IcyPatch Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I am just wondering, since it appears that people want operatives to heal in groups, can I do well enough at it while not specing past the first tier into the heal tree? Obviously I am not talking about doing serious raiding, but just pug heroics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicas Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Depends how much you're stressing the healer part of 'off healer'. If you mean throwing out an occasional heal while mostly dpsing, then you don't need to take anything beyond Incisive Action. If you mean you want to be able to keep the group alive when the main healer dies, you need to at least go as far as Surgical Probe in the following build http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401Mffrzh0Rz.1 However, that doesn't leave you enough points to be a main dps. Your main two heals are Surgical Probe and Kolto Probe, not having them will reduce you to Kolto Injection spamming, which will run you out of energy within seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcyPatch Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Depends how much you're stressing the healer part of 'off healer'. If you mean throwing out an occasional heal while mostly dpsing, then you don't need to take anything beyond Incisive Action. If you mean you want to be able to keep the group alive when the main healer dies, you need to at least go as far as Surgical Probe in the following build http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401Mffrzh0Rz.1 However, that doesn't leave you enough points to be a main dps. Your main two heals are Surgical Probe and Kolto Probe, not having them will reduce you to Kolto Injection spamming, which will run you out of energy within seconds. Thank you very much for the reply. I guess I was just hoping to get my cake and eat it too, if you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicas Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Thank you very much for the reply. I guess I was just hoping to get my cake and eat it too, if you know what I mean. No worries mate, from what i've seen of ToR so far, there isn't any class that can really effectively fulfill both a support role (tank or healer) and a dps role at the same time. I really think you're **** out of luck on this one, you'll have to choose one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarty Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 If the last beta build holds true the answer is yes at lower levels, but a big no at higher levels. That said once you get to Max level with operation level gear I predict a firm maybe ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicas Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 If the last beta build holds true the answer is yes at lower levels, but a big no at higher levels. That said once you get to Max level with operation level gear I predict a firm maybe ?? Nope, even in raid gear from EV you cannot heal heroics without going far enough into the healing tree, that you're technically no longer a proper dps. What he want's just doesn't happen in the current end game. About the only flashpoint you can heal without points in your healspec, is Talon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revial Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) No worries mate, from what i've seen of ToR so far, there isn't any class that can really effectively fulfill both a support role (tank or healer) and a dps role at the same time. I really think you're **** out of luck on this one, you'll have to choose one or the other. I suppose it comes down to what you consider doing both heals and dps as. Airia, on Darth Malak, a Sith Sorc, would regularly do 200k+ damage with 200-250k+ heals even when PUGing warzones, for instance. Many players would consider both numbers to be quite decent on their own. I'm not sure how effective her build and playstyle was in an Operation environment, but I imagine she wasn't focused just on one or the other. Granted, she/he was about the only Sith Sorc I met on Darth Malak who did this practically every game she played, and she/he is a good player, but I imagine once the general playerbase has time to get used to the game...we'll be seeing more people doing similar things. Myself, I have definitely never been able to balance both heals and damage to a level where I'd say I was doing good at both, as an Operative, nor have I ever seen an Operative perform in a similar balanced fashion so effectively within a warfront. I can say, from personal experience, we do excel at one or the other though. Edited December 14, 2011 by revial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnagar Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I suppose it comes down to what you consider doing both heals and dps as. Airia, on Darth Malak, a Sith Sorc, would regularly do 200k+ damage with 200-250k+ heals even when PUGing warzones, for instance. Many players would consider both numbers to be quite decent on their own. I'm not sure how effective her build and playstyle was in an Operation environment, but I imagine she wasn't focused just on one or the other. Granted, she/he was about the only Sith Sorc I met on Darth Malak who did this practically every game she played, and she/he is a good player, but I imagine once the general playerbase has time to get used to the game...we'll be seeing more people doing similar things. Myself, I have definitely never been able to balance both heals and damage to a level where I'd say I was doing good at both, as an Operative, nor have I ever seen an Operative perform in a similar balanced fashion so effectively within a warfront. I can say, from personal experience, we do excel at one or the other though. I watched Airia's stream. Even if Operative had the powerful mid-tree synergies that Sorc has in Corruption and Madness, remember Sorcerer is ranged. Operative would be 10m or less. Considerably different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicas Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Exceptional players always buck trends, that's why they're exceptional. For your average, non top level pvp-er/world first chasing pve-er, it'll be an impossible task. Even more difficult for an operative as the above poster noted, due to needing to be in the 10m range to dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroudveil Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 also WZ are different that pve. what might work there probably doesn't in pve. p.e. as an operative you can spec up to the hot and the rest in leth/conc (better leth imo for such play) and dot/hot the whole wz. your numbers will be impressive in wz, your contribution meh, and certainly in pve you won't be able to heal heroics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khanaris Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) I think if you want to be a great healer AND a great DPS I agree your out of luck. To be effective at either your going to have to specialize. At least if your going to want to not run out of energy fast. Edited December 14, 2011 by Khanaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salamanderx Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) This spec has quite a bit of dps. Though not at the top tier its variety (AOE & single target talents) may make up for it. It gets you as far as kolto probe (HOT) for healing. It has the side benefit of lots of movement options, and many abilities are talented to retain tactical advantage or generate energy. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401Mfc0zZMI0RdzbZGbMkM.1 Edited December 14, 2011 by salamanderx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stncold Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Before 30, you will have no problem healing as a DPS spec. After 30, you can pull off it with a well-geared/competent tank. 40+, you will need to be specced for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundsy Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Before 30, you will have no problem healing as a DPS spec. After 30, you can pull off it with a well-geared/competent tank. 40+, you will need to be specced for it. I agree with this completely. I played both DPS and healing specs on my Lvl 50 Operator in Beta, and I can unequivocabily say that there is no way you can heal off spec in Hard Waypoints at 50. When leveling up, sure its doable if you concentrate and work at it. The first few lower level waypoints any class with a basic heal can be the main healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salamanderx Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) I agree with this completely. I played both DPS and healing specs on my Lvl 50 Operator in Beta, and I can unequivocabily say that there is no way you can heal off spec in Hard Waypoints at 50. When leveling up, sure its doable if you concentrate and work at it. The first few lower level waypoints any class with a basic heal can be the main healer. What about dps? If you spec up to surgical probe you can still get something like this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401MfcbdhMozZMI0RdzbZM.1 Even if you arent a top dps-er, it should be decent. Just planning my spec, not trying to get anyone riled up! Edited December 14, 2011 by salamanderx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicas Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 What about dps? If you spec up to surgical probe you can still get something like this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401MfcbdhMozZMI0RdzbZM.1 Even if you arent a top dps-er, it should be decent. Just planning my spec, not trying to get anyone riled up! You'll still be sub-par. It'll do for normal flashpoints probably, but in most heroics/nightmare modes you'll struggle to either dps or heal enough, and I very much doubt you'd even get a spot in most Operations with a spec like that unless you massively out geared it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infalliable Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Airia, on Darth Malak, a Sith Sorc, would regularly do 200k+ damage with 200-250k+ heals even when PUGing warzones, for instance. Many players would consider both numbers to be quite decent on their own. I'm not sure how effective her build and playstyle was in an Operation environment, but I imagine she wasn't focused just on one or the other. Not sure if that was the case here, but the healing numbers can be thrown off pretty heavily with some PvP stim usage. Those are instant heals for a huge amount (full health bars). It can easily inflate healing done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salamanderx Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) You'll still be sub-par. It'll do for normal flashpoints probably, but in most heroics/nightmare modes you'll struggle to either dps or heal enough, and I very much doubt you'd even get a spot in most Operations with a spec like that unless you massively out geared it. Ah well. I am mostly considering it for pvp where its nice to be able to lay down some beating so people dont think youre an easy target. Also full time healing makes you a target too, since I'll mostly do pugs, prefer to be seen as a dpser... and then pull out some heals when the s*** hits the fan. If I turn out preferring PvE with this character I'll spec one way or the other then. Edited December 14, 2011 by salamanderx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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