adormitul Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) So if Kenobi was in the jedi temple during Anakin's assault with the clone troopers would the attack fail? We know that among the jedi order only 2 other jedi where stronger then Anakin at that time Obi Wan and of course Yoda but its no doubt how it will go what will happen if the grandmaster was there with Obi Wan there would the attack fail? Obi Wan could keep Anakin busy enough time if not actually defeating him for the other jedi in the temple to kill the clone troopers or the result will be the same either way because the clone troopers where to many and too strong? Edited June 2, 2016 by adormitul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 So if Kenobi was in the jedi temple during Anakin's assault with the clone troopers would the attack fail? We know that among the jedi order only 2 other jedi where stronger then Anakin at that time Obi Wan and of course Yoda but its no doubt how it will go what will happen if the grandmaster was there with Obi Wan there would the attack fail? Obi Wan could keep Anakin busy enough time if not actually defeating him for the other jedi in the temple to kill the clone troopers or the result will be the same either way because the clone troopers where to many and too strong? It really depends. Obi Wan wasn't more powerful than Anakin. They were pretty close to each other's levels which presented a fight that could go either way. Also I want to point out that Windu and Yoda were both above Anakin's level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) It wouldn't have mattered, this is an entire legion of Clones attacking the Temple when most able bodied Jedi were out and about in the galaxy. Along with a new Sith Lord, here at the time, Anakin wouldn't be emotionally unbalanced as he was on Mustafar(thus affecting his performance overall) and would cleave through Obi-Wan sooner or later. Edited June 2, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 It wouldn't have mattered, this is an entire legion of Clones attacking the Temple when most able bodied Jedi were out and about in the galaxy. Along with a new Sith Lord, here at the time, Anakin wouldn't be emotionally unbalanced as he was on Mustafar(thus affecting his performance overall) and would cleave through Obi-Wan sooner or later. Well this is the thing I bet is later I mean he was the master of form 3 and he can and could keep up a long long long fight while in the end Anakin will get the edge this might be after hours and hours of fighting. Also is not like Obi Wan was emotionally balanced when he fought Anakin on Mustafar either especially since he saw well hundreds of jedi dead many of them children all at the hands of his former apprentice. But Obi Wan can does control his emotions way better then Anakin. While a Anakin fights Obi Wan what stops the rest of the jedi masters to well cut trough the entire legion? Is it a legion yes but their hundreds of jedi in there and some master rank. Can hundreds of jedi kill 10000 troopers? There where cases where hundreds of human soldiers managed to repel tens of thousands of troops and they did not had the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Well this is the thing I bet is later I mean he was the master of form 3 and he can and could keep up a long long long fight while in the end Anakin will get the edge this might be after hours and hours of fighting. Also is not like Obi Wan was emotionally balanced when he fought Anakin on Mustafar either especially since he saw well hundreds of jedi dead many of them children all at the hands of his former apprentice. But Obi Wan can does control his emotions way better then Anakin. While a Anakin fights Obi Wan what stops the rest of the jedi masters to well cut trough the entire legion? Is it a legion yes but their hundreds of jedi in there and some master rank. Can hundreds of jedi kill 10000 troopers? There where cases where hundreds of human soldiers managed to repel tens of thousands of troops and they did not had the force. Again, all able bodied Jedi were gone from the Temple at the time of the attack, there wasn't nearly enough Jedi to repel an attack from an entire legion of Clones. Shaak Ti knew the Temple was doomed and fled, while making sure Padawans and Younglings escaped. Cin Drallig stood his ground, not abandoning his students and was cut down. Obi-Wan went to Mustafar with the purpose of defeating Anakin, he wasn't nearly as hindered as Anakin was. Obi-Wan might be the master of Form 3 but even on the Mustafar duel he wasn't getting anywhere with defeating Anakin up until that cliff, which also was a gamble on his part. In this scenario there is no hindered Anakin, meaning he won't act rash or stupid and there is no ledge for Obi-Wan to take advantage of...not that it would really end up working as Obi-Wan would also needing to be dealing with Clones in the process. Edited June 3, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Obi-Wan might be the master of Form 3 but even on the Mustafar duel he wasn't getting anywhere with defeating Anakin up until that cliff, which also was a gamble on his part. But that was the point of the mastery of Form 3, Obi-wan basically can defend himself almost indefinitely and wait to capitalise on a mistake by his opponent which is what happened he defended until he found himself a strategic advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonVII Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Let's put it this way. During the attack on the Temple Anakin took out Cin Dralling, THE jedi battlemaster in lightsaber combat. When Anakin was in full Vader mode, he tore through jedi like it was nothing. On Mustafaar, Anakin wasn't vader, he was simply angry Anakin since he got completely unbalanced by Padme. Hell had Padme not shown up, Anakin likely would of defeated Obi-wan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 But that was the point of the mastery of Form 3, Obi-wan basically can defend himself almost indefinitely and wait to capitalise on a mistake by his opponent which is what happened he defended until he found himself a strategic advantage. Sure it is, but in this scenario that won't happen. Anakin isn't emotionally unbalanced as he was on Mustafar via the fact he killed his fellow Jedi(you see him crying before Padme arrived, indicating he was regretting what he had done), ontop of that he did all this to save Padme only for her to turn on him...the final nail would be thinking that she brought Obi-Wan to kill him. All of this becomes null and void given the scenario here, Anakin won't be stupid in this instance and there's no way for Obi-Wan to gain any advantage with all the Clones around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 Sure it is, but in this scenario that won't happen. Anakin isn't emotionally unbalanced as he was on Mustafar via the fact he killed his fellow Jedi(you see him crying before Padme arrived, indicating he was regretting what he had done), ontop of that he did all this to save Padme only for her to turn on him...the final nail would be thinking that she brought Obi-Wan to kill him. All of this becomes null and void given the scenario here, Anakin won't be stupid in this instance and there's no way for Obi-Wan to gain any advantage with all the Clones around. I think you underestimate the power of rage. You know have you ever heard of dark ragea dark side ability where your strength and speed are increased well yeah on Mustafar, Anakin was faster and stronger then the when he was in the Jedi temple. Oh by the way in a comic Vader was capture by the son of Tarkin and tortured with all kinds of things but when shown the memory of Padme Vader basically went in such a rage that he could defy death and pretty much was a unstoppable being killing the son of Tarkin together with countless enemy troops and survived a whole building falling on him. As I said you underestimate his rage while he loses finesse and tactical skill he gains speed and strength and the ability to defy death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I think you underestimate the power of rage. You know have you ever heard of dark ragea dark side ability where your strength and speed are increased well yeah on Mustafar, Anakin was faster and stronger then the when he was in the Jedi temple. Oh by the way in a comic Vader was capture by the son of Tarkin and tortured with all kinds of things but when shown the memory of Padme Vader basically went in such a rage that he could defy death and pretty much was a unstoppable being killing the son of Tarkin together with countless enemy troops and survived a whole building falling on him. As I said you underestimate his rage while he loses finesse and tactical skill he gains speed and strength and the ability to defy death. Except Anakin wasn't fully immersed in the dark side, again he was described as being torn between worlds as of the Mustafar duel, he was less than what he was at the Jedi Temple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 Except Anakin wasn't fully immersed in the dark side, again he was described as being torn between worlds as of the Mustafar duel, he was less than what he was at the Jedi Temple. Well while he started like that he drew more and more power from his anger as the duel progressed and in the end he was immersed in the dark side to bad that he lost his limbs and well lungs and just willed himself to live for quite some time. Now that is dark rage at its best. By the way in the novels Obi Wan did not try to cut his limbs he tried block his hit but he made a mistake in timing his parry and acted a little too fast and well happened what happened. For god sake Obi Wan knows how to counterattack such a move as its his own move. As I said tactic and finesse kinda suffers from dark rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaincr Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 If Obi-Wan had been in the temple, he'd be dead. We saw some very powerful Jedi taken down by Clone Troopers in the movie, even members of the Council were mowed down. At the time of the Council attack, Anakin was far more committed to his anger and hatred then he was after his Wife ripped his bleeding heart out of his chest and crushed it under her heel which left Anakin somewhat conflicted and probably distracted. As well, I believe that it was the will of the force that the Jedi fall, they had grown so self entitled and arrogant that the universe forced a reformation on them. If Anakin and a legion of Clone Troopers had found Obi-Wan in the temple, there would have been no conflict in Anakin or hesitation because he believed that not only was he screwed by the Jedi and betrayed, but that by purging the Jedi he would gain enough power to save his wife. In the Temple he was a crusader, in the lave fields of Mustafar he wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith-Viscera Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Anakin, was Anakin's worst enemy. If he wasn't so reckless and Power Hungry, as well full of hate, and full of his self. He would of known, Obi Wan had the higher ground and he had a better angle of attack upon him. But in stead Anakin attack from a bad angle and his timing was off do to him being impatient. Which was a lesson Obi Wan tried teaching him many times and in the end it cost Anakin more than flesh and bone. It wasn't that Obi wan was stronger in the force, he just let the force flow through him naturally and had the patients & Mastery, to wait for the right time. Anakin did the rest. As far as the Ops, question. Would Obi wan stopped Anakin attack? I think he slowed him down enough to allow the people to escape, or most of them. But in that environment and situation, would he beat him? No, but i don't believe Anakin could strike his Master down at that point not in the temple where Obi wan can draw from the ancient powers of the force, that dwells there... JMO...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanyaCross Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 But that was the point of the mastery of Form 3, Obi-wan basically can defend himself almost indefinitely and wait to capitalise on a mistake by his opponent which is what happened he defended until he found himself a strategic advantage. There's no such thing as a perfect defense in martial arts, and even the greatest Jedi in the universe can't make his lightsaber appear in two places at once (although I'm sure the EU was building up to that with Luke and Palpatine), so at some point one of the hundreds of clone-troopers shooting at Obi-Wan would just get lucky, or throw enough explosives at him to finally catch him off-guard, or just keep coming until he was too tired to raise his arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 There's no such thing as a perfect defense in martial arts, and even the greatest Jedi in the universe can't make his lightsaber appear in two places at once (although I'm sure the EU was building up to that with Luke and Palpatine), so at some point one of the hundreds of clone-troopers shooting at Obi-Wan would just get lucky, or throw enough explosives at him to finally catch him off-guard, or just keep coming until he was too tired to raise his arms. That is the problem with jedi they do not break neck with TK very often. I mean you can kill legion upon legion upon legion of stormtroopers like that but no they do not do that. You know someone on this forum that showed me a dark jedi that was a jedi before who killed a whole room of thugs in seconds by simply pressing with the force the area that connect the brain to the rest of the body so we can move, eat, feel. I swear if that dude was in the temple at that time all those troopers would have been dead very dead. But he was not. That is the problem with holding back you get killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simbr Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) If Obi Wan had been in the temple then he would have gone to face the Emperor with with Mace Windu and the attack on the temple would never have happened. Edited June 14, 2016 by Simbr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) There's no such thing as a perfect defense in martial arts, and even the greatest Jedi in the universe can't make his lightsaber appear in two places at once (although I'm sure the EU was building up to that with Luke and Palpatine), so at some point one of the hundreds of clone-troopers shooting at Obi-Wan would just get lucky, or throw enough explosives at him to finally catch him off-guard, or just keep coming until he was too tired to raise his arms. Incorrect. There's been many instances where some of the top tier Jedi have been described as having multiple "lightsabers" via it moving so quickly that it creates marrages. Vader does have a feat where he was moving his lightsaber "so fast" that it appeared he had a red barrier around him deflecting blaster bolts "simultaneously" from "All angles." While it's still technically impossible to be in two places at once with enough speed that wouldn't matter. Though, this is Vader and you do have a point about Obi Wan eventually getting tired or the clone troopers advancing their tactics. Not to mention if Obi Wan was taking fire of the clone troopers vader WOULD exploit that. Obi Wan vs Vader + Clones = A dead Obi. Not to mention this is the 501st. The group that has taken down a Jedi Master before. Aka General Krell. Edited June 14, 2016 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simbr Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 The real questions here is, what if Ewoks were in the temple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 Not to mention this is the 501st. The group that has taken down a Jedi Master before. Aka General Krell. Yeah barely and again it was PIS any time a non force users even if their in millions defeat a force user is PIS because they can not protect their internal organs. Sorry but that is the truth. The stormtroopers should not have managed to kill the jedi in the temple. Only of they use stealth generators but they did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Yeah barely and again it was PIS any time a non force users even if their in millions defeat a force user is PIS because they can not protect their internal organs. Sorry but that is the truth. The stormtroopers should not have managed to kill the jedi in the temple. Only of they use stealth generators but they did not. They didn't kill them on their own in the temple. Anakin led the charge. He was at the front. Look, no matter how you slice it. If Obi Wan struggles with Anakin then any other force aiding Anakin tips the scales in his favor. My point is the 501st fought Krell. If they + Anakin engaged Obi Wan that's too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 They didn't kill them on their own in the temple. Anakin led the charge. He was at the front. Look, no matter how you slice it. If Obi Wan struggles with Anakin then any other force aiding Anakin tips the scales in his favor. My point is the 501st fought Krell. If they + Anakin engaged Obi Wan that's too much. What do you think the other jedi will do? They should kill the troopers letting Anakin and Obi Wan duel. Did you forgot there where hundreds of jedi there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasaed Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 What do you think the other jedi will do? They should kill the troopers letting Anakin and Obi Wan duel. Did you forgot there where hundreds of jedi there? Did you forget that the "hundreds of Jedi" were killed by troopers? Sure, Anakin was there and probably took down the majority of them, but the clones far outnumbered the Jedi. They'd dispatch the Jedi that tried to interfere and then take some shots at Obi-wan. Many of the Jedi wouldn't have even been engaging the clones, they'd be trying to help the Padawans and younglings escape the Temple. They'd be guiding them and trying to avoid the clones. If anything, they might let Obi-wan and the others fight the clones so they could save as many as possible while the clones are "distracted". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 Did you forget that the "hundreds of Jedi" were killed by troopers? Sure, Anakin was there and probably took down the majority of them, but the clones far outnumbered the Jedi. They'd dispatch the Jedi that tried to interfere and then take some shots at Obi-wan. Many of the Jedi wouldn't have even been engaging the clones, they'd be trying to help the Padawans and younglings escape the Temple. They'd be guiding them and trying to avoid the clones. If anything, they might let Obi-wan and the others fight the clones so they could save as many as possible while the clones are "distracted". I just pointed in sever threads before that numbers do not matter they can not protect themselves against TK on their internal organs. They just do not use it there because their well stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasaed Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I just pointed in sever threads before that numbers do not matter they can not protect themselves against TK on their internal organs. They just do not use it there because their well stupid. They are not stupid, if they could protect themselves as easily as you claim they could, then they would do it, anything to help them in combat, to survive and protect the Republic. Order 66 would've failed and Palpatine would have some explaining to do. Numbers do matter, as several Jedi masters were killed by a squad or two of troopers, mainly due to the element of surprise, but a few managed to raise their sabers to try and intercept the blaster bolts, but they still fell as they couldn't stop them all. They are not all powerful, there were a few among them that had grown exceptionally strong, but they had grown weak from their centuries of peace, with the Order constantly losing more and more members in the Clone Wars. Yoda, one of the most powerful Jedi at the time, survived because he was on Kashyyyk, with only two troopers near him when Order 66 was given. Sensing their intentions, he quickly beheaded them and made his escape. Had he been at the temple, or in the midst of battle with several squads of troopers at his back, he too would eventually have been overwhelmed and killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanyaCross Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Incorrect. There's been many instances where some of the top tier Jedi have been described as having multiple "lightsabers" via it moving so quickly that it creates marrages. Vader does have a feat where he was moving his lightsaber "so fast" that it appeared he had a red barrier around him deflecting blaster bolts "simultaneously" from "All angles." I'm calling BS on that with Vader. If his bionic limbs could move at that speed there would be no point whatsoever to having living troopers because you could have droids that could move faster than humans could even see. And if he's using the force to push himself into moving that fast, then he'd likely have to replace his joints after every fight, assuming they didn't tear away at the point metal meets flesh. While it's still technically impossible to be in two places at once with enough speed that wouldn't matter. Though, this is Vader and you do have a point about Obi Wan eventually getting tired or the clone troopers advancing their tactics. Not to mention if Obi Wan was taking fire of the clone troopers vader WOULD exploit that. Obi Wan vs Vader + Clones = A dead Obi. Not to mention this is the 501st. The group that has taken down a Jedi Master before. Aka General Krell. Exactly. Large groups of troopers took down Jedi all over the galaxy, and they had experience doing it even before the purge in Clone Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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