if you just gonna leave the flashpoint cause of non spacebarers

[LordGermanicuss]

Well, you do keep talking about APAC players on English US servers who don't speak English as their first language, and keep ignoring that there are three servers with English as official language where quite possibly the majority of the players don't speak English as their first language. Europe is an actual place that exists, you know.

 

ENGLISH isn't the official language on those servers, those are the only servers available to those in APAC. There are many players outside of Europe and the US that play and PAY for the game.

[Newyankalt]

Just a quick thing regarding these APAC players you keep bringing up and their poor knowledge of the English language.. Isn't it equally 'selfish' and self involved of them to expect more leniency (ie: getting a free pass on not skipping) because they don't speak the language that well? I mean they're actively choosing to play a mostly English game and frequent American servers, whether through a lack of alternatives or otherwise. The least they could do for both themselves and others around them, is pick up on the basics of said language. They're foreign but they're not dumb. Just as we're evidently expected to be considerate of them, they in turn could be considerate of us and familiarize themselves with basic English.

 

That's a good point, there's no reason for people who don't speak any English to be joining groups where communication may be required. PVP/ Raids. They should at least know the basics or not play at all.

[Newyankalt]

ENGLISH isn't the official language on those servers, those are the only servers available to those in APAC. There are many players outside of Europe and the US that play and PAY for the game.

 

On North American servers English is pretty much the official language, on Europeans servers it's more diverse but you rarely see people not speaking English on Harbinger for example.

 

Either way the servers and the core of the game is offered in English/ French/ German so you should at least know the basics of one of those languages and be on the appropriate server if you're going to queue for any type of group content.

[Seireeni]

ENGLISH isn't the official language on those servers, those are the only servers available to those in APAC. There are many players outside of Europe and the US that play and PAY for the game.

 

Yeah? Unless your first language is French or German, those English servers are the only option for European players, no matter their first language. You show me ten APAC players that don't speak English and I'll show you ten Russian players that don't speak English. You blame Americans for only looking at things from the American perspective, while only looking at things from an APAC player's perspective. A bit hypocritical, isn't it?

[LordGermanicuss]

Just a quick thing regarding these APAC players you keep bringing up and their poor knowledge of the English language.. Isn't it equally 'selfish' and self involved of them to expect more leniency (ie: getting a free pass on not skipping) because they don't speak the language that well? I mean they're actively choosing to play a mostly English game and frequent American servers, whether through a lack of alternatives or otherwise. The least they could do for both themselves and others around them, is pick up on the basics of said language. They're foreign but they're not dumb. Just as we're evidently expected to be considerate of them, they in turn could be considerate of us and familiarize themselves with basic English.

 

They don't and have never chosen to play on US servers, there just is no other choice at this point, they pay for the games maintenance and development the same as we do. People can bark and get as angry as they want at those players, but they will not understand what you're saying so it doesn't matter unless said selfish players kick/ignore them which just drives off the paying player base of this game leading to it's eventual demise being much sooner. If they don't understand what you're saying nor why, how can they be being selfish about it? I understand the ideal circumstances, but that's not what we have, we have what we have and we can CHOOSE to either accommodate those players or drive them away, making the player base smaller and helping the game to it's demise.

 

As for learning english, are you willing to pay for their Rosetta Stone or classes for that? it's not taught in a majority of foreign schools, it is in some, but not most, so it being an expectation is quite a lot. Them paying for the game is quite expensive for many. what is $18 US for you is $632B for us, and there's 2 of us, the hourly rate is $225B if you're lucky and but don't have a higher degree. Be happy about that for you, it's not so easy for others.

[Newyankalt]

They don't and have never chosen to play on US servers, there just is no other choice at this point, they pay for the games maintenance and development the same as we do. People can bark and get as angry as they want at those players, but they will not understand what you're saying so it doesn't matter unless said selfish players kick/ignore them which just drives off the paying player base of this game leading to it's eventual demise being much sooner. If they don't understand what you're saying nor why, how can they be being selfish about it? I understand the ideal circumstances, but that's not what we have, we have what we have and we can CHOOSE to either accommodate those players or drive them away, making the player base smaller and helping the game to it's demise.

 

As for learning english, are you willing to pay for their Rosetta Stone or classes for that? it's not taught in a majority of foreign schools, it is in some, but not most, so it being an expectation is quite a lot. Them paying for the game is quite expensive for many. what is $18 US for you is $632B for us, and there's 2 of us, the hourly rate is $225B if you're lucky and but don't have a higher degree. Be happy about that for you, it's not so easy for others.

You say the people who will kick them are selfish however I'd say it's justified to kick someone in many circumstances who isn't communicating with the group at all... Not able to understand tactics or give calls in PVP.

[LordGermanicuss]

Like I said earlier - "never done this flashpoint" != "not ready for Hard Mode." Someone could quite easily be GtG for HM-level challenge in gear and "read up" on the FP via Dulfy or wherever, and still want to see the cutscenes for the first time because SM isn't a challenge. OTOH, it is HM, they should go with the majority there.

 

Plenty of people gear up before attempting HMs. Some HM's require far diff gear than others, vastly different from BT to BH in what's needed gear wise. The movies are included in all versions for a reason, so that those that haven't seen them, get to see them. If they don't speak the same language, how do you expect them to go with the "majority"? btw which is a false point because as it is, the HM FP's have the movies included for PAYING CUSTOMERS to enjoy at their leisure.

[LordGermanicuss]

Stop generalizing, I doubt you even have that much experience dealing with Americans in person or Europeans for that matter...

 

The Internet is not a place to judge everyone just because of how some people act on a keyboard.

 

Grew up in Germany, lived in the US for 20 years(lived/worked in 7 states) and now am in Asia with zero chance I'd ever step foot back in the US. So when it comes to knowing how people are in the US, I know enough to never even THINK of going back there, no offense, it's not your fault, but the fault of many selfish and zero-empathy people.

[Newyankalt]

Plenty of people gear up before attempting HMs. Some HM's require far diff gear than others, vastly different from BT to BH in what's needed gear wise. The movies are included in all versions for a reason, so that those that haven't seen them, get to see them. If they don't speak the same language, how do you expect them to go with the "majority"? btw which is a false point because as it is, the HM FP's have the movies included for PAYING CUSTOMERS to enjoy at their leisure.

 

You don't need to be taking up people's time in hard modes... Tactical and Solos are the best way to see the story. I am willing to watch scenes in those flash points but hard modes should just always be fast and skipped.

 

I have no problem leaving a group on some of the longer flash points that don't space bar or just kick the one person who isn't skipping if the other 3 are.

[peter_plankskull]

Yes, believe it or not, outside America people have much more empathy.

 

I retract my earlier comment about you being a good poster. Honestly its one thing to say it once by accident, but to say it THREE TIMES when specifically told not to generalize over the internet by the actions of the few is almost willing to make me put you on ignore.

 

Since when does nationality matter anyway when it comes to emotions... actions... etc. etc.

 

and this

 

You're really got to stop thinking so narrowly, it's honestly amazing but at the same time sad how narrow your train of thought is.

 

and this

 

. You do not respect new players or their gaming background or lack thereof.

and this

I'm not at all surprised to hear you sprout such SELFISH nonsense, not one bit, you've done all but say this very thing until now. But congrats on finally admitting it. You really make me sick.

Edited April 9, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[LordGermanicuss]

That's a good point, there's no reason for people who don't speak any English to be joining groups where communication may be required. PVP/ Raids. They should at least know the basics or not play at all.

 

"Yeah, those players that have spent far more % of their income on their account than you have have no right to continue to play the game just because their servers were shut down"......just wow.

[LordGermanicuss]

On North American servers English is pretty much the official language, on Europeans servers it's more diverse but you rarely see people not speaking English on Harbinger for example.

 

Either way the servers and the core of the game is offered in English/ French/ German so you should at least know the basics of one of those languages and be on the appropriate server if you're going to queue for any type of group content.

 

"Pretty much" really says it all. Don't forget to tell all your musicians that go on world tours that there's not much point in it(despite that they make millions doing so) since the people there don't speak nor understand English, never mind that they enjoy the sights and sounds.

[JennyFlynn]

Learning basic English doesn't require actual studies and education, not necessarily anyways. The internet (you know, that same source that allows them to access this website and actively sign up with an account, download the game, read and accept the ToS etc.) is a fountain of knowledge. You can pick up BASIC English by simply browsing articles of whichever kind, watch an instructional/educational video on YouTube, watch Netflix with English subs on to slowly familiarize yourself. You're acting as if these APAC people are both too poor and too dumb and frankly, if I were one of them, I'd feel insulted. They don't need our coddling. They may be here due to a lack of alternatives but that doesn't mean we ought to cater to their every whim because "i no speek enlish!". No matter how you twist and turn it with "these poor APAC players" excuses, consideration is a TWO WAY street, it shouldn't have to come from just one side.

[LordGermanicuss]

Yeah? Unless your first language is French or German, those English servers are the only option for European players, no matter their first language. You show me ten APAC players that don't speak English and I'll show you ten Russian players that don't speak English. You blame Americans for only looking at things from the American perspective, while only looking at things from an APAC player's perspective. A bit hypocritical, isn't it?

 

Actually, Europe still has it's own dedicated servers, APAC no longer does, quite the false analogy, but why let facts get in the way of an agenda right? I was an APAC player, but I do speak English, but of everyone I know that came over, I'm the only one that speaks english well enough to come here and talk about it.

[LordGermanicuss]

You say the people who will kick them are selfish however I'd say it's justified to kick someone in many circumstances who isn't communicating with the group at all... Not able to understand tactics or give calls in PVP.

 

You're saying that as if they have a choice in the matter, our/their servers were closed despite what many of us had/have invested in the game for our enjoyment. It was come here or choose another game. Do you REALLY want paying players to leave REALLY???? FYI, most of the foreign servers were PVE, you don't have to "worry" about them screwing up your "pvp" matches, and most went to Harbinger, a pvE server, so if you're worried about your pvp there, then why are you there in the first place. Hiding from real pvp'ers? Yeah.....like many. Not surprised.

[Aeristash]

While I understand those points, the reverse is also worth considering...

 

Using vets to carry you thought content you're not ready for and disregarding their enjoyment factor isn't nice in the least.

 

I completely agree with this in terms of ops and hard mode flashpoints. Those are clear instances where a new players has no business and will only bring down the group & activity enjoyment. However in regards to story and tactical flashpoints, if a vet is just doing speed runs, that's not enjoyment, that's a chore they're trying to finish. Asking someone to speed run their first time in an instance so you can get your daily quota done is a douche move on the moral low road. One should make an effort to let the new person enjoy the flashpoint at least once that they themselves have done dozens of times over. They enjoyed it at one point in time with a group that didn't rush them, so why not give someone else that same liberty?

 

Over Christmas I gave FF 14 a try. That game isn't new, so when I was chatting asking for help, I never took offense when someone called me a noob or said "everyone knows that dude". Those comments are clearly coming from people who know the game back to front and I don't take them personally.

 

If I'm joining people in stuff and they say "we've all done this before", then I'll follow their lead. I'm new, they aren't, I respect that I'm stepping into their existing playground.

 

While I completely agree that a new player should be mindful of and show respect to their seniors, I don't believe that gives said seniors a free pass to make snide, belittling and outright disrespectful comments to new players on the grounds of that seniority. While I'm sure no one expects a Jedi master to bow their head low in respect of a greenhorn padawan just learning the ropes, there is an expected level of cordial respect to be given to anyone that has not yet caused you offense. Calling someone a noob or belittling them just because they're ignorant of a subject you were once ignorant of yourself is immature and shows a lacking intellect that they can't comprehend why the question is being asked to begin with. As if we're born into the world with first hand knowledge of how all various game mechanics operate. To the guy who said "Everybody knows that, dude.", I would've responded "Well obviously everybody doesn't, seeing as I as a member of your egregious generalization am still knowledge on the matter".

 

 

 

 

Regarding the "community" aspect, what is the upside to building that when there isn't anything to do with it? If we were getting new group content on a semi-regular basis, I'd be totally on board with you. When is the last FlashPoint that launched? The last operation? The last GSF map? Other than the new WZ, the one before that?

 

KotFE has made the situation worse. It wasn't perfect to start with, but at least when SoR was new, people were more understanding of "hey, this is new content". Now SoR is almost 1.5 years old, if you haven't run it yet, fair enough, but you should respect that lots of people have and don't want to slow down for the new person.

 

I suppose it's relatively different for everyone but I for one enjoy the social aspect of showing struggling players the ropes and helping them understand the ins & outs of the game and building stronger ties as I do. With conquest, ops & fps I never get bored running them with my new & old guildies in game and planning our next excursions. For me, the more people, the bigger the social circle, the more enjoyable the game.

 

Overall, this has largely become a solo game, outside of the old FP/WZ/GSF/Ops. Grouping doesn't matter for anything else (world bosses I guess would be the exception).

 

This is probably why I haven't played in 2 weeks and haven't done anything past Chapter X. I just don't have a reason to care anymore.

 

It was advertised to be this way before launch and this is how it should be. The thing with forced group content outside of tacticals, ops, wz, ect is that you're relegated to put up with the attitude of anyone who deigns to help you. Those hotheads yelling space and prodding people like cattle to get moving? They're the reason story content is 100% soloable. Nobody wants to put up with their egotistical self-important attitudes. Here's to hoping you find your raison d'être again soon.

[Seireeni]

Actually, Europe still has it's own dedicated servers, APAC no longer does, quite the false analogy, but why let facts get in the way of an agenda right? I was an APAC player, but I do speak English, but of everyone I know that came over, I'm the only one that speaks english well enough to come here and talk about it.

 

Why does it matter if the English server is located in Europe or US? Apart from having a better ping, that person who only speaks in example Russian in European English server is facing the same language barrier as an APAC player who only speaks in example Chinese in North American English server. Exactly. The. Same. Language. Barrier.

And exactly which agenda am I driving here? It just annoys me when people throw ad hominems based on something others do, while doing the same thing themselves.

[LordGermanicuss]

You don't need to be taking up people's time in hard modes... Tactical and Solos are the best way to see the story. I am willing to watch scenes in those flash points but hard modes should just always be fast and skipped.

 

I have no problem leaving a group on some of the longer flash points that don't space bar or just kick the one person who isn't skipping if the other 3 are.

 

You see, that's what you selfish people don't understand, it's not YOUR TIME, the FP queue when queuing random INCLUDES THE MOVIES. Do what you want to change that or grow up and get over it. When other PAY to play the game, the movies may or may not be part of it for them, you do NOT get to decide that for them. You do NOT get to decide what they queue for, nor their actions inside the FP unless they are undergeared or underskilled.

 

I'm not surprised that you "dont' have a problem kicking someone" that's a very typical american anti-social personality thing to do, a very basement-disorder thing to do. It's your way or the highway. Nevermind that others are paying to help keep your game going, it's ALL about YOU and your enjoyment. Please just leave, many people have lvl 50 comps that can EASILY replace your whether you're tank or heals a lvl 50 comp can replace you no problem.

[JennyFlynn]

Judging by your other posts in which you describe your past living situation and where you live now, I also believe this debate is absolutely futile no matter what any of us say. You're on this "Poor APAC players" crusade while casting judgment over Americans in general, even the ones offering sensible and considerate comments so there's really no point. Edited April 9, 2016 by JennyFlynn

[LordGermanicuss]

I retract my earlier comment about you being a good poster. Honestly its one thing to say it once by accident, but to say it THREE TIMES when specifically told not to generalize over the internet by the actions of the few is almost willing to make me put you on ignore.

 

Since when does nationality matter anyway when it comes to emotions... actions... etc. etc.

 

and this

 

 

 

and this

 

 

and this

 

Well if the shoe fits.....it's your own....

 

As for " generalize over the internet by the actions of the few" How many countries have you bombed in the last 10 years? More than all other countries combined, nuff said. Yet you keep electing them. Sadly, it's NOT the few.

[peter_plankskull]

Judging by your other posts in which you describe your past living situation and where you live now, I also believe this debate is absolutely futile no matter what any of us say. You're on this "Poor APAC players" crusade while casting judgment over Americans in general, even the ones offering sensible and considerate comments so there's really no point.

 

This.

 

TX rustled his jimmies real bad. One of the worst forum meltdowns I have ever seen, and I visit the battle log forums.

 

EDIT-

 

Well if the shoe fits.....it's your own....

 

As for " generalize over the internet by the actions of the few" How many countries have you bombed in the last 10 years? More than all other countries combined, nuff said. Yet you keep electing them. Sadly, it's NOT the few.

 

Never mind you're hypocritical statements I quoted and simply cherry pick whatever suits you agenda or anything.

 

Blaming the actions for the few or the majority then, is simply wrong. Nationality has no matter in how a person acts, thinks, or communicates, it involves a bunch of other psychological stuff of how they were raised.

 

It's honestly like saying All Germans were evil in world war two when it was the acts of others to ruin there reputation. I would go in more depth, but you are seriously derailing the thread and bringing in political issues with you snide remarks to countries which will probably resort in nothing constructive or a thread locking.

Edited April 9, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[Aeristash]

Yes, believe it or not, outside America people have much more empathy.

 

I'm American and I'm very empathetic to the needs & short comings of non native speakers in my native environment, just as most have been when I'm in theirs. Going on a disrespectful whole scale nationalistic tangent about an entire culture because you came across some bad apples is neither nice nor appropriate. No nation works under a hive mind personality, there are good & bad everywhere in the world. You say Americans are less empathetic, but you're not being very empathetic to that fact yourself.

[JennyFlynn]

Judging by your other posts in which you describe your past living situation and where you live now, I also believe this debate is absolutely futile no matter what any of us say. You're on this "Poor APAC players" crusade while casting judgment over Americans in general, even the ones offering sensible and considerate comments so there's really no point.

 

 

Thank you for proving my point with your comment below.

Well if the shoe fits.....it's your own....

 

As for " generalize over the internet by the actions of the few" How many countries have you bombed in the last 10 years? More than all other countries combined, nuff said. Yet you keep electing them. Sadly, it's NOT the few.

[Aeristash]

Well if the shoe fits.....it's your own....

 

As for " generalize over the internet by the actions of the few" How many countries have you bombed in the last 10 years? More than all other countries combined, nuff said. Yet you keep electing them. Sadly, it's NOT the few.

 

>_> Oh boy. Here we go.

[LordGermanicuss]

Learning basic English doesn't require actual studies and education, not necessarily anyways. The internet (you know, that same source that allows them to access this website and actively sign up with an account, download the game, read and accept the ToS etc.) is a fountain of knowledge. You can pick up BASIC English by simply browsing articles of whichever kind, watch an instructional/educational video on YouTube, watch Netflix with English subs on to slowly familiarize yourself. You're acting as if these APAC people are both too poor and too dumb and frankly, if I were one of them, I'd feel insulted. They don't need our coddling. They may be here due to a lack of alternatives but that doesn't mean we ought to cater to their every whim because "i no speek enlish!". No matter how you twist and turn it with "these poor APAC players" excuses, consideration is a TWO WAY street, it shouldn't have to come from just one side.

 

When your native language doesn't use the same alphabet, then maybe you'd understand. You can't even imagine using a COMPLETELY different alphabet, you're used to latin derived langs that use pretty much the same 26 letter alphabet. Imagine having 32 consonants and 26 vowels, not one looking ANYTHING like Latin. I respect what your opinion, but is COMPLETELY wrong. It is NOT easy at all for Asian speakers to learn the english language, just like it is very hard for english speakers to learn a Tonal Language. MANY try, but most fail and give up. MY WIFE is studying English, is 3rd YEAR, NEVER failed and still cannot understand what people are saying in gen chat or in chat in an fp. Why? bc we say things like "sb plz" etc that no non native speaker is going to understand. She, like our other Thai friends that play the game WANT to learn english, but when english speakers themselves JACK IT UP so much, how are they to learn anything meaningful? I cannot count the number of times ppl in gen chat do not know you're from your yet she knows it perfectly. If you say something like sb plz or zomg sb she will have no clue. So I'm sorry, respectfully, but you do not know what you're talking about when it comes to APAC players or their level of understanding or desire to understand or what level of help is acceptable to us.