Ranked Objective Warzones

[SlightlySychotic]

So I see that the premade issue has reared its ugly head again. I'm not here to place blame; I firmly believe everyone has the right to play the game the way they prefer -- with friends or with random people. I've said this before and I'll say it again: the only solution that is fair and equal to everyone would be the establishment of solo and grouped ranked objective warzones. Ranked arenas clearly aren't fulfilling this need -- if they were then PUGs wouldn't be clamoring for restrictions on premades, they would be playing solo ranked where they are not an issue. And now that there is a cross faction warzone there really isn't an excuse for objective matches to be excluded from ranked.

 

What I propose are two, maybe three ranked queues. For solos, ranked and arena mixed -- arenas will spawn randomly or after a set amount of time if there aren't enough players to support an 8v8 match. For groups, I see several possibilities. The first is to have a mixed queue with groups of four being paired together to create teams of eight to fill out objective matches with arenas being generated in a similar fashion to solo. Alternatively, there can be two queues dedicated to group arenas and group 8v8s. Yes, I know 8v8s failed in the past but that was before the addition of leaderboards and seasonal rewards -- I think more people would be willing to give them a try now. Ideally, I would see four ranked queues (solo arena, solo 8v8, group arena, and group 8v8) but I understand that there is concern that too many queues dilutes the player base too much.

General would remain unchanged: a mix of solo and group players. No additional restrictions would be applied to it.

[knowmyname]

So I see that the premade issue has reared its ugly head again. I'm not here to place blame; I firmly believe everyone has the right to play the game the way they prefer -- with friends or with random people. I've said this before and I'll say it again: the only solution that is fair and equal to everyone would be the establishment of solo and grouped ranked objective warzones. Ranked arenas clearly aren't fulfilling this need -- if they were then PUGs wouldn't be clamoring for restrictions on premades, they would be playing solo ranked where they are not an issue. And now that there is a cross faction warzone there really isn't an excuse for objective matches to be excluded from ranked.

 

What I propose are two, maybe three ranked queues. For solos, ranked and arena mixed -- arenas will spawn randomly or after a set amount of time if there aren't enough players to support an 8v8 match. For groups, I see several possibilities. The first is to have a mixed queue with groups of four being paired together to create teams of eight to fill out objective matches with arenas being generated in a similar fashion to solo. Alternatively, there can be two queues dedicated to group arenas and group 8v8s. Yes, I know 8v8s failed in the past but that was before the addition of leaderboards and seasonal rewards -- I think more people would be willing to give them a try now. Ideally, I would see four ranked queues (solo arena, solo 8v8, group arena, and group 8v8) but I understand that there is concern that too many queues dilutes the player base too much.

General would remain unchanged: a mix of solo and group players. No additional restrictions would be applied to it.

 

There isn't a pre made problem. These players saying premades ruin war zones don't have friends. There's your problem.

This isn't a solo game, no matter what bw devs do to pve content. War zone gameplay is multiplayer. You're on a team. Group up, get good, join voice comms and queue up.

 

Bads will always blame premades for their own fails.

 

 

8vs8 ranked didn't work. It was removed and will not return. Move along, nothing to see here.

[-Bob-]

So I see that the premade issue has reared its ugly head again. I'm not here to place blame; I firmly believe everyone has the right to play the game the way they prefer -- with friends or with random people. I've said this before and I'll say it again: the only solution that is fair and equal to everyone would be the establishment of solo and grouped ranked objective warzones. Ranked arenas clearly aren't fulfilling this need -- if they were then PUGs wouldn't be clamoring for restrictions on premades, they would be playing solo ranked where they are not an issue. And now that there is a cross faction warzone there really isn't an excuse for objective matches to be excluded from ranked.

 

What I propose are two, maybe three ranked queues. For solos, ranked and arena mixed -- arenas will spawn randomly or after a set amount of time if there aren't enough players to support an 8v8 match. For groups, I see several possibilities. The first is to have a mixed queue with groups of four being paired together to create teams of eight to fill out objective matches with arenas being generated in a similar fashion to solo. Alternatively, there can be two queues dedicated to group arenas and group 8v8s. Yes, I know 8v8s failed in the past but that was before the addition of leaderboards and seasonal rewards -- I think more people would be willing to give them a try now. Ideally, I would see four ranked queues (solo arena, solo 8v8, group arena, and group 8v8) but I understand that there is concern that too many queues dilutes the player base too much.

General would remain unchanged: a mix of solo and group players. No additional restrictions would be applied to it.

 

WHAAAA it's unfair!

you should probably go back to nintendo Super Mario Bros, this isn't the format for you. People get together, people have fun, it's what it's about. Do you think couples should be banned from movie theaters because they can kiss and make you feel awkward?

[Greezt]

Do you think couples should be banned from movie theaters because they can kiss and make you feel awkward?

 

How did no one ever think of this??

[JouerTue]

having ranked 8v8 didn't stop premades in regs. do you understand that the players grouping, have not 100% interest in partecipating in ranked? grouping yourself is the only solution, or git gud and carry matches, or take the loss, if you are a decent player on a decent class you will never get globalled.

[Opaknack]

1. Cross server rated (continental)

Take a virtual server and copy there all rated teams in queue when they get an invite.

 

 

2. 8vs8 rated

It was the best rated ever and much more funny as all the stupid 4vs4 sudden death arena. That's also the reason because many premades like to play normal PvP. It simply more fun. For example when i like to play football then i want play football and not only field goal kicks, or only penalty kicks in soccer.

 

But Bioware doesn't get it.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Opaknack

[SlightlySychotic]

having ranked 8v8 didn't stop premades in regs. do you understand that the players grouping, have not 100% interest in partecipating in ranked? grouping yourself is the only solution, or git gud and carry matches, or take the loss, if you are a decent player on a decent class you will never get globalled.

 

Then they can stay in regs. Solo players who prefer objective warzones would have a ranked option to pursue. That is what I want at the end of the day. More than anything, more than premades, I'm sick and tired or arenas being the only option for ranked and I don't think I'm the only person who feels that way. I see people complaining about premades and I know that this solution helps us both.

[Floplag]

We do not have the bodies for separation of queues, to even suggest it is to understand your queue times will skyrocket.

The rest is nonsensical gibberish on both sides that will never be resolved.

pro premades says others have no friends, anti premades says others have no skills... its all BS.

Doesnt matter anyway, its in the game... deal with it. Either group up yourself or accept the consequences

[SlightlySychotic]

We do not have the bodies for separation of queues, to even suggest it is to understand your queue times will skyrocket.

The rest is nonsensical gibberish on both sides that will never be resolved.

pro premades says others have no friends, anti premades says others have no skills... its all BS.

Doesnt matter anyway, its in the game... deal with it. Either group up yourself or accept the consequences

 

While I'm not sure about groups, I'm quite confident there are enough solo players to populate a solo queue. I'm sure there are a lot of players who max out their gear and don't want to (or can't) play ranked arenas or who stop queuing when they realize that conditions are "unfavorable." Now that there's a cross-faction war zone (and assuming new and existing WZs get similar treatment) faction isn't really an excuse anymore either.

 

As for regs, I'm sure there will always be enough players looking to, do dailies, conquest, or complete the companion quests to keep that queue popping.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Do you think couples should be banned from movie theaters because they can kiss and make you feel awkward?

 

Best reply here EVAR.

[limenutpen]

1. Cross server rated (continental)

Take a virtual server and copy there all rated teams in queue when they get an invite.

 

 

2. 8vs8 rated

It was the best rated ever and much more funny as all the stupid 4vs4 sudden death arena. That's also the reason because many premades like to play normal PvP. It simply more fun. For example when i like to play football then i want play football and not only field goal kicks, or only penalty kicks in soccer.

 

But Bioware doesn't get it.

 

8vs8 was the best time in PvP for this game. Call it long pre-season but it was so much more fun then stupid arenas. BW should also split WZ with Arena ques, change the small daily to an Arena daily and forbid premades in Arena (non-ranked que).

I cannot get it why PvE has so much game modes dailies at all levels and we have just one in all level.

 

BW with a little change here and there you could make your PvP much more attractive. But in last years u did the opposite.

[Jadescythe]

They can't get reg warzone queues populated on all servers, much less the ranked ones. What do you think will be the outcome of 3 ranked queues?

[Devilk]

I always get a chuckle when people cry about people playing with their friends.

[limenutpen]

They can't get reg warzone queues populated on all servers, much less the ranked ones. What do you think will be the outcome of 3 ranked queues?

 

Lets start by splitting the two aspects we have a PvP in regs; objective based WZ and Arenas. For ranked we think about it later.

 

They should try ranked PvP events with ranked WZ for a week. If they did that I am sure many players will return for it.

Kinda when the first Illum Gree event launched, many players res-subbed cause of it.

[SlightlySychotic]

I always get a chuckle when people cry about people playing with their friends.

 

That's why I advocate this solution. People have the right to play with their friends; I think the devs would be crazy to deliberately impede that. However, I also believe that people have the right to solo -- the devs would be just as crazy if they removed all solo capability from PvP and forced people to play in organized groups. However, long term those groups are just not compatible with each other: playing in a group offers certain advantages and PUG players are going to be frustrated by that. Saying solos should just deal with it or find a group is like telling someone who plays an underpowered class that they should just reroll. At the same time, putting limits on groups is a bit like preventing people who play an OP class from queuing.

 

The beauty of this solution is that it does not favor or penalize: it accommodates. Truth be told, this is the system we need in place regardless. Everyone, regardless of play style or class, should eventually move on to ranked but the numbers don't support that and it's all to obvious than arenas are the culprit. This is a change that's been a long time coming. The fact that it helps resolve tensions between group and solo players is just one of several benefits.

[Hoppinswtor]

This is a complete nonissue. The queues are fine. I went through my share of spawn camping before I got good and got in groups. Hell, a lot of premades even ignore objectives. And there's typically four pugs with any premade... Edited April 23, 2016 by Hoppinswtor

[foxmob]

players saying premades ruin war zones don't have friends. There's your problem

that you actually believe that drivel is more disconcerting to me than the ppl complaining about premades. it's a douche bag way of dismissing players who prefer to go solo -- of which there are very many, if not an actual majority.

 

or let me put it another way, your statement that solo isn't the game or such players have no friends is MORE asinine than the "premade losers" drivel that spews out of bobafatter's mouth on this board.

Edited April 23, 2016 by foxmob

[SlightlySychotic]

that you actually believe that drivel is more disconcerting to me than the ppl complaining about premades. it's a douche bag way of dismissing players who prefer to go solo -- of which there are very many, if not an actual majority.

 

or let me put it another way, your statement that solo isn't the game or such players have no friends is MORE asinine than the "premade losers" drivel that spews out of bobafatter's mouth on this board.

 

It's reactionary. There's a tendency for the pro-solo argument to come off as advocating the removal of premades from general. I reiterate: that is morally, ethically, and objectively wrong; people have the right the game with PUGs or with friends, the same way they have a right to play the game as whatever class they choose. Unfortunately, people also have a tendency to react emotionally, in this case flippant and dismissive. That, in turn, comes off as pro-group players saying that solo players are playing the game wrong and should just find a group.

[TonyDragonflame]

Solo queue cross faction ranked warzones will be awesome.

 

I love swtor for objective-based pvp warzones, where all classes can shine, and solo que ranked will be really what all need.

[Jadescythe]

That's why I advocate this solution. People have the right to play with their friends; I think the devs would be crazy to deliberately impede that. However, I also believe that people have the right to solo -- the devs would be just as crazy if they removed all solo capability from PvP and forced people to play in organized groups. However, long term those groups are just not compatible with each other: playing in a group offers certain advantages and PUG players are going to be frustrated by that. Saying solos should just deal with it or find a group is like telling someone who plays an underpowered class that they should just reroll. At the same time, putting limits on groups is a bit like preventing people who play an OP class from queuing.

 

The beauty of this solution is that it does not favor or penalize: it accommodates. Truth be told, this is the system we need in place regardless. Everyone, regardless of play style or class, should eventually move on to ranked but the numbers don't support that and it's all to obvious than arenas are the culprit. This is a change that's been a long time coming. The fact that it helps resolve tensions between group and solo players is just one of several benefits.

 

For the record, players playing underpowered classes SHOULD reroll if they are only playing to perform well. If you are just playing for fun, then no class is so weak that you can't participate and even do well in regs.

 

As for splitting queues, it just isn't in the cards for SWTOR right now. Not enough population and not enough support form the devs to make it a viable option. The only effect it will have is to lengthen queue times substantially, especially on servers with already low populations and off-peak times for populated servers. You could look to try and match similar groups together, but even that may be a futile effort for many servers without cross faction in all game modes.

 

The advantage to the current system is that anyone can queue and get in a game quickly. Any changes you make will have an impact on the queue population and overall queue times. Many will say they are fine with increasing queues by 5 minutes to get a better game. But some players only have time for 1-2 games when they log in. A queue increase of 5 minutes could eliminate their ability to play at all or drastically reduce the amount of games they can join each session.

[AlrikFassbauer]

For the record, players playing underpowered classes SHOULD reroll if they are only playing to perform well.

 

Can you explain what you mean with this ? I have problems understanding this sentence.

[Jadescythe]

Can you explain what you mean with this ? I have problems understanding this sentence.

 

If you only care about winning and you are playing a Merc (or any poorly performing class), you should reroll to another class. Continuing to play the class and not winning does not help achieve your goal. Anyone who complains about "FOTM rerollers" is an idiot, pretty much. In every competitive game, players trend towards what is strong and MMO PvP is no exception.

 

If you enjoy playing the class and care more about having fun than winning, then there is no need to change. Every class performs well enough to be fun in regs, even if you will have a slightly lower winrate.

[SlightlySychotic]

For the record, players playing underpowered classes SHOULD reroll if they are only playing to perform well. If you are just playing for fun, then no class is so weak that you can't participate and even do well in regs.

 

As for splitting queues, it just isn't in the cards for SWTOR right now. Not enough population and not enough support form the devs to make it a viable option. The only effect it will have is to lengthen queue times substantially, especially on servers with already low populations and off-peak times for populated servers. You could look to try and match similar groups together, but even that may be a futile effort for many servers without cross faction in all game modes.

 

The advantage to the current system is that anyone can queue and get in a game quickly. Any changes you make will have an impact on the queue population and overall queue times. Many will say they are fine with increasing queues by 5 minutes to get a better game. But some players only have time for 1-2 games when they log in. A queue increase of 5 minutes could eliminate their ability to play at all or drastically reduce the amount of games they can join each session.

 

I'm sorry but I cannot accept either of those points.

 

Concerning classes this is not a MOBA or a fighter or an FPS: if you pick a weak character you cannot just reroll the next game and pick up where you left off with a new character. Each character at endgame represents a commitment of dozens if not hundreds of hours. You cannot tell someone who has put that much work into their character that their class is inappropriate for endgame content and they need to start over from scratch. It's not just incompetent design it's ethically wrong.

 

As for population, first of all on Shadowlands I see enough random names in regs to convince me that there are enough players to support objective solo ranked -- and we are not the most populated server. Maybe not at all hours of the day but certainly at prime time and that's really what matters. Second, let's not pretend for a minute that ranked arenas are popping regularly at all hours of the day. Even during weekend prime time on Shadowlands pops can run between five to ten minutes, especially now that interest has cooled down. Between people who don't like arenas and those who can't compete, there simply isn't enough interest in arenas to maintain viability. Third, I'm still proposing a mixed queue. While I would love to shove arenas off into their own queue and never have to deal with them again I understand they serve a purpose: to create matches when there aren't enough players to create 8v8s. Of course, that's also their function in the general queue and I'm optimistic that objective ranked will draw in enough people to make it a nonissue.

[Jadescythe]

I'm sorry but I cannot accept either of those points.

 

Concerning classes this is not a MOBA or a fighter or an FPS: if you pick a weak character you cannot just reroll the next game and pick up where you left off with a new character. Each character at endgame represents a commitment of dozens if not hundreds of hours. You cannot tell someone who has put that much work into their character that their class is inappropriate for endgame content and they need to start over from scratch. It's not just incompetent design it's ethically wrong.

 

As for population, first of all on Shadowlands I see enough random names in regs to convince me that there are enough players to support objective solo ranked -- and we are not the most populated server. Maybe not at all hours of the day but certainly at prime time and that's really what matters. Second, let's not pretend for a minute that ranked arenas are popping regularly at all hours of the day. Even during weekend prime time on Shadowlands pops can run between five to ten minutes, especially now that interest has cooled down. Between people who don't like arenas and those who can't compete, there simply isn't enough interest in arenas to maintain viability. Third, I'm still proposing a mixed queue. While I would love to shove arenas off into their own queue and never have to deal with them again I understand they serve a purpose: to create matches when there aren't enough players to create 8v8s. Of course, that's also their function in the general queue and I'm optimistic that objective ranked will draw in enough people to make it a nonissue.

 

I don't know that I can agree with either of your points here either.

 

The "Commitment" is leveling a character to 65, pvping enough for gear, and augmenting gear. For anyone concerned with their viability in end game PvP, that 25-30 hours isn't much of an investment. Not to mention the game is 4 years old and anyone interested in PvP has multiple max level alts at this point anyway. If you really don't have the time, buy an insta 60 with cash or credits and you can be PvP ready in 10-15 hours with minimum 204s.

 

BW is responsible for balancing classes, but if you think there will ever be a time where 1-2 aren't in the gutter, you're delusional. You will always have to be prepared to swap to something else if you are wanting to be at the top of your game. In fact, the flexibility to perform on multiple classes is what makes a good PvPer overall.

 

Let's be honest, solo queue is already a trainwreck. People only participate because it's the only ranked available 99% of the time. Double the team size and your individual contribution may as well not even matter for ranked warzones. There is no way you will be able to carry 7 other players and so your rank won't even be your own. If you want games to be matched based on elo, just add a hidden ranking to regs to try and improve the matches. There is no way solo ranked warzones would be even slightly competitive.

[Floplag]

If you only care about winning and you are playing a Merc (or any poorly performing class), you should reroll to another class. Continuing to play the class and not winning does not help achieve your goal. Anyone who complains about "FOTM rerollers" is an idiot, pretty much. In every competitive game, players trend towards what is strong and MMO PvP is no exception.

 

If you enjoy playing the class and care more about having fun than winning, then there is no need to change. Every class performs well enough to be fun in regs, even if you will have a slightly lower winrate.

 

I do not intend to offend you with this, but it likely will... I find this view actually offensive and a little juvenile.

 

This is the typical mentality i see of most gamers today. Whatever the most OP class is they all run to it to gain some false sense of achievement as though anything achieved on those classes has any real meaning. You are supposed to win playing those classes, doing do only proves you have half a brain.

 

There are 10 times as many Sorcs in the top ratings then Mercs, does that mean all those players are better players than the Mercs? I guarantee thats not true. Have they gotten better results, yes, they have, as well they should have due to the class and the fact that it is far easier to do so. It takes far more skill to achieve the same on lesser powered classes. I have FAR more respect for those who are competitive on lesser classes than i do those who go easy mode.

 

Telling me in an idiot for not re-rolling Sorc? I have one, ive played it, it bored me... its was mindlessly easy. i would outdo other classes in lesser gear while playing with myself and watching re-runs of Gilligan's island all at the same time. Instead of telling me im an idiot perhaps you should ask yourself why you needed that to achieve what you did.

 

If all you care about is maximizing your wins, then you go FOTM, you roll premades, and you eventually realize all you did is what you were set up to do. Grats, i guess.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Floplag