats him...he/she just survives until the dark council come to restrain Jadus...even the cage is not going to hold him... Third . Jadus didn't do squat to earn the 'Most powerful' Sith .. Actually if you bring Kaliyo when confronting Jadus she tries to shoot him and he teleport to evade the bullet/blaster bolt/whatever:) I am taking that move to judge his power.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteryJoker Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 /sigh Aren't there other threads where you could worship the gods that are the force users? I am not sure I should reply, but let's - force choke doesn't have a counter? A move that require few seconds at best to kill the target and keep in mind that we are talking about a specially trained agent to fight against force users (turned out he/she had too good training - see chapter 2 of the agent story). Madness fair enough - I don't think there is a way to resist that. Wall flinging....well...let's assume the top people (of which the agent is one...even in chapter 1) wear power armor or something:) Throwing lightsaber - fair enough again, but are we forgetting who we are talking about? The agent is not some random thug fresh from the streets... Don't get me wrong - I don't believe the agent could win vs someone like Jadus (or Thanaton/Marr etc for that matter)....tho vs an average force user the agent is probably going to win, as he/she know all their tricks and how to counter them.... What saves that encounter imo is that the agent never defeats him...he/she just survives until the dark council come to restrain Jadus...even the cage is not going to hold him... Actually if you bring Kaliyo when confronting Jadus she tries to shoot him and he teleport to evade the bullet/blaster bolt/whatever:) I am taking that move to judge his power.... Considering if the Imperial and Republic turned on the Sith and Jedi, the Orders would be wiped out. I know they're not gods. In fact, I believe Palpatine doesn't deserve half the powers given to him in the novels. I'm simply stating in that particular scenario, the agent, should have been wiped out in that encounter. Every NPC in this game (black ops, SIS, Imperial Intelligence, Hutt Cartel, White Nova, military), that says they are trained to fight Jedi/Sith, dies. Basically any highly trained fighter dies against a competent force user. They can definitely do something against the average force user, but every dirty trick is going to be needed to help against one with higher skill. That being said, the agent wasn't some all mighty bad *** when they encounter Jadus. Hell, the trap wasn't even planned out well. It was literally: go toe to toe with the poster child of the Sith and hope you survive long enough to spring the trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Considering if the Imperial and Republic turned on the Sith and Jedi, the Orders would be wiped out. I know they're not gods. In fact, I believe Palpatine doesn't deserve half the powers given to him in the novels. I'm simply stating in that particular scenario, the agent, should have been wiped out in that encounter. Every NPC in this game (black ops, SIS, Imperial Intelligence, Hutt Cartel, White Nova, military), that says they are trained to fight Jedi/Sith, dies. Basically any highly trained fighter dies against a competent force user. They can definitely do something against the average force user, but every dirty trick is going to be needed to help against one with higher skill. That being said, the agent wasn't some all mighty bad *** when they encounter Jadus. Hell, the trap wasn't even planned out well. It was literally: go toe to toe with the poster child of the Sith and hope you survive long enough to spring the trap. Fair enough. And yes - the agent was probably being sent to die and hopefully do some damage/buy some time for the DC....but he/she didn't die and thus the chapter 2 was born:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Do you know what the agent did when he/she was about to get shot by his companion in Belsavis? In one simple but efficient judo move they immobilized them before they could even press the trigger and made them faint in one well placed hit. Now that is amazing. So Darth Jadus was able to dodge bolts with his force teleportation well the agent does not even lets you shoot. So no force choke or madness or lightsaber trows will work on chipher nine because all require you time and to see the agent besides madness and well I think chipher nine is able to resist mind attacks. Anything else chipher nine uses its reflexes to dodge or counter. The best way to counter force chocke is with a counterattack be it blaster bolt or a grenade as they force you to dodge and release the grip. Also I am sure that the agent has reflexes fast enough to dodge a force push and since the fight was where the main ship computer was Jadus could not afford to use to powerful force pushes or highly destructive force powers. Remember the environment all. If Jadus would have done what he did to Kalyo the agent would have grabbed his hand and with a judo move would have sent him flying to the ground. He is a martial artist with very good training Kalyo without her weapon in very weak she even said that if they count blaster kills she has more but only if they count blaster kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethanredmace Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 Do you know what the agent did when he/she was about to get shot by his companion in Belsavis? In one simple but efficient judo move they immobilized them before they could even press the trigger and made them faint in one well placed hit. Now that is amazing. So Darth Jadus was able to dodge bolts with his force teleportation well the agent does not even lets you shoot. So no force choke or madness or lightsaber trows will work on chipher nine because all require you time and to see the agent besides madness and well I think chipher nine is able to resist mind attacks. Anything else chipher nine uses its reflexes to dodge or counter. The best way to counter force chocke is with a counterattack be it blaster bolt or a grenade as they force you to dodge and release the grip. Also I am sure that the agent has reflexes fast enough to dodge a force push and since the fight was where the main ship computer was Jadus could not afford to use to powerful force pushes or highly destructive force powers. Remember the environment all. If Jadus would have done what he did to Kalyo the agent would have grabbed his hand and with a judo move would have sent him flying to the ground. He is a martial artist with very good training Kalyo without her weapon in very weak she even said that if they count blaster kills she has more but only if they count blaster kills. That's really interesting about how the Imperial Agent dodges force attacks/pushes/etc, but Darth Nox would manage to beat him easily, just like the Barsen'thor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) That's really interesting about how the Imperial Agent dodges force attacks/pushes/etc, but Darth Nox would manage to beat him easily, just like the Barsen'thor. Beat him yes but not easy he even might get injured trying to kill the agent do not forget he is in the end the best spy in the galaxy meaning better then thousands of very well trained individuals in martial arts, marksmanship, seduction, camouflage and even undercover work and the best intelligence gathering meaning they know how to get information fast and efficient and with that comes information about the opponents skill. Also since FP are canon and all they know each others skills quite well so there is that to consider. I mean Darth Nox and Chipher nine. Edited July 31, 2016 by adormitul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I think the Jadus fight is not about the Agent beating him, but distracting him long enough for the Dark Council fleet to show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I think the Jadus fight is not about the Agent beating him, but distracting him long enough for the Dark Council fleet to show up. Which it did not reach in time I might add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethanredmace Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) Which it did not reach in time I might add. That's very interesting. The Imperial Agent is a survivor. Fighting Jadus who is supposedly 'second to the Emperor' and lasting the entire length of the fight until help arrives. This makes the Imperial Agent above Darth Jadus in terms of 'will to survive', 'skill', equipment, other things, but not above Darth Nox, The Barsen'thor, The Wrath, or in the least, The Hero Of Tython. Heck, even Valkorian told the Agent that he/she's above Jadus, but I wouldn't trust anything that lair says except for that. PS. We should try and get back on topic, but you guys can all talk about what you want as long as its SWTOR lore and stuff related. Edited July 31, 2016 by ethanredmace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 You know real quick on the subject of Darth Jadus vs the Agent. Darth Jadus was a very unique Sith who very much didn't like the idea of assets going to waste. He was really curious on how far the agent could go and he did believe the agent to have some kind of destiny. He didn't know where that destiny would lead. Given that Jadus himself is kind of a patriot towards the Empire.. how hard was Jadus really trying to kill the agent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethanredmace Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) You know real quick on the subject of Darth Jadus vs the Agent. Darth Jadus was a very unique Sith who very much didn't like the idea of assets going to waste. He was really curious on how far the agent could go and he did believe the agent to have some kind of destiny. He didn't know where that destiny would lead. Given that Jadus himself is kind of a patriot towards the Empire.. how hard was Jadus really trying to kill the agent? You're right. I shouldn't talk about it when I barely have any knowledge on the subject of Darth Jadus vs The Agent. I do have an Agent, but I played almost all of chapter 1, powerleveled him through flashpoints/warzones/and stuff, skipped to KOTFE, and etc, whereas I've played all of the Sith Inquisitor story and almost every single other story in this game. Edited July 31, 2016 by ethanredmace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForfiniteStories Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 My Consular would whip my Inquisitor's *** across time and space and back again and then some. Therefore, in regard to my Consular and Inquisitor, the Barsen'thor would win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 My Consular would whip my Inquisitor's *** across time and space and back again and then some. Therefore, in regard to my Consular and Inquisitor, the Barsen'thor would win. Why do you believe this? I am curious because as far as I/we? know their combat abilities are on the same level - so the battle will be decided by who can throw out more power. And that is Nox...he/she probably have few times more power (with the ghosts) even than the JC:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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