Why are people still mad about no new raids?

[Tsetso]

I don't understand why people wouldn't[/i

The most you've managed to do is imply, somewhat obliquely, that older ops shouldn't be hard because they shouldn't be giving out top-end gear. Which is pure ends-justify-the-means elitism. They're end-game content, they can give out end-game gear. (And it's not that they actually ARE giving out guaranteed endgame gear; going through an Op gets you a chance at endgame gear - which is a crappy artificial-scarcity method to ensure grinding, IMO.)

 

Just ignore him - judging from all his posts he's an obvious troll.

[IanArgent]

Of course they wouldn't want to do it.

 

1) New players tend to catch up with the majority, especially group content since it would be much easier to find groups. What kind of reward? If they can get higher tier with new ops, why would they stay at old ones? If the old ones drop the same gear as the new ops, then the developers are pretty much out of their mind. If you MUST do this ops to catch up, that is going to drive off new players. These are group content, you can't do it without a group and how many people are doing it decide how easy it is to find a group.

 

2) These ops were NOT targeted for the majority during its release, they were targeted for elite raiders, which already a small percent of the playerbase, after they've moved on to new ones, the content would be pretty much dead if nothing had changed to its difficulty. why is it so hard for you to understand it? Ops are GROUP CONTENT, you can't do it simply because of your own interest, you need a certain amount of people to get interested to it so you could find groups. THIS is also why modern players are less and less interested in such content. They don't want to spend so much effort on finding group and practice with the team, even set time schedule for raid, not anymore.

 

This is an argument against ANY new raids, you know. Which isn't helping your cause. Also, except for the NiM modes (which they've explicitly said they're not doing any more), there's no "only for elite raiders" content.

[Slowpokeking]

This is an argument against ANY new raids, you know. Which isn't helping your cause. Also, except for the NiM modes (which they've explicitly said they're not doing any more), there's no "only for elite raiders" content.

 

New raids would surely drop top tier gear and attract players to try it. Old content? No. They are bored of most of them, only doing the easiest for gear right now.

 

How is Rav and Tos HM? How many guilds have cleared it during 3.0? Less than 5%.

 

And yes, all raids are suffering from some of the problems I'm talking about. Overall, people are not that interested in such content anymore, which is why MMO is dwindling and Bioware is switching focus.

[IanArgent]

New raids would surely drop top tier gear and attract players to try it. Old content? No. They are bored of most of them, only doing the easiest for gear right now.

 

How is Rav and Tos HM? How many guilds have cleared it during 3.0? Less than 5%.

 

And yes, all raids are suffering from some of the problems I'm talking about. Overall, people are not that interested in such content anymore, which is why MMO is dwindling and Bioware is switching focus.

 

For myself, having done allegedly group content when vastly overeleveled; I'd rather do it at-level, even if the rewards are the usual ash and trash of mob drops. I'd rather they improve the groupfinder experience than downrate the existing raids. Because eventually all the "leet raiders" will be gone

[Slowpokeking]

For myself, having done allegedly group content when vastly overeleveled; I'd rather do it at-level, even if the rewards are the usual ash and trash of mob drops. I'd rather they improve the groupfinder experience than downrate the existing raids. Because eventually all the "leet raiders" will be gone

 

It doesn't matter about how you think of it, few people would like to form a full group for some challenging ops which drops garbage gear and no mount/decor.

 

EV/KP HM got very easy mechanic and is not "fun" to run, but tons of people are doing them because of what? Gear+easy mech. If you remove the gear they are going to become dead content.

[IanArgent]

It doesn't matter about how you think of it, few people would like to form a full group for some challenging ops which drops garbage gear and no mount/decor.

 

EV/KP HM got very easy mechanic and is not "fun" to run, but tons of people are doing them because of what? Gear+easy mech. If you remove the gear they are going to become dead content.

 

And yet, there are groups forming for every highlighted op (and a few non-highlighted ones) every night. You're committing MCB's error, that your own limited experience is exemplary of a part of the game being dead

[Slowpokeking]

More importantly, this is what ops' problem lies at.

 

I want to run an ops, but I can't do it alone, I need another 7 ppl of certain roles who got the same interest as me to get it going. See the problem here?

[Slowpokeking]

And yet, there are groups forming for every highlighted op (and a few non-highlighted ones) every night. You're committing MCB's error, that your own limited experience is exemplary of a part of the game being dead

 

Because they drop top tier gear at that time. Compare to the EV/KP HM, it's much more difficult to find a non-hightlighted HM of EC/SNV/DF/DP/RAV/TOS.

 

See the problem here? It's not how I THINK about, I need a group to do it.

[Slowpokeking]

As for solo content, no matter how hard it is, whenever I want to do it, I can do it. I don't have to spend time to find group, I don't need to rely on others at all, if others want to join it's ok as well. THIS is why people are getting less interested in raid, THIS is why MOB is beating MMO. Edited April 17, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[IanArgent]

More importantly, this is what ops' problem lies at.

 

I want to run an ops, but I can't do it alone, I need another 7 ppl of certain roles who got the same interest as me to get it going. See the problem here?

 

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do see the issue. The solution is to change the group-content paradigm. I agree that we do need more, new, PvE group content. I disagree strongly that the need means we should derate the existing group content. At most, they might consider "cutting down" the existing ops to Flashpoint size. But what we need is short playtime group content that can be advanced at individual pace. Instead of a "monolithic" operation where you have to clear 3 bosses, an optional bonus boss, and however much ash and trash stands between them, taking an hour or more of playtime and voice comms coordination, something structured so that you jump into an ad-hoc group that doesn't require tactical trinity (give some kind of mechanic so that off-tanks and off-heals can "up their game" in that role to cover for a dedicated tank, instead of just adding Kolto stations and being done); play for 15 minutes or so, and come back to the task chain later. Basically, the group PvE equivalent of the unranked PvP queue. Make it in both 4-man and 8-man flavors. Hell, recycle existing boss mechanics to ease development. Something with a playlength between a World boss/instance boss and a full-up raid or op. Heck, more world bosses. And rewards every time. Not a roll on a loot table, guaranteed rewards. They don't necessarily have to be ops-level rewards, but something for your time other than a lottery ticket and some cash. I can get cash anywhere, usually at a better payout for time invested. Rare drops should be cosmetic, not mechanical.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

If you don't raid then you just don't know.

[Uruare]

If I were a game developer for this mmo, I wouldn't be interested in trying to focus on 8/16 man content either.

 

I'd focus on the solo experience, though I'd offer more story variation than bioware is currently doing, and I'd make or much easier to do all of it with one to a whole raid group's worth of other people.

 

I'd make it all scale to how many people were in the group, at least somewhat reasonably. Full raids wouldn't find everything super challenging, but the gear drops would be 208 level off bosses and various decorations would only drop for groups of 4+.

 

I'd make FP's two person affairs at minimum, and make them scale as well, but include all sorts of meta challenges for each. Speed clears with various specific group sizes, odd and difficult objective targets - that sort of thing.

 

The content itself could be easy enough to bash through of you just want to go from beginning to end and very the default goodies, but if you want the 'Another Happy Landing' feat, you and at least one other person better kill <Boss> during its brief airborne time using <Attack>.

 

I'd also make things line the upcoming Eternal Championship allow for pvp dueling. It wouldn't grant rewards one could easily win trade to get, but there'd be all sorts of hidden achievements and a few titles thrown in for doing it and accidentally stumbling upon them.

 

Things like 'kill an opponent with an attack that deals exactly 7777 damage' type of things. Things nobody could actually game or even specifically affect their chances of getting.

 

Others would be more deterministic, but still hidden, such as the hidden achievement for losing 100 matches granting the title 'Deadeye' that can go in front of your name.

 

Titles, decor and achievement points aren't enough, of course.

 

I'd make all the ops scale all the way down to 2+, though they'd have no healing stations or droid second companions.

 

You, one other person and your companions could attempt ops tuned to HM FP style of difficulty, and at the beginning of each boss fight, there'd be a clicky for you to interact with and choose your difficulty for the boss fight ahead.

 

Story Mode would be default normal mode, rewarding 208 grade gear drops with the lowest tier of set bonus where applicable.

 

Hard Mode bosses would have more hp, hit harder and sometimes have a new mechanic to additionally deal with, but would grant 216 grade gear with better set bonuses where applicable.

 

Nightmare Mode bosses would have even more hp, new mechanics, possibly environmental hazards and would basically be impossible for duos that weren't on their A game and managing their companions excellently to boot.

 

NM bosses would drop 220 grade gear with almost top set bonuses.

 

224 gear with top tier set bonuses would still be in the game, but you'd have to complete achievements for each piece. Some of those achievements would require completing other achievements against NM ops bosses, some would require hitting some very difficult crafting challenges, yet others would require certain very difficult pvp achievements.

 

224 gear would be special like no other gear though. In pvp zones and wz's, it would grant Expertise while retaining it's admirable set bonuses and without its stat budget being lowered to accommodate.

 

But the only way to get 224 gear would be to do a lot of the top of everything in the game. Very few souls would have more than a few pieces, and having the whole set would be one of the most difficult things to do in the entire game, demonstrating unequivocally that you've done virtually everything there is to do at the highest levels attainable.

 

It wouldn't be dramatically more powerful than 220 gear. The set bonuses would be modestly better. A mere 5% numerical superiority, as we wouldn't want it to be any sort of minimum requirement. That's be setting the bar much too high.

 

But it would be the only gear in the game that was effectively PvE and PvP gear both, and it's shells would be unique in that you could select their coloration from a primary and secondary pallette wheel.

 

For free. No dye modules required for those pieces anymore.

 

But that's all just me daydreaming.

[DrewFromPhilly]

I think you're getting into the discussion surrounding BW's marketing of SWTOR pre-release among gaming journalists, who looked at BW's description of an "mmo with story" and wondered whether that made any sense, or would be feasible. At the time it was a great discussion with interesting points on both sides.

 

But that was four years ago, and BW has for better or worse a playerbase of PvP and PvE focused players who play this MMO in the traditional sense as one would expect from other MMOs. Obviously there are players who are only interested in leveling through the lvl 1-50 experience with alts on both sides, and obviously in kotfe and so forth. But for BW to say that after four years they are now focusing on story and by their own statements placing the traditional MMO aspects of the game on the backburner - those players who have been here for four years are going to be wondering wth is happening. Why are they doing this now? What are they trying to accomplish? And, honestly, considering how slow operations were being released before when they were supposedly a focus - what does this mean for the future and is it worth it to stay subscribed if you are a progression/operation focused player?

 

To me, the bigger question is, why are people apparently ok with BioWare turning this into a single player RPG with a subscription fee? If I wanted to play a single player rpg i would go play fallout or inquisition or something, but this is an MMO and it's perfectly reasonable of the playerbase to expect MMO content from an MMO they are subscribed too

[Blackardin]

But why so few people are doing them other than EV and KP when there is no priority? This will get even worse if there is new ops and higher tier gears.

 

Being Hardmode doesn't mean it should always stay hard after 4 years, understand this.

 

Hard mode is not hard. It is what we used to call normal. All one has to do is to pay attention to, and learn the mechanics (which are the essence of a raid). The problem is that most pugs want to just go in and steam-roll for gear; that most pugs will have players that do not know the fights. EV and KP are the most noted raids that pretty much everyone knows, and they are super easy.

 

Nothing wrong with the way puggers want to go about it. For them there is story mode. For raiders there is hard, and nightmare. Everyone has a level of raid that they can participate in.

 

The problem is, as has been stated, that there are no new raids.

[Blackardin]

If I were a game developer for this mmo, I wouldn't be interested in trying to focus on 8/16 man content either.

 

 

Four, eight, and sixteen man content would work for all levels of play. No need to get rid of the guild level raiding. Since I've come back I've noticed that guild are getting fat with players because there are reasons to join a guild now. For a large segment of the population, it is that guild, voice chat, the friendships, raiding together that keeps those guilds in the game.

 

Four man would cater to the story players, the big raids for guilds and big raid puggers...but they need new raids right along with content. One must seek the largest demographic in order to realize the greatest participation and revenue.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Blackardin

[IanArgent]

Four man would cater to the story players, the big raids for guilds and big raid puggers...but they need new raids right along with content. One must seek the largest demographic in order to realize the greatest participate and revenue.

 

They need group content. That they need classic-style rigid tactical-trinity-combat-team groups doing hour+ missions for a chance at a reward token (Ops/FPs) does not follow. For one thing, the group-content-playing population does not break down to 1/2 DPS, 1/4 Tank, and 1/4 Heal, or Tactical Flashpoints would not have been necessary.

[Slowpokeking]

Hard mode is not hard. It is what we used to call normal. All one has to do is to pay attention to, and learn the mechanics (which are the essence of a raid). The problem is that most pugs want to just go in and steam-roll for gear; that most pugs will have players that do not know the fights. EV and KP are the most noted raids that pretty much everyone knows, and they are super easy.

 

Nothing wrong with the way puggers want to go about it. For them there is story mode. For raiders there is hard, and nightmare. Everyone has a level of raid that they can participate in.

 

The problem is, as has been stated, that there are no new raids.

But you can't let others do what they need to do. Raiders will move on once they beat one content many times and get bored.

[IanArgent]

But you can't let others do what they need to do. Raiders will move on once they beat one content many times and get bored.

 

Veteran Players will move on once they beat one (repeatable) content many times and get bored. What makes raiders different that they need to be catered to especially? PArticularly since all the available evidence suggests raiders are a minority of the game's population.

[Slowpokeking]

Veteran Players will move on once they beat one (repeatable) content many times and get bored. What makes raiders different that they need to be catered to especially? PArticularly since all the available evidence suggests raiders are a minority of the game's population.

 

But then the content need to be rescaled for other people.

 

They are minority because modern players don't want to spend so much effort to form a group anymore. Group content should encourage people to group up, not force people to.

[IanArgent]

But then the content need to be rescaled for other people.

 

They are minority because modern players don't want to spend so much effort to form a group anymore. Group content should encourage people to group up, not force people to.

 

Agreed - but downscaling content won't do that; once downscaled beyond about 5-7 levels, there's no reason to group but switches that must be triggered simultaneously.

[Slowpokeking]

Agreed - but downscaling content won't do that; once downscaled beyond about 5-7 levels, there's no reason to group but switches that must be triggered simultaneously.

 

There will be more people willing to do those once-hard ops because it becomes a lot easier than now.

[IanArgent]

There will be more people willing to do those once-hard ops because it becomes a lot easier than now.

 

Are they running story mode now? OR do you want "hard mode" to be easier than the current Story Mode (which is plenty easy).

[benmas]

But then the content need to be rescaled for other people.

 

They are minority because modern players don't want to spend so much effort to form a group anymore. Group content should encourage people to group up, not force people to.

 

who these modern players you speak of?

did we have a survey and i didn't get the memo?

 

i have no problem making a group.

just say what you need and bam group made time to raid

[IanArgent]

who these modern players you speak of?

did we have a survey and i didn't get the memo?

 

i have no problem making a group.

just say what you need and bam group made time to raid

 

He seems to think that new players will start the game as burned out on the old content as he is.

[Pietrastor]

who these modern players you speak of?

did we have a survey and i didn't get the memo?

Your survey is the modern game industry where instant lobby, co-op,drop-in droup-out etc. dominate what people play online. The majority prefers that over hours-long people-management that is MMO raiding.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Pietrastor