Make EV Hard Again!

[SeCKSEgai]

I really find this all ironic - the very people complaining that ev and/or kp is too easy STILL RUN IT FOR GEAR.

 

"It's ok if we do because we're good but the rest of the community shouldn't be entitled"/

 

Right now I'm trying to buy a priority TFB HM run pubside to finish off my last remaining pieces. The folks in my guild all need pieces and the one nim ready guild that offered is primarily imp side. Can you honestly say increasing a raid that has been done to death will suddenly bring back all those progression groups that left?

 

Asking for EV/KP to be hard is merely elitist talk. You might as well say - i got this best-in-slot gear in there but others shouldn't because...reasons.

[shyroman]

I really find this all ironic - the very people complaining that ev and/or kp is too easy STILL RUN IT FOR GEAR.

 

"It's ok if we do because we're good but the rest of the community shouldn't be entitled"/

 

Right now I'm trying to buy a priority TFB HM run pubside to finish off my last remaining pieces. The folks in my guild all need pieces and the one nim ready guild that offered is primarily imp side. Can you honestly say increasing a raid that has been done to death will suddenly bring back all those progression groups that left?

 

Asking for EV/KP to be hard is merely elitist talk. You might as well say - i got this best-in-slot gear in there but others shouldn't because...reasons.

 

They used to run it for the gear because nim didn't drop 224s, idk how many nim groups run it now for the gear (because that would be quite hypocritical). One of the main arguments anyway is that 224s are only needed for the hardest of nim bosses so why would it drop on such easy bosses. At least for curt (taking an educated guess here), I doubt he's run hm ev since before nim started dropping 224s as hm was the only way to get those at that point. He's probably too busy actually doing nim raids to spam hm ev 10 times each time it becomes priority.

[MotorCityMan]

There are always these types that think that if someone else has what they have, it and them aren't worth anything. Poor souls.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

You rock!

 

 

 

Actually bro, some people just suck at things. Me? I suck at raids. I hate doing rotations because I want to use the skills that I want to use at any particular moment. I hate raid groups because everybody who's decent is an arrogant, thin-skinned ******e, and when the group sucks (like me) it takes us 3 hours to finish an 8-man SM. And I hate the bossfights because they require me to have a level of timing, awareness, and memory that I SURE AS HELL don't want to be using in my time of relaxation (i.e. gaming). I also have no interest in getting better at raiding because I have almost 0 interest in doing any actual raiding. So if I can get over-geared by doing less work than it used to require I'm ok with it.

 

Not sure if your trolling or not, but you seriously are not helping the argument in regards to offering NiM gear in SM operations.

[Lahandra]

The last thing we need to be doing is trying to make a 4 year old entry level operation hard..... This would simply be effort better spent elsewhere on a new operation..... Providing no incentive for NiM operations, and giving us no new group content with 4.0 killed any serious progression raiding in the game anyway. As far as the 224 gear is concerned, that train done left the station the first week these op's went priority.

 

While there are still a few groups doing NiM op's, the majority of the community simply waits for the EV/KP loot peniata week to come around, loads up on 224's, then goes back into hiding for the other 7 weeks as they are incapable of doing anything with "real" mechanics. It's pretty much at the point now where you can't even find a reliable pug for HM anything beyond these two basic entry level op's. The only way to reliably judge someones talent and ability in the game is by achievements (HM Revan/TOS progression, HM Coratani/Rav Progression). The "gear check" of old is meaningless past the basic requirements of stat pools.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Lahandra

[LudhaninRolgge]

I really don't see what would be the problem in making the easier HMs harder. As it is now, a lot of new players have a skewed view of HM ops and since it feels so easy on EV and KP, they don't try to improve and it's normal because it works for those 2.

Making them harder would require them to up your game, which is a good thing because if they PuG, they'd have learnt stuff they don't need to learn in EV and KP. All in all, it'd raise the average level of HM PuG which is a good thing is you ask me.

[Lahandra]

I really don't see what would be the problem in making the easier HMs harder.

 

It's time wasted that could be better spent on a new operation. Considering the size of the skeleton crew now working on this game, doing any work on "real" mechanics past raising the HP on the bosses or shortening the enrage timer would be time better spent on NEW content. The old recycled stuff is exactly what's driving people away from the game in the first place.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Lahandra

[LudhaninRolgge]

It's time wasted that could be better spent on a new operation. Considering the size of the skeleton crew now working on this game, doing any work on "real" mechanics past raising the HP on the bosses or shortening the enrage timer would be time better spent on NEW content. The old recycled stuff is exactly what's driving people away from the game in the first place.

 

Raising HP, shortening enrage and buffing damage shouldn't take a whole lot of work and I'd prefer that than everything EV and KP are right now. At least they'd require a full group of half decent player to be beaten.

Even if new mechanics would be nice, I'm well aware it would require time that the dev team has not if they were to devellop a new op.

[Lahandra]

Raising HP, shortening enrage and buffing damage shouldn't take a whole lot of work and I'd prefer that than everything EV and KP are right now. At least they'd require a full group of half decent player to be beaten.

Even if new mechanics would be nice, I'm well aware it would require time that the dev team has not if they were to devellop a new op.

 

The end goal being what?? If you tighten up the mechanics to a point where people actually HAVE to know what they are doing, you will immediately discount 90% of the players from being able to do it. At this point, other than basically taking 2 HM op's off the market for the "average" player, this accomplishes nothing. As far as the gear is concerned, it's already been farmed long ago, so there would be no motivation to run it if it was tuned up........ So ultimately it all adds up to what I was saying before.... One big waste of time.....

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lahandra

[Lodinn]

Just to the point.

Annihilation Droid XRR-3

Idea #1: When he does his Tank knockback/aggro drop, place a debuff on the tank that makes him take more damage (similar to the "Sick of You" debuff from Torque") which would necessitate a tank swap.

This isn't hard, that's merely more annoying/make it harder to do in 4 or so. Also, it'll either get tank shrekt in over 90% of pug groups or be ignorable. TfB-like swap seems more appropriate but less fitting.

Then again, that's the first boss. Think Nefra or something.

 

Idea #2: Have him occasionally "re-assemble" the cannons in the back. They should also be stronger/harder to kill and do enough damage that they would need to be tanked.

Tankable adds are better, but cannons... Not sure how is it supposed to work as adds tanking is largely about grouping them up. One cannon at a time? That might work.

 

In general, I think his damage output should be upped a small amount to make sure the healers have something to do.

I've seen things. This time those would be wipes on droid due to people dying to - yes, red circles. In average disaster pug healers have to have more actual skill than dps who are stressing them out.

 

Gharj

{snip}

#2. Make the island switches more frequent in HM. Keep everyone on their toes at all times.

Bad. I hear snipers crying already and that's justifiable given constant movement is purely annoying for some classes when implemented like this while barely affecting others. Gharj doesn't really allow for choosing between eating up some damage with cooldowns and moving, so more moving means less mobile classes may as well just run along and spam basics with no actual means of contributing on par with more mobile ones.

 

#4. Make the adds stronger and do more damage. Again, we need something for the off-tank to do here. If you're making the tanks effectively manage their AOE taunts, you're doing it right. Think along the lines of the adds for Sparky here.

Maintank still can tank those, and making the boss a glorified Sparky doesn't really make it any better/more interesting. Stronger adds, however, is a good thing to see as there will be some actual pressure in transitions. IMO, best thing would be if people with lava stacks took notably increased damage from adds/boss, which would be a separate debuff lasting longer than dot itself, making dot not-so-infinite while wrecking dps who both love lava and boss jumps.

 

Ancient Pylons

OK, this is not a boss, BW. It's not. It's a puzzle with laughable adds. And not a hard puzzle, either.

{snip}

Well it's a fun puzzle at least and the only thing it's missing is actually solving the puzzle instead of just "spam left".

I'm not to judge people who even have a special app for memorizing an order of 6 colours, but it'd be good enough to see the NiM version of EV here, where people had to coordinate clicking and manage their time more or less efficiently. 2-manning EV in 3.0 was fun enough, full 8-man group - easy, but still entertaining, and with mechanics being centered on the puzzle it'd be better to have adds who take more effort to deal with, i.e. adds placing GTAOE and thus preventing the pylon from being clicked unless tanked etc.

However, BW made their mind clear about this one with removing NiM and leaving HM only, so nuff said.

 

Infernal Council

#1. Make the tank councilmen actually require a tank. They should be putting out enough damage that if a DPS tries to fight it, they'll get rekt. Only a Tank with mitigation gear and effective use of cooldowns should be able to down these.

And how are you imagining it? Mind you, people use PT dps as tanks for Revan and whatnot, basically as long as he doesn't get bursted down too fast it's outhealable. Then, say, mara/PT may have over 2 times as much dps as a tank while having very decent mitigation resulting in 1.5 more damage taken. They tried their best to account for differences between tank and dps, namely centering adds mechanics around armor rating, but still not allowing external heals makes even operative more desirable for the job than a proper tank. Existing mechanics simply have no way to discern that difference between dps and tank, only one mechanic I can think of is - yes - a tank swap, but then again just use PT/Jugg dps who has less cooldowns but deals more damage.

If you want to restrict it for tanks only, you can make a "survival phase" first, where add will take almost no damage but hit really hard. I fail to see the purpose of this, however, as badly geared tank will get shrekt even more than a dps attempting this. If the purpose is to kill undermanning of the operation... Well, that might be, but again - what for?

 

#2. Have the DPS councilmen attack harder, cast spells that need to be interrupted, and use AOEs that need to be moved out of. The DPS should not be allowed to simply stand there and spam their rotation. They should be made to move, use their interrupts, and effectively manage their cooldowns.

The question repeats. That doesn't really make it any hard, it only makes some groups inevitably fail here. Get some baddies in, keep failing, gg.

 

#3. Keep Healer councilmen the way they are right now. Currently the only people I see struggling on this fight are healers, so I don't think you need to change anything for them.

It's fairly easy to heal, however. I'm surprized you didn't come up with cleanses or something. Whoops, did I say that aloud?

 

Soa

Phase #1: Add more lightning balls, and have them do more damage. At least 4 at a time. Soa should also spawn adds which will need to be tanked and killed in a timely fashion during this phase.

You love tanking adds, don't you?

What's in it when you have 40 bosses in the game and they all have tankable adds, huh? Paradise for you, boredom for at least a good third of all raiders.

 

And continuing that logic from above - people still struggle here, mainly cause of ignoring MTs/falling. Not to the 5-hours-wipefest degree, but still. The only tweak which would be real welcome is something with orbs, so people would actually have to do something with them.

 

tl;dr: A raid where people have a decent chance of wiping, especially if bringing along someone braindead, is a totally different beast from a neatly designed and a fun raid. Some increase in mechanics to pay attention for is incredibly welcome in KP/EV, but they all should offer some sort of a learning curve for newbs, not simply leading to group disbanding and reassembling, which is already a thing in KP (think KP 1st boss enrage).

[LudhaninRolgge]

The end goal being what??

 

The end goal is that those ops are somewhat on par with other HMs in terms of DPS and EHPS requirement. I mean, HM is supposed to be kinda hard and you should have a good knowledge of your class and rotation to be able to defeat it.

 

If you tighten up the mechanics to a point where people actually HAVE to know what they are doing, you will immediately discount 90% of the players from being able to do it.

 

And ? What's the problem ? HM is supposed to be hard (that's why it's called Hard Mode by the way). If average players want to do HM, they can if they want.

 

At this point, other than basically taking 2 HM op's off the market for the "average" player, this accomplishes nothing. As far as the gear is concerned, it's already been farmed long ago, so there would be no motivation to run it if it was tuned up........ So ultimately it all adds up to what I was saying before.... One big waste of time.....

 

Speak for yourself. I know a lot of guild on my server who would run EV and KP more if it was harder.

About gear, it has been farmed, but let's not repeat the same mistake for the next cycle.

All in all I'm pretty sure raising HP and damage done and lowering enrage timer wouldn't take that much time to do.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

The end goal is that those ops are somewhat on par with other HMs in terms of DPS and EHPS requirement. I mean, HM is supposed to be kinda hard and you should have a good knowledge of your class and rotation to be able to defeat it.

 

And ? What's the problem ? HM is supposed to be hard (that's why it's called Hard Mode by the way). If average players want to do HM, they can if they want.

 

Speak for yourself. I know a lot of guild on my server who would run EV and KP more if it was harder.

About gear, it has been farmed, but let's not repeat the same mistake for the next cycle.

All in all I'm pretty sure raising HP and damage done and lowering enrage timer wouldn't take that much time to do.

 

EV & KP are also entry HM OPs to get people used to them. I am sorry that this deflates peoples egos, but I am going to stick with the fact that BW knew what they had in mind when they included EV and KP in the priority cycle to get more people into OPs.

 

It doesn't really matter that one or two elitests on this forum have an issue with it. Nor does it matter that in your mind, they don't "need" 224 gear unless they are doing NiM. And what REALLY DOESNT MATTER is that the only reason certain people have issue with it, is because they are losing some credits from charging ridiculous amounts of credits to run people through it.

 

If you were actually honest, the fact that you are running people, who aren't ready, and who you don't seem to have an issue with having 224 gear that the don't need according to some people, as long as they are paying them 20+ million credits to acquire, rather then running the content themselves.

[LudhaninRolgge]

EV & KP are also entry HM OPs to get people used to them. I am sorry that this deflates peoples egos, but I am going to stick with the fact that BW knew what they had in mind when they included EV and KP in the priority cycle to get more people into OPs.

 

Exept EV and KP are too easy to even prepare for HM. You want to make them entry level ops, fine. But the fact they can be 5 manned let me think they don't really prepare for the wipe you gonna have on Toth & Zorn or Bestia when you figure out you lack DPS, HPS and skill to clear proper HM

 

It doesn't really matter that one or two elitests on this forum have an issue with it. Nor does it matter that in your mind, they don't "need" 224 gear unless they are doing NiM. And what REALLY DOESNT MATTER is that the only reason certain people have issue with it, is because they are losing some credits from charging ridiculous amounts of credits to run people through it.

 

Since nobody seems to care about it, let's just give 224 gear after you finished a chapter instead of this crapping green vendor junk.

 

If you were actually honest, the fact that you are running people, who aren't ready, and who you don't seem to have an issue with having 224 gear that the don't need according to some people, as long as they are paying them 20+ million credits to acquire, rather then running the content themselves.

 

I'm totally honest and I'm not runing anybody through anything.

[Lodinn]

Exept EV and KP are too easy to even prepare for HM. You want to make them entry level ops, fine. But the fact they can be 5 manned let me think they don't really prepare for the wipe you gonna have on Toth & Zorn or Bestia when you figure out you lack DPS, HPS and skill to clear proper HM

Proper HM? In 4.0? What's this?

TBH, I don't see KP/EV like entry-level hardmodes. Except if hardmodes is where numbers start to remotely matter.

Rather, it's a way to lay hands on 220/224 and I think it was intended to be so. As to why, I can't tell, but it seems BW feels it's better when every kind of player can get fairly decent gear without tryharding to the extent they basically give away BiS. After all, I don't see much of an issue with this as those who need that gear actually feel little difference between DP/DF/TfB and KP/EV, except the latter is more boring. But undermanning here helps, so I take little issue either.

 

Since nobody seems to care about it, let's just give 224 gear after you finished a chapter instead of this crapping green vendor junk.

That's where you was pointed at by other commenters - you seem to take offense with BiS gear being essentially given away. Why?

 

Also, the latter won't happen because obtaining gear should be time dilated so people would have to wait about a month at very least until they're full BiS no matter what they do.

 

The real issue with gear is not that KP/EV drop 224, the issue is the whole highlighed stuff. In 2.*, there were some gear tiers which pretty much gave a feeling of some gear progression. When design comes to content which is easily farmable with not even storymode gear (old 198 was more than enough for most of the 4.0 HMs bar Ravs/maybe EC) and which gives the new BiS... Well, that's bad. In every tier of content, there should be a long-standing goal - standing long enough so it would cover the whole time before the new tier for most players. A few finished full BiS on 2-3 raiding toons of different classes in 3.0, and since only 2 ops dropped those, and few bosses required a decent group to down, it took time (unless being farmed in full premade, that is). 4.0 gear farm is limited solely by one's patience. The whole system lacks the single piece - NiM gear. People still would rush highlights and it would be good enough for most NiMs but then for Styrak/Bront checks it would make sense to gear up.

Then again, nightmare crystals... Good thing community didn't largely accept those as a new norm.

[LudhaninRolgge]

Proper HM? In 4.0? What's this?

TBH, I don't see KP/EV like entry-level hardmodes. Except if hardmodes is where numbers start to remotely matter.

Rather, it's a way to lay hands on 220/224 and I think it was intended to be so. As to why, I can't tell, but it seems BW feels it's better when every kind of player can get fairly decent gear without tryharding to the extent they basically give away BiS. After all, I don't see much of an issue with this as those who need that gear actually feel little difference between DP/DF/TfB and KP/EV, except the latter is more boring. But undermanning here helps, so I take little issue either.

 

Because now we have a vast difference between most HMs and EV/KP. The former being kinda hard, hence the name Hard Mode where the latter is just a pushover, merely harder than a HM FP. This is a problem for a lot of reason. One of them being that's it's not an HM ops, at all. And since consistency is a good thing, I think making EV and KP harder would be a good thing.

 

That's where you was pointed at by other commenters - you seem to take offense with BiS gear being essentially given away. Why?

 

Because BiS gear should be the reward for defeating a boss in the harder difficulty mode. Just as enty level gear should be the reward for defeating a boss in the lowest difficulty mode. Right now you can do some of the easiest bosses and still get BiS gear.

 

Also, the latter won't happen because obtaining gear should be time dilated so people would have to wait about a month at very least until they're full BiS no matter what they do.

 

I was just being sarcastic there.

 

The real issue with gear is not that KP/EV drop 224, the issue is the whole highlighed stuff. In 2.*, there were some gear tiers which pretty much gave a feeling of some gear progression. When design comes to content which is easily farmable with not even storymode gear (old 198 was more than enough for most of the 4.0 HMs bar Ravs/maybe EC) and which gives the new BiS... Well, that's bad. In every tier of content, there should be a long-standing goal - standing long enough so it would cover the whole time before the new tier for most players. A few finished full BiS on 2-3 raiding toons of different classes in 3.0, and since only 2 ops dropped those, and few bosses required a decent group to down, it took time (unless being farmed in full premade, that is). 4.0 gear farm is limited solely by one's patience. The whole system lacks the single piece - NiM gear. People still would rush highlights and it would be good enough for most NiMs but then for Styrak/Bront checks it would make sense to gear up.

Then again, nightmare crystals... Good thing community didn't largely accept those as a new norm.

 

Oh I know the highlighted system is the issue, at least how it's implemented now. But the discussion was primarly about making EV harder which I'm all for, mainly because I like my HMs too be at least a little hard. But that must be just me, I must be crazy to want all HMs to be a little hard, right ?

[gabigool]

I think the defensiveness of the folks who like the current situation is far more petty, selfish and shortsighted than what I am reading from the people who see it as ridiculous.

 

Personally to me, I would much prefer the playerbase had an incentive to improve their play. In this meta there is not.

 

I believe the game becomes stronger if the playerbase is better. I believe it gives the developers more options to create meaningful content if the playerbase is better. I believe the game will last longer and make more money if the playerbase is better.

 

As someone pointed out in a different thread, at peak this game has 200 viewers on Twitch. And only people sticking their fingers in their ears truly believe this game is not hemorrhaging players.

 

This is a Star Wars MMO. The current state of the game is ridiculous, the higher-ups should be embarrassed.

 

And - please - do not try to repeat the "devs know what they are doing, and they wanted players to be able to gear up". They do not know what they are doing. Period. NM loot tables at 4.0 drop cement this. The inclusion of EV/KP into the HHM rotation was a short-sighted design decision that was no rational thought was put into.

 

"Real" HM Operations are awesome. NM is the most fun those of us that do it on a regular basis have in this game. Do you really think it is healthy to further widen the chasm between 99% of the game and this particular content?

 

Make no mistake - 224 gear in NO way prepares players for anything. 224 gear is maybe "needed" for 3 encounters I can think of. Anyone who is stomping their feet demanding the right to 224 gear from EV is displaying far more epeen than anyone pointing out the current situation is nonsensical.

 

So no. EV/KP is not a "training" Op, nor is it teaching anyone anything. At least in a positive sense. If anything, it is making the overall playerbase less skilled than at any point in this game's history.

 

It is not - as I have seen repeatedly in this thread - a question of not wanting people to "have" 224 gear. It is rather I do not like having meaningful player development devalued to the point that the little challenging, repeatable content left in this game is perceived as unreachable by so many. I believe it's a shame that people are cramming into HM EV like sardines for gear that they dont even have the ability to make proper use out of while they will never see a single pull of HM MB or reach the 3rd floor of HM Revan.... or (gulp) touch at-level NM.

 

Because those are the places where the truly epic encounters occur.

[Nardoo]

So I should be able to play 3 or 4 unranked pvp matches and get all of the ranked, season rewards?

 

Comparing apples and oranges don't you think? Highest pvp gear is 208, obtained by doing regular war zones. Ranked pvp doesn't give improved stats and hasn't for a while.

[benficakungfu]

Think ppl want it easier not harder, at least its my opinion looking at some pugs i have done, ppl actually prefer to die on adds rather thhen killing, before garghj the lava boss, that was about as weird as it sill get for me, no thank you!

[Jaevyn]

I personally think that EV/KP HM needs to be beefed up quite a bit. I ran S&V HM about two weeks ago, people wiped left right and center on Dash'roode because they couldn't understand that the Xuvva's need to be DPSed before they destroy the generator. All were 224 geared, nearly all of them were woefully incompetent.

[LudhaninRolgge]

I personally think that EV/KP HM needs to be beefed up quite a bit. I ran S&V HM about two weeks ago, people wiped left right and center on Dash'roode because they couldn't understand that the Xuvva's need to be DPSed before they destroy the generator. All were 224 geared, nearly all of them were woefully incompetent.

 

And some still think EV and KP are entry level ops that teach people how to play.

 

We all have encountered people like that who are (almost) full 224 but have no clue what they're doing (which is not a bad thing, we all have been noobs in the beginning). And if you haven't, you probably are one of this person.

[gabigool]

Comparing apples and oranges don't you think? Highest pvp gear is 208, obtained by doing regular war zones. Ranked pvp doesn't give improved stats and hasn't for a while.

 

funny. until recently neither did NM.

 

so... yeah sorta the same thing

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I think the defensiveness of the folks who like the current situation is far more petty, selfish and shortsighted than what I am reading from the people who see it as ridiculous.

 

Personally to me, I would much prefer the playerbase had an incentive to improve their play. In this meta there is not.

 

I believe the game becomes stronger if the playerbase is better. I believe it gives the developers more options to create meaningful content if the playerbase is better. I believe the game will last longer and make more money if the playerbase is better.

 

As someone pointed out in a different thread, at peak this game has 200 viewers on Twitch. And only people sticking their fingers in their ears truly believe this game is not hemorrhaging players.

 

This is a Star Wars MMO. The current state of the game is ridiculous, the higher-ups should be embarrassed.

 

And - please - do not try to repeat the "devs know what they are doing, and they wanted players to be able to gear up". They do not know what they are doing. Period. NM loot tables at 4.0 drop cement this. The inclusion of EV/KP into the HHM rotation was a short-sighted design decision that was no rational thought was put into.

 

"Real" HM Operations are awesome. NM is the most fun those of us that do it on a regular basis have in this game. Do you really think it is healthy to further widen the chasm between 99% of the game and this particular content?

 

Make no mistake - 224 gear in NO way prepares players for anything. 224 gear is maybe "needed" for 3 encounters I can think of. Anyone who is stomping their feet demanding the right to 224 gear from EV is displaying far more epeen than anyone pointing out the current situation is nonsensical.

 

So no. EV/KP is not a "training" Op, nor is it teaching anyone anything. At least in a positive sense. If anything, it is making the overall playerbase less skilled than at any point in this game's history.

 

It is not - as I have seen repeatedly in this thread - a question of not wanting people to "have" 224 gear. It is rather I do not like having meaningful player development devalued to the point that the little challenging, repeatable content left in this game is perceived as unreachable by so many. I believe it's a shame that people are cramming into HM EV like sardines for gear that they dont even have the ability to make proper use out of while they will never see a single pull of HM MB or reach the 3rd floor of HM Revan.... or (gulp) touch at-level NM.

 

Because those are the places where the truly epic encounters occur.

 

Seriously, you and this Ludihan crack me up. Trying to say others are petty because they could care less about EV/KP being a priority mission, and Ludihans ridiculous comment about you should EARN the gear by beating the hardest bosses. Or that they should be forced to fight the hardest content to get it, to UP their game. But you seem to have no problem, whatsoever, with people "upping their game" or "earning the gear" when you are being paid 20+ million credits to just have them tag along, do nothing, and have YOU get the gear.

 

Personally, I think you are the worst type of hypocrite. Your only driving issue is that it is limiting your pool of people to extort credits from so they can get the same gear. You can have as many guildies, or friends come here and try to prop up your "opinion", but what it boils down to, is that you don't want people getting gear, unless they pay you or your guild millions to get it for them.

 

At least have the character to admit that.

[teclado]

ridiculous comment about you should EARN the gear by beating the hardest bosses.

Yeah man, it's totally a ridiculous request for the best drops to come from the hardest bosses. Totally. Honestly I can't figure out why BW doesn't give out 224 gear at level 10 and level 10 gear as NiM rewards. That would make a whole lot more sense, being that down is up, left is right, north is south, etc.

 

I think that any reasonable and impartial person would conclude that the current situation is messed up. The hardest stuff in the game drops the same or worse rewards than much easier stuff. This only makes sense in an upside-down world in which nonsense is logically sound and logic is nonsense. So if that's the game that we are going to play, somebody needs to make an announcement or something. I've been playing by the wrong rules. Or would that be the right rules?

[gabigool]

Seriously, you and this Ludihan crack me up. Trying to say others are petty because they could care less about EV/KP being a priority mission, and Ludihans ridiculous comment about you should EARN the gear by beating the hardest bosses. Or that they should be forced to fight the hardest content to get it, to UP their game. But you seem to have no problem, whatsoever, with people "upping their game" or "earning the gear" when you are being paid 20+ million credits to just have them tag along, do nothing, and have YOU get the gear.

 

Personally, I think you are the worst type of hypocrite. Your only driving issue is that it is limiting your pool of people to extort credits from so they can get the same gear. You can have as many guildies, or friends come here and try to prop up your "opinion", but what it boils down to, is that you don't want people getting gear, unless they pay you or your guild millions to get it for them.

 

At least have the character to admit that.

 

Ahh, ok here it is.

 

Bro just so you know, I'd perhaps say you have a point except I do not, nor have I ever, sold gear, done a gear run for credits (or any other compensation) or anything along those lines. So you have me confused with someone else.

 

I did once, a long time ago - help a guild do a run through Hateful Entity and I found out while standing in front of the stairs that there were players paying for a title, and I donated my share to the guild bank.

 

I have never taken a dime from anyone for helping them run through anything. I've killed every encounter in this game at level (admittedly some without NM buff) and I've done nothing but try to help others learn to do it themselves.

 

You want to know the truth? Since I've never (feel free to search) said a word about it on these forums but people that actually know me in game know that I can't stand the idea of paid runs. I think it's predatory. And sad, on both sides.

 

I actually agree with you that it's hypocritical for some, given their reasoning in this thread, to sell runs. But I respect others' rights to do/play their way, so until you tried to actually call me out for it, which I think is also sad, but also wrong, I'd said nothing. I don't force my delusional sense of moral high ground on others.

 

However even pretending in a fantasy world that I was a person who sold runs - I still do not see how my reasoning you quoted would be hypocritical. The points moot, because you're wrong about who I am and what I do, but just pointing out your logic is even wrong.

 

#gg

 

EDIT: because Curt might not like what I said about selling runs, i want to be extra precise and say I should have said "all 8-man content":p

Edited June 8, 2016 by gabigool

[Nardoo]

funny. until recently neither did NM.

 

so... yeah sorta the same thing

 

Then I am not sure what the problem is. If you want gear progression to be the same or similar for ops and pvp, then the best gear should drop from the easier hard mode ops. People pvp with out a clue about gear and objectives or play style and other than raging, there is nothing anyone can do about it. In ops you get to boot people. In pvp, you are guaranteed a reward for being in the wz, even if you go and hide in a corner for the entire game and make yourself a coffee. In ops, there are no such guarantees. You can run an op and walk away with nothing. Pvp has dailies, which don't require a win, simply to be in the wz, which will help you get BiS very quickly. As a complete newb to ops, I found my first 2 ops very disappointing as far as rewards went. Granted it was "the eyeless", but still an op. For the same time and effort in a wz, i could have gotten a few pieces of 220 equivalent gear. so basically, why shouldn't people be able to get BiS gear from easier ops,where a person doesn't have to list their gear and achievements and have done the op multiple times to gain a place in a group? That's just my perspective as a pvper who wants to start doing ops and gearing up for pve.