Sith Sorcerers In PVP

[Orel]

Level 50 Sorcerer reporting in.

 

I have like 450 expertise and pretty good gear overall.

 

I'm also specced Madness, so I can't say much about other specs.

 

We are the squishiest class in the game as far as I can see. Our bubble absorbs little damage for such high cooldown.

 

We need a lot of time to establish a proper rotation. As a madness Sorc. I need 1 channeled lightning, 1 GCD (aoe) to prep the target, another 3 to put my DoTs on it, and then channel lightning again, = 3 secs + 1.5 + 1.5 +1.5 +1.5 = 9 seconds if I can land everything. I can't , often times.

 

In a proper PvP setting, this sequence lasts from 5 to 10 seconds if I can't land it, I pump out very low damage and die to an opponent with 70%+ HP.

 

Also, a little Q&A :

 

 

> Q : I die to Sorcs. all the time, what do I do ?

> A : Pop his bubble out as soon as you can, and don't snare him until he has done his sprint. Once he sprints, grip/charge/snare/stun/ him and two-shot the Sorcerer.

 

> Q : But, he controls me all the time !!

> A : Most classes have at least as much crowd control options as the Sorcerer. If he has all his cooldowns up and you haven't, your chances of winning are slim, assuming equal skill. As a Sorcerer I feel very vulnerable to CC myself since I use my two evading options (Force Dispel which only works on few CC spells) and the Sith equivalent of CC-breaking trinketing with a 2 minute cooldown mostly for objectives.

I can more or less control 3 players at once to land a point in Huttball for limited time, that's true, but 5 seconds later, once they break free, I'm dead meat.

 

> Q : All I see is that damn purple lightning all over the place, I shouldn't have to deal with this !

> A : I always get focused by enemy teams as soon as I pop lightning since it's so visible. If your team does not target us, it's not our problem. Tell Assassins in your team to take out Sorcerers. I have found this to be a very good tactic and Assassins converge on me as soon as they see me in Warzones. Alternatively, Snipers are very strong against us.

[Tebbo]

Another republic kiddie crying nerf when he sees lightning?

 

I'll bet you are just the most fun guy at parties.

[Zhentarion]

Op Get real all classes are fine L2P!

[CHRISGG]

Yeah one shot you with 11000 hp....sure. Your freaking shield absorbs 3 melee combos alone at lvl 30.

 

Fully talented shield absorbs around ~2.5k which is one attack from half of the moves in the game.

[Chiricahua]

I hate to be the one to say it and I certainly hate to be the one advocating for a nerf but seriously. Sith Sorcerers are OP as heck! I may be the first one to come out and say it but seriously Bio-ware swing the bat before the whole game population rolls one.

 

The first person who says learn to play the game is more than likely a sith sorcerer laughing their behinds off at how simple it is to push the "I win" button.

 

If you don't think im tell the truth then look for yourself. Tells the population what the character class breakdowns are. I would guess its overwhelmingly Sith Sorceres for the empire. I can't go into a warzone game without having to fight 4 of them on a good day and on the worst days it's 6. Its all just purple lightning from every direction.

 

I know there is a huge fear of swing that bat so early after release but seriously bite the bullit and fix it.

 

Possible Solutions

 

1. raise the force cost to a point they can't use it as often.

2. decrease the range to 10

3. decrease the damage of it.

4. take the root out of it.

 

Do something to even the playing field!

 

I made the same nerf call about 4 days ago, but if you look at jedi sage, it is indeed a mirror. Therefore if you nerf jedi sorcerer, then you must also nerf jedi sage.

[Orel]

Fully talented shield absorbs around ~2.5k which is one attack from half of the moves in the game.

 

 

That's true. They should either make it more resistant to physical damage or buff our flash heal a little bit to make it viable in a fight.

 

We are 90% fine though, but that's because of the inherent latency of the game.

If people are ever able to interrupt and snare us efficiently without lag, we will have some trouble competing.

 

I'm happy with the class design though so far.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Orel

[Rikia]

 

My main problem with Sith Sorcerer's (Or Sages) Is when you run into a group of them. In most of my PVP matched today most of the team were 5-7 Inquisitors. The damage they can put out and the amount of mobility the class has, these matched become instant wins for that team.

 

In world PVP I have taken on a Sorcerer and won, they aren't OP 1 vs 1, its when the come in warzones of 4 or more that they become an issue that everyone is qqing over.

 

This for me. I don't think they are OP on 1vs1 situation. However they are very powerfull if they are stacked. I do see alot of WZ matches where the opponent has 4-5 sorcerors (max was 6 out of 8... and thats just silly). I don't mind I can't kill the oponent since I am healer specced sage. Still 29 so I can't say much about high end healing but I do really get annoyed that the only thing I can pull off is my instant cast hot and bubble. The rest... well eighther does less healing than the damage I am getting or they are easily interruptable. (long cast even with talents 1.5 sec is still long cast)

 

It will be hard to balance, considering the game is a very PVE orientated game. I do hope they don't balance classes based on PVP.

[Orel]

This for me. I don't think they are OP on 1vs1 situation. However they are very powerfull if they are stacked. I do see alot of WZ matches where the opponent has 4-5 sorcerors (max was 6 out of 8... and thats just silly). I don't mind I can't kill the oponent since I am healer specced sage. Still 29 so I can't say much about high end healing but I do really get annoyed that the only thing I can pull off is my instant cast hot and bubble. The rest... well eighther does less healing than the damage I am getting or they are easily interruptable. (long cast even with talents 1.5 sec is still long cast)

 

It will be hard to balance, considering the game is a very PVE orientated game. I do hope they don't balance classes based on PVP.

 

Try facing 6 Sorcerers.

Then try facing 6 random opponents.

 

In both cases, you'll die in 3 seconds.

 

Next argument please.

[zeroburrito]

Fully talented shield absorbs around ~2.5k which is one attack from half of the moves in the game.

 

you're spoiled. 2.5k is not half of the moves in the game.

[Maxxacre]

Why is it that when I finally get bored enough to log on to these forums, a "nerf sorcerer" thread is ALWAYS on top in this section. And there are at least a few just on the first page alone.

 

What's funny... if anything, the Sorcerer needs a buff. I played a Sorcerer to the mid 30s... rerolled Republic because of long Empire PvP queues and constant same-faction Huttball. Still though, as a Jedi Shadow, I hit WAY harder and kill targets WAY faster. I run into Sorcerers a few levels higher than me in the open world, where there is no bolstering, and 10 times out of 10 I completely destroy them. In Warzones, where it's team vs. team, it's just a matter of how good my team is, and how good the enemy team is.

 

The OP's complaint is that he sees lightning everywhere, and therefore Sorcerers should be nerfed? Do you realize the ridiculousness of suggesting that you nerf a ranged class to a 10m maximum range and make it so they can't attack very often? Get real.

 

Sorcerers are fine. Their damage is relatively low, but they have a lot of tricks up their sleeves. All that means is that the good ones have a lot to work with... the bad ones that think they can just 1-2 button DPS are going to get wrecked all the time.

 

You ever wonder why you don't see Empire players QQing about Jedi Sages? They are the same exact thing... but nobody complains about them because they aren't way over populated and they don't have flashy looking attacks. It may sound trivial, but the fact that you can see the lightning more easily than anything else on the battlefield, and you know when a Sorcerer is hitting you vs. any of the other classes, means that you're likely to blame your death on that Sorcerer, even if he wasn't doing most of the damage.

 

In reality, you may have just been hit by a Sniper for a total of 9k damage, and a Sorcerer was in there for the same amount of time and did 2.5k damage... but you see the lightning and you blame the Sorcerer.

 

I'm sure you guys will be quick to disagree, but you can't jump to conclusions about the amount of damage a Sorcerer puts out unless you've played a Sorcerer. I've heard the most ridiculous complaints about Sorcs... like people saying their Force Lightning hits for 2k per tick, or that they are all instant-casts, their bubble absorbs all damage and can be up 100% of the time, etc. Frankly, it's just not true. None of it.

 

Fact... Sorcerers do mediocre damage, at best. Fact... Sorcerers are very squishy and are pretty easy to kill. Fact... nobody focuses Sorcerers in PvP. I can't tell you how many times I see melee clustered up fighting each other, and the ranged classes just nuking into the fray. As a Sorcerer, I saw this all the time... I was able to free cast and nobody would really come after me, or if they did they would give up quickly when I backed off just a little bit or used my only stun or slow on them and gain distance. They would go right back to melee.

 

As a Jedi Shadow, I observe the same thing of course but from a different perspective. But when I see a Sniper, Sorcerer, Mercenary, or Operative sitting back and free casting, DPSing, or healing without anyone bothering to attack or intterupt them... I go right for them. And when I do... they die. Quickly.

 

If people would actually focus the right targets in PvP, they would see that those high damage ranged targets are quite easy to kill. But you're not doing yourself, or your team, any favors by ignoring them and letting them free cast on you... then complaining on the forums about how OP they are when you die and you happen to see lightning hitting you at the time.

 

Get... real....

 

And yes... this is from someone who doesn't main Sorcerer anymore. I quit playing that class, and that faction as a whole. Do you think if it was as OP as you think it is, I would have quit playing it? Probably not.

 

Also... while I'm at it... here's a video of me playing Sorcerer on Voidstar. You can see just how low my damage is... yet I don't die at all and put out great overall damage because of simply playing decently and the fact that the enemy team generally ignores me. Enjoy:

 

[Orel]

Big amount of text

 

We have (very) high damage, and get focused a lot these days.

Other than that, you're mostly right about your rant.

[farvaa]

i pvp allot name paladar from jedi covenant and i dont see this everything seems fine i play a bh and i can take on those classes 1v1 and "can" come out with quite a bit of health left maby my server doesnt have allot of 50 repubs yet but in civil war 3 turret place i get in allot of 1v1s and i gotta say skill over class. Edited December 28, 2011 by farvaa

[IceDread]

A nerf is really need it.

 

A stupid person is an execution needed.

[Ikon]

People keep saying use interrupts and stun them but I think people forget they have 2 stuns they can use on a 50 second timers as someone stated earlier. As A BH I have 1 stun break ever 2 minutes and it is almost never back when I need it so it usually results in me getting stunned twice for 4-5 seconds each time which is more than enough time to kill me while I cannot fight back.

 

Do I think SS is op?, yes a little bit but I think it's because the nature of the PvP game is flawed and should have a instant debuff once stunned where you cannot be stunned for 8-10 seconds. CC's should not control how the fight is dictated the entire fight, they should be advantages but it is becoming very clear in this game that PvP is all about CC and over using it is leading to win.

 

Fixing the system will balance the professions out more, once that is in place small tweaks can be done to professions WITHOUT major work being done on any profesion.

[Maxxacre]

People keep saying use interrupts and stun them but I think people forget they have 2 stuns they can use on a 50 second timers as someone stated earlier. As A BH I have 1 stun break ever 2 minutes and it is almost never back when I need it so it usually results in me getting stunned twice for 4-5 seconds each time which is more than enough time to kill me while I cannot fight back.

 

Do I think SS is op?, yes a little bit but I think it's because the nature of the PvP game is flawed and should have a instant debuff once stunned where you cannot be stunned for 8-10 seconds. CC's should not control how the fight is dictated the entire fight, they should be advantages but it is becoming very clear in this game that PvP is all about CC and over using it is leading to win.

 

Fixing the system will balance the professions out more, once that is in place small tweaks can be done to professions WITHOUT major work being done on any profesion.

 

1. Sorcerers also only have one CC breakout and it's on the same timer as you. That's what all classes get. If it's not back when you need it, it's probably not back when that Sorcerer needs it either.

 

2. Don't go out fighting alone in a warzone unless you really need to in order to get the objectives or defend them.

 

3. You have the same stun as a Sorcerer, and as for his long duration Whirlwind, it takes 3 seconds to cast and it breaks on damage. If he stuns you and hits you, then casts Whirlwind on you, then hits you again, you're free. That means you have suffered all of 2 attacks from being CC'd by the Sorcerer. That's not a big deal, especially considering

 

A) you have the same ability to CC him and equal it out

B) you can easily use his casting of Whirlwind to get off 2 attacks before you interrupt, as it'll slow down his casting when he gets hit. That means you can actually use his 3 second cast CC to YOUR advantage.

 

Pro tips for PvP....

 

CC isn't as bad as you're making it out to be in a 1v1. Now if you're getting stun locked by a number of people with their 4 second stuns, that just means either:

 

A) you over-extended and you bit off more than you could chew, in other words a poor tactical decision; or

B) you're being focused in a team fight, which simply means it's up to your team mates. If they're good they'll be using CC of their own and you can use that as an opportunity to get some distance and lose some of that focus, then re-engage when the enemy has started to focus new targets on the objective... which should be easy as you're a BH.

 

Problems solved.

[Areoss]

They actually dont need nerfing. There is just so many of them which makes it seem like it does... weird isnt it?

 

The only reason so many people play them is because of all the toys they get at low level to help them level up.

 

When you reach end game... they tend to squish easily unless its actually a good player using one.

 

I personally have no problem as a Rage Jug taking them on in huttball. Force Push one into the pit either side of the ball pick up zone... and start eating them Or just use LoS to my advantage. Say 2 jump me... I just knock one away and choke the other while he scrambles to get back. Since im Rage... Smash gains Damage from choke. So I do an Obliterate to get an insta crit and there goes half of the strangled sorc before he can do anything.

 

Nomnom

 

I think the issue is though, is that most people who play Sorcs are what I like to call "The hunters of WoW"... there are a crap ton of them and they 3v1 all the time. The majority aren't the brightest of the bunch but there are some that really are good and can fry people easily. Just gotta know your class and their class. Take them out of their comfort zone and take them off guard.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Areoss

[Ikon]

1. Sorcerers also only have one CC breakout and it's on the same timer as you. That's what all classes get. If it's not back when you need it, it's probably not back when that Sorcerer needs it either.

 

2. Don't go out fighting alone in a warzone unless you really need to in order to get the objectives or defend them.

 

3. You have the same stun as a Sorcerer, and as for his long duration Whirlwind, it takes 3 seconds to cast and it breaks on damage. If he stuns you and hits you, then casts Whirlwind on you, then hits you again, you're free. That means you have suffered all of 2 attacks from being CC'd by the Sorcerer. That's not a big deal, especially considering

 

A) you have the same ability to CC him and equal it out

B) you can easily use his casting of Whirlwind to get off 2 attacks before you interrupt, as it'll slow down his casting when he gets hit. That means you can actually use his 3 second cast CC to YOUR advantage.

 

Pro tips for PvP....

 

CC isn't as bad as you're making it out to be in a 1v1. Now if you're getting stun locked by a number of people with their 4 second stuns, that just means either:

 

A) you over-extended and you bit off more than you could chew, in other words a poor tactical decision; or

B) you're being focused in a team fight, which simply means it's up to your team mates. If they're good they'll be using CC of their own and you can use that as an opportunity to get some distance and lose some of that focus, then re-engage when the enemy has started to focus new targets on the objective... which should be easy as you're a BH.

 

Problems solved.

 

I really don't think you PvP all that much or generally have no clue about other classes other than your own(SS most likely). I was gonna make a big post back explaining things to you but judging from your post I don't think anything would do any good in this case. I will leave you with this though, BH has no ranged interrupts other than their stun which is 10 seconds longer than the SS which you don't realize. BH big attacks take just as long as a SS to get off and honestly their single target DPS is very comparable, however SS crowd control is leagues a head of BH with stuns/roots/snares. Add to that they have the same range as a BH for attacks, a force run and what was said in this thread as a 3 second cloak upon the shield being broke.. that puts SS a lot further a head in tactical advantage.

 

Again, fixing the time in between CC's would solve this, but feel free to defend your class and say there is no fix needed because it benefits your class.

[Makhbet]

Sorcerers are fine, go whine about something else.

[KorwinOfAmber]

I gotta say, sorcs need a buff. Both healing spec and Lightning atm are seriously underwhelming. Madness is popular and hated, but that period will pass.

 

The only real advantage sorc has over other classes atm, is ability to pump out damage indifinitely from 30m away (still, if utilizing max of your potential, mana is a problem) and they only top DPS in Warzones, since they do exactly that - stand far away and nuke people fighting, occasionaly appliying 20 seconds useless dot that contributes a lot to "total damage".

And that kind of gameplay only exists since enemy team allows it. In any situation where sorc starts taking damage theres only one smart thing for him to do - run.

 

People that complain about sorc, should really try to roll one.

[Saprezzan]

I think the problem with sorcerers is that they're very easy to play, thus making them very, very popular (and I guess lightning also helps, because their mirror - Sage isn't as numerous on Republic side).

 

Most of them just spam force lightning, bolted to their place. But sadly enough, it actually works. The channel just follows their target in melee, making it very easy to just fight it toe to toe if they get jumped.

 

I think it's perhaps the fact that their main attack is also a snare is a bit OP. Remove the snare from it and it'd be fine, I'd say. Ranged snares in general are a big no-no, I reckon. Force them (pun intended) to actually kite.

[CHRISGG]

I think the problem with sorcerers is that they're very easy to play, thus making them very, very popular (and I guess lightning also helps, because their mirror - Sage isn't as numerous on Republic side).

 

Most of them just spam force lightning, bolted to their place. But sadly enough, it actually works. The channel just follows their target in melee, making it very easy to just fight it toe to toe if they get jumped.

 

I think it's perhaps the fact that their main attack is also a snare is a bit OP. Remove the snare from it and it'd be fine, I'd say. Ranged snares in general are a big no-no, I reckon. Force them (pun intended) to actually kite.

 

how does 400dps actually work?

[Saprezzan]

how does 400dps actually work?

 

Don't know, but apparently it's enough to top the DPS chart from what I've seen

 

But that's not my main gripe; it's the ranged snare combined into the class' main attack.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Saprezzan

[Esxca]

we are not at all easy to play. yes some players only spam force lightning but that wont get you anywhere. a good sorc kites needs to prioritise procs keep his dots running run heal cc.

 

try that with you melee hack and slash char's press 1 2 3 4 5 , faceroll!

[CHRISGG]

Don't know, but apparently it's enough to top the DPS chart from what I've seen

 

But that's not my main gripe; it's the ranged snare combined into the class' main attack.

 

No, people who spam only force lightning end games with like 40k damage done. I see them every single game. The players topping damage charts are actually using many different spells they just all have the same lightning animation.

[Saprezzan]

As I said, their damage isn't a problem. Force lightning with a built-in snare is.